Mark Warner ..... WHY is he running for president? That hurts us.

[Stinky The Clown]

I don't have anything against him. He governs the state next to mine and he's done a pretty good job. But let's consider something. If he ran for Senate against that empty fucking suit, George Allen, it'd be another seat for our side. A real pickup. Warner would do very well against Allen.

But no. He wants to run for president. He was born in 1954. That makes him 51. Plenty young enough to hold off for another cycle .... or even two cycles.

We NEED that Senate seat. The prez field will be crowded. He's got no name ceognition. And, much as I think he's very much an 'okay' guy, he's more than a little charismatically challenged. I don't think he'll do well at all in the Dem primaries, let alone as a standard bearer.

I sure do wish he'd just stay in his adopted state of Virginia and give us another Senate seat. Honestly .... that's more important than him running for pres. Besides .... if he beats Allen that likely finishes Allen's hopes for a run hizownself. I call that a two-fer. A Senate seat for us and a Repub candidate down before he starts.

C'mon, Mark. Do the right thing. Run for Senate.

[ddeclue]

1. Warner for Senate yay!

I like it..

[radio4progressives]

104. I like the idea of Warner running for Senate.. and We certainly Need

him to take on that position!

[snowbear]

2. The entire panel on Meet the Press said Warner will knock Hillary out...

..this past Sunday. Also said the same thing on Chris Matthews' Sunday show.

I say, let em go for it... it can't hurt! (Especially when Kaine insist he'll run with General Clark :hug: )

p.s. Kaine should know!

[Pirate Smile]

8. Warner/Clark

Clark to help deal with any questions re foreign policy? Not bad.

[catmother]

13. yes. a good team. just hope they don't tear each other apart

during the primaries.

[Kahuna]

160. Warner and Clark both have too much class to bloody each other..

They're both smart enough to know what a dynamic team they would make ... together.

[stevietheman]

30. I like Clark/Warner better n/t

n/t

[Clarkansas]

123. Clark/Warner OR Warner/Clark would be great.

[nickshepDEM]

169. Id take either, but prefer the latter...

[Pithy Cherub]

11. That's funny! Washington Insiders are not credible or accurate

and the media whores, especially those covering D.C., are usually a day late and a dollar short. :P

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Don't believe one fucking word you hear from those bozos

They're totin' the RW mantra to 'the people'. They have absolutely zero credibility.

[AmericanDream]

47. Umm... what Meet the Press was this? They all were hailing Hillary..

from what I saw and heard. You have a transcript? Is this the new year special you are talking about... if so, then no one said Warner would knock Hillary out.

[CarolNYC]

56. Geez, I hate this pushing Clark for VP

What an immense waste of his considerable talent and experience...and at a time when this country can't afford to waste such rare qualities. Clark as VP on a ticket may help the ticket win but he'd be able to do much more good in some other position if he chooses not to run for President or does not get the nomination if he does run. I didn't like the Clark for VP talk when Kerry had the nomination but was willing to accept it if it meant we'd get Bush out...but I dislike the talk even more now.

[radio4progressives]

105. That's not a face i want to look at for four years..

and as a born and raised Southerner, I am really tired of southern accents from the mouth of The Commander in Chief...

I think it's time to move on to better prospects...

[Kahuna]

161. Well then lucky for you, Warner doesn't have a southern accent..

So you'll be just fine. ;)

[NativeTexan]

116. A good ticket might be...

Clinton/Clinton.....lol......would work for me!
Then again, after this shithead we have now, my chihuahua running with my cat as VP would be a relief!!

[MADem]

188. And it could happen!! Unlikely, but COULD happen!

Bill could easily fill the VP bill, there ain't no law against it! Hell, Hillary could run, win, resign, and Bill could become Prez again (all totally legal--it's the ELECTIONS that are the sticking point) and then turn around and appoint Hillary as his VP!

[msongs]

3. he's pretty nt

[catmother]

12. good looks help.

[MADem]

189. It's the Robert Kennedy jawline...evokes an era for some n/t

[billbuckhead]

4. It's going to be a crowd of southern white men against Hillary

She'll clean their clocks in the primaries.

Warner's a standard bearer for ther telecommunications indutry. These guys and gals should have stickers on their clother like NASCAR drivers. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Dems working with corporations, I just want more disclosure of which ones they represent.

[wyldwolf]

5. name them

[billbuckhead]

35. Edwards, Warner, Bayh, Clark, at least

More will jump in. Then Russ Feinstein will try to run to the right of Hillary on some issues.

[Crunchy Frog]

38. Russ Feinstein?

Did Russ go and marry Diane and then take her last name? Is there something I don't know about?

[billbuckhead]

42. Russ needs to get married to somebody

:+

[radio4progressives]

145. He's been married twice - we don't need to stepford wife in the wh

i'm sick to death of this political culture promoting phony imagery replicating something that doesn't exist for many real people and real communities.

it's time to get real for a change.

[spooky3]

173. well put!

[Pithy Cherub]

43. You mean to the left of Hillary. She's got the right covered. n/t

[billbuckhead]

46. Just keep thinking that

I agree with Bartcop.

[Pithy Cherub]

I will!

Bartcop gets one opinion and one vote just like me. ;)

[spooky3]

64. Bayh is from Indiana

he's not a southerner.

[billbuckhead]

67. Honorary southern state

Bayh will pass for southern.

[wyldwolf]

121. I'm going to claim that Massachusetts is an honorary southern state

and that Kerry will pass as southern.

[billbuckhead]

124. Massachussetts doesn't border Kentucky

and doesn't have a long history of rightwing poilitics.

[wyldwolf]

134. so... that's the qualifier?

A state is an honorary southern state if it borders one and has a long history of rightwing politics?

[spooky3]

135. I don't think Southerners will think so.

[radio4progressives]

146. I'm a southerner that says it's time to end the tyranny of the southern

culture and the southern vote.

editing to say, i'm a southern ex-patriot - and damn proud of it.

[billbuckhead]

151. You mean expatriate

[wyldwolf]

120. Bayh is southern?

And what about Biden, Kerry, Richardson. Southern?

[Andromeda]

187. You mean Russ Feingold.

:)

[snowbear]

9. Hillary clean Warner's clock?

LOL..

