I cannot believe that my 77-year-old father, who is a WWII veteran

[frankly_fedup2]

is being treated the way he and my mother are.

He called me this morning upset because their one credit card payment has doubled. They were paying $98 a month but now it is $184 a month. He told me he cannot afford this; especially since his retirement insurance from the company he retired from has changed insurance policies and now they pay over $200 each every month and this insurance company only will pay 50% of any bill. The lady told me it was called "indemnity" health insurance. I told her the only place I have heard "indemnity" is on life insurance policies.

Also, the Medicare they pay out of their SS checks every month is over $60 a month each. Plus, due to their getting both retirement and Social Security checks, the VA tells my father that he has too much income to qualify for any of their help.

They live on a fixed income and are lucky they receive retirement checks as well as Social Security. Yearly, they bring in $24 thousand a year. I know a lot of elderly bring in about $8 thousand dollars a year, and I have no idea how these people make it unless it is famiy support. Either way, both incomes are under the poverty level. My parent's home is paid in full as well as their cars. They made sure of that as well. However, I think sometimes they are scraping week-to-week when I visit. Of course, they will not allow themselves to take anything from me or my sister . . . they would die before they would borrow money or take money from us. They are prideful and will not admit to this. My sister and I could split the credit card payment, and we will offer to do that (she pays $100 and so do I), but they will not let us due to their pride. They pride themselves on always helping my dad's brothers and sisters get on their feet as well as other friends and family at times. But they have NEVER asked anyone for anything and they tell me they are not going to start now.

What to do?????

My parents are both 77. My mother is in unreal good health (thank the Lord), but my dad we almost lost last year with CHF. He has had a quadruple bypass, Right carotid artery surgery, left carotid artery surgery, had prostate cancer, and went through 8-1/2 weeks of radiation therapy at a hospital that is a 2-hour drive from here. There was another hospital closer; like 20 minutes to get there, however, the insurance company refused to pay anything because it was out of network. He has venous insufficiency and his legs are terrible looking and will drain a fluid (ick).

Needless to say, he is not in the best of health; however, he has such a life spirit that all of his doctors say he is a miracle because he should have been dead 20 years ago. Even his primary care physician stated that "God has blessed his eyes on your father." I agree.

The reason I bring this up is because of my father's health and then all the BS he has to STILL put up with in the twilight of his life. This should be unacceptable and we better do something about it now. Funny how all of the Congress and Prez and VP and Prez's administration get free health care, free gas for their limos as well as private cars, also unreal retirement packages as well as their wives. They make sure they are taking good care of, but screw us, huh?

When we get to retirement age (I'm 46), we've already been told we will have no Social Security. What the Hell are we going to do for those that are not putting anything back for their retirement. We both pay into retirement accounts because we are not going to depend on the government. But there are a lot of people we know that make really good money; however, they haven't put away a dime. We started in our 30's and I'm so thankful we did. However, it could all be gone tomorrow and that scares me too.

I'm done ranting now.

Are there going to be elderly people standing in soup lines that live on the street because of this government? I was not born the first time this happened, but Roosevelt, I thought, with some of the social programs guaranteed it would not happen again. Well, it looks like history may repeat itself.

[babylonsister]

1. I'm sorry to hear about your folks' situation.

It does suck, doesn't it? My dad predicted a return to poor houses as a result of dimson's policies of ruining the middle class. Now that folks can't declare bankruptcy, I too see that being a possibility, especially if they're faced with major medical problems.
We send my m-i-l a check every once in awhile and tell her it's for a new perm, a dinner out, bingo, or whatever might please her. Perhaps you could slip them some bucks like that, without them having to think it's charity.
And here's a hug.:hug:

[frankly_fedup2]

11. Thanks babylonsister. That's a good Idea. I never thought about

that. I'll talk with my sister and see what we can come up with.

My dad brought up filing for bankruptcy and I could not believe it because they have always paid their bills and really stressed that responsibility to me and my sister as well as voting. I told him how the laws changed in the fall. First they change that law, then they have the credit cards double your payment to "help you get out of debt." Help us? When has this government ever "helped us."

If my parents filed for bankruptcy, they would take their home. Simple as that. In VA, if you have home equity, then they expect you to get the money out of your home or vehicles, and if you don't want to handle it that way, they will handle it for you. They would lose everything.

Also, a little more information if you live in the state of VA. There is no cap on credit card interest rates. They promise a rate and they can change it just because something bad showed up on your credit report like 3 months ago. They run a credit check on everyone about every quarter.

We have one credit card as well. I have already been paying them double payments so we are okay. As a matter of fact, this credit card sent us some checks to use over Christmas (their attempt of helping us get out of debt with them I suppose). They had never done that before. Also, they try to get you to use cash advance as much as possible because that interest rate is always much, much higher than just using the card for purchases, a hotel, a trip, etc.

I looked at my dad's statement and that is all he has used this credit card for was CASH ADVANCES. I showed him the difference in the interest rates and he about imploded. Now they are somewhat in major debt again. He asked me whether they could transfer to another, lower-interest rate card, which I told him yes. Then I thought about their age and the amount on the card (around $16,000), so I don't know. I told him not to use the house for collateral unless he got life insurance on the note and that would add $200 a month to the note.

I'm so frustrated and worried because they are worried.

I have a feeling there will be more posts than mine regarding this injustice yet again on the elderly.

:grouphug: We all need to stick together and do something about this.

[babylonsister]

12. I banished about $20,000 worth of credit card debt; it took me

about 4-5 years, but that's exactly what I did. I found a company that would honor a 0% interest, and when that term expired, I moved on. All the funds I paid went right towards what I owed.
We are debt-free now, so it is doable that way. And I don't know why their age would be a factor; they hand out credit cards to students with no obvious income, at least your folks have some money coming in.
Good luck!

[frankly_fedup2]

21. We've tried asking companies years ago to lower their interest

rates because we had heard of some companies doing that rather then face losing it all from customers filing bankruptcy. None would even come down any. What credit card company did you get to do that?

