Lugar's retribution for Reid's closing the Senate - Nov 1

[Mass]

From the Congressional record yesterday.

In Nov 1rst , there was a SFRC meeting for the confirmation of the Netherlands ambassador.

With proxies, the vote was 9-9 (Hagel voting NO with the Dems).

Lugar claimed an obscure rule to refuse to count the proxies and report the nomination as accepted.

FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE BUSINESS MEETING -- (Senate - November 09, 2005)

GPO's PDF

---

Mr. BIDEN. Mr. President, on November 1, the Committee on Foreign Relations conducted a business meeting to consider several matters.

The motion to report the nomination of Roland Arnall to be U.S. Ambassador to the Netherlands failed on a 9-to-9 tie. The chairman then ruled that the nomination was ordered reported by an 8-to-2 vote, which reflected the vote of those physically present.

With all respect to my friend and chairman, Senator LUGAR, I disagree with his ruling, which negated the proxy votes cast by me and several of my colleagues; I believe it to be inconsistent with the rules of the Committee on Foreign Relations. So that the record of the proceedings at the meeting will be available to all members, I ask unanimous consent that the relevant portion of the transcript of that meeting be printed in the RECORD.

There being no objection, the material was ordered to be printed in the RECORD, as follows:

Business Meeting of the Committee on Foreign Relations, U.S. Senate November 1, 2005

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:32 p.m. in Room S-116, The Capitol, Hon. RICHARD G. LUGAR presiding.

Present: Senators LUGAR , Hagel, Chafee, Allen, Coleman, Voinovich, Alexander, Sununu, Murkowski, and Sarbanes.

Senator Sarbanes. First of all, on the point about filing lawsuits to delay the nomination, there are a number of individual suits that have been brought regarding some of these matters. I don't premise the position I'm taking on that.

I think in effect a screening process has been done by the State attorneys general, and therefore I think it raises the issue to a much higher level, that these State attorney generals are considering bringing charges in this instance.

Mr. Arnall asserts that his motto is to do the right thing. That's what we're trying to get him to do in this instance. He owns this company. It's privately held. We had testimony from people that were at the company telling about how intimately he was in its activities, how much he's essential to the sort of direction and the drive, the vitality of the company.

He does have an impressive life story and I alluded to that in the course of the hearing and said as much.

But you've got a real problem here in terms of these practices, and Mr. Arnall ought to resolve this matter in my opinion before he goes off to the Netherlands in order to assume this ambassadorship.

The Chairman. Well, the committee will now vote on the nomination. I will ask the Clerk to call the roll.

Ms. Oursler. Mr. Hagel.

Senator Hagel. No.

Ms. Oursler. Mr. Chafee.

Senator Chafee. Aye.

Ms. Oursler. Mr. Allen.

Senator CHAFEE. Aye.

GPO's PDF

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Coleman.

Senator COLEMAN. Aye.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Voinovich.

Senator VOINOVICH. Aye.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Alexander.

Senator ALEXANDER. Aye

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Sununu.

Senator SUNUNU. Aye.

Ms. OURSLER. Ms. Murkowski.

Senator MURKOWSKI. Aye.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Martinez.

The CHAIRMAN. Votes aye by proxy.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Biden.

Senator SARBANES. No by proxy.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Sarbanes.

Senator SARBANES. No.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Dodd.

Senator SARBANES. No by proxy.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Kerry.

Senator SARBANES. No by proxy.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Feingold.

Senator SARBANES. No by proxy.

Ms. OURSLER. Mrs. Boxer.

Senator SARBANES. No by--I'll pass for the moment.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Nelson.

Senator SARBANES. No by proxy.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Obama.

Senator SARBANES. No by proxy.

Ms. OURSLER. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Aye.

Senator SARBANES. Boxer, no by proxy.

The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will please report the vote.

Ms. OURSLER. The vote is nine to nine.