Not even Timmy boy agrees with that one! He's another one who said he's the only one who will knock her out of the primaries.

[billbuckhead]

27. But I thought the media elites and Republicans were for Hillary

:wtf:

[snowbear]

48. They are....

But the political analysts are scoping out who's wracking in the big bucks, who's making multiple trips to New Hampshire, and who the public seem to be attracted to.

The panel called Warner the "anti-Hillary candidate"

They said he's able to attract liberals, centrists, and gun-toting NASCAR dad's (especially the NASCAR types considering his background with NASCAR)

Chris Matthews was almost in tears when he had to agree with the rest of them that Mark Warner will likely emerge on top; knocking Hillary for a loop.. He wants Hillary big time.. http://eliteleague.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/lol!.gif

[Pithy Cherub]

52. Warner's a snore zone in California.

Cash collected has come from Virginia and is noticably absent from California (Clinton$$$$), Texas (Clinton$$$$$), and New York (and ALL about CLINTON$$$$$$). The Chairman of the California Democratic Party confirms just weeks ago - NO BUZZ for Warner in the US's wealthiest state. Let's see if Warner can get Senator Boxer to endorse him...:rofl:

Virginians ponied up well for his fundraiser and he should use that to go to the Senate.

[SaveElmer]

53. Not important now...

If Warner begins to sweep primaries (which I don't think he will), his star will rise everywhere. People want to go with a winner.

[Pithy Cherub]

58. You are correct about the primaries, but I differ on the money

aspect. The money primary is huge and is starting now which is why the formation of a PAC is a significant heralding of intent. The money has to flow now because the endorsement primary will begin in earnest based on who gave what to which star '06 candidates and how much their prestige helps candidates win. Warner has one successor and would need significant cash to play. Hillary can go in 50 states and be a massive help and she's married to this guy that is absolutely beloved with African Americans who are essential to the party's hopes. Warner has a Wilder problem too. Ya gotta have the cash to play and it's in three big states.

Warner is not going to sweep primaries, especially if BOTH Clintons come out swinging.

[SaveElmer]

69. I agree mostly...

As a Hillary supporter I hope what you say is true...and there is no doubt that Warner will start behind in the money race...but he is no slouch in that department and could make a race of it...

Not sure what you mean by Warner having a Wilder problem...are you referring to former Governor Wilder? Not sure what problem he has with Wilder that could cause him any significant trouble.

[billbuckhead]

71. Doug Wilder still is very powerful and might endorse Hillary

Wilder could have been the first black president, he was close.

[SaveElmer]

75. I live in Virginia...

Not sure if you do...but Wilder is not as powerful as he used to be...he's currently the mayor of Richmond and carries some weight, but he is nowhere near as popular as Warner..

His endorsement of Hillary would have no effect here I don't think, and even less countrywide. The point may be moot though, Wilder did endorse Kaine pretty emphatically, and I believe he and Warner have patched up any differences they may have had.

[billbuckhead]

70. Hillary will get a huge women's vote as well

Women and minorities give Hillary a base of 60%. Warner's biggest hope is to get the NRA types behind him. Didn't work for Dean and won't work very well for him either.

But after the neoCONS shuffle the deck with the "NEW WAR", who knows what's in store?

[Pithy Cherub]

78. That NEW WAR thing is downright SCARY!

My chips and chits are in the Clark camp because of the immense national security dimensions. In no way will I underestimate Hillary. Warner is a neophyte without a large natural true believer's base of support.

[billbuckhead]

84. I'm in the general for VP camp. I did vote for Clark in the 2004 primary

and had 4 Clark bumperstickers on my car. By the time it came to Georgia, the race was long over, but I proudly voted for Clark anyhow. I think Clark's biggest obstacle was NPR. They never said a good thing about him the 3 times they mentioned him. It sure would be great if America picked the smartest guys instead of the one they would like to have beer with even though he's supposed to be a teetotaling fundie.

I just think that the Clinton team has the best chance of winning and also the best chance of making a difference when they do win. There's plenty of political ambushes ahead. (Maybe even some real ones)

[Pithy Cherub]

88. Alas, My vote in California was the same as yours in Georgia.

I wanted intellect and savvy. We got stale beer and pretzel crumbs. Clark's smarts and savvy still win for me.

Hillary has a wealth of reasons to run and many real reasons why it won't be a walk in the park or an easy win. It may end up being one of the harshest primary seasons ever. I'm sticking with Clark until the very very end - who knows maybe Hillary can be his VP. ;)

[billbuckhead]

87. Wes Clark's been saying for years we should reach out to Iran

Wes Clark's been saying for years we should reach out to Iran in a forceful but diplomatic way. The world needs us to get along.

These "people" in there now, just see differences with Iran as an opportunity for another marketing campaign. Shock & Awe Supersized Edition.

[karynnj]

112. On what basis are you assuming that

women will vote that heavilly for Hillary.

[billbuckhead]

125. The first credible woman candidate for President

Even if she only gets half the womesn vote that's a 25%+ a lion's share of minorities. It will take a lot of gun wielding NASCARs nuts to make up for that advantage in a crowded field.

There' a whole generation of young women who grew up with Hillary who are looking for her to break the ultimate glass ceiling for all women.

[Frances]

128. Where are you from?

I like Hillary, but I think she'll get only a small percentage of women votes in the red states (I grew up in a red state). I know that the great majority of white males in red states hate Hillary. It's not fair, but there it is.

[billbuckhead]

150. I work in one of the reddest counties in America

Hillary will easily carry Georgia in the primary.

[elizm]

159. Yes, in the primaries...BUT

....she doesn't stand a chance in the general election. The best way for us to hand another victory to the Republicans is to run Hillary! I live in a red state (sadly) and she is hated by both men and women!!

[catmother]

153. yes. i'm one of them. that doesn't mean that she's my choice

for president. many years ago when i lived in new york congresswoman bella abzug was running for mayor -- so was ed koch. my women friends wanted bella (i think because she was a woman) but i felt that ed koch would be the better mayor. i will not vote for hillary in the primary but if she is the nominee -- then she gets my vote -- any democrat will -- except lieberman.

[xkenx]

148. Hillary doesn't even have Dem. women

And Rethug women would vote for ME before Hillary. Where do you get this information?

