Howard Dean = Indie Band That Made It Big (LONG)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

My impression is that some folks who really liked Dean during the primaries have become rather disillusioned with him after becoming DNC Chair. It reminds me of the old band line, "I liked Dean BEFORE he was cool." Or, even worse, "I liked Dean BEFORE he sold out."

As someone who initially liked Dean a lot, then couldn't stand him, and now loves him again, my own personal perception is that Dean himself hasn't changed much. Rather, it was my own perception that had changed, each time.

At first I saw him as an upstart man of the people who was trying to run as an outsider. I thought he was plucky and daring, and had a lot of energy and charisma. And I liked how, even then, he would unhesitatingly tell it like it is, or at least how he saw it.

Then as the campaign wore on, I started to feel that he had expressed some inconsistent positions for the sake of what was expedient. I began to think that maybe it was all just an act. I began looking at Kerry again, and then hoping hoping hoping that Clark would jump in. When he did, I was ecstatic.

Politics being what it is, the front-runner at the time (Dean) and the perceived threat (Clark) began to go at each other, as did many of their respective supporters. Unsurprisingly, this difficult environment continued to color my perceptions of Dean, invariably negatively. I decided he was using his grassroots support cynically and opportunistically, and that he was "just another politician" like anyone else.

After the primaries were over like a flash in the pan, I became impressed again with Dean's loyalty to the party, and how he really stepped up for Kerry. I laughed at the self-deprecating humor in his Yahoo Local ad, and I loved his book.

Then I read a telling interview with Dean -- and I wish I had it handy -- which utterly convinced me that he had NEVER been acting, that he had NEVER used his grassroots support cynically or opportunistically, that some of the negative things that I had perceived during the primaries was most likely the result of the inevitable crossed wires that happen during any campaign, especially one where the candidate and the campaign manager are often on different wavelengths.

That's when I realized I had been wrong about Dean. He wasn't the one who had changed; it was only my perceptions that had changed.

I now find Howard Dean to be a remarkably consistent person. For example, his position on the war has been rock-solid in terms of its consistency. He had always been an outspoken critic of the war, and he never would have voted to authorize the war and he certainly never would have invaded Iraq. But he has always taken the position that we must finish the incompetent job that Bush so immorally started. He has never taken the position that we need to pull out our troops immediately, because doing so would cause utter chaos and complete the abdication of personal responsibility that so elegantly symbolizes the Republicans. Howard Dean cares about the Iraqi people, and he cares about the standing of the United States in the international community. His eloquent comments just the other day in Australia bear strong testimony to this fact.

So I suppose I have to wonder why a sizable contingent on the left is now taking Dean to task, when they once viewed him as their bannerman against the war. My own personal theory is that back during the primaries, Dean represented the outsider, which is exactly how many on the left feel, so very often. They could relate to Dean. Dean was the cool indie band, the one who sang songs with passion and fire and no one was going to shut him up. His lyrics were powerful, but his melodies were even more powerful, so maybe some folks didn't listen to the lyrics as carefully as they could have. If they had, they would have heard the exact same words he's using today.

And today he's no longer the symbol of the outsider. He's the ultimate symbol of the insider: the Chair of the DNC. The outsiders on the left who once supported him have become wary of him, because he no longer represents the same thing to those outsiders. This is despite the fact that Dean ran for DNC Chair on a theme of changing the system, with an explicit message of being an outsider, and with the support of so many grassroots outsiders who had never had a voice in the arcane processes of the Democratic National Convention.

Now we have one. Howard Dean is our voice, our representative, at the DNC. We have succeeded in our quest with a margin of victory so overwhelming it still takes my breath away. And now that we got what we wanted, it kills me to think that we might be sabotaging ourselves, just because perceptions may have changed.

Howard Dean hasn't changed. The lyrics are still the same, if you listen closely enough. The melodies are still passionate and powerful, and the singer will still speak truth to power. The only thing that's changed is the method of delivery. Whereas Dean was once selling CDs out of the trunk of his car, now he has a big label behind him, with slick jewel cases and cover art and top notch production values.

We should be glad that he now has the platform to reach an even broader audience, because people who are exposed to his music will be richer for it. We shouldn't look at him like a sell-out just because he's made it to the top on his own merit and the strength of his support. We shouldn't feel that just because he's no longer our little secret, he has somehow forgotten about the fans who catapulted him to fame and glory in the first place.

And most importantly, his music is still amazing. All you have to do is listen to the lyrics, and you'll know it.

