*-WH Photo op w/"Snow Flake" babies- Christian "Embryo Adoption" group

[Up2Late]

This was something that I noticed, that most here, who have also stoped listening to or watching the speaches that he makes, when NPR reported on some of what he said today.

* made this speech at the WH surrounded by his (and the RW Fundies) newest ANTI-Stem Cell Research strategy. "Snow Flake" Babies.

A Christian "Frozen Embryo Adoption" group, who SELL the leftover, unwanted frozen embryos to Christian families that want more (mostly white) "snow flake" babies. A link to their website is below:

<http://www.nightlight.org/foundation_description.asp>

[xray s]

1. Selling humans?!?

Good God man....that's SLAVERY!!!!!

[napi21]

2. I thought it was illegal to sell them at all!

I can understand why some couple might want to "adopt" or use those fertalized eggs, and if the donors said OK, I think thats fine. But I thought I heard somewhere that they cannot be sold!

[Up2Late]

28. It might have been illegal, but these last minute, mandatory...

...spending bills often have little laws and pork attached to them that nobody ever reads, I bet this was one of those.

[Inland]

3. Which disguises what actually happens to most embryos: destruction

Bush is caught in the logical conundrum of not minding fertility treatments and not wanting to support all those supposed humans in the vault at the fertility clinic.

So he half assedly forbids federal dollars in research, unless the stem cell lines already existed, proving that its okay to profit from supposed baby killing if the baby killing happened yesterday,

and

promotes the adoption of one hundreth of one percent of these embryos.

What a dick. He talks big and walks small.

[sam sarrha]

4. I got a load i'll donate free to some good looking christian....

[leftchick]

5. Snowflake babies...

and their zombie feakazoid fundie parents. Poor kids will never have a chance.



Janet Mason, of Blacklick, Ohio, holds twin son Snowflakes frozen embryo adoptee Caleb, 11-months, during a stem cell news conference on Capitol Hill, Tuesday, May 24, 2005. Two bills that would loosen restrictions on U.S. government funding for stem cell research takes center stage Tuesday in the House, with disease victims pleading for help and President Bush vowing to veto legislation he says would let science destroy life to save lifes. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)

[XemaSab]

9. Like honestly,

"let science destroy life to save lifes...."

and

"we're not going to use taxpayer money to kill people."

Does this guy even have the rudimentary self-awareness to understand what's coming out of his mouth??

[BrklynLiberal]

11. Hey! Isn't that Linda Tripp in the Lavender outfit?

These people are disgusting. :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

Baby selling. Guess organ selling is next on the list.

[reality based]

6. Does the Bush family have some spare wombs to donate?

[splat@14]

7. No, but there's a dick or two around. n/t

[NightOwwl]

8. Why adopt a living, breathing orphaned or unwanted baby...

when you can adopt an embryo?

[kcass1954]

13. Yeah, I hear there's a shortage of post-born children to be adopted. n/t

[Up2Late]

29. Exactly, * should be pushing for the adoption of some of these...

...newly orphaned "War Orphans" that he's creating with his stupid wars.:mad:

[patricia92243]

10. Somehow this give me the creeps. n/t

[notadmblnd]

12. Here is their explanation of the cost of "adopting" embryos

What would you estimate the entire cost for the adoption to be?
For this program you have either two or three separate fees depending on where you live:

If you live outside of Southern California:
1. Our program fee of $4000 (includes homestudy).
2. Fees from the agency performing your homestudy, ranging from $1000-$2500. A $1,600 credit is applied if you have already completed a homestudy with another agency.
3. The fertility clinic's fee for a frozen embryo transfer (FET), usually ranging from $800-$2500.

If you live in Southern California:
1. Our program fee of $5600 (includes homestudy).
2. The fertility clinic’s fee for a frozen embryo transfer (FET), usually ranging from $800-$2500.

What does the program fee cover?
We perform a homestudy for local families who need one (see enclosed “What is a Homestudy?”), match you with a family, maintain files, facilitate communication between genetic and adopting families, prepare contracts, relinquishments and other legal paperwork, provide counseling for both sides, facilitate communication between clinics and doctors to ensure that requirements are met for the transfer of the embryos between states, and coordinate shipping of the embryos. Medical expenses are not included.

