Paul Begala calls me a "Conspiracy Theorist" and the Left Faction of the

[KoKo]

Democratic Party who supported an "Unelectable" candidate on Imus this morning. It's clear that because I feel Bush went into Iraq over oil, Halliburton and to appease the "Project for the New American Century," that I am the Left fringe of the Democratic Party who is not acceptable and needs to be denied.

I must admit that Begala was really worked up about this to the extent that I felt he wished something more drastic could be done to drive us out. Anyone who thinks that Gore wasn't trashed by these DLC'ers has got to be dilusional at this point because Begala's performance this morning was proof of what many of us have long thought about the DLC/DNC.

There's also a possibility that they are so afraid of us that their true intentions and affiliations with the Repuglicans (which many of us have long suspected) are finally being exposed for all to see. They have to chance exposing themselves in order crush the new media and radicalism appearing on the Left because they are in danger of losing their power and their cushy insider status they've enjoyed for so long.

Bringing Dean down along with those of us who supported Dean and Kucinich is dangerous and risky, but desperation to hold onto their own power made the exposure a chance they had to take. The Begala's and the Carvil's and the Kurtz, Finemans, Matthews and the rest of the Media Whores and Political Guns for Hire.

[edzontar]

1. Begala and his DLC cohort are the ones leading us to defeat

Kerry/Lieberman in 04--the DLC, the DINO, the doomed.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

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[ShimokitaJer]

6. Interesting Strategy

Let's see.. you've got disbelieving denial, association of Dean/Clark supporters with Nazis, and then comparison to the Greens as your strategy for attacking the point. Those seem fairly standard for those who deny the DLC and insider politics are damaging the party.

What you don't have is any support that the DLC are actually helping the party or pursuing a strategy that helps us defeat the GOP. When I start seeing that, I might start taking these denials seriously.

[mikehiggins]

8. Well, that was pretty offensive

So, supporting a candidate is "brown shirt" if that candidate isn't Kerry?

Actually, the Clark folks are increasingly "blue shirts". There are some really fantastic hand-embroidered Clark shirts floating around out there and I'm seeing more and more of them down here in Florida.

Look, Clinton was a great guy and all that, and we enjoyed a good deal of prosperity on his watch and all that, but we need someone in office that will work hard to roll back the Bush agenda, even in the face of a likely domination of Congress by the GOP.

Kerry just is not that man.

Dean would, Clark would, Edwards most likely would, Kuchinich definitely would, Sharpton might (Truman had some shady dealing in his early years and look how he turned out) but Kerry?

He was there, bub, shucking and jiving, since SCOTUS handed the crown to Bush. DOes he have something new and innovative to add to the political discourse? Hockey doesn't count.

The media has anointed a candidate who presents absolutely no reason to support him OTHER than he is not George Bush. That is not going to fly in the general election.

For all the low approval ratings, when the average voter goes into that voting booth in November he or she had better have a reason to vote against the incumbent war-time President, and Kerry just is not it.

Wake up, get off your partisan high horse, and smell the coffee.

Can't you just smell what BushCO and the media is cooking?

[Walt Starr]

17. I'm with you

Clark is my #2 right now and my primary isn't until March 16.

[Armstead]

4. Begala is the type who goves us all a bad name

The DLC thinks the left is too "strident" because we want some substance and real change.

But people like are the first to get strident in a shallow, meaningless way. He's always yelling "Bush is a liar" and similar gratuituous personal insults. Which is the kind of name-calling the "swing voters" supposedly don't want to hear.

But when peopel like Kucinich and Dean actually go below the surface, they are accused of being too "angry" and "left" and "extreme."

[John_H]

5. We need more of those REAL Dem pundits who back Dean

Scarlborogh!!!! Zahn!!!!! Tweety!!!!!!!!

[mikehiggins]

10. How about all them media types who support Clark?

Like...

Uh...

Like...

Well, maybe Krugman once in a while, maybe.

If the media is going to decide our candidate, looks like Clark is out of the running. All those supporters, all that money, all for nothing because Don Imus and Tucker Carlson do not approve.

Yeah, that's the America I want to live in.

[mmonk]

7. Why do none of them

broach the PNAC subject I wonder?

