Democrats are walking contradictions: Their base is their thorn,

[rainy]

in the world of profit and corruption. We all know they want the corporate money. To get it they have to pass laws that favor corporations. Their loyal base, the progressives, can't win with Democrats because the Dems have to disavow them. The repubs have no problem feeding their base because they support greed and selfishness. It is easy to keep them satisfied as you rape the national treasure and cater to Corporations.

The dems on the other hand have nothing to offer their base that will win them big bucks. And, sadly that is what it is all about.

[bloom]

1. I don't think all Republicans

are about greed and selfishness.

I think the Republican politicians are great at sugar-coating and lying. Listen to them talk about something with their Oh-so-suave voice - trying to make everything sound so reasonable. If you didn't know they were lying you might believe them.

[apnu]

7. I think they are all about greed and selfishness

I'm the only non-Republican in my office. I've talked to each and every one in turn about all things that interest Republicans and Democrats. And I tell you with out a shred of doubt in my mind. These guys would pimp their wives if it meant 5 extra bucks in their pockets. And I live in a comfortable "blue" state.

(you know what they are passing around the office right now? Check this out and have a bucket ready: http://video.mpegnation.com/a001479716638032605111933458.html -- Warning! racist film contained in that link)

My meter stick for these people? Open Source Software. Talk about Open Source, and you'll instantly find out who (or what) you are talking to.

The other non-work Republicans I know are all selfish to the bone. Not one (including most of my family and in-laws) gives a rat's ass about anybody but themselves. Luckily, I have several good friends who don't have that problem.

I have not heard one reasonable argument from any Republican (pol or civie) since 2000 when McCain was proved to be the bitch that he is.

The fact is the GOP supporter is one of two types of people: A selfish moron, or a greedy and clever weasel. I have never met a Republican that can't be classified in one of those two categories.

[lebkuchen]

2. It doesn't stop with the dems

Try the EU.

Sure, most didn't send troops, but they offered air space and ports to send forth war machines.

It's all about money. Has nothing to do with ethics.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

3. C'mon, cheer up. The Republicans have to "feed" the Rapturist Right

which, in turn, alienates the business community. If Frist ends the filibuster for 10 wingnut judges, the Senate business grinds to a crawl...this will piss off more than a few Wall Street types. The Republicans are left with ONLY the wingnut base in 06/08...can you say "Democratic landslide"?!?!?!

[frankly_fedup2]

4. What makes you believe that the Dems don't get any corporate

money? As far as getting "contributions" all politicians have sold their souls to some extent.

Capitalism is the first God they pray to. The difference is the Republicans want everyone to believe that they pray to the Christian God. The Republicans have used Bush and his so-called "Christian" beliefs to further their agenda. They are just as evil as he is as they all privately worship at the alter of blood, oil, and money.

Publicly they invoke and have used God to make them appear superior to humanity and the American People, (much like "Hitler's Pope Pius"), but behind the closed doors where they keep the Democrats out and make up their own rules, God is neither prayed to, nor acknowledged.

[MADem]

14. That is "our" fault

We should fully fund elections, but we don't. We should insist upon debates, meaningful debates, paid for by and for the people.

We should get RID of this attitude that the one who can buy the most airtime, and feed us fucking commercials with puppies and old people and babies, and waving flags and vaseline on the lens has the best ideas. And we ought to have criminal penalties for misrepresentation in ads.

As long as we look at it as a contact sport, instead of a deeply serious exercise in determining the future of our nation and future generations, we are gonna continue to get the fucked-up government we've, in essence, asked for.

[applegrove]

5. There are corporations and then there are corporations. Shades

of grey is how we will win. And yes, some democrats need to put away Utopias and understand that the USA will not be nearly as wealthy as before and we need to be in the emerging markets (where middle classes will bloom) to be a part of the wealth created and business done in this century. For that we need corporations.

But as to the norms corporations should follow all over the world? That is open for discussion.

[ComerPerro]

6. The Daily Show had a great piece highlighting this last summer

At the Dem Convention.

They had a Democratic "focus" group, and each person in the room had a different agenda that they wanted dealt with right away.

So, there is the problem you mentioned, and add to that the fact that the Dems are such a big tent that we can't keep all of our base happy at once.

[B0S0X87]

10. That was a great one

Colbert: Black guy, do you have a problem with gay marriage?

Black Guy: No, I do not.

Colbert: Kiss the gay guy.

[wyldwolf]

8. here we go again

The Democratic base is NOT anti-corporate progressives.

Most rank and file dems have no idea about the people on the left who abhor corporations.

[rainy]

9. Who are the Democratic base? What do they want and care

about?

[wyldwolf]

11. the base of the party...

...are working class men and women of differing races and levels of "liberalness." Many are regular church goers. Many shop at Wal-mart.

Rank and file Democrats are not one issue voters. Our base - our most reliable voting block - are only aware of corporate malfeasance from news reports about Enron.

Who is the "base?"

Democrats get most of the homosexual vote.

Democrats still get most of the black vote - yet more blacks than whites DISAGREE with gay marriage (a Pew research survey found 43% of African Americans didn't rank gay marriage an important issue with 60% opposing it.) African Americans also more likely to oppose abortion according to an ABC news poll.

Blue collar union workers - often very religious, often anti-abortion.

Women, most concerned with health care, education, their children, jobs and the economy.

See, the base is a hodgepodge of beliefs that conflict with the "progressive" mindset of Democratic Underground so often floated here as the base. Parta of the base are religious. Parts are anti-abortion and pro-gun rights. Parts are anti-gay marriage. Yet the base consists in part of women and gays.

