Pathetic 25% approval rating for Democrats is not good news.

[Clarkie1]

Bush's Approval Rating
Falls Again, Poll Shows

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE
November 17, 2005

<snip>

And he's not alone. Cabinet members, Congressional leaders and both parties in Congress have also seen their ratings slip, with Democrats seeing one of the biggest dips in approval, the telephone poll of 1,011 U.S. adults shows.

<snip>

Only a quarter of Americans polled give Democrats a positive rating in the latest poll, compared with 31% in August, while Republicans' approval ratings fell to 27% from 32%...

-------------------------------------------------------------------

That's right folks, despite Bush's own approval rating dropping to 34%, the approval rating for Democrats is even worse. We can be thankful that America is finally seeing through Bush's lies and deceipt, but we still have a lot of work to do. Americans aren't just disgusted with the Republican Party, they're disgusted with the Democratic Party, too.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113216347138199155-5Z1Ri_om8ITUbV_jD2bx6maguMY_20061116.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top

[autorank]

1. The people need a message to approve...clear and to the point.

I know that Reid put together a great agenda for Senate action.

They should roll that out and also a DEMAND THAT THE OUTRAGEOUS BANKRUPTSY BILL BE REPEALED.

[leftstreet]

2. Don't tell anyone, but I'm more interested in who voted for that bill

...than who voted for Bush's Iraq Debacle.

Iraq was politics. The bankruptcy bill was about the lives of everyday Americans.

[autorank]

3. I think the bill is vital and some folks I like, well one, voted for it.

Pisses me off. What kind of a Democrat would vote for the MBNA's of the world and leave their constituents to rot. Well, the type that needs to raise funds from the MBNA's to tell their constituents what "common folk" they are. Like you, this one sticks in my mind and pisses me off.

[Lasher]

6. Roll Call Votes

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00044">S. 256 (Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005)

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll105.xml">H RES 211 RECORDED VOTE

[newswolf56]

7. Neither link works.

[Moochy]

9. Try this

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00044

Alphabetical by Senator Name
Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Allen (R-VA), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burns (R-MT), Yea
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Chafee (R-RI), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Not Voting
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Coleman (R-MN), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Corzine (D-NJ), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
Dayton (D-MN), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Yea
DeWine (R-OH), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Nay
Dole (R-NC), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Nay
Frist (R-TN), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Jeffords (I-VT), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Nay
Kerry (D-MA), Nay
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Nay
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Lieberman (D-CT), Nay
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Nay
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Nay
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Nay
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Nay
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Santorum (R-PA), Yea
Sarbanes (D-MD), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Nay
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Sununu (R-NH), Yea
Talent (R-MO), Yea
Thomas (R-WY), Yea
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Nay

[newswolf56]

10. Thank you. Can you find me a working link for the House vote too?

(I've asked my own Democratic senators and representatives for links on these and other votes. Their office staff -- including press people I deal with officially -- always say "yes" but then NEVER follow through. Thus the only such lists I ever see (other than the one you posted above) is when I am lucky enough to randomly stumble on the magic combination of words and keystrokes to access such material on-line -- a process so hopelessly complicated that when I am successful it is always an accident (and therefore never something I can reliably repeat). (I have found that Google is utterly useless on such quests.)

Such is the lot of a formidably skilled hard-copy researcher reduced to absolute helplessness by computerization. In fact I have no doubt that the near impossibility of finding such information online (combined with the fact it is now routinely suppressed by the corporate media) is precisely why the outrageous treachery of such votes occurs: the formerly prohibitive public scrutiny is ever more difficult -- rendered a thousand times worse by the ever-more-insurmountable obstacles imposed by the computer: an alleged facilitator that in fact is more often than not a prohibitive barrier -- and no doubt intentionally so.

In any case, now that I've ranted my rant, if you have a working link to the House vote too, I'd much appreciate that also. (And yes, I intend to do the work of assembling a list of the pseudo-Democrat class traitors who collaborated with the Republicans to re-impose indentured servitude on America -- do the work and post the list on DU.)

Thanks again.

[Lasher]

11. Here it is.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll105.xml

Sorry, that's not the first time I've screwed up using HTML tags.

[newswolf56]

13. Thank you!

[PassingFair]

37. Don't forget, some of our lovely DLC dems voted to let this

turkey out of committee, and then voted against it.
They had a "plan".

[nicknameless]

18. Self-deleted duplicate

[union_maid]

19. I agree completely

I don't blame those who voted for the IWR. Never did. I did blame the ones who continued to support the president's war when a not very bright child could see what he was up to, but if they've come around, that's all I need.

