Here comes the "War critics demoralize the troops" line again

[KennedyGuy]

I am sick to death of the repugs going on air and telling everyone that if you question Chimpys actions regarding the mis-information campaign which got us into the war, that you are "demoralizing the troops". I just watched about 5 seconds of faux, (my limit) and saw Mort Kondrake state that war critics and democrats are coming close to providing aid and comfort to the enemy by questioning Bush. Dear God...what has this country come to?

[valerief]

1. Bike riders demoralize oil execs and thin people demoralize Splenda execs

Whatcha gonna do? Not everyone can have a popular war. Bush should take it like a man, a rich man, not a blown up and left for dead poor man.

[Neocondriac]

2. Ever get the impression....

that the a prize type wheel in the West Wing and it's spun daily and the topic of the day is attained.?....it just doesn't have "lose a turn" or "bankrupt"

[sendero]

3. What they mean is..

... it demoralizes the idiots who started the war.

[readmylips]

4. If you're not with us, you're with the enemy...whatever that goes...

How long are we going to allow these bastards to continue hiding behind our innocent troops? Yesterday, when I saw Cheney at Arlington moking in your face, placing that wreath on the tomb, I got on my knees and said 100 Hail Marys. I wanted that man vanished for life. That was the most go fuck yourself, in your face, this dirty bastard inhumane piece of shit heartless man gave us.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

5. Someone should use a hypothetical situation (like the other side tries

to do re torture). In addition to pointing out how silent and supportive the repubs were of Clinton during Kosovo. :sarcasm:

Just to hit the one point about demoralizing the troops, or being unpatriotic, we could pretend that:

President Average took the USA to war in Slovoark to retaliate for an attack on some US military aircraft.

Later it becomes apparent to everyone that Slovoark wasn't responsible for the attacks, and our attack on them has made our status in the eyes of the planet much less.

It has also continued to mobilize more attacks on the US, to create new terrorists in Slovoark and to draw other terrorists into Slovoark.

What would be the patriotic thing to do then? Nobody speak up and we continue this flawed policy, or try to correct course?

PS Of course it is more likely Rush is demoralizing the troops.

Also there is that little thing called free speech, and if you discourage it at critical times in our nation's history then you not only take away that right. You also don't take advantage of the many resources that could provide insight, ideas, strategies.

My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.

[ClassWarrior]

6. War critics ARE the troops, among others. NONE of the enlisted I know...

...has anything good to say about the Bush** quagmire.

NGU.

[OnyxCollie]

7. "They hate us for our freedoms."

That's the overly simplified and highly disingenuous motivation * gave for the reason why terrorists attack. Well, if someone were to stand on the corner and declare, "President Bush twisted intelligence to lead the US into war, wrapping himself in the guise of patriotism to squelch any dissent." then that person by *'s reasoning is a terrorist ("You're either with us or you're with the terrorists.") so maybe there is some validity to that fucked-up line of thought. :sarcasm:

[ClassWarrior]

8. So Faux thinks the troops are too stupid to think for themselves?

NGU.

[Wapsie B]

9. This spin is just Vietnam v2.0.

The righties have never forgiven Liberals for costing them a glorious victory in SE Asia. That deep-seated hatred is one reason why chimpy could be molesting young boys on TV and his core supporters would not think a thing of it.

[gratuitous]

10. We clearly need tougher troops

I mean, I've taken an incredible amount of abuse and discouragement from this criminal administration. But I get up every day, determined to get these corrupt bastards out of office. And I'm a limp-wristed, weak-kneed pacifist panty-waist.

Hard to believe that I can hold up better than our troops, but the President said as much, so it must be true.

[Neil Lisst]

11. In other words, citizens talking about the wisdom of the war ...

... are making the soldiers less able to fight?

Yeah, right. And when I change my socks, the Astros lose.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. Regarding this. Clark on Scarborough, when Iraq War was still "popular":

CLARK ON SCARBOROUGH 9/11/03

SCARBOROUGH: General, you, of course, sir, have served this country proudly in times of war, in times of peace. I know you were listening to General Al Haig’s words earlier about the importance of everybody lining up and supporting the president in a time of war. Do you take issue with anything he said?


CLARK: Well, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with dissent. In fact, I think it’s important in time of war. It’s one of the things I fought for during the Vietnam War.

I fought for my people who were in uniform over there serving their country. But I also fought for the right of people to take to the streets and protest that war, because I don’t think you can stop democracy because the country is under challenge. When the country is under challenge, I think you need democracy. You need to hold on to your fundamental values even more strongly.

