Keep supporting your candidate - but be prepared to FALL IN LINE!

[DoctorMyEyes]

I'm getting really sick of reading all these "I'll support this candidate - but not that one" - "I'll never vote for 'so and so'" posts.

Go ahead and support your candidate NOW - during the primaries and caucuses - but PLEASE - stop saying that you won't support WHOEVER the Dem nominee is.

It just sounds childish, petulant and worst of all foolish.

If you're not prepared to "fall in line" with whoever gets the nomination you might as well get prepared for another four years of Bush.

Eye on the ball, people!

[MercutioATC]

1. Agreed. ABB in the general election.

[HFishbine]

2. Aye, Aye Comrade

You are coming in loud and clear. Too clear.

[Democrats unite]

3. I will not support who I don't want to,,,

Until someone receives the nomination!

[Walt Starr]

4. I'm ABB

Anybody But Bonesmen.

I draw the line at Kerry.

[Bozola]

5. To paraphrase Commander Bunnypants...

"Either you're with us, or you're with Bunnypants"

There is no middle ground in this next election. Whomever gets the nomination, they WILL get my vote and support. No question.

[uberotto]

6. I love it when...

people who can't see past the end of their own nose, take the time to share with the rest of us their great insights into how the world works.

People with short term goals:
"Keep Your Eye on the Ball"

People with long term goals:
"Keep Your Eye on the Prize"

[Jim Sagle]

7. Mind your own business.

[rucky]

8. Right message...wrong approach

most of the "I won't vote"rs are bluffing - but read between the lines. If we weren't up against the wost president ever - and he actually has a chance to win - what would your reasons be for all of us to support the nominee?

Even when we pull together & kick Bush out of office, there's still some healing to be done in the party. Part of it comes from the "sit down & shut up" attitude that drove many people to Nader in 2000, and have turned many more off from going to the polls at all. Most of the Nader people learned their lesson after that - but there was another lesson to be learned: Don't take the progressives for granted. Did you get that message?

[DoctorMyEyes]

10. I got the message loud and clear

three years ago.

Did you get the message - that if you sit around and pout you lose?

The advantage that the Republicans have on us is that we actually HAVE a big tent. Progressives, Liberals, Democrats ARE diverse. If we all don't figure out for once in our lives, just this one time we all NEED to row in the same direction we're ALL going to be shit out of luck.

We can go back to fighting amongst ourselves and making up after we win. But, right now all three branches of our government are controled by the right - and the most dangerous faction of the right is at the helm.

Changing that is my first priority. If it isn't yours or any other so-called liberal you're just not paying close enough attention.

(btw - this post isn't all directly to rucky - it's to everyone in this thread who has disagreed.)

[CivilRightsNow]

9. No thanks.

Ill vote for Bush before willingly pushing the party over to the right with Clark. ABB&C, that's my motto ;)

[jsw_81]

11. Absolutely

When it's time for battle against Bush this fall, we need to be UNITED or we're going to lose.

[creativelcro]

12. The more you push with the moralistic BS and the more

I know I'll vote for Bush is Kerry wins.

[progressiverealist]

13. seriously? You are a Dean supporter and you will go with George W. Bush

if Kerry is the nominee?


Really? Vote for Bush?

[Atlant]

28. Perhaps they'll vote for an actual progressive...

Perhaps they'll vote for an actual progressive, assuming there's
one to be found.

I know I will. Whether or not there is a "D" after there name
is no longer of any consequence to me. The "D"s need some
radical transformation, and if 2004 provides the motivation
for this radical transformation, so be it.

Atlant

[DoctorMyEyes]

14. well that's pretty pathetic

and just what I'm talking about!

I happen to be a DEAN supporter. But, what does that matter?

You would vote for GWB because you didn't like a comment made by some anonymous poster on DU???

Then it is true - people get the government they deserve.