[babylonsister]

32. We were always receiving offers in the mail to transfer our

balances; I never directly asked, just agreed to transfer as long as their interest rate was 0%. Once that time frame expired, I moved on to the next. I received lots of propaganda from banks wanting to do business, but would only go for the 0% balances offered. Even if it was only for 6 months, that would be 6 months of interest I didn't have to pay.

[frankly_fedup2]

38. Yeah; however, we were told by (consumer credit counseling - who

charge for their service as well) not to transfer from card to card because that would hurt our credit. Well, it ended up hurting our credit alright . . . bankruptcy.

[frankly_fedup2]

57. I meant to tell you that my m-i-l is a major hugger too so here is

one back from her and I. :pals: :pals:

[texpatriot2004]

2. It's not right. Your folks deserve better. nt

[ktlyon]

3. pay off their credit card for them

they should not be carrying a balance forward
If they are using the credit card for monthly expenses they are never going to get even. Work out a budget that stays within their income or you pay the difference but any interest or fees to the credit card companies are a waste. Help them so they don't have to pay fees or interest.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

4. That is really sad, and shameful. This shouldn't be happening.

"Compassionate conservatism" strikes again.

They can't stand that the programs of Democrats like Roosevelt have worked so well, so they are intentionally undermining them at all turns.

That retirement insurance premium sounds outrageous for 50% coverage. I wonder what happened and whether there are alternatives.

The credit card companies and their influence with Congress is shameful too. The new bankruptcy law.

The interest rates and late fees they charge.

I get that, I was dealing with them until very recently too. 29+ % interest, 35 late fees for even one day of lateness. Payments only barely covering the interest so you can't pay down the principle.

Any chance they can do some debt consolidation to get lower interest rates and make a much smaller total payment?

Be careful who they might go to for that, of course.

So sorry.

[Contrary1]

5. Since their home is paid for...

perhaps they could take out a home equity loan to pay off the credit card bill.
The interest rate would be lower, so they would be able to get out of debt sooner.

You might also have them check out a reverse-mortgage.

[Gormy Cuss]

7. I second these suggestions.

Either way they maintain their independence.

Also, "indemnity" health insurance is the type where your choice for providers is not pre-defined. It's what used to be the common type of coverage before HMOs, PPOs, and the other alphabet soups choices that we have today. Indemnity typically excluded coverage for preventative care but that may have changed.

[ChiciB1]

9. I Say Nix To Reverse Mortgages, IMO They're Pretty Much A Scam

and I'd bet hard for them to understand.

[frankly_fedup2]

13. They are either going to have to do that or, I would prefer the

reverse mortgage. But you have to be careful with those. I would rather they have the money for their home to enjoy now while they are alive then leaving it to us to split up. We have our own homes and are making it (sometimes iffy), but their home is paid in full and they have half of it shut off because they don't want to pay the heat.

Plus, they never use that part of the house because it was my bedroom, my sister's bedroom, our bath and den. They use the basic rooms in the front of the house; kitchen, living room, 1 bedroom, and 1 bath.

Thanks for the ideas. We obviously have some work to do (me and my sister I mean). Research, research and more research. They are going to have to be a little less prideful too. Maybe him telling me he cannot afford it is his way of telling me that he needs help. Could be????

My dad is on home oxygen prn as well as a lot of meds but he is like the energizer bunny. He hurts with his legs but he gets up and walks and moves around. Not too much but some.

I cannot imagine not having my parents. I'm 47 and am well aware that the day will come; however, I cannot imagine it. My dad has beat so many things, it's almost like he is invincible to me. My mother hasn't been sick ever except for a hysterectomy and that's it. But, she won't go get a yearly physical either. Her memory is getting really bad. I told here there is medicine to help her with that; however, she refuses to go. I told here there are a lot of things that can kill you that give you no symptoms at all, but she won't listen to none of us.

How do you make grown adults (who use to tell you your ever move), that they have to go for checkups, take their meds and not just buy half a script and cutting the pills in half as well. I have threatened to call the doctors on my dad and did, but he is of right mind, so what can you do. My mother seems pretty happy in her own little world. Really happier then she was when she knew who everyone was. Only problem though is when she misplaces something, she is calling all of us and accusing us of moving it, borrowing whatever it was and then not returning it. She accused my dad of stealing her diamond rings and giving them to his sisters because she forgot where she put them.

It's funny sometimes because my dad will call me while my mother is "listening in" on the other line. Then he tells me what is going on and I can hear her breathing, I know she is on their extension listening. They never call my sister . . . just me. Why? Because it would cost them long distance charges. I have bought them calling cards, but because there are so many numbers, they give them to my son.

Oh well, sorry to air my family's problems online. I had to vent before my hubby gets home and I know this is the place to do it. I've been here so long, it's my home page, and I know if anybody would listen, some of you would, plus give me some good advice. Thanks to all.:hi: :grouphug:

[China_cat]

6. My grandfather was the same

so we just got the account number for the bill and started paying it without him knowing it. They don't care where the money comes from as long as it goes to the proper account. Your parents will start getting a bill that says '$0' payment due. Then make sure they don't use the card again.

They'll wonder what's going on, but you and your sister are wonderful for wanting to help them and you can do it without their permission.

[ChiciB1]

8. Well, My Mother-In-Law Has Been Living With Us For The Past

6 1/2 years!! She's 93 and has Alzheimer's! And talk about savings? Well, my father-in-law didn't even believe in a life insurance plan! If my mother-in-law had to live alone, her monthly income is only $740.00 a month! I stopped working when we had to take her in, fortunately WE DID save for the future and made some investments. But NOT wealthy by any stretch. What I find so terribly distressing is the fact that MANY MANY of our elderly can even BEGIN to understand HALF of the changes being foisted upon them.

I have a neighbor who is only 76 and seems befuddled most of the time! She constantly comes to me with questions regarding not only Medicare/Medicaid, but less complicated issues that she finds confusing. One comes to mind... her telephone bill! There are days that I feel like a financial consultant to the elderly. These are only two people who are having difficulty with "today's frenetic" world

But I will say, that if the initial payment was $98.00, the balance on the credit card must be pretty high. Perhaps, as I have found, your parents may not be well informed about the interest they must ALSO be paying!