DTH

[JDPriestly]

1. It's not Dean that's changing,

it's the Democratic Party. At least, that is how it seemed at the recent California Democratic Convention, which was attended by many DFA members. Deaniacs now have the opportunity to lead the Party.

This is a big step. Complaining about the status quo, talking about change and campaigning against the odds are easy -- actually acting and changing things after you've won is the real test. Dean has won the top leadership position in the Party and is determined to pass that test. Will his supporters pass it with him? Only time will tell.

[Carolab]

2. Kicking it so others can read and "get it".

I am sick of this. People either didn't get what Dean was saying in the first place, or as this piece asserts their perceptions changed, but DEAN didn't.

[Melodybe]

3. This consistant Dean lover thanks you for your support

I love that man, he is the reason I got involved, he was the reason I came here.

[RogueTrooper]

4. Excellent post DTH

:thumbsup:

[NYCGirl]

5. Wonderful post! Recommended. NT

[LoZoccolo]

6. A lot of further-lefties co-opted his campaign.

I was part of the Dean campaign, and I remember that after a while it seemed like a lot of people took to the widespread volunteerism that was one of the marks of his campaign, but then just started doing what they wanted with his campaign and represented Dean as they may have wanted him.

I saw this as a big problem, actually, and one that I thought at the time might really shipwreck him. I think I may be right in that. A lot of people were complaining that Dean didn't really have a message outside of complaining about Bush*, but I think he did; it just may have been that a huge contingent of people who claimed to represent him didn't project it or weren't consistent or trained to project it. It would make sense that a lot of people who really didn't like Bush* saw the openness of the Dean campaign as a way to get back at Bush* and glommed onto it, and then it became theirs. This may have hurt him in Iowa too; I've heard from more than one place that the volunteers that went down there might have hurt him.

Of course I'll probably hear that the volunteers were all Rove plants or that anything that brought Dean down must be the DLC's fault fault, but for the people who'd like to improve the way a campaign of widespread volunteerism works, there's my opinion.

[NYCGirl]

7. A lot of good points, LoZoccolo. NT

[Eloriel]

46. No, actually, it's pretty much all nonsense

I was part of the Dean campaign,

In exactly what capacity, I'd like to know.

and I remember that after a while it seemed like a lot of people took to the widespread volunteerism that was one of the marks of his campaign, but then just started doing what they wanted with his campaign and represented Dean as they may have wanted him.

I saw this as a big problem, actually, and one that I thought at the time might really shipwreck him. I think I may be right in that.

Noooo, and you're the only one I've ever heard who thinks that. Dean and Trippi are still 100% in favor of exactly what they did -- let go of the control of the campaign in favor of EMPOWERING every day people to get involved and make things happen (rather than waiting on direction or permission from on high).

Furthermore, I heard NO instances of any cases where Dean or his positions were misrepresented because of all the empowered volunteerism.

Finally, you make it sound like the ONLY or perhaps primary way for voters and potential voters to learn about a candidate is through his volunteers. That may be a first contact, but there are ample opportunities during a campaign for any potential voter to get the goods straight from the horse's mouth and that's PRECISELY what they should do.

A lot of people were complaining that Dean didn't really have a message outside of complaining about Bush*, but I think he did;

and I KNOW he did. How could you be "a part of the Dean campaign" and not know all about his incredible message? (Something doesn't make sense to me here.)

AND, I'd point out that this comment of yours was a rightwing GOP talking point. Shame on you for repeating it as if it had ANY validity -- it didn't then, it doesn't now.

it just may have been that a huge contingent of people who claimed to represent him didn't project it or weren't consistent or trained to project it. It would make sense that a lot of people who really didn't like Bush* saw the openness of the Dean campaign as a way to get back at Bush* and glommed onto it, and then it became theirs.

Nonsensical blather, all of it.

This may have hurt him in Iowa too; I've heard from more than one place that the volunteers that went down there might have hurt him.

There WAS some discussion of this -- but there was so much that went on in Iowa, some of it the dirty tricks of his fine opponents (including Kerry's campaign) that this is not that big a deal in the final analysis. One thing is they should've been better trained, esp. for the caucus itself. And so forth.

Of course I'll probably hear that the volunteers were all Rove plants or that anything that brought Dean down must be the DLC's fault fault,

More utter garbage.

but for the people who'd like to improve the way a campaign of widespread volunteerism works, there's my opinion.

And worth exactly what we paid for it. Maybe less.

[NYCGirl]

50. Since I had nothing to do with Dean's campaign — I don't know what

happened there.

