We all love BIll Clinton. Right? Then why would we not want him back in t

[patricia92243]

the WH via Hillary? I don't understand the idea of love Bill and hate Hillary.

I am NOT talking about people who, understandably, don't think it is a good idea for families to start dynasties. That is a whole other subject.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. Hilary is not Bill

even though they are married, they don't have the same personality, soul, or qualities... or maybe even political viewls.

[cornermouse]

14. Agree.

Hillary is not Bill. She is her own person and as such could not and should not be expected to do the same things Bill did.

[Pinko]

33. You're right

She's to his left.



(Based on http://www.issues2000.org/Bill_Clinton.htm and http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm)

[carolinalady]

41. Disagree--after reading his book, I am more convinced than

ever that they are a "unit" when it comes to their careers. I believe he is very involved in all the decisions she makes as she was when he was in office.

[KG]

2. no. we don't all love bill clinton.

[bemildred]

34. Second that. nt

[Mairead]

35. third that

[Al-CIAda]

40. fourth that. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

46. Hey, I love Bill Clinton.

As do many, many others. It is the leftie non-Dems that don't love him, that opinion demonstrated in more numbers here than exist proportionately out there. I don't think he deserves the gratuitous trashing he gets here; he gets enough from the Republicans.

[Andromeda]

52. Thanks for that, AK...

The left-wing non-Democrats don't like Bill because he didn't do what they wanted him to do. If Bill was Jesus Christ himself they'd still trash him.

Most people in the country like and admire him except, as you said, the disproportionate numbers of haters here.

I believe Bill Clinton will go down as one of the greatest presidents of the the 20th century.

[Moochy]

59. I love bill clinton

especially given his charisma and his personality. I can also be critical of some of the Clinton's policies. Though around here, He gets the licks he deserves, IMO. I'm not so into Hilary, her hawkishness over Iraq is a major complaint that can't be shrugged off because of some wistful love of the Clintons.

They didnt call him a "new" democrat for nothing. I think many "non-leftie" dems who dont simply worship at the altar of personality can distinguish the man from his less progressive policies, but maybe not.

Maybe some feel it's love both Clintons or you are a freeper or a "commie pinko",

Oh and By the way, your favorite band sucks, my favorite band Rocks!!

:)

[snowbear]

3. Because patricia.... he can't get there from here...

..Or let's see.. ..the amount of anti-Hillary states (like 48 out of 50) would prevent him from getting there.

You know what I mean.. http://eliteleague.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/lol!.gif

[Arkana]

4. Not everyone loves Bill Clinton.

And I certainly will not vote for Hillary in the primaries--she'd get my vote in the general election, but not in the primaries.

[snowbear]

5. Although it would make for some great Jay Leno monologues!

He'd LOVE it!! http://eliteleague.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/lol!.gif

[still_one]

6. it is very simple

she wants more troops in Iraq

she thinks we need to finish the job

We are in the middle of a civil war, forget it

and I will NOT vote for her if she gets the nomination

From a practical stand point, why don't we put up someone who can win?

There is a reason the repukes want her. It will unify their base

Incidently, NAFTA hurt a lot of people

[IndianaGreen]

7. Plan Colombia, SOA, Balkans, Iraq, DOMA, NAFTA...

Should I go on? The only reason we liked Big Dog is that we hated Newt more.

[ClintonTyree]

12. Those things I can never forgive Clinton for.........

especially NAFTA. Sure, I liked Clinton, he was a hell of a statesman and he knew how to connect with people from all walks of life. He was far from perfect and I think the word "love" isn't the word we're looking for when describing him.
Hillary? :shrug: She's one of my Senators but I don't agree with a lot of things that come from her mouth. She's DLC all the way (just like Bill) and that doesn't sit well with me. We don't need another Corporate President from either party.

[mitchum]

16. Yes, a perfect example of "the lesser of two evils"...

thy name is Clinton

[Andromeda]

53. Here's where we part company...

The only one in the group you mentioned that I don't agree with is NAFTA. The original concept was good but even Clinton himself said that he didn't like NAFTA in it's present form. He said there weren't enough protections for workers and that it should be revised.

Now that we have a Bush, nothing will be done about it until the next Democrat is elected.

[ThePopulist]

8. Not all of us love Bill

While I think he was a capable president when it came to many various issues the man had a lot of personal baggage and problems and that seriously impeded his judgement and presidency. He was a human and a politican. 2 things I accept when I judge him and his actions.

As for Hillary: that woman scares the holy shit out of me. I can see her intentions in her eyes. That woman wants power and nothing else. I honestly think she cares nothing for the American people. I mean hell, she's from Chicago originally and then lived in Arkansas and then Washington. She wasn't even from New York and then she ran for Senator there - why?? Most people know the answer: it's a springboard to the presidency. She's in this for herself only and I urge all to oppose her.