[ChiciB1]

10. Just Had Another Thought...

As a WWII Veteran, your father should be eligible for TriCare Health Insurance. My mother-in-law has it and if she didn't, WE would have to dip into OUR savings!

[shireen]

14. Credit Card Companies -- parasitic scum of the earth

I heard this on the Suze Orman show ... some people just don't pay their credit card bills. There is a statute of limitations on debt, it varies from state to state, but after that time has passed, the credit card company or the collection agency cannot come after you. But the key to riding it out is to NEVER EVER promise a payment, even verbally over the phone, or the clock will go back to zero for the statute of limitation interval. I don't know how it will affect his FICO score, but at his age, I don't think it's going to make much difference. (Call or email Suze about your dad's situation.)

If he really wants to pay back the credit card companies, he should enroll in a debt management program. I did it for 5 years with http://www.consumercredit.com/ and they were wonderful. After a few payments, the agency may be able to negotiate a lower interest rate, which they did for me. They even made a deal with American Express to reimburse me for the amount that I was charged in interest while in the debt management program -- I was really surprised when I got that check in the mail!


Check out Suze's website at http://www.suzeorman.com/index.cfm and click on the "RESOURCE CENTER" button near the top right of the page. Lots of very useful info under "Managing Debt".


Good luck!!!!

[frankly_fedup2]

23. Wow! Thanks Shireen. They only have one credit card but it's

got $9 thousand worth of debt on it (limit at $14 thousand). They have had and used this one credit card before they retired as well (hence the credit limit).

Statue of limitations on debt? Never heard of that. I know that health insurance will only pay a claim up to a year. If you cannot get it before then, then you are responsible for paying it even if the insurance company should have paid it. Never any debt.

Would this apply to debt with equity, and if it does, how does this work?

[shireen]

34. wish i knew more

Oh, don't get me started on those health insurance creeps. That whole thing is one sick stink! Health Care is a Human Right!!!

I'm not very finance-saavy, and was surprised to hear about statute of limitations on credit card debt. Is it treated like debt with equity? Good question .... I don't know the details, but I suspect it is not because credit card debt is sorta equivalent to an unsecured loan. I really wish I knew more. Try writing to Suze Orman about it. She may respond. If not, do some googling -- there must be people out there who have had to deal with this situation before. It also won't hurt to run all this past a lawyer, to make sure there are no suprises hidden in the latest "credit card" legislation (doubling minimum payments, etc..)

Please let me know how this turns out -- send me an IM sometime. I am really really pissed off that your parents have to go through this. After all they have contributed to our country, to be treated like this is just awful.

Good luck!

[shireen]

15. Social Security

> When we get to retirement age (I'm 46), we've already been told we will have no Social Security.

Only if you let the Republicans screw it up beyond saving. There's still hope ....

Everything was fine till Idiot-in-Chief came along. When Clinton left, there was surplus to handle the baby boomers. Then Idiot dipped into it to cover his tax cuts on the rich -- so much for the lock-box those funds were supposed to be in!

SS can be saved simply by a modest raise in income limit that SS taxes are paid on. Donald Trump and I pay the same in SS taxes. That's just nuts.

Another reason to get Dems in the House and Senate and White House to save us from the Idiots Evil Plots to vanish the Middle Class.

[G Edward Cook]

17. Save Social Security

Save Social Security by raising the minimum wage to $8 per hour. Check it out at GEdwardCook.com
Social security isn't going away.
Thanks

[baldguy]

19. Make the wealthy pay their fair share.

Income over $90k/yr is exempt from SS taxes.

[frankly_fedup2]

53. That would pretty much take care of our problem as well. That is

BS that anyone that makes over 90K pays no more SS taxes.

They do that because of the amount of SS a person that made that kind of income would get when they retired. They would be over paying now compared to the largest amount that SS gives to retirees.

Seems to me that the more money you make, the less you have to pay for anything in this Country as far as the Government is concerned. It's bass ackwards.

[frankly_fedup2]

39. I pray it doesn't. My husband pays over $250 a month out of his check

to SS. He got a $4,000.00 Christmas Bonus check and after taxes, we had $2400.00 left. How pathetic is that. I know, we were still grateful for the $2400.00 because it helped us catch up plus give our son some extra cash as well as my mother-in-law who is widowed. It's just unbelievable the amount of taxes we pay, PLUS we have to pay taxes on my disability check because of what my husband makes. It's amazing to me that I have worked all my life, just like everyone else, had worked my way up to my own business working out of my home; however, I got sick and was unable to do anything anymore. Well, I get less than a third of what I made when I worked and, again, am thankful for that; however, still having to pay taxes out of a disability check. It's greedy madness.

[shireen]

43. 40%

> He got a $4,000.00 Christmas Bonus check and after taxes, we had $2400.00 left.
That's 40%, a lot!

But you can take comfort in the fact that the super-rich only pay 15% on their stock dividends. Hey! Someday, we could be rich just like them, so we better support those Republicans!

:rofl:

[frankly_fedup2]

54. I never thought about the percentage but that is high. I can get the

stub and list what each deduction was for. I do remember FICA being $880.00.

We have some friends who are "Republicans" and are in the same income bracket as we are. I've told my friend's husband that there is no way the Republicans would accept them into their party. The reason being . . . they don't make enough money. It's always about the money with any politician.

The neocons have just gotten away with so much the last ten years that they are so drunk with power and have no fear of consequences of their actions.

Even Bush had $6000.00 given to him by Abramoff that reportedly has been returned. Also, a lot of the top Conservatives have supposedly returned contributions. I have but one question . . .

Who in the Hell are they giving the money back to? Abramoff?? The Reservations or Casinos?

