All this talk about 2008 is really petty.

[Goldeneye]

We aren't talking about who voted for IWR or who stood by Bush or who is to blame for Bush stealing two elections or who didn't say what. It's not about the perfect candidate. It's just not about that. We are destroying our environment. Our water is polluted. Our planet is heating up, and the consequences are going to be disastrous. We're running out of oil and we have no idea what we're going to do about it. We're in a war that we don't know how to end. There are people starving to death all over the world. Americans were left to die in Louisiana. And we have a president who doesn't give a rats ass. That's what this is about. In 2006 it will be about getting democrats, any democrats, elected to congress. In 2008 it will be about keeping other neo-con crazies out of power. That's what this is about. It's about preventing the neo-con induced Apocalypse. Do you see why, who the democratic candidate is just really doesn't matter?

Now don't start with that crap about Hillary being a hawk and Kerry voting for IWR or Clark being a Republican or Feingold voting for Roberts or whatever bullshit you've got to say about whoever the nominee is. It doesn't matter, because everyone of you knows that no matter who the nominee is, they will NOT invade foreign countries for fun. They will NOT send assholes to the UN, and they will not be neocons. Everyone here knows it. The candidate might be more conservative that you want. They might be more liberal than you want. But it just doesn't matter. Do you see that?

Barring something incredible between now and 2008 there will be two real contenders in the election: A democrat and a republican. If you can vote for the Apocalypse (third party) with a clear conscience, by all means do it. I'm not going to get in the way of you're ideological purity, but remember that when you complain about Jeb cutting funding for AIDS research or poverty aid to foreign countries or when he gets to choose a SC nominee or when he invades China.

[MasonJar]

1. I second that statement with much enthusiasm!

[yurbud]

2. until the end of the primaries, it makes sense to discuss WHICH

Democrat will do a good job, and I'm not at all sure that someone like Joe Biden wouldn't be just as willing to start a war when his banking and corpoprate backers tell him to as Bush is.

This seems to be a recurring theme lately: Back any democrat and don't look at the details. Well, the details got us to this point.

Not enough people noticed details like Clinton signing the telecommunications act that allowed the further consolidation of the media which made it easier for Bush to corral ALL of their support, and not enough people noticed even now how many Democrats supported the "softening up" of Iraq for invasion through a decade of sanctions.

It is not enough to say "any democrat, right or wrong." People should hold politicians accountable before, during, and after elections.

And from a purely gamesmanship point of view as you DLC shills care so much about, you suck. You offer nothing except vague assurances you'll be better than the GOP, then go back to lifting your skirt and whoring for corporate money. That doesn't motivate people to get out of bed and go to the polls, and if the GOP offers a candidate who isn't frothing at the mouth, people will vote for him because he at least articulates a consistent set of values that he actually pursues, unlike the DLC who always has their finger in the wind and folds instead of fights when their corporate sponsors tell them to take a dive.

I want some one whose loyalties aren't divided between corporate America and the rest of us.

[Outer_Limit]

3. It does matter who the candidate is

We have to make sure that they will be active in reversing the destruction that the current administration has done to this country, and not merely content to maintain the status quo.