[wisteria]

175. Don't assume anything. I want to see a woman running our

country someday, but I want a woman who really deserves it and will serve as a true roll model for us all- I don't think that Hillary is the one. As a woman I am very reluctant to give her support or my vote.

[catmother]

179. i agree. if she's the nominee i'll vote for her, but not in the primaries

[Pirate Smile]

73. Right. The one positive about the Iowa/New Hampshire set-up -

just because you have the most money, it doesn't mean you will win. Voting is not just based on 30 second commercials.

[Clark2008]

72. And, yet, she'll STILL lose the general election.

You obviously don't venture out to purple or red states too often.

[Pithy Cherub]

82. Does Texas, Wisconsin, Mississippi, Georgia or North Carolina count?

Go to them often! :)

I said nada about the general - the strategy right now is money is the key to political survival in the primaries. The folks here in Cali are conditioned to give to Clinton and lot's of it. Just sayin' it will be a hard habit for folks to change. I say that as a Clark fan! That's why the money primary and endorsement primary will be so closely watched through 06.

[Pirate Smile]

89. I don't think it will be watched as closely anymore because remember

how the big thing in 2004 was that whoever had the most money by the Iowa caucus always won.

Well, Dean had the most money but he didn't win, so that blew that benchmark away.

[Pithy Cherub]

90. Precisely because of that is why it will be closely watched.

Who will opt in for public financing, who can afford to opt out and the could opt out but won't, will be the new entrant. The *media* also has learned no new lessons and will be filing template reports from Iowa and New Hampshire. Money matters even more now, sadly. It sets up *momentum* stories.

[Pirate Smile]

93. True. In our current screwed up fiscal campaign state, anyone with

a shot at winning the nomination will opt out.

McCain and Allen both will opt out and whoever the top Dems are will opt out as well.

Whoever it is, will get a boatload of money from small checks when the race is hot.

At this point during the last election, very few people knew who Dean was and Lieberman was who the pundits yapped about.

[rpannier]

119. In 1990, if you said Bill Clinton in California he'd have had no buzz

It's amazing what a few years will do.

[Pithy Cherub]

131. Nope. Clinton had California friends that were major players

and donors. People conveniently forget that.

[Virginia Blogger]

136. YES!

So True. And from what I hear he didn't even raise 2.5 - He raised 1 something and they put everything else the committee had ever raised towards to event total. Of course a governor who is mentioned for president will launch a committee and raise a couple million the first time. But these are just from his biggest supporters. Outside of the state no one is impressed. Same old speech he reads word for word. If he really cares about us Virginians he will run for Senate and knock off Allen.

[Kahuna]

162. He who laughs first laughs last.

Just sayin.

[Clark2008]

63. How can another DLCer be the "anti-Hillary?"

Makes no fucking sense!

Media whores. :grr:

[snowbear]

66. Hey... Clark supports DLC'ers...

Like Kerry and others..

And I support Clark. So.. :shrug:

[Clark2008]

68. That wasn't my point.

My point is that Warner can't be the opposite of Hillary since they're both DLC - they're from the same wing of the party.

The opposite of Hillary would be Clark or Feingold or Kucinich.

[Virginia Blogger]

137. do you

do you think clark would really take on hillary and bill?

[Virginian]

95. Tweety is on the dark side. If he wants Hillary in the primaries, it is

because he doesn't think she can win in the general election.

[xkenx]

147. Matthews HATES Hillary

If he wants her bad, it's just for the Rethugs to get what they want--to run against her.

[Lefty48197]

139. Remember when the NRA said they were going to clean Bill Clinton's clock?

It must be nice and shiny right about now.

[catmother]

10. my husband listens to r-wing radio and came home the other

day and said that they like warner because he'll beat hillary.

personally, right now warner is my choice, but there's still time. someone else may come along that i like better.

my moderate republican husband says he'll vote for him.

[snowbear]

The Freepers are TERRIFIED of Warner...

LOL !!!!

Especially since (according to Tim Kaine).. he and General Clark want to link up..

~ :patriot: ~

[Clark2008]

65. I don't believe Tim Kaine ever said that.

You keep repeating that - so will you provide the link?

"Raising Kaine" is run by a Kaine SUPPORTER, not Kaine and Warner/Clark is the blogger in question's dream ticket - that was my take on it.

[Virginia Blogger]

141. Kaine never said it.

[Kahuna]

163. A Clark/Warner team seems like a natural to me and a foregone

conclusion. I see a lot of the qualities that attracted me to Clark in Warner. My grandest hope is that they will team up.

[Stinky The Clown]

39. If the whores and charlatans who pose as pundits say Warner is

better than Hillary, then bet on Hillary. They wouldn't be saying that if they honestly thought he could win. You're being manipulated. Its what they do. Manipulate.

[AmericanDream]

49. Agreed.. that is common sense. nt

[catmother]

21. warner was born in connecticut. so he's not a real southern

white man.

on edit: sorry he was born in indianapolis. i think he grew up in connecticut.

[Pithy Cherub]

6. That would actually be logical since Virginians like him.

He's going to spend the next two years doing what exactly that helps him be thought of as presidential...:shrug:

[spooky3]

7. I wish he would do what you want too but

he has said he does not think he would like doing Senate work under the present conditions. I am sure that I would not either and I am sure many other DUers would feel the same.

I would rather that he try for President than return to the private sector, which is his more likely option. If nothing else, it keeps the Rethugs and their media friends from pushing for a preemptive candidacy for Sen. Clinton.

[babylonsister]

14. Aren't there any other viable Dem options, against Allen? nt

[nickshepDEM]

170. Honestly? No. Fmr. Sec. of the Navy James Webb or Fmr Sen. Chuck

Robb would probably be our best shots...

[Frances]

15. In order for a Dem to become president,

he/she has to have a fire in the belly. I think Warner has it. Personally, I would much prefer to see Hillary in the Senate than Warner. I like Hillary a lot and I would like a woman president, but I think Warner will do a lot to unify the country, and that's very important for the survival of this country as a democracy. Even if Hillary were to win the presidency, the country would stay divided. If Warner wins, I think that the country could start to heal. And I think we could have a 2 party system again.

[snowbear]

16. I agree... Warner and Clark will pair up well..

And hey.. we don't even know if Hillary will run in 2008.