Does the program fee include medical expenses?
No. Adopting parents need to pay the clinic to thaw and transfer the embryos. Because medical expenses vary by provider, we encourage you to research clinics in your area. We have heard quotes from $800 to $2500 for an embryo transfer. Be sure you are comparing apples to apples with services included in a quote and the costs of subsequent transfers.

What additional out-of-pocket expenses can we expect?
Shipping embryos via Federal Express (approx. $200-300), potential shipping container rental, if necessary ($150-300), and lab work are usually the only other costs incurred in this program. A full accounting of the expenses will be provided. If we are preparing your Homestudy, there will be additional costs.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040202212905/nightlight.org/snowflakes_faqs.htm

[Up2Late]

17. Hey! You can get YOUR Frozen embryos via Federal Express!

"...embryos via Federal Express (approx. $200-300), potential shipping container rental, if necessary ($150-300)..."

This is even more disgusting than I had originally thought.:puke:

[kskiska]

31. Gee, what if the delivery guy leaves the package out by the garage

and no one notices it, and it thaws out? Or the dog eats it?

[KaliTracy]

18. thanks, I was just going to add this... n/t

[Fridays Child]

25. There it is: the frozen embryo "transfer fee."

That fee is the sale price for a human, no matter what they want to call it. By their own definition of what constitutes the quality of being human, they are trading in people. And why would the "transfer fee" vary between $800 and $2,500? Are some embryos better than others?

[K8-EEE]

44. GASP! RW Nuts Ship BABIES VIA FEDERAL EXPRESS!

Now who would put a baby in an overnight courier envelope, unless of course, it's not a baby at all, in which case, wtf are the doing it for anyhow. "Snowflake Babies," what a bunch of nuts.

[CatholicEdHead]

14. Just when you think you have seen it all

If we want adoptions, there are many kids removed from the womb who are waiting right now.

[KaliTracy]

19. looks like they work with international adoptions too -- n/t

[KaliTracy]

15. so people buy the embryos? And get them implanted? Um... I thought

this wasn't legal? Who gets the proceeds, the people who "discarded" them (didn't want or need them anymore, but no doubt, paid a lot of money for fertility drugs and procedures in order to harvest them in the first place) or the facility?

:shrug:

[notadmblnd]

22. They take them off the donors hands for free

form what I read of the web-archives.

[KaliTracy]

27. thanks. should have updated/edited my post when I saw the info

there.

[dsc]

16. So which is it?

I have seen several threads excoriating Christians for refusing to adopt these embryos. Now that they are doing just that, they are freaks or racists. Is there anything pro life Christians could do here to satisfy people?

[Up2Late]

20. Can single women adopt through SNOWFLAKES? Well...NO!

"...Can single women adopt through SNOWFLAKES?
Since SNOWFLAKES began in 1997 we have had very few genetic families open to placing with a single mom and they preferred placement with a married couple. Although we do not require that you be married, we feel it only fair to tell you that single women are unlikely to be selected by genetic families for embryo adoption. As a single woman, you will likely have to wait a longer for embryos, than a married couple, and perhaps will not be matched within the time period when you hope to become pregnant...."

Funny, I don't see a question about if a Lesbian Couple could "Adopt an Embryo," That's odd? :shrug: NOT!

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. For every "snowflake" baby, thousands of embryos are thrown in the trash

Tell me again why these embryos shouldn't be used to cure Parkinson's and Alzheimers?

The snowflake baby photo op was brazen and an affront to all thinking people. It simply doesn't comport with the know use of these embryos for the most part. The "snowflake" baby is so marginal a standard use that it is negligible. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't continue. Go nuts! Increase snowflake adoptions by 100 times! By all means! Make it cheaper even, so not only rich folks can do it. Subsidize it with government funds. I'm all for it! It still won't make a dent in the most common fate of these embryos. It's a nice story, in other words, but it should not drive fucking POLICY, especially when the lives of EXISTING human beings in HUMAN FORM with families, dreams and aspirations are at stake. Gimme a break, Bushie! Yer being RIDICULOUS.

[notadmblnd]

26. some think their goal is to get these embryos declared human

snip:

Abortion rights advocates worry that the program lays the legal groundwork for considering embryos human beings with full legal rights. Using the term "adoption" rather than "donation" makes it appear that the program views embryos as children, said Kate Michelman, president of the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League.

