OK. I think I had a FBI/CIA visitation at my mountain house today.

[DemoTex]

My beloved mountain place is on the market. This morning my real estate agent called and said that so-and-so wanted to show it at around 4 pm. At about 4:15 pm a big Nissan SUV pulls up my long driveway. Nick-Nick warns me by barking his head off.

The real estate agent gets out with two mafioso-like goons. Two 38-ish males, very straight looking, checking out a half-million dollar mountain house? As many lookers do, they ask for permission to take digital pictures. I said "OK".

I watched. The only pics they took were of my ham radio station and my antenna array. I confronted the guy, and he weaseled .. big time. Folks, we are being watched.

Mac

[AX10]

1. I see the "law and order mafia" is out again for *.

:mad:

[DemoTex]

4. Am I crazy, or what?

I feel like my property was violated because it is on the market. They have me. Nailed, I think.

Mac

[Carni]

26. Don't let anyone else take photos

I don't know what those clowns were... but just because your home is up for sale you should not be subjected to whatever random asshole taking photos of your living space.

What did your real estate agent have to say about all this?

[AzDar]

59. Absolutely right...take your own digital photos (I am surprised your

Agent hasn't already, if the property is difficult to show!),post them to the R.E. agency's site, and that way everyone can view your property...what YOU wish for them to view; nothing personal, or intrinsic to your home's security. They could be spies, burglars, who knows these days??

[Carni]

60. Good idea!

Good idea regarding the person taking their own photos for distribution and additionally I too thought those could have been thieves just plain casing the joint.

[blm]

2. Don't doubt it all, Demo...you and Doc take care.

could also be the Bob Jones Mafia... it does exist.

[babylonsister]

3. Do you think it's because of your ham radio, and why did you

grant them permission to take pix?

[DemoTex]

6. Since it is so isolated (really in the wilds), it is hard to show.

I often agree to digital pics being taken.

[SPKrazy]

5. Are you using your Ham Radio for anything illegal?

Why would they be interested in that if they were Feds?

And I don't expect an answer to the subject line as I wouldn't want you to incriminate yourself, or feel like you had to explain yourself.

I am just missing the point as to why they would be interested in the Ham stuff?

[DemoTex]

8. Nope. Straight geek radio.

Airline Ham Network, on 20-meters (14.28 mHz).

Mac

[SPKrazy]

9. So What Would Their Interest In Your Ham Be? n/t

[tirechewer]

19. Who knows.....

You don't have to "do" anything to be spied on. Asking why they have an interest in him is like asking why they are putting 4 year old children on no fly lists and then keeping them off planes even when they see they have made a mistake.:shrug:

[shadowknows69]

52. potential communication centers to shut down

n/t

[Retrograde]

69. Hams can be kinda weird when it comes to rigs

Mr. Retrograde is a ham (I am not), and sometimes they get a leeeetle carried away comparing the size of each other's equipment. The antennas and such, that is - get your minds out of the gutter :-). They even have magazines that feature pictures of big "rigs". Don't understand it myself, but it seems harmless enough.

The one time the FBI showed up at my door - long before the roof was full of antennas - they showed FBI ID cards. Or something that looked like them - I couldn't tell a real one if it bit me. They claimed they were looking for a previous resident who was doing some sort of mail fraud at that address, which given what I knew about the previous owner sounded plausible.

[Canuckistanian]

25. You've gotta be kidding

The feds are now interested in antenna arrays? If they had a lick of sense, they'd know that the airwaves are monitored 24/7.

Terrorists don't use CW or SSB or even HF voice, for obvious reasons. Even I could monitor you, hundreds or even thousands of miles away.

It just goes to show you that this admin is stupid as well as malicious.

[The Doctor.]

33. There might be two other reasons....

1)Intimidation.

-They figure the OP would interpret the visit correctly and change his, well... um... democratic behavior.

2) Tactical preparation.

-They need to know and show who has what communication capacity in the proper tactical settings...

-In which case they're still dumbasses unless they buy the place.

Either way, the OP should have said he wouldn't let anyone view the property without 'valid security clearance' and then watched their body language.

[BiggJawn]

36. Because he can listen to R. Habana with it.

Very dangerous, y'know.