If the base was "anti-corporate progressives," corporations would not be flourishing as they are in blue states. With the country pretty evenly split, I don't believe only Republicans are doing business with corporations.

I'll refer you to a piece by Will Pitt. He was talking more to the anti-war crowd on DU, but the lesson is the same:

Do you think you are part of the Democratic base?

I hear a lot of stuff on DU about anti-war left-wing types being the base, and Kerry better not piss us off, or Kerry better court us, or Kerry has already pissed us off, so screw you guys, I'm going home.

I hate to break it to you, but anti-war left-wing types are not the base of the Democratic party.

Union members are the base of the party, particularly in the northeast and Pacific northwest. Women are the base of the party, particularly in the northeast, far west, and portions of the midwest. African Americans are the base of the party all across the country.

Anti-war left-wing types are the single most unreliable voter group in America. Unless you are simon-pure, you are unworthy of support from that group. As no politician in 21st Century America (with a snowball's chance of winning a national election) is simon-pure, they are not likely to bust their asses to get anti-war left-wing support.

Anti-war left-wing support, by the way, is buried by the aforementioned real base. Yes, anti-war left-wing support can swing an election, but because of the aforementioned unreliability problem - anti-war left-wing voters will bolt at the first sign of impurity, even in a tight race (See: 2000) - it is too often a hopeless exercise to try and court that group with any real vigor. The real base outnumbers anti-war left-wing types 10-1. That's where the focus goes.

So all you anti-war left-wing folks should probably stop referring to yourselves as the base of the Democratic party. Don't feel bad; I'm a anti-war left-wing type, too, and so I'm out of the fun as well. We were close to being the base, but blew up in 1968 because we couldn't stand it anymore. The party looked at us and said, "OOOOkay...let's look elsewhere."

I might also refer you to a very interesting poll that compared opinions of Dean supporters and that of rank and file Democrats:

Looking at the party's future, Dean activists voice strong sentiment for the Democrats to move to the left. Two-thirds (67%) want the Democratic Party to reflect more progressive or liberal positions, while just 13% would prefer a shift to more centrist positions.

Only about one-in-ten (11%) support the more radical approach of letting the Democratic Party die off and be replaced by an entirely new political party. But maintaining the status quo also is seen as unacceptable; just 8% of Dean activists want the party to remain more or less the same.

These attitudes contrast sharply with the opinions of both Democratic officials and rank-and-file Democrats. A Gallup poll of Democratic National Committee members (in February 2005) showed that, by more than two-to-one (52%-23%) the DNC members want the party to become more moderate, rather than more liberal. That view is shared by Democrats nationally; in a January survey, Gallup found that 59% of Democrats wanted the party to take a more moderate course.

Trying to pin the base down as anti-corporate (or anti-war) progressives isn't supported by fact.

[bread_and_roses]

12. The question is what do we "anti-war liberal" types have in common with

"the base" of women, labor, and African Americans, whether the individuals in those groups call themselves "moderates" or not?" (And I maintain that in the current debasement of the political language, it is meaningless to ask people to define themselves by the terms "liberal" or "centrist" or "moderate." "Liberal" has been too demonetized, while the others are completely meaningless.)

What most of us "anti-war" left have in common with that "base" is supporting protections for workers, consumers, the environment, the sick, and even civil liberties (when framed right, a la Shiavo). "Progressive" positions on the environment, wages, health care are all repeatedly supported in polls. But since Democrats repeatedly sell out everyone but their Corporate Masters on these issues too, it is damn near impossible to mobilize any force in the "base" for Democrats. Kerry's support was largely rooted in the fear and loathing of the illegitimate puppet and his handlers, not any faith in Kerry.

I do political work around local/State elections much of the year; I go door to door, I make phone calls, etc. The people I am talking to are the Democratic "base" and Independents. Very few have any faith that a Democrat in office will make any significant difference to them on pocketbook issues. And that situation will obtain until the Ds stop selling us out on those issues, as in the Bankruptcy Bill, a perfect example.

[rainy]

15. Thanks, makes one think; corporate power must be changed or the

people will never have a legitimate place with either party. I'll vote green whenever I can as they are true democrats.

[flpoljunkie]

17. Excellent point. Dems missed major opportunity to distinguish themselves

from the Rethugs when the Senate enabled the passage of the one-sided bankruptcy bill--already signed into law by Dubya and goes into effect sometime in October.

We need to push the Democrats to do something about the usurious interests rates and late fee gouging by the predatory banks and credit card companies--as well as, end the asset protection trusts still available to the wealthy in five states.

I understand that are already several bills in the hopper to amend the bankruptcy bill. Let's press for their passage.

[rainy]

13. Great reply, thanks, this make lots of sense.

[Clark2008]

16. For the most part, this is true - but I do think that the info on the

evils of Wal-mart is spreading.

I have met tons of people - mostly Dems - who will no longer shop there because of a variety of reasons: the low-pay which, in effect, is a middle-class tax to support the Wal-mart workers who can't afford health care and food on their low pay, the tax breaks that they're having to pay for, and, for a goodly number of women I know, the sexual discrimination keeps them from shopping there.

The fact that people are turning away from Wal-mart is evidenced by the company's need to produce that series of PR commercials. They must have seen a drop-off or they wouldn't be doing that.

However, if they'd just spend more money paying and caring for their workers instead of on PR campaigns, I think they'd get more mileage. Word-of-mouth is STILL more effective than slick ad campaigns.

[CWebster]

18. Wow, I think I hear the chorus singing the Enron theme song too!

nt

[CWebster]

19. That about says it

See any firebrand populists types ready to storm the doors?

See what they did to Dean. Time will tell if he has been thoroughly neutered into representing their party, while "You have the power" retreats into the background.