[MuseRider]

9. Nope, sorry.

I never loved Bill Clinton as president but I do respect him.

I also respect Hillary but I would most likely not love her as president.

[stilpist]

10. Sorta kinda.

I don't particularly love Bill Clinton. I love that his being in office meant that no Republican was in office. I most especially love how the very thought of him makes conservatives turn purple and look like they're going to explode.

But his presidency hurt the Democratic party. And I would have very much preferred a liberal Democrat in the White House.

I have no ill will toward Hillary, buy I don't believe that she can win the predidency in 2008, and I very much want a Democrat to be the winner in 2008. Even if I'm wrong about that, I'd much prefer that the Democrat be a liberal.

[Andromeda]

30. A liberal Democrat would never have been...

elected. Take it to the bank.

How did his presidency "hurt" the Democratic party. Bill Clinton was the best thing to hit the Democratic party since Jiffy hit peanut butter.

Again, a liberal Democrat will not be elected to the presidency. It just won't happen.

[enough already]

38. How did he hurt the party?

When he left office, we had practically nothing (WH, House, Senate, governorships) left. I hold him at least partially responsible for losing it all due to his self serving triangulation to the right bullshit.

[Andromeda]

54. That wasn't his fault.

If you had paid attention to the dynamics that had been going on for MONTHS before Bill Clinton had even gotten the nomination you would known that the plans to "get" Bill Clinton" were already in the works.

Losing the Senate and the House were just the beginning of the Repug's plans to destroy Bill and the Democratic party. The Republicans scared the public to death by telling them the Clinton health care plan would prevent them from seeing their own doctors---among other shit. The right-wing fundies galvanized forces in that election and unfortunately the Democrats were asleep at the helm.

You can't blame that on Bill Clinton. He was the ONLY Democrat that had the guts to stand up to the Republicans. And he BEAT them!

[enough already]

61. The hell it wasn't his fault

He sold out to the pukes on healthcare, "free" trade, gays in the military. He most certainly was partly responsible for losing it all.

[tx_dem41]

11. "Via Hillary"?!?

What makes you think that Hillary isn't capable of governing on her own???

[mitchum]

18. I think that the George and Lurleen Wallace gambit will be used as...

a selling point for Hillary Clinton's candidacy.
However, she IS quite capable of being her "own" corporate approved candidate.

[HeeBGBz]

13. I don't really trust either one any more

Sorry. I think Poppy Bush did a liberalectomy on Bill when they started hanging out together. Somewhere around the time when he slept on the floor and Poppy had the bed...

[mitchum]

15. I don't want EITHER one of them

I want a REAL Democrat

[MasonJar]

17. Who's against Hillary? I am going to work my buns off for whom-

ever the dems choose. If Hillary can win, I'm all for her. No one who is democratic is going to win until the voting fraud is addressed and how will we ever correct the voting fiasco with the pugs in power? They have nada compunction about cheating.

[Andromeda]

32. Now you're talking!

It won't matter who we run if the voting machines are rigged.

[davidwparker]

19. NAFTA. I still have my job, but others do not.

[Joe Chi Minh]

20. After all this devastation, the country needs nothing less than

a New Deal. It's possible that with the changed circumstances, they might work towards it. I'm sure they really feel for the people.

However, Bill only knows how to work with Big Business, ultimately deferring to them in terms of the fundamentals. Consequently, it would be taking an extraordinary risk, and a needless one, with John Kerry and John Edwards, well-prepared to get a grip of the outrageous excesses of corporatism, which, through endless dishonesty and chicanery have proliferated so shamelessly.

Big Business needs to serve the country on which it currently battens, as well providing a good income for its directors and shareholders. Left to their own devices, the large corporations are corporate psychopaths, ("the mystical body of the devil", one might call them), without the least shred of loyalty to their country, its people, or to anyone other than their CEOs and directors.

Incidentally, talking about psychopaths, a lad in the UK who killed his mother and father with a hammer and a kitchen knife, said that he only hit them "with the soft side" of the hammer, apparently meaning the steel block, rather than the claw. And that he only hit her lightly with the knife (nine times...), and was surprised how far it went in. Gruesomely laughable, but not at all unreminiscent of our politicians with their "downsizing", "rationalisation" and a host of other euphemisms for criminal treachery against the nation.

[OneBlueSky]

21. bottom line . . . Hillary can't win . . .

besides, not all of us love Bill . . . he was certainly better than Bush, but some of his policies (e.g. globalisation) are wreaking havoc on our nation . . .