The General has fire in his belly for sure, but if anyone doubts that Mark Warner doesn't -- catch some of his videos at his PAC. :o :o :o

http://www.forwardtogetherpac.com/

Impressive stuff!

[catmother]

18. oh frances you are so right. i agree that he will help the country

heal. hillary seems to be a good senator and she could aspire to maybe one day be the majority leader.

[Stinky The Clown]

41. I'd rather see BOTH Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Warner in the Senate. n/t

[Virginian]

97. Then Virginia would have two Mr. Warners in the Senate.

I would love for ANYONE to beat Grinning George Allen out of his senate seat. He is not worthy. He doesn't represent the citizens of Virginia, he represents the Bush administration. I bet he stays up late studying the talking points so that he always stays on message. Allen just looks like the slimyist, back stabbing, social climber I have ever imagined.

I like Mark Warner and will vote for him. Any office he desires, he has my vote.

[AtomicKitten]

156. I think the rift is irreparable.

As long as Faux News and the talking heads are allowed to spew their lies and hate, there will always be those partisan wingnuts anxious to lap it up.

And I don't see them lightening up any candidate the Dems put forward. We've seen their work. They are excavating dirt as we speak on all potential contenders, Swift Boat Liar stuff. I don't think it really matters what candidate the Dems put forward, they will eviscerate him/her, and will have plenty of money to do it.

Sorry for the pessimism. It's just really ugly out there.

[crispini]

17. Southern governors are good candidates.

Senators, not so much. Senators build a long voting record that can get held against them.

I would be very favorably inclined to look at ANY governor, and especially a Southern one.

Not that my opinion matters a rat's ass, since our fecking primaries are so late in the year and I essentially do not get a voice in who the candidate is.

Anyone know what the DNC decided about primaries? I'm sick of having these very white, very Northern states decide who our candidate is going to be.

[Frances]

19. Where do you live?

I live in California and our primary is too late to make any difference. However, my friends here do't know anything about Warner. I think Warner will have a better chance to become known in New Hampshire and in Iowa than here in California where he is not known. (I know him because I used to live in Maryland.)

And responding to a previous post, I think Warner/Clark would be a good ticket. But even if Clark isn't on the ticket, I think he should have an important post in a Dem administration.

I wonder about a Warner/Richardson(Hispanic governor) or a Warner/Schweitzer (Western governor) ticket too.

I voted for Edwards in our primary, and I hope he gets a post in a Dem administration, but I prefer not to see someone who has run before on a Dem ticket. I think we should put forth new faces.

[crispini]

24. I live in Texas.

Realisticially, this state is awfully big to run in cheaply. Yours is like that too. The governor's race here ypically costs about 15-20 million to run in. I do think that some of the front primaries should be smaller states, but I think we should rotate in some of the bigger states from time to time to give all of us a voice.

And the thing is that if you KNOW you're going to make a difference in the primary, then you have the chance to educate yourself about the candidates. I don't think Warner is well known here but I think people are willing to learn and it's mostly political junkies that vote in the primaries.

[Pirate Smile]

33. I believe the plan is to put 1-2 caucuses between the Iowa caucus and

the New Hampshire primary.

What states will be added? - one from the south and one from the west.

Iowa is still the first caucus and NH is still the first primary.

[crispini]

45. Nice.

Some geographical diversity, good.

Didn't realize there were other states out there that still did caucuses. Cool.

[Virginian]

99. Amen. n/t

[kstewart33]

20. Clinton had no name recognition when he ran in 92.

Don't underestimate Warner. In my book, he is the strongest candidate we have so far.

[judy from nj]

22. Agree

He isn't going to make it as the presidential nominee. The country is going to be looking for the "anti-bush", not a green 1 term governor. National security will be the major issue in the campaign, and Warner has no credibility there. My guess is that he is running for VP. However, he could do more for the party by taking out Allen.

[politicasista]

23. He thinks he's Bill Clinton (LOL!) n/t

[David Dunham]

25. Warner won't run because Allen can rebound and beat Warner in 06

Allen is a very skilled politician who is still fairly popular in VA. He can beat Warner for the Senate, which would destroy Warner's presidential chances.

[snowbear]

26. Oh take a hike....

Must be Friday...

[SaveElmer]

51. He's got a point...

Warner beating Allen is not a gimme. Allen's approval numbers are nearly as high as Warner's. It would be a tough campaign. And if the state began to tank and Kaine's popularity dropped, Warner could be dragged down!

[onenote]

129. "take a hike"? -- thorough analysis there

BTW, its now Saturday, and guess what, it still is not a sure bet that Warner would defeat Allen. What is a sure bet is that it would be a bruising, expensive battle. That said, I wouldn't mind if Warner ran, but its not a shock or surprise (or particularly "selfish") for him not to...

onenote

[SaveElmer]

50. That is a very good point...

As popular as Warner is, Allen is nearly as popular...Warner defeating Allen would by no means be assured. If Warner did lose to Allen that would probably deal a death blow to his Presidential chances...

He could win the seat held by John Warner, presuming the Senator retires as expected in 2008, but then of course, he would have to wait until at least 2016 to run.

I'm supporting Hillary, and I think she will beat all comers including Warner in the primaries. But if Warner did get the nod I would have no trouble supporting him. I live in Virginia and know what an effective Governor he has been.

[NCarolinawoman]

28. Anybody know how many terms Bill Clinton served as governor?

[snowbear]

32. Dunno... but what I know about Mark Warner is...

In Virginia you can only serve ONE term. And in that term, he took the state from rock-bottom to the "2005 Best Managed State in the Nation"

Face it.. the guy has a lot going for him.

[billbuckhead]

40. In Arkansas, the governor runs every two years

Clinton won 5 times and lost once.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton>

[madfloridian]

29. Getting a little tired of Southern governors and religion dominating.

I am a little tired of the emphasis on appealing to the Republicans. I want someone to appeal to the party base.

Warner may be fine, but his words indicate he wants to privatize Medicare and Social Security. His words indicate he wants our party to just be talking nice. Remember when he went to the LATimes and said that some of our Democrats were catering to the left too much.

This statement bothers me, as I think it shows a misunderstanding of the situation.

"Warner, who is in his final year as governor and is considered a possible 2008 presidential contender, argued that Democrats could not simply cater to their liberal base if they were to succeed politically on a national scale."