[angryblackmale]

9. Paul Begala has always been center-right trash

[Must_B_Free]

13. always a disappointment

.

[CheshireCat]

11. Begala knows we have no where else to go!

What an and a**hole! Begala is a whore!

Unfortunately he is right about us having no place to turn but the Dem nominee. (God, I hated saying that)

I guess I am just an old socialist type who has become pragmatic in my older years. I have always voted idealisticly, but this year I will vote for the person with the best chance of defeating Bushco. I am tired of being treated like a terrorist for peacefully protesting the killing of innocent people!


But, please, understand this one fact: We MUST get rid of Bush, no matter who the Dem nominee is. If we don't stop him, by 2008, our country will be in a hopeless state. Our democracy (or what is left of it) will have disappeared.

[Walt Starr]

19. If I the polls show the candidate is doomed

I guarantee I'll be going to a third party.

[Justice]

12. Paul Begala Was Right On Imus

I heard him today as well, and have a completely different take on what he said. I believe that what Paul is saying is you don't need to believe Bush went to Iraq for oil in order to be digusted with him. But it another way - why try to prove ie that Bush was a deserter when all you have to prove is that his military record is suspect and full of holes and problems? By trying to cross over the harder threshold, you lose all of those people who are prepared to believe you as to the lower threshold issue

He said that Bush LIED -- he LIED to the American people. He said what Bush did was MONSTROUS.

That Bush knew/should have known the intelligence was bad. That Bush said Iraq was a gathering threat, Cheney said Iraq was a mortal threat - and they knew the intelligence was bad!

That after 9/11 Bush wanted to show the world that the US was prepared to lose lives to fight for our way of life, that Bush went after a Muslim country to make that point, that Iraq was chosen not because they were strong and a danger to us, but that they were chosen because they were weak and we would win.

[edzontar]

14. And Kerry claims to have FALLEN for his lies...

Unlike me, unlike Ted Kennedy, unlike Dean, unlike Kucinich, unlike Sen. Byrd, unlike the millions who protested in the USA, Europe, the world...

When it mattered, Kerry stood with Bush, and not with us.

Kerry represents the Joe Biden, Paul Begala, Joe Lieberman, pro-war, pro-Bush, DLC DINO wing of the party.

He just waffles a bit to get Dem votes.

I will vote for him, but this is the last time I poull the lever for a DLC sell-out.

[CheshireCat]

18. I understand how you feel, edzontar.

My feelings about Kerry are not the same as your feelings. He could turn out to be ok. He did sell-out on Iraq and any Washington insider has been bought off by some corporation.

My only hope for Kerry is my remembrance of him as a leader of Vietnam Vets against the war.

It sucks having to vote for the lesser of evils!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. I admire your s stomach. Mine isn't that strong.

His sell-out vote, the pathetic attempts to paper it over, the abandonment of the left, his embrace of and by the rightwing of the party, all lead me to start looking for Greener fields.

[CheshireCat]

26. If Bush wins in 2004, many of us will by in jail by 2008!

Remember the memo from the Justice Dept. telling local police to treat nonviolent protesters as potential terrorists. Also, in Patriotic Act II, the want the right to declare anyone a terrorist group and jail them.

I say bite the bullet in 2004 and get rid of Georgie Boy. Once he is gone, the left can rise again.

[Walt Starr]

31. I don't buy the rhetoric

Bush is a miserable failure. I do not see a Bush fascist dictatorship being installed within four years.

"Ain't gonna happen" comes to mind.

[Justice]

28. I Agree With You About Kerry

My point is that Paul Begala was making the case that would sell to independents and moderates (the swing voters). He was only saying that you don't need to argue conspiracy when simple lying will do.

I completely agree with you on Kerry saying he was lied to.

Here is the question I would like Kerry and Edwards to get at a debate -- if you weren't running for president, would you have supported the IWR?

Cuz I believe Kerry would not have supported it (he would have "led the fight against it" as he is so fond of saying - even though no one challenges him on that).

Edwards might have supported it, I don't know.

[SeattleRob]

15. the sooner we all realize....

that the Washington Establishment and the DLC hold us, we the people, in complete contempt. We are the "flyover" states, we are the ones that can easily be manipulated.

[Walt Starr]

16. Prediction: If the Democratic Party loses in '04

There WILL be a schizm.