Were you addressing this to me, Eloriel?

[CWebster]

8. The issues come before

the cult of personality.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

9. His Positions on the Issues Are the Same

Were you unaware of Dean's position on the war during the primaries, or do you believe he should have changed his position once he became DNC Chair?

DTH

[CWebster]

12. Yes, I know what his positions were/are.

Although Dean is defended by the claim that his position hasn't changed, the questions is, have the circumstances on the ground in Iraq changed? If the Occupation is not "making progress" as Bush claims, then why is Dean hoping for Bush's successful Occupation? That seems to be denying the escalating horror. But, then we are informed that Dean isn't responsible for setting policy, so in that case it doesn't matter what he says--any question of his consistancy is moot if he is just following orders. Consistancy was never the issue anyway, that was just a strawman to deflect off the main point- that as affairs in Iraq continue to deteriorate, supporting the Occupation is called into question. I don't care what he said years ago. What does he say now? That an illegitimate cause for Invasion is now a legitimate Occupation?

The suggestion that the motivation to "fix" Iraq is honorable, but it really isn't about what most Iraqis want, it is some fantasy we have that we can fix what we destroyed although we, in the meantime, continue to destroy it. The Occupation is the problem. There is this underlying racist superiority suggesting that we care about these poor little brown people who we harmed, but if us big strong good white people leave, everything will fall apart because us big strong good white people can handle situations these poor stupid ignorant brown people are incapable of doing by themselves. Only us big strong right smart white people who attacked and ruined their country can be trusted to establish a legitimaqe government, although we can't even challenge our own criminal junta.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

13. I Think There's Quite a Bit of Merit In Some of Your Points

Absolutely, both the invasion and the occupation carry with it inevitable racist undertones. And I agree that as situations on the ground change, we need to be aware of them and adapt as much as possible.

That said, based on everything I've read and comments from Democrats I trust, it does not appear that the Iraqis are ready to take charge of their own security on the massive scale necessary to suppress the violence, racist undertones aside. We're not even able to deal with it at our current troop numbers, and although I agree some violence would abate if we left, the marginal decrease would not make up for the loss of troops, IMO. The Shi'ite/Sunni/Kurd problems would only take the place of anti-Americanism.

I also don't believe the situation now is sufficiently deteriorated from the election season to merit a change in position as drastic as you appear to be suggesting. It's still bad, sure. But it's not substantially worse than before.

DTH

[CWebster]

15. How many casualities yesterday? Over 50?

by 6 this morning, the BBC reported another 25. Seems like more than the 1 or 2 a day we saw for months. But maybe you are just counting US casualties?

Who are the "Insurgents"? And what is Iraqi "security" anyway? Does anyone ever ask? Maybe the "Insurgents" are ordinary Iraqis fighting for their country? Maybe "Security" is the Occupier's proxy army to keep them down? To turn on their own people like Saddam did?

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

18. Do You Really Think Iraqi-on-Iraqi Violence Will Abate If We Leave?

I think the absolute opposite is true.

I don't know who the "insurgents" are, especially since I don't typically use that word (I didn't use it in the post you're responding to). I'm sure a number of Iraqis are fighting for what they believe in. That doesn't change the fact that a number of Iraqis are also fighting to further sectarian violence, personal power and to bring down whatever they don't like about the existing Iraqi regime. It also doesn't change the fact that a lot of people on all sides are dying.

No offense intended, but I think it is highly naive -- and without reasonable basis -- to believe that a sudden US withdrawal would somehow make everything better.

DTH

[bvar22]

33. And if the US stayed another year, would that..

...situation change?

Another 5 years?

Do we stay there forever?

Do you really believe that we can kill enough Iraqis so that those who remian will look around and say, "Gee, you guys are right?"

The Kurds, Shiite, and Sunni have tribal and racial issues that extend back historically for over ONE THOUSAND YEARS!!!

The American Military Occupation is the PROBLEM, not the Solution!


When you find yourself in a HOLE, QUIT DIGGING!

[janx]

37. I don't think you're telling DTH anything he doesn't know already.

Many of us, including Dean, foresaw this very situation.

[Eloriel]

47. why don't you help us out here, CWebster?

How 'bout a nice definition or description of what is a "cult of personality" followed by a reasoned description of why you consider Dean's campaign and followers part of said "cult of personality"?

I'd like to hear your justification for what I consider an ill-informed smear.

[CWebster]

48. I guess to know it

you would have to see it.

Here is a little observation--If Howard Dean spoke out against the Occupation, your views would be?

