Jeb just signed bill that will force underage kids to have

[katmondoo]

permission from a parent to have an abortion.

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. Jeb is more conservative than his brother His Fraudulency.

[HockeyMom]

3. Freeper sites

These people are saying this will stop girls from being "butchered by abortion mills" and their parents will then be able to get them good prenatal care. Duh? Understand their thinking? Once again, they assume that parents will NOT be giving their permission for any abortion. If the girl has a good relationship with her parents, she will be a able to tell them and get permission.

However, if she is from a broken home, in foster care, has FUNDIE parents, she is going to have big time problems with this. What will be the outcome? They will seek ILLEGAL methods and back alley abortions.

[ComerPerro]

9. And the biggest disconnect in that "logic":

Lets say the girl is from a home that has the means and the desire to provide adequate prenatal care.

Its not even the same issue.

Suppose a girl ir raped by her spousal-abusing, Bush supporting father. What makes them think that this "loving parent" will provide prenatal care for the child? I mean, really?

[tjdee]

2. I'm not that upset about it, frankly.

I know that the correct liberal response is to say "what if the parents are abusive/uncaring/etc., we'd rather have a safe operation for a young girl than the horrible alternatives" and "if your relationship with your kid is so bad you don't know she's pregnant, notification won't fix that".

But I have a little girl. And if she wants to have an abortion when she's 14, I better friggin know. So that I can talk it over with her, get her a good doctor instead of a clinic, and be there to drive her home.

Course, I don't live in Florida, so...

[KitSileya]

4. And you don't molest your 14-year old, I presume.

So your 14-year old won't have to get permission for an abortion from the guy who knocked her up. Nor are you a fundamentalist that thinks any abortion is wrong, so you'd rather your 14-year old carry her rapists child to term if she were raped. Nor, I assume, are you a mentally disturbed parent who will plain kill her if she is pressured into sex by her boyfriend ("you don't love me if you don't have sex with me") and because of the lack of sex ed, ends up pregnant.

However, there are cases where this is the case, and forcing these teens to go before a judge to get permission if they don't dare their parents will only lead them to either have back alley abortions, with the resulting deaths, or have the baby and toss it in a dumpster.

Seeing as you're posting on DU, I'm gonna assume you are reasonable enough in your child rearing that your 14-year old feel secure enough in your relationship to talk to you should she get in trouble.Most kids with good home situations do. It's the ones with horrific home situations that will be doubly screwed with this piece of legislation.

[tjdee]

10. You're right...but I wonder how many people are like me.

I'm not arguing your rightness at all. I *know* what the "correct" response is on this. But I'm wondering whether the majority of parents are like me, or whether the majority of parents are psycho abusers. I guess that doesn't matter, really.

But parents, even pscyho abusers, are trusted to make every kind of decision for their underage children, and it kind of bothers me that some feel this *one* decision, not a small one, is just fine to be decided by a 14, 15, 16 year old without guidance from parents (who are not all fundie psycho abusers). If we're going to do that, maybe we should address bad parents *before* their daughters are old enough to get pregnant.

I understand the opposing view, I just feel differently--although I do feel for an abused girls who are in this situation. I would support some kind of counseling for girls to gauge whether abuse is the concern, and I'd be in favor of a notification waiver.

[KitSileya]

20. Pardon me if I'm wrong,

but isn't a girl who's given birth to a child automatically 'mature' enough to take care of that baby according to the law, considering that she has legal responsibility for the child (i.e., parental rights.) When does this start? The moment the baby is born? Is that the magical border of time? If a girl has the right to decide whether her baby can be adopted, or other equally serious decisions concerning the child, doesn't she have the 'maturity' to decide whether to have an abortion?

As has been pointed out in other threads, this isn't an appendectomy, and even with an appendectomy, the doctor will save a 14-year old's life if it is ruptured and she needs immediate surgery, even if they cannot contact her parents right away.

[tjdee]

24. Legally she is, but honestly, probably not.

I'm not disagreeing with you completely...I don't think there's some magical timetable....I would say a 14 year old isn't mature enough to be doing any of that, which is why 14 year olds shouldn't be sexually active, LOL.

The big thing, for me, is the fourteen year old making all these decisions by herself. These are huge decisions for any woman to make, I imagine they are crushing for a teenager. It is very important that she is helped by rational adults who will help her to decide what is best for her. Will some of these adults try to railroad her? Probably. I think I'm veering off the subject now, LOL.

Being pregnant is rarely an emergency, so I'm not sure I see the point being made with the appendectomy.

[KitSileya]

27. Oh, I agree with you

A 14-year old shouldn't have to make these kinds of decisions at all. However, the world being what it is, and especially with the US being what it is at the moment, there'll be more and more pregnant 14 year olds that'll have to make this decision. And making it more difficult for them to chose one thing, will only make it more likely that those already in a bad situtation will end up in a worse one. Either, she will have a back alley abortion, or she will end up having to either care for an infant, or give it up for adoption, both of which I believe are more damaging than an abortion. Or, she'll hide the problem, literally - often in a dumpster.

As for the appendectomy analogy, what I wanted to say was that some medical decisions are made without parental decisions - and as I read the thread I saw that that 14-year old can decide to have a c-section on her own - but she cannot decide to have an abortion? That is a better example than my appendectomy, I believe. And it is a better example of the increasing insanity of the US.