The bankruptcy bill was another matter. It still infuriates me. An e-mail back and forth with my Democratic congressman, Steve Israel left me very dissatisfied. He clearly didn't "get it" as far as the notion that Democrats are supposed to put the American people first and business second. I'm not asking them to be anti-business. Just put our concerns first. He agreed that some important safeguards weren't in the bill. My point was, even if you thought the bill was necessary, take care of the safeguards first. Refuse to vote for it until they're there. You might lose the vote but at least you've done what you could to defend your constituents. He never really addressed that.

When it comes to another person who represents me in Washington - Hillary - her office never did respond to concerns I had over things she's said about trade and outsourcing of jobs.

Democrats will succeed when they lead as champions of the average person. Being less bad for the average person than the GOP really isn't much of a message. Michael Moore is completely right about that.

[depakid]

32. Sounds like your rep really doesn't get it

The bankruptcy Bill WAS bad for business. It took disposable income from people who'd spread it around- and instead concentrated it among the credit card companies, banks and wealthy shareholders who aren't going to spend it in the community- much less in your district.

Either your guy isn't very bright, or he wasn't being straight with you. Maybe both.

There wasn't any good business reason to vote for this abomination.

[radio4progressives]

4. The only work that needs to be done is for these damn Democrats to

open their mouth and say what needed to be said for the past three freaking years. OUT OF IRAQ NOW.

period, end of story.

maybe the dems polls might start climbing up all on their own.

[cosmicone]

5. Lack of spine

Lack of spine is sometimes worse than the zeal of the republican crooks.

At least the republicans are acting from their deeply felt convictions however misguided and pernicious they may be.

Unless the democrats develop a spine and become outspoken proponents of progressive convictions, they have no long term hopes.

[sam sarrha]

27. the Spines are back-ordered since manufacture was outsourced to China

[OneBlueSky]

8. well, an objective observer would have to conclude that . . .

over most of the past five years, the Democrats have been nothing but doormats for the Republicans . . . so I can understand why their ratings are so low . . .

[izzie]

12. I think this is normal, look back at the House Check problem

Every one gets it when you have so many crooks in the place. GOP people hate to think it is just their side and Dem. see it as we can not be pure if all this is going on. So we just say they are all crooks. I think if I was in Congress I would think about retirement. Plus it is so good for them.

[Vinca]

14. This is what needs to be done.

ALL Democratic officials in Washington and in the state houses need to be gathered in one auditorium, handed a booklet of talking points and threatened with excommunication if they don't toe the party line. That's how the Republicans have been so successful at winning. No matter what happens, they back each other up. Democrats, to our credit, like to discuss issues and have differing opinions. That's fine, but it can only take place AFTER the election. A dishonest, but winning, plan.

[MrBenchley]

15. Of course that's according to the WSJ

which has a history of slanting this kind of stuff outrageously...

[depakid]

16. Even if you don't buy into a cheap, biased media poll

which, despite all the evidence, people who don't have any knowledge of statistics or quantitative methods still do here on DU- almost religiously (chalk up another victory for the Republican's 25 year war on education)- the fact remains that the Dems are widely perceived as cowardly, ineffective and standing for nothing.

And when you see DINO's like Biden and Lieberman every week on the talk shows as the standard bearers for the party, it's not hard to see why.

It's the DINO's and their style of thinking- not the Republicans- who are the biggest obstacle to the Dems ever regaining relevance in national politics.

So long as the Dems keep enabling them and legitimizing the far right's abusive policies- people aren't going to see much of a choice.

Republican lite is a losing strategy- 6 elections proves it- yet even now, many Dems still stubbornly cling to it. It almost seems as though they want to lose in 2006.

[dbt]

17. Democrats got that rating the Old-Fashioned Way:

They earned it.

(perhaps Old Fascist Way is more apt.)

:freak:
dbt
Remember New Orleans

[Toots]

20. I am not surprised in the least

We want to act Republican light then we should expect to be received as republican light, or does anyone here still believe we need to move more to the right??? Just because Democrats have not held majority position doesn't mean that they could not be an opposition party but noooo. They helped in getting every Republican bill and resolution passed and signed into law. Not one time have the Democrats united in opposition against the destructive forces of America...All of America has been witness to the goings on. IMO America should throw the entire lot out into the street and start fresh.

[1932]

21. Give them the name of a Democrat and that number will go higher.

[flpoljunkie]

22. Despite this, Democrats now hold huge lead in generic polling for 2006!

Also, an answer below to the question of why Democrats are polling as low or lower than the Republicans...

http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/11/17/135443/11

Voters are turning to Democrats as they turn away from Republicans. The first place one can find evidence of this was in the 2005 elections, where Democrats did very well across the country in actual elections. One would think that these results alone would have dispelled this myth, but apparently not.

The second location one can find evidence of this is on polls for the 2006 elections. Look for example, at Polling Report's new feature, a summary table of generic congressional ballot polls for 2006. Here are the results from the past month:

Poll Date Dem Rep O / U
Newsweek 11/11 53 36 11
DCorps 11/06 48 40 12
ABC-WaPo 11/02 52 37 12
Gallup 10/23 50 43 7
DCorps 10/23 48 39 9
Hotline 10/16 40 31 9

Democrats hold sizable leads in generic ballot polls, and as I have blogged a million times, these polls matter. Democrats even hold sizable leads in leaked internal Republican polls on the generic ballot. Why then, some will ask, are congressional Democrats not polling higher than Republicans when it comes to favorablity and job approval?

The answer lies in the weak favorability and job approval Democrats receive from their own base--the same base that plans on voting for them anyway. While Democrats are crushing Republicans among Independents, and while congressional Democrats receive a noticeably higher job approval from Republicans than Republican congressional leaders receive from Democrats, Democratic congressional leaders are not well thought of by Democrats themselves. A September poll from Pew that actually offers internals on Democratic approval and favorability tells the story on this one. As I wrote back in September:

One of the most interesting findings of the study is that while Democrats are unbelievably united when it comes to voting for a Democratic candidate for Congress in 2006, they actually don't like their leaders very much. According to the graphic on the right, only 3% of Democrats, whether they are liberal, moderate or conservative Democrats, plan to vote for a Republican in congressional elections 2006. However, while Democrats are far more united than they even were in 2004, and while they are more united than Republican in the generic ballot, Democrats give their leadership very, very low ratings. While Republicans give their leaders in Congress a fifty-six point approval spread, Democrats only give their leaders a seventeen point approval spread. While only 16% of Republicans disapprove of their leaders in Congress compared to 32% for Democrats, Democrats are holding fast in terms of voting intentions while moderate and liberal Republicans are actually poised to break from their party in large numbers. I guess that is what you get when you put movement conservatives in control of every leadership position in Congress.

____________________

(You might say, we demand more from our leaders than the Republicans, and will hold their feet to the fire if we take back the House and/or the Senate.)

[Clarkie1]

23. Well, that's certainly something to be thankful for.

I guess a lot of people vote for what they perceive to be "the lesser of two evils?"

That's the only conclusion I can draw given the approval ratings polls combined with the preference polls.

[DanCa]

24. The wall street journal is a rwing paper correct?

Regardless, I dont trust polls anymore. Beside my guy wes isn't in the congress anyway :D

[bemildred]

25. Yeah, it is. It means the public is paying attention.

The solution is obvious, be FOR something the public wants.
Get us out of Iraq. Give us a national health care system.
Fix the deficits and stop the job haemorrhage. Give us first
class schools again, instead of mindless drivel about "metrics".
Give us an accurate and transparent voting system instead of
black box bullshit. I can go on, this is just a short list ...

[halobeam]

26. Michael Moore on CSPAN last Sunday explained this very well...

he explained that many R's believe in protecting the environment, financial responsibility, disagree with the Iraq war, etc., etc., which are representative of Democratic beliefs. So, he asks, rhetorically, why then are they voting Republican? Moore states that the Republicans seem "solid, resolute".. it creates a sense of security in people. We haven't ran a Democrat that is worthy of these things... Furthermore, Moore states that the only way a Dem will win in 2008 is to state outright, the war is wrong, (even if they voted for it, they did so by false evidence, and it was a mistake).. this change in view of the war is the RIGHT thing to do... we must bring our troops home.

I obviously lack in even paraphrasing the man, he spoke exceptionally well at the meeting which honored the late Paul Wellstone. Just thought, this was something worthwhile mentioning.

Bush may suck, but he isn't going up for another term. Any republican who will run, will have a damn hard time because of this past years exposure of corruption and there will be more to come... but they will still be in the running UNLESS... we have the RIGHT candidate, or we aren't going to get the vote of those who want a change. We have to offer them the change in the biggest flaw of this Bush administration. The war.

[AX10]

28. Clark 08'!

[Lexingtonian]

29. I think it's a good sign, actually.

25% is about right for people who understand what the Party these days really is and consider it that as the one force for good relative to all the rest. About 22-24% of the population identifies as liberals, and they are the base constituency of the Party after all.

I think the rest of everyone has held grossly distorted and obsolete views of the Party and what it's about for most of the past 10-15 years. They're now "disillusioned" or whatever with the recognition that Democrats are not the party they long imagined it to be, stuck in its identity of 1965 or in 1974 or the early Eighties. Listen to Republican talk radio and it's a time warp to the Seventies about Democrats. Listen to the DLC and they never get beyond the Party of 1988-92. Listen to the 'but Chomsky is so right' crowd and it's forever ~1983. Same with the organized labor people.

Average people and a lot of conflicted (i.e. 'moderate') Democrats and Republicans are presently looking at Democrats to lead the country out of this mess in a serious way for the first time in a lot of years. And they're discovering that it's not really what they expected and not what they think they wanted.

There's necessarily going to be a learning process- the first phase will be renewed pressure or desire for the Party to fall back to being what it once was, an illiberal Left party, even though that isn't really possible or at bottom truly desirable. That'll mean briefly revived careers of the likes of Biden and other such, well, throwbacks to the Seventies and Eighties Party. But over some time the searching moderates will find that as discordant with reality and real needs as we here do, and the socially liberal/economically moderate-adaptive approach will become acceptable.

Better to start off with rejection and end up accepted, I say, than the other way around.

[globalvillage]

30. Considering we are the minority

and almost every vote is split down party lines, I think there's a good reason we're not getting better approval ratings. How can we be perceived as doing a good job when none of our legislation has a chance?
It's so bad that our congress people have had the R committee chairs put their names on our bills just to get them passed. I've seen that happen a couple times lately. Dem bill sponsorship changes to Repub just to get the votes.
We do have a lot of work to do. I'm not saying I agree with everything our side is doing, but this poll doesn't represent the work of the Dems in Congress. Especially now that our voice is stronger than it's been.
And the WSJ sucks.

[depakid]

31. Scuse me-

the Republicans don't have a filibuster proof majority and MOST votes HAVE NOT BEEN split evenly down party lines. Only lately has that been the trend.

Dems get low marks because.

1. They rarely ever fight ANYTHING. Harry Reid will go out and make some big talk and bluster, but he won't back anything up;

2. The Dems who end up before the media tend to look weak, mealy, mouthed and go to great pains to enable Republican policies (think Lieberman & Biden);

3. When someone like Dean or Durbin does stand up and say something bold, you can bet that the DINO's will backstab them;

4. 4 or 5 of them routinely side with Republicans- making it easy to claim that the most egregious thing was "bipartisan."

The list goes on.

Bottom line- based on their behavior, the Dems deserve their standing. If they want to boost their appeal, they'll have to do something to earn it.

[globalvillage]

33. No need.

What you've stated is mostly opinion. You don't need an excuse for that.
The fact that it's Dem bashing opinion doesn't change that, IMO. It just makes it contrary, for the most part, to my opinion.
Yes, there are a few, like Lieberman, who are doing more harm than good. But there are a lot of others who are fighting for us, and that's not just my opinion. It's backed up by their voting records.
My point is that in a poll of typical Americans (not DUers), they see us as not accomplishing anything because we do have a very difficult time getting legislation passed. Many of those polled probably don't know who Lieberman, Durbin or Harry Reid are unless they represent their state. They just know we're not as effective in Congress as repubs. That's the minority's fate. With a little luck and a lot of hard work, the repubs will have to live with that soon.
But if you insist, you're excused.
Happy Thanksgiving.

[depakid]

34. What I stated was fact

if you'd like, I can pull out roll call vote after roll call vote- or public statements about shutting down the Senate, followed by "compromises" that allowed three of the most extreme judges EVER nominated to have a lifetime appoinment on the federal bench. There's tons more like that.

You're correct- the average person doesn't see the Dems doing anything- that because they're not! They could oppose far right legislation and use all sorts of parliamentary procedures to do so- and get press coverage- but they don't.

Instead, at the very least enough of them go along every time to ensure that the Dems get blamed right alongside the far right. And the "leadership" won't do anything about it. Think the Republicans would stand for that?

I don't think so- which is one reason why they're the majority party- and the Dems are irrelevant.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mwooldri]

36. Where's the shadow government?

If the American (Republican) government is so bad, then why isn't there any effective formed opposition? Who are the whips that ensure that the democratic party members don't dissent and toe the party line? Who is the shadow President, the spokeman for defence matters, for the economy, for welfare, for _____ ?? Maybe I still dont understand the structure of the US political system even after 6+ years here from the UK. Sometimes having a rabble in the house isn't a bad thing at all.

No wonder the Democratic Party doesn't get good ratings because although there are glimmers of genius (Rep. Murtha, Sen. Reid, etc.,), there isn't anything cohesive and easy enough to understand.

The Democratic Party must be seen as the "Administration in Waiting". I know it may sound silly but why not choose someone at senate or house level to be the shadow president - and if they perform well at shadowing our president then that will get them name recognition and potential to challenge for the real presidental elections in 2008.

Mark.

[montana500]

38. generic approval ratings of congress mean nothing.

The nation as a whole dislikes congress. Any general aproval poll of congress is really meaningless. The " who would you vote for" polls are what matters.