The CHAIRMAN. Now let me make certain that the committee knows what the reporting requirement is, because I'll ask the Clerk then to give the report on members physically present. Our rule says ``No nomination can be reported unless a majority of the committee members are physically present. The vote of the committee to report a measure or matter shall require the concurrence of a majority of those members who are physically present at the time the vote is taken.''

Now, what is the vote among those who are physically present?

Ms. OURSLER. Of those physically present, eight voted in favor of the nomination and two voted against.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, the chair believes that Rule 4 on reporting would indicate that in this particular instance the nomination be forwarded to the full Senate. But that is--I ask those who may have question about that to refer to Rule 4 on quorums and on reporting.

Senator SARBANES. Mr. Chairman, as I read this rule, in order to report it out you will need a majority physically present, but that doesn't vitiate the proxies voted against. The rule makes no reference to that and those proxies are valid, and therefore we wouldn't--the vote is not carried. This applies of you to try to use proxies to constitute the majority for reporting it out, but it doesn't apply to the use of proxies to negate reporting it out, I respectfully submit to you, and I think that's a fair reading of the rule. And that's the way we've done it here in the past.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, that is an important reading, but the chair believes that the reading at least gives credence at least to my interpretation, which is that a majority of those voting and physically present, given the fact a majority was here to create the quorum, would lead to a favorable decision.

Senator SARBANES. Well, I think we need to sort this out. I make the point of order a quorum is not present.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, a quorum is not present, but the quorum was present at the time of the vote and that is what is required, and the chair declared that the vote was in favor of reporting this nomination to the Senate floor.

Senator SARBANES. On what basis is the chairman reaching that conclusion?

The CHAIRMAN. On the basis that we had a quorum and that a majority of those physically present voted in favor of the nominee.

Senator SARBANES. But the majority of the committee didn't do that. In fact the vote here was a tie vote.

The CHAIRMAN. Counting in the proxies.

Senator SARBANES. It was a tie vote. Yes, it was a tie vote.

You can't bring it out with proxies. The chairman--what this rule is designed to do is the chairman can't come in with a bunch of proxies in his hands and then on the basis of that bring a measure out of the committee. You can be called on that in terms of having a majority.

The CHAIRMAN. I appreciate the point the chair is making--rather, the Senator is making. I believe that my interpretation is correct and I would just indicate that that at least is what is going to occur. Now, the member may think of a means for appealing that in some fashion.

Senator SARBANES. Think what?

The CHAIRMAN. Of a means of appealing my decision. But for the time being, my decision is that we had a vote and we have reported the nominee.

Senator SARBANES. Well, I think it's an abuse of the rules and I want to state that to the chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand.

Senator SARBANES. Absolutely.

The CHAIRMAN. I thank the members of the committee.

[babylonsister]

1. Sounds like Luger is taking lessons from

Sensenbrenner and Hastert. :eyes: But I do wonder where all those Dems were...

[Mass]

2. Probably supporting Reid - it was at the same time they were closing the

Senate.

[babylonsister]

3. Ah, that would explain their absence. Thxs! nt

[Pirate Smile]

4. Lugar - one of the "used to be" decent republicans who has discredited

himself during the Bush Administration.

Are they blackmailing him?

His actions during the Bolton Hearings made me think he had been kidnapped by aliens and replaced with a Bushbot.

WTF Lugar! What happened to you? :wtf:

[mopinko]

5. they've got pictures

semi-seriously, i do think they are blackmailing some of these people. how hard is it to set up a powerful man with a little forbidden fruit. power is an aphrodisiac, and works on both the holder and those around him.

[Toots]

6. His argument made no sense

He said because of no quorum they could not use proxies but then turns around and says at the time of the vote there was a quorum and that quorum voted 8-2 in favor of reporting out. Either Proxy votes are acceptable or they are not but you can't pick and choose when they are and when they aren't by whim. Not sure if there is any sort of appeal process for this but If I were the Democrats I would insure from this point on that there will be no quorums until the rules are followed. Shut down the Senate until the GOP plays by established rules of conduct.