If you take the position that General Haig gave-and I have the greatest respect and admiration for General Haig-he was my boss. And I learned a tremendous amount from him. And I think he has been a fantastic leader and made a great contribution, and still making it to this country.

But that having been said, I just couldn’t accept the idea that, if you have a different idea, you can’t express it publicly, because that leaves all of the authority and all of the challenge within the administration. Does it mean there shouldn’t be an election when there’s a war? And if it’s a war of indefinite duration, should we give up our democracy?

Look, we did this during 2002 in the election. We went into and supported a congressional resolution to go into Iraq. I was one of the skeptics. I doubted. I couldn’t quite see the evidence that compelled it. But, OK, we all went along with it. It turns out that there wasn’t an imminent threat. At least, no evidence has been produced to suggest that. It turns out that the operation was not planned effectively. It turns out that dissent, questioning, open challenge, would have produced a stronger, more effective operation, might have saved lives, would have certainly saved our fortune, and would have helped this country to be successful.

And so I think the dissent and criticism can have a very constructive purpose. And, indeed, it’s essential in a democracy to do that.

edited for one typo

[bluedog]

13. hypocrisy. throw these back in their lying faces

Daily Kos

Why did they hate America?
snip
*

********Why did they second-guess our commitment to freedom from genocide and demand that we cut and run?*********

"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."

-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)


"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99



"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)



"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."

-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush



****8Why did they demoralize our brave men and women in uniform?***

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)



"You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo."

-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99



"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years"

-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)



"I'm on the Senate Intelligence Committee, so you can trust me and believe me when I say we're running out of cruise missles. I can't tell you exactly how many we have left, for security reasons, but we're almost out of cruise missles."

-Senator Inhofe (R-OK)



"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)



"I don't know that Milosevic will ever raise a white flag"

-Senator Don Nickles (R-OK)



"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99



********Why didn't they support our president in a time of war?*****

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)



"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem."

-Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)



"The two powers that have ICBMs that can reach the United States are Russia and China. Here we go in. We're taking on not just Milosevic. We can't just say, 'that little guy, we can whip him.' We have these two other powers that have missiles that can reach us, and we have zero defense thanks to this president."

-Senator James Inhofe (R-OK)



"You can support the troops but not the president"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)



"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)



For us to call this a victory and to commend the President of the United States as the Commander in Chief showing great leadership in Operation Allied Force is a farce"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)



******Why did they blame America first?**********

Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world. The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly."

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)



"Once the bombing commenced, I think then Milosevic unleashed his forces, and then that's when the slaughtering and the massive ethnic cleansing really started"

-Senator Don Nickles (R-OK)



"Clinton's bombing campaign has caused all of these problems to explode"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)



"America has no vital interest in whose flag flies over Kosovo's capital, and no right to attack and kill Serb soldiers fighting on their own soil to preserve the territorial integrity of their own country"

-Pat Buchanan (R)



"These international war criminals were led by Gen. Wesley Clark ... who clicked his shiny heels for the commander-in-grief, Bill Clinton."

-Michael Savage



"This has been an unmitigated disaster ... Ask the Chinese embassy. Ask all the people in Belgrade that we've killed. Ask the refugees that we've killed. Ask the people in nursing homes. Ask the people in hospitals."

-Representative Joe Scarborough (R-FL)



"It is a remarkable spectacle to see the Clinton Administration and NATO taking over from the Soviet Union the role of sponsoring "wars of national liberation."

-Representative Helen Chenoweth (R-ID)




"By the order to launch air strikes against Serbia, NATO and President Clinton have entered uncharted territory in mankind's history. Not even Hitler's grab of the Sudetenland in the 1930s, which eventually led to WW II, ranks as a comparable travesty. For, there are no American interests whatsoever that the NATO bombing will either help, or protect; only needless risks to which it exposes the American soldiers and assets, not to mention the victims on the ground in Serbia."

-Bob Djurdjevic, founder of Truth in Media

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/18/161016/461


and this

More from WaPo article

Senator McCain from a WaPo article that quotes Bush in the diary: But McCain, a former Navy pilot and prisoner of war in Vietnam, joined other Republicans in denouncing what he called the administration's lack of an "exit strategy" in Kosovo and said he opposes deploying U.S. ground troops unless they are peacekeepers as part of a solid pact to end the fighting. "It's terribly frustrating that there's no endgame here," he said in a telephone interview. "If the bombing doesn't work, what then? The administration will not answer that question. There's no Plan B."

Patrick J. Buchanan, seeking the GOP nomination for the third time, accused Clinton of preparing to launch "an illegal, presidential war" as part of "an incoherent foreign policy."