[CWebster]

49. It is possible to disagree with Dean--or challenge his take

without going into meltdown and manning the mattresses.

Gees.

[Adelante]

10. DTH, get this published

Nice :thumbsup:

[meganmonkey]

11. I would like to say, as a fellow 'outsider'

that during the primaries, Dean is what drew my interest to the Democratic Party. I had seldom voted for Democrats before 2004. I was registered as an independent, and voted generally for Greens or progressive independents.
During Kerry's campaign up to the election, I was an ABBer all the way. I did learn to love Kerry, and by the time the election rolled around I was convinced I was voting FOR Kerry, not just AGAINST Bush**.
But Dean is the reason I can almost consider myself a Democrat. He helped me understand that the Democrat CITIZENS of this country and I are roughly on the same page, even though most of the Democrat POLITICIANS are not.
I am thrilled that Dean is the party chair. I do not attribute any super powers to him, and I know that I will not always agree with him and the party's platform on every issue. I don't think it is fair to write off a candidate, a leader, or a whole party just because I disagree with a couple issues. There will NEVER be a party I can agree with 100%, unless I start my own. Maybe, some day down the line, we will have a real multi-party system and it could be possible, but I doubt that will happen in my lifetime.

My two cents.

[David Zephyr]

36. A voice of reason.

I liked your "two cents", meganmonkey. Hope to hear more. :)

[meganmonkey]

44. Thanks

:)

[JaneQPublic]

14. One of the best things I've read on DU in a long time.

And I say that, not because it defends and praises my guy, but because it is so well written.

A masterful work, DTH

[Guaranteed]

26. Yup. nt

[mzmolly]

17. Another recommendation for the Greatest Page.

BRAVO! Beautifully said. :toast:

[madfloridian]

19. Good description of a good man and a complicated situation.

:hi:

[janx]

20. DTH, this is misleading. The people who are dissing Dean now

never DID support him, for the most part. I appreciate the other parts of your post though. :hi:

[Adelante]

24. How's that, Janx?

Can you explain? I had the same impression as DTH's. Thanks.

[Guaranteed]

27. I'm not sure that anti-war pacifists were the Dean-supporter types.

Dean is a strong, strong voice in the middle of all of this insanity- but he wasn't a far leftist. He just wasn't. I don't understand how someone could have gotten that impression.

[Adelante]

29. Yeah, that part I get, BGL

I still had the impression a large sector of the anti-war far left were Dean supporters during the primaries. I never saw how it worked, ever, but it is what I thought I was seeing. So this element who are now anti-Dean over his stance on the occupation, are they strictly the Kucinich or Nader or Green lefties who never backed Dean to begin with? It actually makes some better sense, if that's it.

[janx]

32. That's it. That Dean was a "leftist" was a misconception

promulgated by the media and Dean's opponents during last's year's primary campaign. Dean is a centrist and never pretended to be otherwise; he was, however, adamantly against the Iraq war and the Bush administration in general.

Another such misconception was that his supporters were primarily young people.

My suspicion is that most who are crowing about Dean's so-called endorsement of the occupation are those who never liked him much in the first place. He wasn't far-left enough for them. If you look carefully at the links that have been posted in this regard, you'll see what I mean. ;-)

[Adelante]

34. I never thought Dean was a leftist

I thought the leftists thought Dean was a leftist and supported him for that misbegotten reason. But what I'm hearing from you and BGL is this current opposition is from leftists who did not support him. Okay, all clear. Thanks.

[janx]

35. You're very welcome.

And thanks for taking the time to ask. Your thoughts and your curiosity are refreshing.

This Pew Research Center Study shows just how wrong the media were about the Dean campaign:

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=240

[Crunchy Frog]

21. Kicked and reccomended.

:dem:

[Pharaoh]

22. YES! I still love Dean

but the MSM ignores him,

that's why I shut my TV down and got charter pipeline,

can't get no news on the corporate TV............

[melnjones]

23. very nicely stated. recommended. nt

[JNelson6563]

25. Very nice DTH

Eloquent, honest and heartfelt. What a pleasant read, thanks for taking the time to post it.

:toast: Julie

[Clarkie1]

28. The lyrics/melody analogy is very insightful.

Dean did a great service to America and the Democratic Party by engaging so many who felt they had been left out of the process, and empowering them.

However, many who heard that priceless melody weren't listening especially closely to the lyrics, because the emotional energy in the Dean campaign wasn't centered there.

I believe that Dean sincerely believes that we the people can reclaim our democracy, and he believes it to the very core of his being. That is his melody.