If an embryo were a person with equal rights, abortion could be more easily declared illegal, she said. "It can be used to support their effort to roll back Roe vs. Wade."

Fertility clinics that offer clients the option of giving embryos to other couples use the term "embryo donation." The phrase "embryo adoption" comes from a Christian adoption agency, which uses the same procedures to place embryos as it uses to place babies.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030629142401/nightlight.org/inthenews.htm

[Clark2008]

23. Why the name "snow flake?"

What happens if there's some coal in the flake?

I mean... um...

Sorry. This is sort of sick when there's so many living, breathing, out-of-the-womb, non-embryonic children who need adopting. Hell, I want to adopt an orphaned Iraqi child, but I am not married, so I'm not even going to try (even though I'm 100 percent sure I live in much better circumstances - though single - than he or she does).

[Straight Shooter]

34. Because if you don't use them right away, they melt in your hand.

Or on your ... uh, nevermind. Just thinking about kids playing when the snow begins to fall.

[paparush]

24. "..not use public money to destroy life..."

I almost gagged when I heard * preaching that today..

What about the BILLIONS of public dollars that are killing tens of thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan?????

Assh*le should have said, "We should not use public funds to destroy human life unless those lives being destroyed are sitting on top of the world's 2nd largest oil reserve. If that turns out to be the case, then, by all means, uhhhhh....use as much public funds as you can find, fake, and steal to kill as many of those Islamiac towel heads yuhhhhhhh....as you can...."

* is such a f*cking embarassment.

[paineinthearse]

30. Wasn't Marilyn Chambers was the original "snowflake baby"?

I had CSPAN on in the background and kept hearing "snowflake babies"....but I just was too busy and it did not sink in. Thanks for doing some research.

NOMINATED!

p.s. I thought "snowflake babies" was referring to Marilyn Chambers. Wasn't she the original Ivory Snow baby?

[Skittles]

41. LOL.....pita

I laughed my ass off :thumbsup:

[Contrary1]

32. Here's one of Shrub's best lines yet...

spoken today at the Snowflake Baby Show:

"We should not use public money to support the further destruction of human life."

[paineinthearse]

33. We should not use public money to support the further destruction of human

"We should not use public money to support the further destruction of human life."

[paineinthearse]

35. Source? nt

[Contrary1]

36. Sorry about that...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050524-12.html

Paragraph 8, last line.

[paineinthearse]

37. Thanks

WH is good for one thing, documenting the idjut's babbles.

[xxqqqzme]

40. I'm adding that line to my daily

email to my repulsive, radical rethug rep - dana horbacher

With the publication of the 'Downing Street Memo' I want to know; when do
impeachment proceedings against the current president begin?

'No more public funds for occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan - your king has spoken

"We should not use public money to support the further destruction of human life." GWB 5/24/05 White House 'Snowflake Baby' Show and photo op.'

[gardenista]

38. There is probably no way that they can do this unless

it is agreed to by the genetic "parents" of those embryos. There are many, many papers to sign as to the disposition of unused, frozen embryos.

Furthermore, the success rate for inmplanted frozen embryos is very low. As a matter of fact, in implanting those "Snow Flake babies" (ugh, what a term), they are actually *risking* their lives!

Better to have them float in a cryogenic tube and stay "alive" than risk their well-being by putting them into an actual uterus. Who knows what might happen to them there!

[Up2Late]

39. Here are links to 2 NPR audio clips on this subject, Talk of the Nation..

...did almost 35 minutes of Tuesday show on this subject. Lot's of interesting ideas, and a very sad call from a young woman who broke her Back (falling out of a tree) on a Christian wilderness retreat. She says she and her family were "Pro-life" until this happened, now they understand.

Talk of the Nation
House Girds For Stem-Cell Battle

To Listen to this story...click link above 34:48

Talk of the Nation, May 24, 2005 · The House of Representatives is set to vote this week on stem-cell research legislation. President Bush has already said he will veto any bill that creates new cell lines from human embryos. We look at the nexus of religion, politics and science.

Guests:

Joe Palca, NPR Science Correspondent

Rep. Joe Schwarz, Republican from Michigan who supports embryonic stem cell research

Rep. Bart Stupak, Democrat from Michigan who opposes embryonic stem cell research

NOTE: Rep. Stupak didn't show up for show

Bush Veto Looms as House Supports Stem Cell Research

To Listen to this story... click link above 4:12

by Julie Rovner

All Things Considered, May 24, 2005 · The House of Representatives passes a bill that would expand federal support for embryonic stem cell research. President Bush opposes research involving human embryos and is likely to veto the bill if it reaches his desk. The vote of 238-194 leaves the bill vulnerable to a Bush veto.