Warner -- who is thought to have presidential potential because of his bipartisan accomplishments as a governor in the South -- said that his party's positioning on social issues had left rural and small-town voters with a "sense of some Democrats' belittling their lives, their culture and their values."

He said he experienced that sentiment during a trip to California, where he felt that some people were condescending because he came from Virginia.

" 'You little Virginia Democrat, how can you understand the great opportunities we have?' " Warner said in characterizing the attitude he encountered. "I came out saying, 'That's why America hates Democrats.' "

And he makes me uncomfortable the way he talks about not giving subsidies for hip replacements in the very elderly...and other things.

The governor was open to discussing policy alternatives often shunned by liberal Democrats because they involved shifting more financial responsibility onto individuals. Among the options he said should be looked at: encouraging individuals to rely on private insurance rather than Medicaid to cover long-term care; limiting subsidies for expensive treatments such as hip replacements for the very old; and preventing employers with young, healthy workers from dropping out of insurance risk-sharing programs.

Warner was not specific about what he would do to deal with Social Security's long-term financing, except to say he thought that shoring up Medicare and Medicaid were much more urgent.

Still, he said that Democrats sometimes were too wedded to defending the New Deal-era retirement program without considering how it might be improved for current conditions. "The program itself becomes sacrosanct, rather than what the goal ought to be -- how do we protect folks in their senior years," he said.

Social Security IS sacrosanct...and I would like to ask him who makes the hip replacement decision. And how elderly poor could get private insurance...so many questions.

Los Angeles Times - Los Angeles, Calif.
Author: Janet Hook
Date: Jun 10, 2005
Start Page: A.25
Section: Main News; Part A; National Desk
Document Types: News
Text Word Count: 616

The link is defunct, but I purchased the article. The original quotes are from a thread at MyDD in June or July.

[politicasista]

31. Not directed at the OP, but.....

some are losing sight of our goal: 2006. 2008 will work itself out.

[Stinky The Clown]

44. This thread is EXACTLY about 2006. And the VA Senate race that will be

going on in the 06 cycle. The one in which I want to see Warner run against Allen (the empty suit).

[Oversea Visitor]

34. Boxer for VP

That is one tough cookie who will do what she think is right.
She wont be a Yes Women
A very good check and balance VP I say.

[Tiggeroshii]

37. Agreed.

We really need the help.

Especially if all these repugs getting swept away fromt eh Abramoff scandal guarantees teh house, we aren't as much guaranteed the Senate. We need the man.

[Virginian]

100. I hope Allen goes down with Abramoff.

But I haven't seen his name on any of the scandal lists.

[PWRinNY]

54. No time to settle now

Just because we're all so sick and tired of bushie and the republicans doesn't mean we should just settle for the first new face to come along for prez. Doesn't sound like any of us are very excited about Warner for prez, does it? Nothing against Warner, he's a fine person and all, but where is the excitement we should be seeing if he's such a great candidate for president? If democrats can't even get excited about a potential nominee, then why would we think the rest of the country would either?

Now is certainly the time to shop, but definitely no time to settle for someone who fizzles out. Just because we're so afraid of Hillary running doesn't mean we should get behind some lackluster candidate. We need someone who's going to unite the country AND keep the left happy. I know that I, personally, would not be happy with Warner. I wouldn't be unhappy, but certainly no excitement and warm fuzzies about him. Sure, if he does become the nominee, he'll have my vote. But I want to vote FOR someone, not against Hillary. I want someone I can really support for president, not just settle for.

[catmother]

55. i've said earlier right now warner is my choice but if someone

comes along that i like better i'll change. a lot can happen in 3 years.

welcome to DU

[PWRinNY]

57. Thanks for the welcome! nt

[Pirate Smile]

80. I was going to say Welcome but I see you've been around for a long time.

I like many of the potential candidates.

It does seem like many have already picked their horse for the race.

There is a lot of time and I'm sure there will be many surprises.

2006 should be the focus. I normally avoid the 2008 chatter. I responded because I hadn't heard the Warner and Clark blather or the MTP comments.

Warner has already decided not to run for the Senate. I hope VA has some other options, although I haven't heard any.

[Kahuna]

172. 40 posts and you KNOW how people feel about Warner?

What an amazing talent you have. :eyes:

[PWRinNY]

193. The art of listening

Just because someone doesn't post much (on THIS site) doesn't mean that person isn't listening. Usually the one doing less talking does the most listening. Perhaps it's a talent. Perhaps it's just observation. At any rate, nobody needs 1000+ posts (on THIS site) in order to do a lot of listening. Thanks for your compliment, I'll take it as such.

[tkmorris]

59. I agree

Warner is approximately as exciting as televised chess.

I don't get what people see in him as a presidential candidate. I really don't.

[Auntie Bush]

60. I agree with you Husb ...but if Allen can't run then McCain will get

the nomination and he would be easier for Dems to beat than McCain. Too many independents and turned off Rethugs will vote for him. I think McCain will be the hardest one to beat. In fact I know lots of Dems that hate bush* and the Fundamentalist that would vote for McCain. He's also getting a lot of credit for REFORM of the congress and it looks like he'll getting a lot more.

[catmother]

83. McCain has a lot of people fooled. as an arizonan he had me

fooled for a few years. he's a typical politician. number 1 he's too old, he's had skin cancer a few times, his temper is really bad -- he got so angry at a meeting once that he actually passed out. do they want this man with his finger near the button? he also slipped and referred to the vietnamese as "gooks". no i don't think he'll be the nominee but if he is and gets elected "god help us".

[Auntie Bush]

96. Now that's scary! But will the public ever find out or believe it? n/t

[catmother]

133. i heard about it a few years ago. nt

on edit: i believe it came out when McCain was running for prez last time. it will probably come out again if he tries.

[BigYawn]

194. McCain is perceived as being 10 times better than Dubya by

most centrist voters. Whether they are right or wrong, no
one knows. I have to believe McCain is far less right wing
extremist than Dubya and add to that he is a better politician.
His age could work against him, but only if his health restricts
him from campaigning. Was'nt Raygun even older when he ran?

I agree with all those who believe McCain will be the hardest to
beat in 2008.