Whether you agree or disagree with every detail of every lyric to every song he plays, that is exactly the kind of person we need as the head of the DNC.

[David Zephyr]

30. Dean an Indie? Nah, but this "Indie" likes him a lot.

I very much enjoyed reading your comments. As always you make your case very well, DTH.

Still, Governor Howard Dean was hardly ever an "indie". Dean's personal life story along with his late-blooming political career clearly reveal a man who is far more comfortable with the establishment and status quo than without it. Dean himself even joked during the primaries how much that he "looked like" a Republican. That being said, he won my respect and early support back in 2003 in his bid for our Party's presidential nomination.

As many here know, I enthusiastically supported his seeking the Chair position of the national party when the DLC and even, sadly, Bill Clinton were working overtime to prevent him from taking that role.

I predict that Howard Dean will make the best party chair that the Democrats have had in eons. He certainly has a daunting task before him. Our Democratic Party is a whipped mouse within the House of Representatives, a tortured voice within the U.S. Senate, and of course, is not even an afterthought within the Executive Branch. Can Dean turn things around? If he can't, I doubt anyone else could. I think he can. I really do.

Still, as much as I admire and support the Doctor, Governor and Party Chair, I also know that he was not involved in the anti-war movement in the 1960's and 1970's. He was skiing and enjoying the best America could provide while many of us were going to jail, losing our jobs and jeopardizing our futures for issues that many now dismiss. Howard Dean was not an "indie" with us during those many years when we were fighting against the Viet Nam War, fighting racism, for equal rights for women including reproductive rights, marching and organizing for gay and lesbian civil rights, mobilizing to protect the environment. Howard Dean didn't show up.

That said, by 1976 he did tangentially get involved in Jimmy Carter's election against Gerald Ford and later went on to become a pretty progressive Governor in spite of openly supporting some of the reactionary Reagan / Bush policies of the 1980's and 1990's.

And still, this establishment politician did see that every child in Vermont had health-care, that gay and lesbian Vermonters could have equal partnership rights and more. And, this fellow who "looked like a Republican" dared to speak out against the War in Iraq when few other Democrats would. He won my heart and my mind when he did so. I have no reasons to doubt his intentions now. None.

So, if I may, I would submit to you that the buttoned-down Howard Dean perhaps disturbed the Corporate Record Label because he found himself liking the "indie" music, playing the "indie" music, and god-forbid, hanging out with the "indie" crowd. And through a deft, brilliant move, Dean, ironically wound up exactly where he is now, back in the establishment...and actually running the Record Company, but this time with a host of "indies" signed up with him and challenging a very corrupt, payola-entrenched competitor who doesn't quite know what they are up against anymore.

In any event, I love ya' DoveTurnedHawk! --- DZ

[Eloriel]

52. Great post, but I think you're being a bit unfair to Dean

Still, Governor Howard Dean was hardly ever an "indie". Dean's personal life story along with his late-blooming political career clearly reveal a man who is far more comfortable with the establishment and status quo than without it.

He kinda reminds me of myself on this. In my heart and mind I'm really radical and even revolutionary, in my outward appearance and demeanor and everyday behavior and activities, I'm incredibly mainstream.

Still, as much as I admire and support the Doctor, Governor and Party Chair, I also know that he was not involved in the anti-war movement in the 1960's and 1970's. He was skiing and enjoying the best America could provide while many of us were going to jail, losing our jobs and jeopardizing our futures for issues that many now dismiss. Howard Dean was not an "indie" with us during those many years when we were fighting against the Viet Nam War, fighting racism, for equal rights for women including reproductive rights, marching and organizing for gay and lesbian civil rights, mobilizing to protect the environment. Howard Dean didn't show up.

Hey, by your standards, I didn't show up either.

But you also fail to mention what he DID do. When he went off to college, he specifically asked for African American roommates, and he speaks pretty eloquently (as do they) about the indepth discussions they had -- the roommates were pretty radical -- and how Dean was eager to learn, questioning what was going on, etc. This was an incredibly important learning experience for him.

You also didn't mention that his first job out of school was as a stock broker (initially following in his father's footsteps), but he quit that to go to medical school because he wanted to help people. And he chose to do his residency in a rough and tumble city hospital (clinic?). Along the line he became very, very socially liberal.

Now, I will agree with you that these are not equivalent to getting yourself throw in jail in order to stop a war or marching in Selma, but that wasn't everyone's path, ya know? For someone raised in privilege and wealth, and as a Republican, I think his life has been incredibly purpose-filled and worthwhile, and that he's done ENORMOUS good everywhere he served, and continues to do so.