In 2004 my husband and I went to Cherokee, NC, over Christmas and stayed in a hotel near the Harrah's Casino there. That is the closest place we could go to legally gamble. It was really nice; however, since everything was located on the reservation, there was no alcohol whatsoever served. Which I was happy about, I don't drink; however, my husband was not a happy camper. We were told at the hotel that we couldn't buy any beer on the reservation as alcohol was not sold anywhere there; however, we could buy alcohol outside the reservation and bring the beer into our hotel discretely.

Next year we might go to Atlantic City as it is a shorter drive then a 2-day drive to Vegas. Eventually we are going to go to Vegas over New Years before we die (I hope).

[northzax]

63. FICA is 6.25 percent

so for your FICA to be that much, your Husband's check would have been $14,080. Even if the company didn't pay the mandatory matching (say if he's a consultant) then it's only 12.5%.

on a $4000 check, the FICA should have been either $250 or $500, depending on his job status.

[frankly_fedup2]

65. Okay, call me dummy. I was thinking FICA was federal taxes. I

went and got the check stub (as below) that shows the total deductions on $4,000.00. Just don't hate me because I'm stupid. It's 4 a.m. for cripes sake and I haven't been to bed yet and I'm figuring on staying up all night anyway.
(
yeah, that sounds like a good excuse for my stupidity. Yeah I'll use the "I'm so tired I'm crosseyed excuse)

Sorry--------------

Okay, I've got the check stub before me as we type.

Taxable Gross = $4000.00

FWT 22.8% OF GROSS = $883.00 (Federal that I was calling FICA)

SS 6.20% of Gross = $248.00 (FICA - you were close at $250)

Medicare 1.45 % of Gross = $58.00

SWT 5.67 % of Gross = $226.73

NET PAY $2584.27

They kept 1/3rd of it. It's sickening :crazy:

[frankly_fedup2]

66. WHAT? Are you saying we should have gotten $14,000.00?

Just kidding with a little humor (very little).

I was thinking FICA was federal (a--duh). FICA was 6.20% @ $248 ( you were close at $250). Federal was 22% and was $883. Medicare was 1.45% or $58.00 and last but not least State was 5.67% or $226.73.

Well out of 4K we got $2,584.27. They took a third of it.

I'm seeing double I have been on here way to long.

[northzax]

80. no, I was just suggesting that maybe your husband

used a little white out on the 1, stashing a little something away in the Caymans, maybe?

:hi:

[frankly_fedup2]

81. He better have used a little "greenout" and if he did, the

S*** will hit the fan. Now, what about possible accounts in the Caymans, hmmm? LOL O8)

[northzax]

82. oh, I'm sure he's just saving up for your anniversary present

or he's banging his secretary. one of the two. :evilgrin:

[frankly_fedup2]

84. Well, as long as I get the 1/2 caret, Emerald-cut diamond with a

new Gold 10-mm band then he can bang whoever he wants. Just gives me more time to do what I want to do. :rofl:

[frankly_fedup2]

59. Not only vanish the middle class but the Democratic Party as well.

I cannot believe that you and "The Donald" pay the same amount of SS retirement and Medicare. That is insane.:grr:

I will IM you in a day or two. You have given me so many ideas and I do have a question or two. I'm surprised that my post became a hot topic but I think a lot of the members here have parents who are now becoming more elderly and are going through issues of their own.

[MissWaverly]

16. go through their garage and their attic

see if some of that useless junk is valuable, it probably is, that old ugly rocking chair
from Aunt Martha might be valuable and old Christmas ornaments from the 40s and 50s are
valuable, and so are some nativity sets. Get it appraised and sell it to give them a breather, they can be socking away money to help with payments in the grace period. I'd stay away from having a garage sale because you get the tupperware crowd but if it's a collectible you could sell it on e-bay. Also some of the classical or jazz records are very valuable because they don't have masters for these recordings so an old record
from the 40s or 50s may be valuable, the same way with autographs even baseballs. Also
some china that the GIs brought back from Japan is very valuable, but you would have
to research it. Alsmost anything can be a collectible from an old batman doll to
a PEZ container, lunch box, etc.

[frankly_fedup2]

55. Another great idea. Thanks MissWaverly. I know they have

some Tommy Dorsey albums. My mother has some 45's of Elvis too and they are stuffed up in boxes in the attic. They have been cleaning out the house and getting rid of "clutter" so I don't know if they have thrown anything of value away. It would surprise me if my dad did. He is pretty tight about money and valuables.

My dad has an antique car in mint condition, but he will not sell it, and I cannot make him. I told him I would put it online to sell but he has had that car since he bought it back in 1960. It's a candy-apple red, 1960 Mercury Marauder with the tires that have the big white trim around the tires. It's considered one of the old "muscle cars" (whatever that is). Everything on it is original except he has gotten the seats recovered as well as a new paint job. They only made so many, but enough to keep its value down somewhat. We really do not know what it is worth. I have talked to collectors online and to find out how much the car might be worth. They told me we would have to get a professional antique car surveyor to look it over before we would truly know. Well, I found a couple but they are so far away it would cost quite a bit to get the car to them as well as pay them for their assessment or pay for them to come to the car.

That car just sits in a basement of a car dealership with a cover over it. My dad might drive it a week or so in the summer and that's it.

[MissWaverly]

83. very simple, get a book on collectibles before you go to attic

As for the car, do a search on e-bay, they have cars, see if they have a similar
car and see what it is worth, you may not have to sell it, I would definitely find out
what the other materials worth, go thru the albums carefully and I would find bloggers
that know about it and ask them, I know it's time consuming but will probably be well
worth it, my neighbor made $800 selling old china, leaded glass and knic knacs, I think
the more you pay down on your balance the lower the payment goes. Also look thru old
books, see if you have any first editions, old children's picture books from the 30s
and the 40s are valuable because many were collected for paper drives during WW II. I arranged for the dealer to come to my neighbor, she appraised the stuff and bought it
on-site, but you have to know what it's worth.

Good Luck!

[frankly_fedup2]

85. I did that with the car a couple years ago. I talked to people who

collected these kind of cars all over the U.S. We had several offers and the people were willing to come and get the vehicle and transport it back; however, nothing offered was good enough for my dad. I appreciate your ideas though.