[usregimechange]

61. I agree.

[autorank]

62. We agree and I'm in VA and I like him.

This deserves it's own thread but Warner today agreed to test the surviving DNA of an executed Virginian who maintained his innocence for years. The guy was executed pre-Warner and without the Republican Governor testing the DNA. Warner is doing some cool stuff on the way out and this is one of them. Huge case in VA justice and we'll lead the way, thanks to JW, if the executed man is exonerated.

He's running because he thinks he can do the job. He's looking in all directions for money. He's modifying his image as moderate conservative but high tech, very smart. He's in the same ball park as Clark, but more cautions politically. As a "governor" the guy is brilliant and he knows it because he was there when he got the heavily Republican legislature to pass a tax reform package that's equivalent to what Clinton did in '94. He had no choice because of lies told by the previous Governor and he acquitted himself well. He's a closet liberal and will make that known at the right time. For two years running, at least, VA got the "best managed state in the union award" meaning best Governor. Oh, he helped start Nextell, made a bundle and left much more on the table to enter public service. He's honest too!

I'd like to see him move left now, without fanfare, and tell DLC (whom he's using, IMHO, because nobody runs this guy) to take a hike. He doesn't have the boldness to do that. He'd be a good #2 to Clark, one hell of a team.

But you're right, I'd like to see him take out Allen, who is really lousy as a Senator and whose constituent services just suck. Nobody goes to him for anything (well not us common folk;)

Warner for Senate, Mark not John!

[Virginian]

103. Do you think that DNA thing was to help Kaine?

I know Kaine is personally against the Death penalty, but he ran to the right of it. He promised that he would not second guess the decision of a jury and pardon death row inmates.

If this DNA test shows that the state executed an innocent man, then there will be a moratorium on the death penalty.

I don't know if the governor was Allen or Gilmore when this man was executed, but he refused to allow the DNA testing to save the man. If it was Allen, that should be a campaign issue in '06. He executed an innocent man when a test could have proven the man was innocent. Gilmore was trying to disallow appeals based on new evidence if the conviction was more than two(?) years earlier. I think it was two years, I could have that wrong.

Allen thinks George Bush is his constituent, He represents Bush in the Senate instead of the citizens of the Old Dominion. He has those right wing talking points memorized to the letter and never gets off message with the White House. He Rubber Stamps every piece of legislation Bush wants whether it is good for Virginia or not.

[Pirate Smile]

114. Douglas Wilder was governor.

"Before Coleman's scheduled execution, Governor Douglas Wilder agreed to grant clemency if Coleman passed a polygraph test. Coleman failed the test just hours before he was executed."

http://www.quixote.org/ej/grip/reasonabledoubt/Roger%20Keith%20Coleman.html

[Virginian]

118. Ooofff (sound of wind knocked out of a person) Wilder's a Dem.

But his Republican opponent was a Coleman.

That was still pretty early in DNA testing, even for MCV.

[Sparkly]

109. FINALLY!!! I'm glad to know this.

Thanks, autorank!! God only knows why he waited so long to do it, but I'm glad he FINALLY moved in the right direction at the last minute.

[Zynx]

74. Excuse me, but I will not yield to an obvious ploy to annoint Hillary

or someone else. This is a thinly veiled attempt on the original poster's part. In the interests of disclosure, could they please state which candidate they support? I want to know why this poster has written such a shrill piece of shlock.

[CarolNYC]

77. Perhaps

because they'd like to see a Dem majority in the Senate. :shrug: It would be a good thing if it could happen, no?

Perhaps not everyone is looking at 2006 through a 2008 lens.

I attended a fundraiser for Eric Massa, who is running for Congress in NY's 29th Disctrict, last night and the thing I came away with from all who spoke last night was how vitally important it is that we gain back seats in both houses of Congress. Do you disagree with this? There may not BE a 2008 if we don't pull in the reins on these idiots in the WH and soon!

[Zynx]

79. That's the claim of all the anti-Warner people.

I doubt their sincerity.

[CarolNYC]

81. The poster is not anti-Warner...

or at least the post isn't...You don't think taking back Congress is important? You really see only 2008 and don't see 2006? It really is SO important...

[clarknyc]

85. Is my opposition an obvious ploy?

If Warner is the nominee, I will support him without reservation. If Hillary is the nominee, I will support her without reservation.

H O W E V E R !

I'm sick of the "southern governor syndrome" and I dread the prospect of another referendum on all things Clinton. Damn! There has to be an alternative to this weak choice.

Maybe we should focus more on 2006 for the moment. Whatever happens this year will have a tremendous impact on the next race. We have to control at least one congressional house before we can even begin to dream of an effective Democratic executive.

[Frances]

130. I understand where you are coming from

But I think we have to be practical. If we had a candidate from the West or Southwest or Midwest who had a good chance at being the Dem nominee, and then winning the general election, that would be ideal. But I don't see that as a possibility right now.

That leaves the Northeast and the South. Kerry was our last nominee and he was from the Northeast. I supported Kerry in the gneral election, but I think it's best to try a new face now. For that reason, I prefer not to have Clark as the presidential nominee either. He ran for the nomination in 2004 and is an "old" face. The same is true of Edwards. However, I would like to see both have important positions in a Dem administration. We could certainly use their brains, competence, and integrity. But that won't happen if we don't have a Dem as president.

I have lots of relatives in red states. I think that Warner would win more votes there than any other Dem being discussed at this time. I think McCain would give Warner the most competition, but I am hoping that the Repubs won't vote for him in the primaries. If Warner could carry the states Kerry won plus Virginia, which I think he would, he would in good shape

[Pirate Smile]

86. I don't believe Husb2Sparkly is a Hillary supporter. I believe he likes

Clark.

It is a valid point to think Warner should try for the Senate. He would be the strongest Dem challenger and we need to pick up seats. But he has already said no.

[Stinky The Clown]

94. Excuse me? You seem to know me well. Except you're dead-assed wrong

Now, I won't alert on you and your attack on me personally by your unfounded assumptions about my motivations for this thread.

But read the thread's original post again.

It says not a damned thing about Hillary. If you took the time to research me instead of just yammer on about that of which you know not a damned thng, you'll find I am fairly consistent in saying that I am opposed to Mrs Clinton running for president because I think it is a bad thing for the Democratic party. I am also quite sure the original post did not even mention Mrs Cinton or allude to her.