[CheshireCat]

23. Washington Insiders are losers!

I still have hopes that Dean will overtake Kerry because I do not think that a Washington insider can win.

Dean is too conservative for me, as is Kerry. Still, I think Dean is the one to beat Bush.

But what do I know? I am so far from the mainstream voter that I gave up trying to understand the mindset of most voters when Reagan won. Never understood how anyone could have voted for him.

[Tesha]

20. Just remember on Vovember 2nd: They TOLD US to "Get Lost!"

So when we don't turn up safe-and-sound in the "D"
column, they won't have any questions about why we're
no longer there.

Tesha

[Capn Sunshine]

21. YOU ARE EXACTLY CORRECT KoKo

Anyone who thought this was going to be easy to expose these inside the beltway prostitutes has awakened to the fact that changing "business as usual" is not simple as getting a bunch of money and a worthy cause.

We still have 48 states to go people and Dean actually leads in committed delegate counts at the moment.

The establishment , after staging the little Media fest of JK and ponying up the corporate dough ( because , now its EXPECTED! After all, he won Iowa and New Hampshire! ) thinks we all will give this up and go away.

Begala speaks for them and Mr Establishment, the Bob Dole of the 21st century , the man expected to lose to Bush like a true member of the club.

Oh, but don't feel too badly. It will be "close". :grr:

[bigtree]

22. voted down, fine

I, for one, don't want to 'bring Dean down'. I think Begala and Carville talk too fast, and don't think very broadly outside of their own agenda. Whatever that is. I think Gov. Dean has contributed a great deal to this campaign, in ideas and energy that has so far led to amazing turnouts. I think mostly attributable to the excitement the governor has brought to the race. I hope we don't crush anyone. I look forward to a unified convention. I've seen more bitterness than this. Bob Kerry savaged Clinton and them apologized after he faded. These candidates know how to pick up a phone and I'll bet that there is less animosity between them than there is between posters here and between media know-nothings.

[Julien Sorel]

24. Not a hint of conspiracy theories here. No-siree.

I must admit that Begala was really worked up about this to the extent that I felt he wished something more drastic could be done to drive us out. Anyone who thinks that Gore wasn't trashed by these DLC'ers has got to be dilusional at this point because Begala's performance this morning was proof of what many of us have long thought about the DLC/DNC.

There's also a possibility that they are so afraid of us that their true intentions and affiliations with the Repuglicans (which many of us have long suspected) are finally being exposed for all to see. They have to chance exposing themselves in order crush the new media and radicalism appearing on the Left because they are in danger of losing their power and their cushy insider status they've enjoyed for so long.

Bringing Dean down along with those of us who supported Dean and Kucinich is dangerous and risky, but desperation to hold onto their own power made the exposure a chance they had to take. The Begala's and the Carvil's and the Kurtz, Finemans, Matthews and the rest of the Media Whores and Political Guns for Hire.

Perfectly rational and well-supported arguments, totally unlike what one would see from a conspiracy theorist.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. The "left faction" just won't shut up and obey.

Despite the Loyalty Oaths, despite the pathetic "explanations" of the IWR sellout, despite the hypocritical pleas for "unity" and "ABB", we're going to stick around and point out the EmperorWannabees nudity.

We're not going away..at least not until November should the right wing of the party prevail and get one of their candidates on the ballot.

[TexasPatriot]

29. i'd like to remind you of an old interview

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2003_09_28.html#002033

Clark is right there with you...

[Justice]

30. Clark's Depth and Breath of Knowledge Blows Me Away

I supported him before that interview, but man, it was powerful to read. I had to read it several times there was so much meat in there.

The one additional thing Begala said was that if Bush truly believed the intellignence community screwed up - then any rationale person would expect an investigation into the screw up. The fact that Bush rejected calls for an independent investigation of apparently faulty intelligence on Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction program proves that Bush is lying.

[TexasPatriot]

32. If we TRULY want to clean up the mess that is DC

we're going to need someone with the brains to recognize the problem and the balls to take it on. There is no question in my mind that Clark is that man.

[Skwmom]

33. Since Begala has either

trashed Clark or did very weak defenses of lies and smears I beginning to think you are right. Begala and Carville have been talking up the insiders - Kerry and Edwards.