I'm calling my sister this weekend and will talk about all of this with her. \

I am in awe at the amount of help everyone has offered.

This is my first post in over 4 years that I have put on DU that got a flame plus over 80 replies.

The kicker is it was not really anything to do with politics except the fact the credit cards were doubling their payments thanks to Boy George.

[MissWaverly]

86. Hey, we care that's why we blog

Hey, your dad fought for us, it's our turn to fight for him!

:-)

[sandnsea]

18. Excuse me?

$24,000 annual, health insurance and no mortgage payment? I know elderly people in that situation too and they are a long long ways from "scraping by". Tell them to take out a low interest mortage on their house to pay off the credit card and reduce the payments. There are people who are really going to be hurting with all the cuts and the economy, but your parents aren't among them.

[LittleClarkie]

24. Did you miss the health problems

And somehow I suspect that the OP knows his parents better than you do, re: how much they have and need.

Still the low interest mortgage is a good idea.

[sandnsea]

25. No I didn't

It's not easy getting old and sick, I know that. But one ought not to confuse people who have good pensions and health benefits with those being kicked off Medicaid. It's not the same thing. To describe an elderly couple living on $24,000 a year as "scraping by" is ridiculous. Most likely, they set that income themselves for tax purposes. I didn't add that tidbit, but that's the way most of the well-off elderly I know manage their finances and I happen to live in the middle of a bunch of retired folks. Million dollar stock portfolios and a "fixed income" that they fixed themselves for tax purposes. I think it's great until they start complaining about a $25 property tax increase or some such because they're on a "fixed income". Because their homes are usually paid for, the elderly have most of the wealth in this country, did you know that? The picture of the little old couple eating cat food is a small percentage of elderly and those are the ones I worry about. This couple with a paid for home have options, way more options than the vast majority of Americans.

[Neil Lisst]

30. Two thousand a month is plenty?

The OP explained the situation, and under the best of circumstances, their money is tight. Your judgments are faulty.

[sandnsea]

31. With no mortgage?

I'd hardly call it scraping by. Did you not read the rest of my post. Retired people set their income in order to pay the least amount of taxes. That's the exact amount most retired people I know set their income at. Did the OP talk about Medicaid or spend downs or food banks? No. THAT is scraping by. What the retired couple in the OP have is what most working people dream of having in their retirement, a pension, a paid mortgage and company health insurance. The days of having even that much are dwindling, which is why I'm not going to make the mistake of letting anybody think this is "scraping by". Retirement can be worse, much much worse.

[frankly_fedup2]

61. Well, you are right to a certain extent. However, my parents worked in

a factory all their lives. They've never been "well off," plus they paid a mortgage payment for 33 years to pay that house off. Also, they were not just given this pension as well as their Social Security. They have worked long and hard for what they have, and I just do not feel that at this time in their lives that they should have to worry about anything as far as doctors, medications, or their credit card jumping up to twice as much as they are use to paying.

They have no stock portfolios and wouldn't know what that was. As far as the elderly having everything, they should have something don't you think? I mean after all, they have worked the past 40-50 years so they should have something to call their own after pouting in their time. They didn't have careers, they had jobs, and every time a Republican got into office, there would be lay offs. Plus, I don't think I used the term "scraping by" anywhere regarding my parents. My sister and I wouldn't allow them to scrape by. I don't know how we could get them to take any cash or let us take over any bills; however, they will never scrape by nor will they do without anything. I can assure you of that and not because of their income, but because they have two daughters who love them, and will make sure they have what they need.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I think I stated I know some retired people (i.e. my mother-in-law) who get around $8,000 a year. She is widowed. My father-in-law died at the age of 59. He never got a dime of all that money he had paid in to Social Security and Medicare. It would seem that she should get his check as well as hers; however, she doesn't get a dime extra. They base her retirement on (I think) what she was making the last five years of employment. Social Security won't let you get your spouses as well if that spouse is dead.

My point regarding my elderly parents is that with their secondary insurance doubling on them, then their Medicare is automatically taken out of their checks before they are even deposited and that is over $60 a month each. So just for health insurance they are paying $320.00 for both of them. Add my dad's medicine which runs approximately $500 to the $320 and that is $820.00. Wow, just their medical bills (and this total does not include physician visits for my dad) take almost half of their monthly income.

As far as "Taxes" and their planning a certain amount for a fixed income, you can't be serious about that one. They are under the poverty line at $24,000.00 a year and since it is Social Security and their pensions they do not have to pay any taxes on that, so I don't know where you got that from.

Now those millionaires you were talking about with stock portfolios that are retired and claim they are on a fixed income, well they may have to pay some taxes, but Bush is working on fixing that for them. He has already gotten rid of the inheritance taxes so those you speak of fall into that category. Unfortunately, my parents don't make over $600 thousand a year and to qualify for that inheritance tax benefit, I do believe you have to have an income and/or property in that range.

Bush's so-called Medicare Prescription Drug plan hasn't done anything to help my father and his medication. The Medicare Prescription Benefit did not apply to my parents at all. They are over the limit in income to get any help. Let me repeat myself again, $24,000.00 a year income for two people is still under the poverty level. But they are not poor enough to get any help.

The biggest bill they have is my father's medication. Now we are talking over $500 a month and sometimes he sneaks and doesn't get it all, or he will get half of a script, or he will take certain meds one month and then take the ones he skipped the next. He has glaucoma; however, the drops cost a fortune and he refuses to buy them. I told him I would buy them and he had a fit when I bought a bottle. He refused to use them and they are still sitting in the cabinet. You did read all the health problems he has had. Well, medicine is their worst cost.

You are right as well about them complaining about having to pay more for the same service, my dad does it all the time. Take the price of gas for example. When you are following a budget, and then there is a sudden increase in expenses, you can sometimes get behind and my father gets worried when costs go up on them.