This thread is about why **I** think Mark Warner is far more valuable to us as a party running against George Allen for Virginia's junior Senate seat. This thread is all about 06. The only reason it even alludes to the 08 presidential race is because Warner quite obviously is sitting out any activity in the midterm to keep his powder dry for 08.

I think that's bad for the party and that's what I said.

So stop making shit up and stay on topic, okay?

Shrill piece of schlock, my ass.

Bite me.

[Pirate Smile]

98. LOL. The cranky clown face in your sig line fits perfectly tonight.

Even before the post I'm replying to, while reading through the thread, I had already thought that about your sig line.



:D

[quisp]

76. I'd like to see a Warner/Richardson ticket n/t

[thatsrightimirish]

91. I notice

That every single day we argue about Warner. Enough already!

[SaveElmer]

92. Warner is the new Hillary....

In that regard anyway!

[Kahuna]

166. LOL! So true. The other day it was about the DNA test for the guy..

who was executed in 1992.. LONG before Warner became govenor of VA.. Now that Warner has ordered the test (which is a principled act in my opinion) I can't find one thread about that.

[Pirate Smile]

180. There were multiple threads about it when the news first came out.

[SaveElmer]

101. Problem with this is...

Warner defeating Allen is by no means a sure bet...

At this moment I would give Warner a slight edge...but Allen is nearly as popular here (inexlicably so), as Warner is. Any downturn in the Virginia economy or missteps by Kaine could rebound on Warner. If he were to lose the senate race that would doom him nationally in all likelihood.

[Sparkly]

102. But Warner's whole claim to fame

is his success in VA. And yet he couldn't beat ALLEN?!?

[Virginian]

106. Name recognition.

George Allen is the son and namesake of a beloved Redskins football coach. Virginia doesn't have a team of their own, so many throughout the state are Redskin fans.

Of course some of the uninformed might confuse Mark Warner and John Warner and think they are voting for the other guy who used to be married to Elizabeth Taylor.

[SaveElmer]

108. That's true...

Mark Warner gave John Warner a run for his money in the 1996 Senate race I think. I remember the bumper stickers Mark had - "MarkNotJohn" I always wondered how many votes Mark got from the name confusion.

[Sparkly]

110. Mark Warner is their freakin' governor

You mean to say most Virginians are SO stupid they don't know who their governor is -- even though most who voted, voted for him??

[Virginian]

117. He is our Governor, yes.

But the uninformed can't tell you two weeks after an election who they voted for.
Have you ever watched Jay Walking on the Leno show?
We have a Senator Warner and a Governor Warner and I'll bet you people will have a little name confusion, especially that "undecided" voter that both parties want. We also have a lot of people moving here from Maryland and other states who weren't indoctrinated in the previous election cycle.

And Sparkly, we are no more stupid than people from any other state but we are a little sensitive about being called stupid. We aren't fond of other insults either.

[SaveElmer]

107. Do you live here...?

Virginia is very schizoid in its political choices...

The same voter that praises Warner also votes for Allen...

Both have approval ratings in the high 60's with Warner slightly ahead...which means a significant chunk of Warners support is coming from people who also approve of Allen. Virginia is a naturally Republican state, and so in a contest of two equally popular politicians, the Republican will generally win.

[Sparkly]

111. As Husb said, we're right next door.

The question is whether Mark Warner has something so special that he'd make a great national candidate right now.

IMHO, he's done fine in Virginia, as a big fish in a little pond.

[SaveElmer]

115. Virginia is hardly a little pond...

It is the 12th largest state in the country, one behind NC. Northern Virginia is growing rapidly. Warner was not only successful, but spectacularly so in a predominantly Republican state where his opposition was in control of the legislature. Many believe this offers a roadmap for Democrats to follow in winning traditionally Republican states. They may be right, and it is certainly worth looking into.

[Kahuna]

164. Riight. It would be foolish for Warner to take on Allen in VA right..

now. They're BOTH popular. It's highly unlikely that Warner could knock over Allen so why try. Warner is smart enough to know this.

[BigYawn]

113. Agree 100%, Warner has neither $$, name recog or charisma of a CLINTON

Hillary will finish him off very early in the primary season.
Warner's cash won't last thru the 2nd primary against Hillary.

Big dog is already very busy reeling in big bux for Hillary's run.
And I don't believe Warner has a Tereza Heinz in the wings to finance his
campaign. If Warner had half the charisma of Bill Clinton, he could have
gotten away without a fat campaign chest.

I am not against Mark Warner becoming president. I am trying desperately
to use my brain and not my heart. My heart says Howard Dean, but then I
look at the Hillary's poll numbers, the ability of Clinton's to amass
contributions, Bill's campaigning his heart out for Hillary, and my brain
says go with Hillary.

[Virginia Blogger]

140. I feel

I feel exactly the same way. I recently got to hear her speak and no one has ever inspried me the way Hillary has. I will work my heart out in the primaries for her because she excites me and really gives me something to vote for. I'm starting today by joining the website www.VoteHillary.org which is organizing early for her.

[spooky3]

144. Warner made his own millions. What he'll run on is his effectiveness

as a governor who cleaned up messes and transformed VA into a well-run state. I have a feeling that will be an appealing theme given the state of affairs * will be leaving us with. One question is whether people will be rational and choose proven competence (in at least entrepreneurial and gubernatorial roles) vs. charisma. I think some people (in the general election) would vote for Hillary to get Bill as the behind-the-scenes president, but there are many people who will oppose her who won't be fired up to oppose Warner. How much do those factors cancel each other out?

But my prediction is that NEITHER will win the Dem nomination. I don't know who will win it, but it seems that early favorites never do.

[Kahuna]

165. Warner doesn't need a Teresa Heinz. He has his own money.

nt

[BigYawn]

182. Is Mark Warner in tjhe $500 Million class? If yes, I did not know..

[Kahuna]

190. I don't know how much money he has. But when Brian Lamb asked

him if he would be willing to part with his own money in a presidential run, he said that as long as he had enough money to provide for his family, he would.

[Clarkansas]

122. I am glad Warner is running for president.

Hillary is the one who needs to stay in the senate.