[Piperay]

17. Well

I hope you are not serious about that. :wow: :-(

[Dark Star]

40. Read this and weep:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=231894&mesg_id=231894

...just one more example of not understanding how much a difference in the judiciary and the Patriot Act and healthcare etc etc if we don't get Bush out...

[jsw_81]

22. Sad

Keep in mind that Dean himself said that he will support the Democratic nominee. Why won't you?

[Walt Starr]

33. We are not robots blindly following Dean

We want real reform in government. If the Democratic Party will not provide that, it does not deserve our vote.

[DoctorMyEyes]

15. and while I'm at it

I also want to say that just because I don't post here all that frequently doesn't mean that I don't read DU everyday.

Unlike many of the people that I see here happy to fight amongst themselves with other Dems I spend the bulk of my posting time fighting with and attempting to enlighten Bush supporters.

If you haven't left DU in a while and seen what we're up against you owe it to yourself to get out there and see the disconnect.

The enemy is not here people - it's "out there"!

[Piperay]

16. I agree but

my main complaint is with those who expect me to 'fall in line' immediately with the 'flavor' of the week (basically whoever the media has chosen at the time). I will support ANY Democrat who gets the nomination, once they GET the nomination.

[DoctorMyEyes]

18. Thank you Piperay!

I'm so glad that you "get it"!

I wasn't telling anyone to endorse the "flavor of the week" (that's a good one - mind if I use it?) I think now is the time for everyone to continue to rally behind whichever candidate they like best.

Just please..... please! Stop with all the "I won't vote for your guy in the general election" crap.

We've ALL got to be prepared to come together behind whoever gets the nomination and all of this inside cannibalism going on is not helping matters at all.

[mmonk]

19. I'll support the eventual nominee

but if I disagree with that candidate on some major issues, I will not be silent. I will actively work for political orgnizations that work at addressing my concerns. And if I can't give my full trust to certain government policies, I will work on the issues as long as it takes.

[mmonk]

20. And that includes criticising that nominee if need be.

[Sam Lowry]

21. You're very wise

ABD:

[Cheswick2.0]

23. how are you going to make me?

These loyalty oath threads are foolish.

[rpf113]

24. I'm with you DoctorMyEyes

I don't care if our candidate is Sparky the Cocker Spaniel. He'll get my vote.

[bowens43]

25. What's foolish is voting for someone you believe to be bad for the party

and the country. I will certainly NOT vote for someone just because he has a (D) next to his name on the ballot. I will NOT fall in line just to get bush out of office. I sincerely believe that there are worse things then four more years of bush. I am not willing to compromise principle for a win. I would support most of the current nominees in the general election, but not all. If you think integrity is childish, so be it, but I disagree.

[CWebster]

26. What our own party did to lock Dean out

Will be nothing compared what the Republicans will do to the present annoited frontrunner.

If they don't stand behind our best, why should we stand behind their worst? Sooner or later, there will be a breech of faith and a loss of confidence in the Democratic party's course.

[Atlant]

29. I'm fairly certain that 2004 represents this breach.

I'm fairly certain that 2004 represents this breach.
I know that, for me, it's the culmination of a process
that began in 2000, accelerated noticeably in 2002 when
Democrats ran screaming from anything that resembled an
actual position on anything, and finished in 2004 when
the Democrats first attacked my candidate's positions
and now are trying to adopt many of them.

I'm about done supporting Democrats as a class. I may
still support Democratic individuals, but you can be
damned sure each on of them will have to earn my vote.

Atlant

[jumptheshadow]

42. Here's where the Dean supporters with backbone step in

And you say, "We are deeply committed to the rights of the GLBT community. We are outraged by the SOTU speech and by the Republicans' scapegoating of the GLBT community. We are so supportive of the rights of the GLBT community that we pledge to support the most viable opponent to Bush."

Time to step up, Dean supporters. Do you have the sincere commitment to gay rights? Will you stand up for gay rights when your vote would mean so much and we are facing such a historic election? Do you have the guts to ask your fellow Dean supporters to do the same thing?