Yes, they are better off then a lot of elderly people, but not as well of as others. They were very fortunate to work for a company for 30 years and retire with a pension as well as receiving a Social Security Retirement check each month. However, they do pay over $200 a month for their secondary insurance coverage and you did see what they are paying each month just for health insurance as well as what Medicare automatically takes out of their retirement checks before they are deposited in their accounts? Also, the monthly medication costs for my father eat up most of their money. He has to have it though.

With what we all have to pay for Social Security and Medicare out of our checks every payday, and the same as our parents did before us, I don't think anyone once they retire should have to pay for any health care. It should be provided at no cost. Same as their medications. Once a person retires, all doctor's visits as well as medications should not cost them anything. I also feel they should not have to worry about whether or not they can buy food or pay their electric bill.

I think as a society it's shameful the way some of our elderly are treated; especially the truly poor that need someone to bring them one good meal a day, live alone, have a nurse check on them daily and then they are alone the rest of the day because their children live too far away to help them OR their children do not want their elderly parents disrupting their own lives. No one deserves that in the twilight years of their lives.

We can do a lot better in this Country regarding our elderly population, plus we could learn a lot from the Asian Countries and how they treat their elderly. They are taken care of before anyone else in the family (unless there are small infants, of course.) They care for their every need until they are gone.

[madfloridian]

41. Shameful statement, sandnsea. Real estate taxes are skyrocketing.

We have long had a home that is very nice and paid for. However, our taxes are going up sky high here in Florida, and everywhere taxes are being pushed to the property owners.

Many seniors in paid for homes, who worked hard all their lives are going to suffer a lot.

[frankly_fedup2]

64. You're right madfloridian. I forgot about their real estate taxes

PLUS in the State of VA, we have to pay personal property taxes as well; however, that is yearly....right at Christmas. Then their electric bill has almost doubled.

They are far from homeless and I think I know what you are trying to say; however, they have worked hard all their lives, just like most people who retire, and the main thing most people strive to do is have their home paid off by the time they retire. Their not living the good life by no means but they are not sleeping in the street either, but no one should be living on the streets in this day and time.

Now my mother-in-law gets food stamps as well as Medicaid paying for her Medicare so she can have some money left over for the rest of the month. But she is a widow and only gets $8,000.00 a year. Her BIG home is paid for plus she owns a lot of land. She isn't struggling either. From time-to-time we might pay her phone bill or her electric bill, she lets us help her if she needs help.

However,I sincerely do not think they should still, after 58 years of marriage, and both being 77 years old, have to worry about all this BS because we have a rich, arrogant, idiot in the White House, who by the way has never worked a hard days work in his life, with the majority of congress acting as if they are helping people by changing the bankruptcy law on regular people but not on corporations or the really rich so they don't lose their mansion or two.

[baldguy]

20. Before SS was introduced, the elderly were the poorest age group by far.

Of course, the GOP wants to eliminate it.

[LittleClarkie]

22. Which card do they have, if I may ask

I'm worried, myself.

[frankly_fedup2]

62. Discover /nt

[seabeyond]

26. each of you give a hundred a month to your mom, or more

if you can afford it...... and tell mom to keep mum

[frankly_fedup2]

67. Thanks, if only she would. Her memory is not so good anymore.

So I really do not think she would remember to keep mum.

[frankly_fedup2]

68. Thanks; however, mom's memory is not as good as it was and

she might forget the "Keep Mum" part.

[flordehinojos]

27. i wonder if,

CONSUMER CREDIT COUNSELING 1.800.355-2227 might be able to help them with lowering their payments on all their credit card payments. I believe this particular outfit is non-profit and does not charge a fee(or, if they do, i believe it is a very small one time fee).

[frankly_fedup2]

69. Yeah, they charge. My husband and I went through them at one

time. They made such an unreasonable budget, it just wasn't helpful at all. Plus, the closest one is an hour and a half's drive away. That's a pretty long trip for my parents. Also, they can take the majority of info over the phone; however, you eventually have to go down there. Plus, they do charge a fee. I found it deceiving the way they advertise. They claim they are a non-profit organization (which is true); however, because I am not that intelligent, I took that as free help. I was wrong yet again. Thanks for the help though.

Everyone has been so great with their ideas. I really appreciate all of your thoughts.

[flordehinojos]

77. i know a lot of them charge exhorbitant fees ...

CONSUMER CREDIT COUNSELING used to be a county thing at one point ... or somehow it received some federal or state money to run its program. IT IS NOT THE SAME AS CONSUMER CREDIT SERVICES which mimicks their name ... CONSUMER CREDIT COUNSELING has now consolidated into one national operation and they do charge a small one time fee and they don't advertise, except by word of mouth... i wonder if we are talking about the same operation.

anyhow, i hope the situation with your parents is resolved in their favor. yesterday my 97 year old father told me that he, while thinking that his paperwork was in perfect order with his HMO, since they had previously sent him some paperwork to fill out, which he did, with their over the phone help, got another missive in the mail yesterday as apparently something is missing from his paper work, or they need more information on it, or who knows how the hell they want to screw him this time around. it made him very nervous as he contemplates getting on the phone one more time with them to try and figure out what they claim is missing from his paper work. life is not easy and the elderly, sick and infirm are being hit ever double so much more by this darn bush fascist administration!

[kick_them_hard]

28. A little known secret...

Call the credit card company and tell them you can not pay that monthly amount since it has doubled. They will say that your parents can go back to what they were paying BEFORE the amount doubled IF you cansel the card. Try it, it might or might not work depending on the credit card.

Good luck@

[frankly_fedup2]

70. Usually, when you tell them to cancel the card, they want the total

in full. It may work; however, that is my parent's credit card, not mine. I can bring that up to them, and I would call for them; however, they would kill me if I took it upon myself to do that without talking to them.

(Yes, I admit it . . . they still scare me sometimes!!!)

[Maru Kitteh]

29. Pay off their debt. It's the least you can do.

You have to ask?

[frankly_fedup2]

71. It's not that I have to ask, it's the point of them letting me have the

information to do so. Of course, my sister would have to pay her share and she is so tight she squeeks when she walks. You'd think she'd never had any money.