[Kahuna]

191. Amen friggin men!

:toast: Look at how long this thread got before you alone stated the obvious. :yourock:

[SteppingRazor]

126. I agree -- Warner should run for Senate. AND Hillary should stay there too

Warner wouldn't be a shoe-in to beat Allen, but he would have a very good chance, and with a Warner win, the chances of the Dems taking back the Senate would be far, far better than they are now, when we must depend on victories in Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Missouri, Rhode Island, Ohio and Montana while defending all of our currently held seats.

On the Hillary front, I think she should stay in the senate too. I don't think we can afford to lose one Senate seat. Our presidential candidate should be chosen from outside Congress.Clark's a pretty obvious choice, but there's plenty of other good ones.

On the other hand, as for Warner not having the name recognition of a Clinton, I would remind posters that Bill Clinton had very, very little name recognition in 1991.

[jackpan1260]

127. I like Warner, I hope he runs for prez. eom

[FogerRox]

132. 2006, then 2008-- we need 16 seats in the House in 2006

[Stinky The Clown]

142. Amen!

[FogerRox]

143. Amen- yes just 16 seats

[Lefty48197]

138. The NRA wants him to be our candidate

Their operatives are busy disrupting our upcoming nomination process. They'll claim that supporting Warner will bring the angry white males back into the Democratic Party, and then they'll vote for the Republican candidate on election day. Surprise...

[billbuckhead]

154. They want to legitimize the gains they made under this corrupt congress

Gun Nut Realignment Thesis Shot Full of Holes By Data
by Paul Rosenberg

A major source of static in the discussion of Chris's brilliant analysis "End Game on Bush's Approval: Realignment" came from a drearily predictable source: gun control opponents. There they were, insisting that embracing guns was the silver bullet to solve all our problems.
It just not true. First, let's peek at what they said, and then let's look at reality.

Diaries :: Paul Rosenberg's diary :: Mon Nov 14th, 2005 at 02:14:31 PM EDT


So eager were the anti-gun controllers that one of them--steveketchup--gave us this self-contradictory gem:

We don't have to change anything we stand for
All we need to do is get off the gun control bandwagon and we'll stop alienating all those Nascar dads.

Can you imagine anyone saying with a straight face:
We don't have to change anything we stand for.
All we need to do is get off the abolition bandwagon and we'll stop alienating all those spittoon dads.
<http://michael-in-chicago.mydd.com/story/2005/11/14/141431/81>
He then analyzes a bunch of Gallup polls to show we would lose votes if we jump on the NRA bandwagon.

[greiner3]

149. It's still 2 years before the big decisions have to be made;

Maybe he'll come to his senses before that and do the Senate thing!

[skipos]

152. Warner and Clark would be a great combo. nt

[catmother]

155. i joined the DU on 10/09/05. shortly after that i read some posts

about mark warner -- then i watched him on c-span. i liked him and what was interesting was that my moderate republican husband said he would vote for him. we saw him speak again -- i think it was florida and my husband was even more impressed. but i have yet to see a potential candidate who stirs up more controversy than warner. the other day there were about 4 threads going at once. at least he's got people thinking.

as far as excitement i'm 64 -- been around -- lived most of my life in new york city and there isn't too much that gets me excited any more. but i'm always happy to see warner's name -- i get on every thread and i post away -- so maybe that's excitement.

i think the last time i got excited about a politician was in the 80s when walter mondale and geraldine ferraro were on the ticket.

[AtomicKitten]

157. Oh, I can think of another.

I do believe Hillary invokes even more opposition from the further left.

[nickshepDEM]

171. Im with ya' on Warner... Mondale... Well, I was just born.

;)

Warner is great on the stump and already has me excited about 2008.

[catmother]

174. hey nick. actually i think you were the person who turned me on

to warner.

[ruggerson]

158. Flamebait n/t

[CarolNYC]

167. I understand that Harris Miller in running

for this seat. Anyone know anything about him? Does he have a shot?

[nickshepDEM]

168. Warner is an executive. Not a legislator. Some people do not mind

the transition, but from what Ive read, and trust me, Ive read a lot... Warner loves the role of executive. He likes being the guy in charge.

By the way, why are you singling out Warner? What about Napolitano in AZ, Freudenthal in WY, Schweitzer in MT, Bredesen in TN, and John Baldacci in ME? All are popular Dem Governors in states that have Republican Senators up for re-election in 2006.

[catmother]

176. probably because they're not running for president. and any

one who picks on my governor janet napolitano with have to deal with me. just joking.

on edit: i will be backing jim pedersen who hopefully will take over jon kyl's senate seat.

[wisteria]

177. I don't want to see Warner run for President either. n/t

[snowbear]

178. Good Gawd, let's STOP THE MADNESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can we please change the topic and get OFF of this "Bitch and Moan" thread ????

Please?

Why is this thing still alive? I agree with the others, we are sick of it.

KILL IT ALREADY!

[wiley]

181. Who took HHH's Senate seat when he ran for Prez

and lost?

[NoPasaran]

183. HHH didn't give up a senate seat to run for prez

He was LBJ's veep.

[wiley]

184. Okay, who filled HHH Senate seat when he became VP?

[ruggerson]

186. Wasn't it mondale?

[wiley]

192. Yes, Mondale

[fujiyama]

185. I think it makes sense

that Warner decided not to run for the senate seat.

Warner wouldn't have an easy time getting elected to the senate. VA, while becoming more democratic, is still a very republican state.

Warner is making a calculated risk, and I don't blame him.

I'm amused by those that support Hillary for president, because I have no idea what their support is based on. Her being married to an ex president? The simple fact is that outside of a few liberal areas in this country, Hillary is disliked greatly.

Warner, while not known to most of the country, started a company, made millions, then went on to successfully manage a state. Clark, similarly, had a lifetime of service in the military, becoming a four star general, becoming the Supreme Allied commander of NATO. These are accomplishments, that on just the face of it, are much more impressive than a) drunken frat boy son of former one term president, or b) wife of ex president that used the name to get elected to the senate.

Now, I will be honest in my disappointment and disgust with Hillary's senate votes in the last few years, but inspite of that, if I could see any potential universal appeal she carried, I'd willing to dismiss it.

But I don't see it. I just don't see how she'll carry any states that didn't go for Kerry or Gore in the last two elections.