Then again, maybe they think Mac is daily communications with oh-sum-guy bin fergotten...

Wonder what pretext they'd have for looking at my outfit? I rent, and besides, when I *DO* get on the air, it's on CW, and the Spooks can't get any of those glotified EMCOMM CBer's from the ARRL to decode it for them.

-... ..- ... .... / ... ..- -.-. -.- ...

[seabeyond]

62. ya, cause if you arent doing anything illegal, doesnt matter.

being really sacASTIC

[pitohui]

7. why couldn't it just as well be the dea?

they apparently don't have enough to do, years ago i was investigated and talk abt a total waste of time, resources, and multiple helicopters, it got to the point where to me it was funny since i was quite apolitical at the time and as far as drugs there was simply nothing for them to find, i once drove up to find cops jumping over my fence, but most of the time they stuck with the low-flying helicopter silliness

oh and someone offered to supply w. drugs for resale at that same time, an offer i found highly suspicious and strongly suspect was an entrapment type scheme

i don't know why the ham radio would interest them but hmmm my husband did used to be a ham, is that somehow suspicious? don't we all have cell phones now?

[Ian David]

10. Didn't the government jam HAM Radio volunteers during Katrina? n/t

[RazzleDazzle]

34. there were reports of communications being jammed -- not sure if

they were ham, but more regular. Or perhaps both.

[peacebird]

11. funny - my bedroom door onto the patio downstairs was ajar when i got home

i KNOW it was locked when i left for work and it hasn't been open since late fall... but if you don't know how to shut it then it doesn't "click".

It has been solidly shut since october. Nothing was taken. Very odd, as was the suv parked on my upper parking pad by the road last week - two people in it. We have a driveway down to the house but the pad by the road is a standard thing in the country - if it snows we can get out without shovelling the whole hill up the drive.... Anyhow I had gone home unexpectedly in the middle of the day - normally hubby and i leave at 7 and return sometime after 5 Mon-Fri.

Just weird. the bedroom door seriously upset me tho. No robbery. Nothing taken. But someone was here.

We have a home alarm system but only have the fire alarm part turned on. Maybe we should turn on the door alarm bit too.... It's in place already....

I want America back again. I liked freedom and democracy and the rule of law.

[Poll_Blind]

12. Normally I don't comment on visits like this, but this definitely....

...appears (based on your description, of course) to be a visit by someone other than who they claimed to be.

I would consult with a lawyer if I were you. I would also consider sending a Freedom of Information Act request on your own name and address. Furthermore, requesting information on your file, if you have one, from the FBI might also be a good idea.

If you find yourself in a similar situation you may grant permission for them to take photos only after you, yourself, have taken their photo.

The only thing I suggest strongly is contacting a lawyer. At least get it all "on paper" in a legal context. Who knows, the surveillance may increase to something entirely, wildly, unreasonable in which case you would have the right to seek civil damages against the perpetrators.

Thank you for sharing!

PB

[pitohui]

16. civil damages for what?

if we had a dime for every snoop who checked out our houses while they were on the market, we'd have a hell of a lot of dimes

he hasn't suffered any damages, having a digital photo taken of a ham radio set for which he is undoubtedly licensed and already on public record for having doesn't cause him any actionable damage

a lawyer will tell him the same thing but he's welcome to waste the money and perhaps it is better if he does, just to double-check

but, guess what, you are not entitled to sue just because law enforcement investigated you and you were innocent, and you wouldn't want to be, because then leos would be forced to frame everybody they even suspected, just to keep from being sued if they did happen to investigate an innocent

the cure would be worse than the disease

[ewagner]

13. That would freak me out

be careful my friend.

[LibertyorDeath]

14. They have a data base of "Subversives" you know these power freaks do

and anyone that has ever posted at DU is on it
we will all be dropped into different potential threat categories.
I imagine those who make the top tier will be any DUers who are ex Military.

Peace

[sarcasmo]

17. Again I say, BUSHCOCKSUCKERGANNON, see you on the train

to the new concentration camps Halliburton is building.

[savemefromdumbya]

21. does not match any documents on Google

hee hee!