If none of you respond positively, then don't have the temerity to ask gay voters to support your candidate.

[drfemoe]

32. "sooner" is my guess .. eom

[1floridademocrat]

27. I'll vote

for whomever the democratic nominee is..

But I'll be honest, if its Kerry I won't be overly excited by it.. like.. at all.

[Monte Carlo]

30. We must live together as brothers and sisters, or die alone as fools.

That's what MLK's widow said once, and it stuck with me. Ben Franklin said something similar - we must hang together, or we will assuredly all hang seperately.

[Atlant]

31. Curiously enough, this didn't seem to apply when MY candidate was winning.

> We must live together as brothers and sisters, or die alone as fools.
> That's what MLK's widow said once, and it stuck with me. Ben Franklin
> said something similar - we must hang together, or we will assuredly
> all hang seperately.

Curiously enough, this didn't seem to apply when MY candidate was
winning. I wonder why it applies now?

Atlant

[Walt Starr]

34. Because our candidate is no longer winning

Savage us, put us down, then demand blind obedience to the sacrifical lamb.

2004 is going to get me to change my party of affiliation. I cann feel an Independence day coming, and not long at that.

I can sense myself becoming one of the undecideds everybody is after.

Maybe if I'm an undecided, the Democratic Party will take my thoughts seriously.

[Monte Carlo]

37. Oh, I think it did, but I can't speak for everyone.

It seems as true now as it has ever been, even if groups of DUers didn't recognize it.

[PATRICK]

35. A little more perspective

Very hard when feeling the hurt or the worry that the "best" did not win.

Overall, in the past, the alternatives to the eventual choice, in critical hindsight, would not have fared better. They also lost the primaries in essence all on their own whatever tricks, gimmicks, press tags or machines were involved. The media has most often been dead wrong despite their influence on votes. Dirty tricks often expose critical vulnerability that might have been found eventually. Muskie is perhaps a debatable point there but I don't think Muskie ever was that great a threat to Nixon.

The threat to Bush is primarily a united Democratic Party. Cripes, even Dukakis almost won and other candidates had far easier times despite their flaws. The second thing is that our choices are superior to those of the past, especially from a liberal point of view. Maybe you need perspective for that since the rhetoric has changed over the years.

It's up to the people. Personally speaking there is danger from MY point of preference that Edwards will not be allowed to prove himself
in a window of Kerry peaking. That would be unlike self-destruction or insufficiency and more like simply getting all the other stuff against you at the wrong time. However, that is how his campaign was crafted from the start so he has not been ambushed or betrayed. He simply was poised for the right moments which had to fall into line just so. Kerry on the other hand has been steadfast through the worst, first negating his advantages then remaking them, including the machinery.

Clark too was poised for openings. I think the reversal between Dean and Kerry were always such that the least likely scenario was for both to simply knock each other out, but the present outcome only looks believable in hindsight.

For Edwards to get the maximum proof of his "superiority" he has to overcome what he does not have, must reach the people and elicit their votes. If he or Clark really is going to fall decisively short we could argue all we want, but voters usually choose the strongest candidate offered.

As for Dean, whom I was trying to defend, the disturbing disconnect between himself and his campaign magnified by slips might have proved fatal in any primary season. His assault on the establishment mindset did not breach the walls and attracted the negative reaction common to all who try to fight cognitive dissonance. It was a nice try and well worth the fight, drawing the primaries I think into more realistic and combative focus considering our peril.

Then too, this contest format for deciding who is the best candidate and/or the best President seems insane or unfair. Money and media contributes heavily to that though it cannot, in our party at least, guarantee dominance. Party "bosses" are less effective than the erring media, sometimes laughably so. As a party, someone needs to look at serious reform, top to bottom of the process with an eye to democracy, before which all the activist leadership elites quail. This is one reason we need more effective third parties.