All these ideas are great. She and I are just going to have to put our heads together and figure out the best way to do this.

[AngryAmish]

33. "What the Hell are we going to do for those that are not putting anything

away for retirement"? They will starve. The baby boomers are the most vicious, rapacious people in all of history. Consume, consume, consume is the only mantra they know. The boomers gleefully impoverish the rest of society so they can get theirs.

[frankly_fedup2]

72. Well, the boomers are turnnig 60 this year so it won't be long now.

Also, remember Bush's grand idea of everyone having their own medical savings accounts because they have found that if the person has to pay the bill, they tend not to go to the doctor so often. He proposed this rather than helping someone with health insurance.

Same thing about Social Security. Those getting out of college now saving a certain percentage every pay period.

Who is he trying to fool? He acts like folks have a lot of money but not everyone has money to put back every week.

[noonwitch]

35. They should get a low-interest loan to pay off their credit card

The loan payments might be smaller, and there would be a lower interest rate, most likely. A credit union may be able to help.

[frankly_fedup2]

73. Yeah, they belong to the Credit Union but the only problem with that is

(and I know it sounds like I'm knocking everyone's idea but truly I'm not and I appreciate your time making suggestions),

they would have to purchase life insurance on the loan. At their age, the life insurance on the loan would be at least $200 a month.

[Lasher]

36. I have known the VA to lie

If I understand correctly, you would like for your father to have VA medical coverage. I know some who call in to see if they are eligible, and are told that they were not. Your father might have been lied to.

Veterans' benefits have been cut no fewer than two times under the Asshole Liar Piece of Shit administration. Support the troops, ha ha. These outrages included the first introduction of means testing.

I was drafted into the Army in 1969 and got an honorable discharge after 19 months and 5 days of continuous active duty. See, you could get an early out then if you were coming back from a Hardship Tour, and if you had less than 5 months left to serve. FYI, my annual income is significantly higher than your parents' $24K.

I receive VA medical benefits, and it looks like your father qualifies as well. Please visit this web site:

http://www.va.gov/healtheligibility/home/hecmain.asp

to see if this is so.

I would be pleased to help more if that is your wish. Just send me a PM to let me know that is your wish.

On edit: I encourage all vets to apply for VA medical benefits, whether you are currently covered by another plan or not. The repukes are determined to gut all our social programs, as well as private employers' retiree medical benefits. They will continue to dismantle VA benefits, but it is wise to keep all your options open.

[frankly_fedup2]

74. I will definitely do that today. If I get some promising info, I'll IM

you. Hopefully, my dad talked to someone who didn't know all the facts. It was really surprising to me that they could not help him in any way.

Are you an insider that can make things happen there? You sounded as if you could help my dad more through the VA if he needed it, or did I misread your post????

[Lasher]

78. I am not an insider

I am a vet who is pleased to help fellow vets if I can. Since I have successfully applied for VA medical benefits that I now receive, I have been able to help steer some folks in the right direction. If I can't help I would be willing to try to find someone else who can. But there is one thing of which I am certain: If your father was on active duty continuously for 2 or more years during WWII, he is entitled to VA medical benefits. Please note, others may qualify based on standards other than the 2 years of service.

It is hard to imagine someone answering the phone at the VA who would be totally unaware of requirements to qualify for this benefit. Just speculating, it could be that there is someone who is just lazy and tells vets they don't qualify, so that they don't have to do anything.

However this goes, please let me know how it turns out, OK?

[rateyes]

37. Can you buy their home from them?

And, give them rights to occupy it as long as they are alive? Protects the house, I would think, in the event they declare bankruptcy, and gives them some additional monthly income maybe avoiding it...if you can afford it, that is. Just a thought. Not an attorney and don't know the legalities, and not suggesting you do it unless it's doable and legal. Then, when they pass, you can sell the house and pay off the mortgage and have some profit, perhaps.

Just thinking out loud here. There are others smarter than me who you need to check with.

[IndyOp]

40. That is a smart thought --

Saves the house in case they have to declare bankruptcy - medical expenses are a prime reason why people are forced to declare bankruptcy...

:grr:

[rateyes]

42. Tis true about medical expenses...

people should not have to decide between shelter and health.

[demigoddess]

48. I agree, buy the house directly from them and pay them a monthy

mortgage payment. They will feel they are doing you a favor and you will be protecting their home (and for some of us that is very important) They will have additional money to use on medical expenses etc each month and you can sell them with the idea you are saving estate taxes. And the huge interest will be going to your parents instead of the bank.

[rateyes]

51. And, if the kids can't afford it...

they could make the same arrangements with anyone else, and when the parents die, the mortgage payments could be made to the kids. I know some people who did this...bought waterfront property on the Chesapeake Bay that way.

[frankly_fedup2]

76. I wish I could. Plus, the estate tax would not even apply here in

any way. If only I were wealthy :applause:

[frankly_fedup2]

75. Boy, wouldn't that be great? I would love to do that for them; however,

that is out of my financial league. . . my sister's too. We aren't even half-way on our house now being paid, plus my sister just moved into a new house so I know they are in deep debt. Good Idea rateyes.

If I win the lottery, well . . . . .

Thanks again.

[rateyes]

79. They can sell to somebody else...

with the same provisions...self-finance it, too...giving monthly income, and then name you and your sister as the "owners" of the mortgage, so that the monthly payments go to you upon their passing. Just a thought.

They could also sell it to you very cheaply, perhaps...at least get the house protected from bankruptcy---I'd check with an attorney, however, before attempting it---might be some regulations in the law about how long a relative has to hold onto the property before it no longer subject to lien upon filing bankruptcy.

[InsultComicDog]

44. Not to doubt your story

But a 77 year old man would have been born in 1928... by 1945, the end of the war, he would have only been 17. Did he lie about his age to get in the service?

[Neil Lisst]

46. Let's suppose he's born January 31, 1928, and he's now 77.

Sixteen years later it's January 1944.

There were many, many young men who went in under age in those days. Towards the end of the war, the demand for young troops required many youngsters who wouldn't ordinarily have been accepted.