[ngGale]

42. There goes the old "I found you in the cabbage patch"

story. Now, it's I found you in the freezer.:sarcasm:

[blindpig]

43. with so many children wanting on a grossly overpopulated planet

these people are grotesque hypocrites. A parody of the Christianity that they profess. With so many children in need of a family they do this..........for fanaticism and racism

[Tesla]

47. Stem Cells know no color

They just are life giving miracles.....on both sides of the issue.

Think about it, those embryos belong to a man and woman that tried to have children.
Do they need permission to sell these "Snowflakes" from the families that belonged to these frozen embryos.
I know if I had an embryo somewhere frozen, I would want to know who was raising it!!!!

I wouldn't care less if it was being used to save lives.

[blindpig]

48. do the cell doners sign a waiver?

Could be tricky buisness. The main thing is not to confuse an embryo with a person.

[Up2Late]

49. "...not to confuse an embryo with a person?" But that IS the RW strategy!

You should hear this NPR news clip from this mornings "Morning Edition." It includes sound bites of Tom DeLay and NJ Rep Chris Smith yesterday during the stem cell debate. Smith says they spent years in a "Frozen Orphanage."

So, disgusting. The level of Hypocrisy, I think, is going to reach monumental heights on this one. :banghead: :crazy:

Here's the link to the clip:

Bush Reaffirms Vow to Veto Stem Cell Measure

To listen to this story... click link above 3:55

by Julie Rovner

Morning Edition, May 25, 2005 · President Bush reasserts his intention to veto a measure to expand funding for research using stem cells from human embryos. He says it creates "incentives to destroy emerging human life." Bill supporters say the research could accelerate finding cures for numerous diseases. The House of Representatives approved the bill Tuesday; it moves next to the Senate.

[CrispyQ]

54. Agreed!

Six billion miracles is enough!

Between sanctions & war, we've managed to kill, what, half a million Iraqi children? No concern for them, though! But these frozen blobs of goo have gotten the zealots panties all in a bunch.

:wtf:

[ananda]

45. I don't understand why..

.. snowflake babies and stem cell research are considered mutually exclusive?

Anyone want to enlighten me?

Answers on a postcard, please. lol

Sue

[janx]

46. I have a very good friend who recently had twins due to

in vitro fertilization. She and her husband checked out <b>SNOWFLAKE</b> before they decided where to get the embryos.

<b>SNOWFLAKE,</B> it seems, insisted that the <i>donors</i> of the blastocysts have the right to check up and see how the babies were doing, etc.

I just had this conversation with her the other night!

[johnaries]

50. 79 adoptions with 11 more in process...

out of 400,000 currently frozen embryos. Gee, that only leaves 399,910 for stem cell research. Guess we should support Bush's veto, huh?

[Zookeeper]

51. A "Snowflake Baby" mother testifies on the site...

that she received 13 embryos. They thawed 5 and implanted the 3 that survived the thawing. She gave birth to twins, not triplets.

So, what did they do with the other 8 embryos? And did they have a funeral for the two embryos that died during "thawing?"

[CatholicEdHead]

55. Good question

for standard in-vitro, would that be considered "murder" by the legal definition? Assuming the talking point of "life begins at conception"?

[Zookeeper]

56. Well, it illustrates the inconsistency of their position.

I think these are the sort of questions we should be publically demanding answers to.

:hi:

[demo dutch]

52. Why doesn't anyone mention the cost involved for in-vitro!

Most if not all insurance companies don't cover it. It isn't like mainstream America can afford to do this even if they wanted to. The success rate is low, so you have to try several times cost can be as as high as $4000 per try!

This is such a bunch of bull!

[Up2Late]

53. This whole thing reminds me of the...

"Late Night, after 4:00 am, infomercial" scams that tell you that you can make millions in real estate with "No Money Down!" And as someone above noticed, these "adoption agency's" get the frozen embryos FREE!

This is so disgusting.:mad: :puke:

[Up2Late]

57. Kick n/t

:kick: