I want to join the other side in the war on Christmas

[bspence]

Seriously, what secular organizations are out there telling Target it's ok to say "Happy Holidays"?

I want to help an organization that says it's ok to call it a holiday tree, instead of a Christmas tree. I don't believe in Christ, but I take part in Christmas day celebrations(in America, since it's a national holiday, you don't have a choice).

Is there an organization that writes letters to companies that cave in to the religious fundies? We need to start fighting back.

[Loonman]

1. There hasn't been a major secularist movement in a long time

There should be though.

[AX10]

2. Actually, it is a Christmas tree. The item is distinct in that...

it is a part of Christmas. However, I do believe that stores should say Happy Holidays. Many holidays occur at this time of year and no one should be offended by having others push there religion upon others. Happy Holidays.

[bspence]

6. I agree that it has been used at Christmas, but...

How is Christ involved? Isn't a holiday tree just as good a term to describe it? Why not call it a X-Mas tree, so you leave off the Christ part? Since the government is pushing "Christmas" down our throats, I want to push back in whatever way I can. Like calling a Christmas tree a holiday tree.

I think the religious right only have themselves to blame when seculars take part in their holidays. They were the ones who made them national holidays.

If us non-believers and other religious types have to take part, we're going to adopt certain practices in whatever way we like. If they'd just kept it as a part of church, it would have a lot more respect.

WHAT WE NEED is to get rid of national holidays on religious days. Let people have ten floating holidays to use whenever they want. Personally, I think August should have way more holidays than some winter months. :)

[Bridget Burke]

3. Check out Concerned Women for America ....

They are one group that led the "fight" against retailers choosing to treat all their customers politely. This essay from 2003 includes the address of the Chairman of Federated Stores--so their Faithful Readers could express their outrage.

www.cwfa.org/articles/5040/CFI/misc/

Perhaps we could use the address to send OUR message? And add some other addresses?

Here's what People for the American Way have to say about CWA:

www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=3151

[LynneSin]

4. Personally I don't understand this fight

I'm almost 40 and I know plenty of Jews, Atheists and other non-Christians who put up Xmas trees and exchange presents. Heck I dated a Muslim for a year and even we exchanged presents. Christmas ceased being religious years ago when stores decided to utilize the Christmas holiday as a reason to exploit consumers and generate profits (not that there is anything wrong with it).

Personally I don't this this fight over "Happy Holidays" vs. "Merry Christmas" was ever started by seculists wanting to remove religious notations from the secular market. I think this is just another ploy like stem-cell research, partial birth abortions, gay marriages & Intelligent Design used to create division between us and them. I don't think I ever recalled any seculists other than the extreme fringe complaining about a Merry Christmas sign and yet it seems every fundie nutjob is jumping on the Bandwagon because it's another excuse to pump their fists in the air and write editorials about how 'God is Dead' because they accidently heard someone say "Happy Holidays"

Don't buy into this creation by religious nutjobs. We, without a doubt, didn't start this fight and I think you'll find most of us including those who don't believe, not caring enough to fight back.

[greenman3610]

5. so let me get this straight. John Gipson is RIGHT?

there IS a war on Christmas?

forgive me. I really didn't think
anyone with a life really gave a shit.

[Midnight Rambler]

9. Yes, greeman3610, there is a war on Christmas

And it's being waged by joyless fundies who feel an overwhelming need to dominate everything all the time.

[bspence]

10. Actually, the war is against non-christians

We didn't pick this fight, but if we don't stand up, we'll slide towards being a lot more like Iran.

Can you imagine what it would be like if they substituted "Christmas" with "Ramadan"? It would sound really scary to most Americans, right?

[LynneSin]

12. Most people don't which is why the fundies are trying so hard

to make it a war.

They do crap like this with non-issues. Just read everything you can about partial birth abortions. At no time ever in this country could a perfectly healthy 6-month pregnant woman walk into a legitimate doctor's office and say "I change my mind - let's abort this baby" And yet somehow the fundies made it seem like this was all commonstance. Late-term abortions were for rare instances where a mother's life was in danger or if there was severe deformation where the child would not survive birth. I don't think these things happened more than 100 times a year but I would gather that all of those children aborted were probably very wanted by their families but the parents were put in an awful position to decide.

[lostnfound]

21. I agree - it's a boogeyman created by the right to distract their base. nt

[LSparkle]

7. All these fundies ought to live for a while in NYC ...

They seem to forget that in large cities -- and New York in particular -- there are a lot more than just Christians! It incenses me to hear someone from Kansas or Nebraska not understanding the big hooplah about not greeting everyone with "Merry Christmas" when, if they were to live in any urban area of this country, they'd realize that Christians are not necessarily the majority. The arrogance with which they assume that "everyone celebrates Christmas" is similar to that of their "Dear Leader" who can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't just go along with him and his lamebrained ideas.

[bspence]

11. Not everyone in Kansas is Christian either

I think some people see a bunch of white people and assume they're all christian.

It's only when Asian, Indians, Blacks, etc come around that people think they might be of another faith.

I'm white, and I don't buy the fairy tales from the Bible.

[LSparkle]

14. Yes, you are right. -- it's definitely a color thing

There are probably many non-Christians in Nebraska, too. Apologies to both states!

[Spinzonner]

8. Become a Tannenbaumist

[neuvocat]

13. Christmas was never religious to begin with.

Christmas was derived from celebrations that mark the end of winter. If anything, the fundies are violating the spirit of Christmas by putting in their own values in something that was essentially neutral.

[Jacobin]

18. Eggggzactly correct

Which is why none of this Christian thing bothers me in the least.

The christians co-opted a lot of pagan holidays to make people feel more comfortable in converting.

[rniel]

15. Happy Holidays

I think they should just say "Fuck you" to all the shoppers. Especially the ones who voted for bush. But that's just my personal opinion.

[Kashka-Kat]

16. I dont get it-- thanksgiving, christmas, new years = "holidays" - HENCE

the expression "happy holidays."

We said "happy holidays" back in the freakin fifties and sixties here in Wisconsin LONG before we ever knew any Jews or non Christians!

How "happy holidays" was twisted around to become "anti christmas" is beyond me. The sad thing is, now Im hesitant about sending a christmas (aka "holiday") card to my fundie evangelical siblings like I usually do-- for fear I'll offend them with my non religious cards with pic of a singing choir of cats under a tree. Is that what they really want?? Drive more wedges between people?

[rucky]

22. Happy Christmahannukwanzakah!

[Double T]

17. The 'Holiday Issue' should be a personal and private thing.........

each person can choose to do as they will regarding 'celebrating' the Holidays or not. Why do we have to have a movement on what should be a non issue. To each his own and ALL OTHERS be damned!!!!

[lynne]

19. Everyone has a choice to take part in Christmas celebrations or not -

- it doesn't matter if it's a holiday. I have a friend who's a Jehovah's Witness and they don't celebrate Christmas. She won't eat the first cookie, she does not attend office holiday celebrations, does not decorate, does not give or receive gifts.

While I may not agree with her, I admire her determination to follow her own beliefs. My friend is proof that no one needs to participate in Christmas if they really don't want to. Those that claim otherwise are just looking for an excuse to celebrate something they don't believe in.

[0007]

20. I believe ya have to go through me to get to heaven, but damn it

why can't I walk on water? I do like what the Naz said about, "Love others as I have loved you?"

The only non- secular organization I can recommend. Is the Round Church.