[InsultComicDog]

47. No doubt

But my father and uncle were born about the same time and they served in Korea, which is why the age jumped out at me like that

[rateyes]

52. Self-delete....

Can't freaking read. Never mind.

[displacedtexan]

45. I had to be sneaky giving my mother "money."

I would have food delivered, I would send a new TV when hers got old (too small for her to see), I would have a hairdresser go to her house (which is really easy to arrange, BTW), and I would send gift certificates.

She would never accept cash... except she finally let my brother and me split her property taxes.

Good luck!

[jillan]

49. I hear it all of the time from my dad too.

He's 87. WWII vet. Was once told that a Doctor he was referred to doesn't accept Medicare.

Let's just say he hates the administration as much as I do.

Sad!

[Jacobin]

50. I have a dumb question

WWII ended in 1945. Your dad is 77. doing the arithmetic, he would have been 17 years old when WWII ended.

I know some 16 year olds lied to get in WWII. Was he one of those?

BTW, good luck to your parents. My dad was 89 when he died last year, a WWII vet.

[frankly_fedup2]

56. I'm sorry you lost your dad last year. No matter how long we have

our parents, it is still not enough time I'm sure. I cannot imagine losing either one of mine but I know that's a part of life we all have to face eventually.

Well, to be honest, your question is not dumb at all because my dad joined the military when he was only 15 years old. Can you believe it? He looked a lot older then 15, but once the war was hot and heavy, they didn't ask for birth certificates. Plus, my dad didn't have one anyway. He was born in the house he was raised and no doctor gave my grandmother a birth certificate.

I wondered if anyone would figure that out. He said after he had been away from home for a couple weeks, he got home sick and when he heard he was going to Hawaii, he got scared. He said he called his dad (didn't tell his dad where he went until he called and told him where he was), and grandpa told him, "You made your bed now your going to have to lie in it." He said if he had told his commanding officer, they would have sent him home, but with a dishonorable discharge. He said there were a couple others that had done that and some of them told their CO's and they got put in jail before being dishonorably discharged for lying. So he was stuck but he said it made him grow up really quick.

A couple years ago the local paper heard about his story and they interviewed him and put his story on the front page on Veteran's day.

He was in Hawaii and then Japan after the atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and then Nagasaki. He helped guard the Emperor Tojo after he surrendered until MacArthur got there ( He saw MacArthur but never met him or anything) and they moved the Emperor somewhere else.

My dad went over there to help with the cleanup so, thankfully, he didn't see any combat; however, he said the Japanese would do the same things to the American Troops as they are doing to our troops in Iraq. They would blow themselves up with as many Americans as they could get. They would shoot at the troops. Some would even use their kids because they knew the troops would give them candy. I don't know how many American troops died over there due to suicide bombers and Resistance.

He has boxes of pictures that are unreal. You would not believe the devastation after those two bombings. I didn't get him to the WWII memorial when it first opened, but we are going to try to get there this spring. I told him we need to put the pictures in an acid-free photo book where they will be protected and then log a little information about each picture beside it. Then, when we get to Washington, he can donate the photos to the WWII Memorial to use as they wish but I only want one thing. I want his name to be with any of them we donate and they use. I want him to be remembered as a part of this history and those pictures will be his contribution.

I did take him to the D-Day memorial on the day Bush was there and it was being officially opened. One funny part (and only one because it was horribly hot and all the veterans were sitting in chairs in the front on top of each other and we had to wait on the "dignitaries" to get there and give their speeches. WE got there at 7 a.m. and were up at the front of the line and didn't get past the searching until 11 a.m. Once we found really good seats up front and center (about 4th row back), it really started filling up and they were all really elderly people. I was the youngest one in the crowd. My mom couldn't go, so I took him, and to be honest, with all the walking and the heat, I don't think he would have made it if I hadn't took him. It was so hot and the Sun was burning down on us. Then old people were dropping like flies from heat stroke. I was constantly having to get by the secret service to run and get as many bottles of water ($1.00 a bottle which was outrageous. It should have been free). The dignitaries were on the upper part of the memorial in tents with air and huge fans. Even the White House Press was marked off and they had the only shady area with fans blowing air on them. The media had set up a huge ramp looking thing that was up several steps up over the heads of all of the veterans, and they had fans under them. It was shameful to say the least. Falwell was there, of course. I didn't see him sweating any since he was in the tent with his nose up Bush's butt the whole time.

I brought my dad water and I just poured my bottle over my head and down my back. Then I drank a bottle. I saw how a lot of the people around us didn't look too good either so I offered to go get them some water at $1 a bottle, because none of them were moving from their seats, plus they looked like they were melting, and the concession stand was a pretty good distance from the platform. Before I knew it I had a fistful of ones and people rows back and to the side hollering for me to get them some water. I had like 40-50 one-dollar bills and as I was leaving to get the water, this one elderly man looked at me and said, "You sure have gotten an awful lot of money for water? You better bring that water back or we'll report you to the secret service." He was serious too. I was doing them a favor and he threatened me. After all was said and done, I just laughed about it. If I wasn't an honest person, I could have told a couple hundred people there I would get them water at $2 a bottle and made a huge profit. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to be honest (lol).

Wow, I got lost in that story. Sorry.

[sirjohn]

58. Capitalist credit companies don't care who they screw

We need credit to be managed by the people.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

60. it's not the banks or "companies"...

When local TV news whipped through the story last week, I couldn't believe how little interest they showed... Is controlled media a good thing? His Royal Chimpness is at the root of this one too. Here's how the story starts:

Economic blowback: You may have prepared yourself to pay nearly twice as much for gasoline this fall but, like most Americans you may be unaware that the Bush government has another big ugly surprise in store.

New regulations coming online over the next few weeks will force credit card companies to double your minimum monthly payment. It’s for your own good but if you’re living check to check and currently paying $200 a month, your new amount due could be $400 a month.

Here's the link, with the rest of the story and some advice on dealing with the problem:

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2005/09/14/credit-card-minimum-monthly-payments-to-double-this-fall/