[skipos]

22. Because Hillary WON'T WIN. ABH for the 08 nomination!

and lets get a nominee from a red state that they can win.
We shouldn't want another only-win-the-Northeast-and-west-coast candidate.

[Orangepeel]

23. I have nothing against H, but I don't believe B would really run the show

in fact, I think that notion is sexist. My husband doesn't do my job for me, and wouldn't, even if we were in the same field. Although our values are consistent, we are two separate people with separate brains and individual opinions. I'm sure that Hillary and Bill are the same way.

[Dhampir Kampf]

24. One problem

Sure, Hillary might be 'ok'. But, the fact is, no republican..even if they're turning on Bush, would vote for her. Hell, I'm sure OVER 1/3 democrats wouldn't even vote for her.

It's not that I don't want her because of her views, I don't want her because I want a canidate that can actually win. If Kerry can be beaten by Bush, then Hillary would lose to a republican by a landslide.

Warner/Edwards, '08

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. We don't all love Bill Clinton

He was better than the Bushboy, but that doesn't mean I loved him. Not at all. In fact, I was very disappointed in him.

[guidod]

26. More bad

than good with Bill but you can't argue with the 523 billion dollar surplus we had.

[doc03]

27. We don't all love Bill Clinton. After all the accusations

made by people like Limbaugh he gave them the license to say "I told you so" after his Monica affair. We would be into the second Gore term if it wasn't for Clinton disgracing the office of the Presidency. Another good reason NAFTA!

[buddysmellgood]

28. What's so great about Hillary?

[AmericanDream]

29. I DON'T love Bill Clinton... I actually like Hillary better...

[Andromeda]

31. Patricia, you just gave an opening

for all the Clinton-haters to take their shots at Bill and Hillary.

Bill Clinton did more for America than any Democrat has done since FDR. I liked JFK too but he didn't get a chance to serve out his presidency.

All of you naysayers out there who hate Bill, take a look at what we have now and still say you hate Bill Clinton. Clinton made some mistakes but what president doesn't? All in all he did a pretty good job.

The thing that makes William Jefferson Clinton better than most is that HE REALLY LOVES THIS COUNTRY AND THE PEOPLE IN IT. He's not phony and he has a generous heart. He's an imperfect human being but most people forgave him for Monica.

The fact that Bill can string together more than ten words and make SENSE should be enough to convince you but, alas, I'm probably talking to the freekin' wall.

[Tarc]

37. I like the fact that he was a president to ALL...

And not just 51% of the countrym as Dubya is. Clinton went "across the aisle" many times to get things done, that is the mark of a great president, one that can compromise when needed but know when to stand firm when necessary.

[Andromeda]

51. Yes, Tarc...

and when he did reach out he got his hand bitten by the Republicans.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Tarc]

62. At times, yes

But it is the sentiment that is important. When/If we take back the White House in `08, it is likely that one or both sides of COngress will still be in Republican hands. Whoever is president will have to make a concerted effort to reach across to moderate Republicans in order to get things done.

[enough already]

36. She doesn't have 1% of political skills

She can't win.

[Clark2008]

39. Because A.) She's not Bill and B.) She won't win anyway.

Come to a red state - or even a purplish-red one - and you'll figure it out.

[TriMetFan]

42. Then I think it is time for the U.S. to be split into

3 pieces. I can't handle the south or mid west of thinking any longer. Why dislike Bill or Hillary?

1. I rather have a man in the White House who is getting his dick sucked and doing some kind of good for our Nation then what we have right now. I would take those Clinton years any time.

2. No matter which Democratic wins the White House in 2008, they will have to put more troops in Iraq unless the Democratic win everything in 2006 then still they will have to put fresh troops in Iraq to start getting the old troops out. This mess that Dick-head Bush put us in will not be as simple as just saying we are out of here.

[Clark2008]

44. What a silly notion.

You sound like Bush - a divider.

The South and the Mid-West are as much a part of this country as the North and West coasts.

What we need to be striving to do is nominate a liberal who people think is a moderate, not a moderate who people think is a liberal. That would win over a few Southern and mid-Western states and then, upon that person governing, these people would learn in real time that what is being spewed at them on their Reich-wing radio about liberals isn't true.

It takes a leader to cut through the crap.

I don't have a problem with Hillary, but the 15 years of Republican hate mantra towards here hasn't won her any friends in the purple or red states. We need to overcome our media deficit to win an election.