For now, if tempted by passion or idealism to look at negatives, look first at Bush. Why do we expect so much universal perfection from Democrats? Those are internal affairs to be tooled not run away from. We are our own deliverers. Our candidates are very good in all categories. We are up against a stacked deck already. Don't make it worse.

[Hep]

36. Eye on what ball, people?

Defeating Bush is one thing, but that's not the ball we need to keep our eye on. Perhaps it's not the ONLY ball we need to keep our eye on.

I'm voting straight ticket D, if not only because I don't want to have to put an actual mark next to any name other than Dean.

[Walt Starr]

38. It's prestidigitation

Keep you eye on this anti-Bush ball here that I'm holding up in my right hand for everybody to see...

so you don't see this other ball I'm handing over to the corporations with my left hand out of sight.

[MadHound]

39. And who the hell are you to be lecturing me like a child?

Your little rant comes across as arrogant and condesending at best. I'm sorry, I've worked, bled and sweated for the Dems for over thirty years now, and yet my concerns and fears have been kicked to the curb by the very party I've sacrificed for. It seems that the only time that the party wishes to deal with their base of progressives and liberals is when they need our votes. The mantra is alway that of "who else are you going to vote for?" or better yet, "if you vote third party, hell on earth is going to come about" or "we'll deal with our internal problems once we get X out of office" and then promptly forget us. Well tough shit my friend, these excuses and pleas are going to be falling on increasingly deaf ears.

Look, I've lived through Nixon, Reagan, and Bush I. Bush II, while as bad as these predecessor is no worse than them. I've survived such conservative regimes before, I'll survive them again. Your boogie man holds no fear over me. What I am more concerned about is the fact that the Democratic Party has become just as disgusting as the 'Pugs, whoring themselves out to whichever corporation is willing to pay the most money. Explain to me how this is different from the 'Pugs. You have the same corporate masters calling the shots no matter whether a Dem or 'Pug is in office. These two parties don't matter any more, because they are quickly becoming one.

I'm working for a real change in the world, and the corporate whores in the Dem party aren't going to provide it. The only Dem candidate that I actively support is Kucinich, and of course the corporate whores in the DLC/DNC aren't supporting him because he takes no corporate money, hence he isn't under corporate control. Other than that, well you can toss the rest out the window for all I care. I tell you what, I'll vote for ANY Dem candidate who doesn't take corporate money, but pigs will fly before that happens.

And if the Democratic Party falls because of this, good riddance to bad rubbish. They really don't deserve to survive. How can you support a party that supports virtually everything you are morally opposed to? Like the Patriot Act, or media conglomeration, or the IWR, or welfare "reform". Let the sky fall, it is time for a real change in this country, and the Dems are too corrupted to provide it.

So you can take your little rant and put it back in your pocket, for it holds no power or threat over me. I will be voting for the person whom I think will make the best President this fall, and it won't be the corporate whores from either the Dems or 'Pugs, it will be for the Greens, since they take no corporate cash. If that means four more years of Bushco, so be it, but at least it won't be for an equally corrupt corporate whore that is dressed up in progressive clothing. At least with Bush you know what you're up against, there is no deception there. Unfortunately with the Dems they try to hide their corruption, try to decieve one with lies and pretty speeches. Then like Clinton, once they are in office they simply continue with their masters' bidding. To hell with that, I won't be fooled anymore. And if it means the Democratic Party collapses, all the better, for then the Greens can take over and REAL change can be brought about, not faux change brought about by smarmy corporate whores.

[lastliberalintexas]

41. Bravo!

Excellent post- and I couldn't agree more. Though I support Dean or Dennis, the sentiment you expressed is exactly how I feel, particularly that this year is a culmination of things- the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. I am so very tired of being threatened into voting one way, rather than my vote being earned.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. God, yet another loyalty oath from the fearful.

"fall in line", "eye on the ball", sounds like a junior high PE class.

Despite bush and the DLC, we get to vote the way we want. I for one am voting anti-war, anti-bush, and anti-war supporters.