[rkc3]

13. But you know what, repubs don't give a shit about kids from broken homes.

A poor girl dying from a back alley abortion is getting what she deserves - we've all heard the recriminations from these idiots who support the dignity of life.

[KitSileya]

21. Yup. They don't care all that much about the sanctity of life.

And the greatest sin of all is being too poor to buy yourself a safe abortion, whether that be in an American hospital, or in Sweden, as of old.

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. And if she's too scared to tell you, so she goes to someone who

knows someone --

It could be her death warrant.

Not to be too harsh.

[tjdee]

16. Well, yeah....

I'm not 100% comfortable with any of the solutions to this issue.

I just feel very uncomfortable with my child being approached/talked to in this regard without my presence. I remember reading about African Americans being sterilized, and I wonder what would happen if my kid went on her merry way to get an abortion without telling mom--and having something like that happen. Or anything.

But you make a good point too. :shrug:

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. Best bet is to keep communication open, and hope that is

enough.

Being a DUer, I suspect you already try to do that, but it's no guarantee.

And so many are incapable of that. Myself included, as an absent, divorced father. My girls are both adults, now, I'm glad to say.

[McCamy Taylor]

8. In Texas, your little girl can get an amniocentesis, an epidural, a

c-section an adoption, treat her syphilus, gonorhea, AIDS, bipolar disorder, ectopic pregnancy---and they will never tell you. Indeed, if they try to tell you without her consent they will be breaking the law. But if she tries to get a first trimester abortion, in about two or three weeks she will need your approval first. I talked with a staff memeber of one of state legislators who authored the Texas bill. She didnt even know about all the medical exemptions to parental consent and she said that there was absolutely no plans to get parents involved in any of the pregnancy, contraception, mental health or VD issues that are currently exempt--except abortion.

So, if you are counting upon the law to open up channels of communication between you and your daughter, you are going to have a long wait. Maybe you had better do it yourself.

[tjdee]

19. Well I don't agree with that either.

That's ridiculous, and it's sad that the fundamentalists/ultra conservatives don't care about anything *but* abortions.

I wouldn't be counting on the law to open up channels of communications--I'd have to be pretty out of it to not know my kid has syphilis/AIDS/is pregnant. But as I say above, underage children have their health decisions made by their parents (except for Texas, apparently!) and it seems strange to make a special case for abortions.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

14. Your daughter is lucky

Your daughter has a parent who is understanding.

The intention of the Florida legislation isn't to let a concerned parent make sure their pregnant 14 year old daughter gets an abortion from a good doctor, but rather to keep her from getting an abortion at all. What 14 year old is going to tell her parents that she's pregnant, especially if she knows there's nothing they will do about it other than scream at her and call her a slut?

By the time she starts showing and there's no way she can keep hiding the pregnancy from her parents then it will be too late for an abortion, and the fundies get their way.

Ultimately, the fundie line of thought is, "Pre-marital sex is bad, and bearing and raising a child out of wedlock is God's punishment to a woman who engages in it." This line of thinking only applies to women, of course; you don't see anything in the law which requires the father-to-be to notify his parents...

[tjdee]

22. That's another story, LOL!

Deadbeat dads/fathers of soon to be aborted fetuses get off scot free, like they just had some orgasmic dream that ended.... :grr: very sore subject for me....

Anyway...I do think it's a shame that conservatives are basically using this as another part of a political agenda--but I am pretty sure 90% of 14 year old girls will initially freak and want an abortion. I would just hope that someone who cares about them calms them down, and talks to them about all the options and possibilities. I don't know that they get that from a doctor or a Planned Parenthood counselor. Of course, if the girl is being abused, she's not getting that at home either.

I know women who have had abortions, and the whole business seems so lonely. I'd hate to think of my daughter going through that just because she's afraid of what she *thinks* I'll say/do.

[sazemisery]

5. Oklahoma's Gov just signed the same type of legislation

last Friday. And he is a DEMOCRAT.

[meppie-meppie not]

6. bring on the coat hangers :( n/t

[ComerPerro]

11. The Coathanger Coalition

[McCamy Taylor]

12. So true. The feds are trying to make it illegal to cross state lines

to get around state parental consent laws. When that happens we are talking back alley abortion time, and that is when Right to Life is going to experience severe political backlash. They cant outlaw adult choice, because adults want choice. At the moment, a lot of adults like the one above THINK they want to have the final say so when their under 18 year olds get an abortion. However, when the girls start dying in pools of blood, the parents are going to blame Right to Life.

[meppie-meppie not]

18. with each passing day I become more and more despondent...n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

15. Illegal double standard for morality. Minors cant get abortions

because they lack political capital, while adults retain choice, because Right to Life knows that if they tough adult choice the GOP will suffer at the polls. Like only prosecuting african-americans for crimes and not whites--something that is also done all too commonly in this country.

The USA really sucks.

[ckramer]

17. I think democrats should be careful not to criticize this too much

This depends on the circumstances.

I tend to believe this generally is good for the girls; of course if the parents are jerks, that won't make any difference.

[truebrit71]

26. If there is no caveat about abusive parents being the father of the fetus.

...then we should kick up as much of a stink as possible....This is a bad law....

[Bridget Burke]

25. Are exceptions allowed?

In Texas, it is possible for a girl to go to a judge to explain why she cannot get parental permission. This should take care of abusive, absent or molesting parents.

But legislators are trying to make this more difficult.