[TriMetFan]

45. I'm not a divider. I'm just sick of the way the south and

mid-west are bring down the Nation. Now I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings, but that is the way I feel. I thought this was America that I lived in. Also I feel bad that there are so many good people stuck in those states. I was born and raised in Texas and I know how Southern Politics works. We in the North and West coast are having to fight to keep those wackos from taking over our parts of the Nation. I really think it is up to people like you to get the moderate republicans to change their minds about Hillary or any other Democratic in your states. You have your hands full and and like I said before The North and The West are having to fight the infection of the wacko Republicans. They have taken or are trying to take over our schools and other lower Political offices, just like they did in your states.
But going back to the fact that others are saying that Hillary said she would put more troops in Iraq, we will not be able to just pack up and leave. I don't care which Democratic wins in 2008, the mess in Iraq that Bush and thugs made will take sometime to clean up and who knows how long we will be stuck there. I just hope that who ever wins in 2008 gets NATO involved fast.

[Andromeda]

55. Bill and Hillary are good scapegoats,

for the crowd who likes to complain.

What you say makes sense. Just hope we can get out of Iraq before the next ice age.

[rman]

43. Wrong

He's not as bad as Bush, but that's easy, and not enough to make me love him.
Besides, i don't do guilt by association, nor do i do love by association. I judge people as individuals, not depending on who they're married with.

[AtomicKitten]

47. "not as bad as Bush"

I can hardly believe I'm reading that nonsense here at DU.

[rniel]

48. Right we don't all love Bill Clinton

Remember Nafta, Telecommunications deregulation

Despite those things he did steer the country in the right direction. But I don't love him.

[election_2004]

49. Because Hillary would cause massive downticket losses.....

...in the red states, and in many of the "purple" areas.

If the Democrats want to help Mary Landrieu and Tim Johnson lose their U.S. Senate seats - - then yes, by all means, sit back and allow the Dem establishment to coronate Hillary as the nominee.

If the Democratic Party wants to squander away several opportunities to pick up U.S. Senate seats in Oregon (Gordon Smith's), New Mexico (Domenici's probable retirement), Colorado (fundie Allard), Minnesota (Normy Coleman), Maine (Collins), and possibly Texas - - then run Hillary, and watch the U.S. Senate majority fall back into GOP clutches.

If Dems want to lose a handful of "swing" districts in the U.S. House of Representatives, where Republican opponents will run around chanting: "Hillary Clinton supports partial-birth abortion!" - - then Hillary is the woman for the job.

New Yorkers seem to be satisfied with Hillary Clinton as their U.S. Senator, and that's where she should stay.

[LittleClarkie]

50. While I'm not a big fan of ol' Hillary either, we can't let that shit go

with ANY of our candidates. They got Gore with a ton of distortions. Then they got Kerry. They try to make all our leading Dems into cartoons.

I wouldn't let the fear of RW talking points dictate who we put up, because they will come up with SOMETHING no matter who we come up with.

Don't forget they lie. We could put up Warner or another Southern Governor, and they will try to paint them as a dangerous Liberal. For pete's sake, they compared Murtha with freakin' Michael Moore. How ludicrous is THAT. And yet there you have it.

We need to be strong in standing up for WHOEVER the next candidate turns out to be.

[Andromeda]

56. I agree, LC...

Hillary isn't going to win everybody over. I like her but if others don't--well, they just don't I guess. I'm not sure who I'll support yet. But you'd better believe that I will stand up for whoever wins the nomination even if that person isn't the one I wanted.

It's just the name calling and the right-wing talking points that are repeated over and over again HERE at DU. I'm sick to death of it.

The Republicans will minimize, belittle and lie about ANY Democrat who runs for president. They will ALL be swift-boated in short order.

We have to be strong and united if we ever expect to win seats back in congress and the presidency.

[LittleClarkie]

57. Indeed, and often using the same damned words

I swear if I hear "flip flopper" one more time or how Kerry freakin' windsurfed. Who gives a tinker's damn! I live in Wisconsin. WE WINDSURF! And yet, would you call Wisconsin an elitist state? I think not.

I mean good grief. The Republicans never have far to go for the smear either. All they have to do is see what we are saying about each other and expand it out to their campaign. For Kerry, we saw flip flops. If Dean woulda made it, we would a seen waffles.

I'm sick of it too.

[LittleClarkie]

58. Eh, he'll do. What we love is the fact that he won

so much that we seem to think it's a template for winning every time. "We need a Southern Governor!" you'll hear it shouted.

But the team of that Southern Governor told our last candidate to support DOMA, and tried to get him to emphasize the economy when it was national security that was on everyone's mind.

They are not magic. What they did worked for their time and place. But this is not the 1990's.

[formernaderite]

60. actually we don't all love Bill....anymore

he lost me after his welfare reform bill....Hillary did basically the same thing when she supported the bankruptcy reform package....screw the little guy.
Sure, Bill had the charming persona...but beyond the fact the economy stewed along, I don't see where we gained any ground on policy ideas.
In fact...we lost ground to the republicans legislatively and electorally, because Bill triangulated on nearly everything.