[eridani]

31. "finish the incompetent job that Bush so immorally started"

Arrrggh!! Cut that the fuck out, willya? On some other thread, someone pointed out that Dean never actually used that expression, and I hope they were right.

The "job" that Bush started was the conquest of an unwilling population for the purpose of using their country as a permanent military base for the control of the region by force. Only an total moral cretin/certifiable sociopath would want to finish that "job." Is that what you'd say to someone you caught ripping off your car stereo? "Breaking into my car was wrong, but please finish the job."

Reasonable people can disagree on exit plans. Some say get out in a couple of months, and others say it may take a few years. It is not at all obvious what specific plans will cause the least damage. We can agree to disagree on that, but the Dem party can't claim to be a real opposition party if it backs the Bush plan of permanent conquest. (Actually, the real problem is not so much that Dems explicitly back it, but rather that they refuse to really look at what Bush is doing and call him on his lies.)

What I've always liked about Dean was his slogan "You have the power," coupled with strongly urging people to just show up in any and all public venues and start participating. If we really do have the power, that ought to include the power to urge all publicly visible Dem leaders to name the Bush policy for what it is. Dialogue on how manage the details of changing it can come later.

[lojasmo]

38. Everything but the musical references is spot on. Thanks. EOM

[jaysunb]

39. I need to have a word with you Buddy !(DTH)

preferably in person.
How dare you put in proper perspective that which the sneaky media and trolls are trying to whip up. LOL

Those of us who ran his campaign here and across the country knew in no uncertain terms that the Gov. was a centrist. The media foisted the illusion that he was some sort of tie-dyed hippie, and as you know, the folks on this side of town are by no means past 11 AM in their politics....me included.

Thanks for adding some truth and light to this "media manufactured" non starter.

A beer at the Good Luck ????

:hi:

[southlandshari]

40. Interesting post, and very enjoyable thread.

Thanks for a very good read, everyone!

:hi:

[unfrigginreal]

41. Good Stuff!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Upfront]

42. Never wavered

I have never doubted Dean period. To my mind he is the best man that has ran for President since Bobby Kennedy, and he remains so today. I would like the war to end today but we need to face the fact that it is now our mess to fix. If it becomes in possible, which I think is happening, Dean will say so. Lets not fight each other over this, but instead lets help this man build the party. Outstanding Dove. Thank you.

[CWebster]

43. It is interesting to note

the shifting alliances in camps. What do you suppose that reflects? Dean's acceptance into the centrist club and subsequent capitulation which Dean loyalists are not yet ready to face?

We shall see.

[Eloriel]

45. I am so glad you got it about Dean

It was always SO frustrating to me to find DUers who, were they fully aware of the REAL Howard Dean, would have loved him. There was SO much garbage, junk and flat out lies circulating about him. And you, my friend, contributed your share -- altho at least now I know (a) that it wasn't intentional deception and (b) you snapped out of it. :D

The only things I ever saw "change" about Dean were a few of his positions which I saw EVOLVE. Dean is NOT a panderer, he DOES reach down to the very core of his being for who he is and what he stands for, and he DOES take new information into account as it becomes available to him. AND he listens to the people, which is SO seductive (politically speaking!). I saw his position on Palestine moderate considerably -- purely by listening to The People talk to him about the subject -- well, I can't know if he had reading material or other stuff that also went into his decisionmaking processes, but I DO know that supporters talked to him about his original position (and posted on his blog about it) and his position softened and became more liberal as the early months wore on. The shift was subtle, but certain for those of us following him. What happened? he simply became more educated and his position evolved as his undersanding of it did. There were a number of other examples as well.

Thanks for a great read.

[jpgray]

51. Which proves fanboyism is much more dangerous directed at politicians

The problem with Dean's statement is very simple. He conflated the president's policy with the road to a peaceful democratic Iraq. They are not the same thing, and by wishing for the success of one when he meant the other he has pissed off a great many people and rightly so. He should have worded it differently, and those who disagreed should have made their grievances known more privately as this wasn't an elaborate or very explicit comment. Dean doesn't need sappy panegyrics or attacks on Kucinich to help him, he needs input on his actions and support for his attempt to change the funding base of the party to the public and away from corporations. I find the behavior of this board to be beyond ridiculous in reaction to Dean's lousy choice of words.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

53. Thanks to Everyone for Their Kind Words and Recommendeds

I really enjoyed writing this!

DTH