[driver8]

27. Uh oh...I am a DUer who is ex-military!! Fuck it...bring 'em on!

I'm not afraid of these fascist weasels.

Fuck George Bush and the gravy train he rode in on.

[adigal]

41. I know I am on the database

and I don't care - they will not cower me into shutting up. We have to keep pushing, we are winning, they are losing, members of the CIA and the NSA have been whistle-blowing, think of how much courage they have and how much they have to lost by doing that. We can be brave too.

And the good thing about being a Democrat is that if I am on the list for the camps, at least I know I will be going with smart, interesting, funny people! George Clooney can make movies for us, Bruce Springsteen can sing for us, and Gore Vidal can write for us. Not too shabby.

[stevedeshazer]

15. Hams, Quakers, vegans being spied on

God bless Amerika. What's next? The internet?

Oh, wait....

[tirechewer]

23. As a matter of fact, yes....

I have have a peace blog. It is just a little two person blog attached to an antiwar board. I have a site meter which tells me who drops in on December 28 of this year I had the CIA and the DOJ on the same day. I nearly dropped my teeth. I took screen caps of the site meter and wrote an article welcoming them to the blog. I put the screen caps as graphics in the article. Here is the link if you want to look. The graphics are behind the cut.

http://platypuspool.com/blog/platypuspool/page/2/ The article is called "Someone Who Has Found What They Were Looking For"

Night before last, just before I was ready to put up an entry about Halliburton giving the troops at Camp Junction City in Ramadi, Iraq polluted water, Halliburton stopped by. If you are interested the link to that is

http://www.platypuspool.com/blog/platypuspool/index.php The entry is called "Guess Who Stopped By". I also took screen caps of them and put them up as graphics in the article. Again, they are behind the cut.

I don't know why they are taking such an interesting my blog. It's nothing special, just a 2 person antiwar blog. We are both Quakers and that might have something to do with it, but I think it's really sad anyway. They are not trying to hide themselves. They are trying to intimidate us and make us stop writing antiwar stuff. Feh. At least I know where my tax dollars are going. They are going to spy on me.

[RazzleDazzle]

37. Does the govt do anything more stupid than spy on Quakers?

Frankly, the invasion of privacy and erosion of civil liberties upsets me less than the farkin' STUPIDITY and waste of taxpayer funds on such a thing.

Not to say the privacy and civil liberties issues DON'T bother me, just that tyhis is to me the absolute epitome of stupidity and waste of money. It's like stalking all the hummingbirds and butterflies to try to find what's killing your cattle.

[tirechewer]

88. It is stupid....

But I think all of the Domestic spying and wiretapping is stupid as well as criminal. Bush is simply trying to crush all dissent so that he can continue on his path to becoming "President for Life", or perhaps King.

I think I wrote somewhere else on this board in a thread that said just how long it seemed like he had been in office. It seems like forever, and it is not a situation where you cane ever let your guard down, or simply live your life and think your own thoughts. They are taking away our civil liberties, our privacy and every bit of our freedom that they can grab. In return they are handing us war, suffering, poverty, cruelty and endless violence of both body and spirit. It is like seeing something beautiful that has been entrusted to another reduced to ashes. Real elections anyone?

Is anyone else having trouble posting? Last night and tonight the board has been sticky and sometimes when I try to post it throws me off and I can't get on again.

[druidity33]

90. yes...

I am having trouble posting and using DU... as well as the Solar Bus. Everything else seems to work fine. And my browser has quit on me (just closed all windows and shut down) more times this past week than i'm comfortable admitting. I use a Mac+Safari and have been for over 2 years and HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THIS. I was wondering if anyone else had been having trouble with this board in particular... anyone else?

[satya]

49. "I’m sorry that your monitor is so much smaller..." LOL!

Obviously, I need to get my own antiwar site up and running. Then they can spend our tax dollars to spy on me, too. If that's what they intend to do, let's keep 'em busy. 80,000+ DUers, everybody who isn't already blogging can start...

[tirechewer]

85. Good Idea...

The blogosphere needs more Democrats.:toast: I know, the crack about the smaller monitor was probably tacky, but I was not happy right then. Hopefully the DOJ guy won't suffer too badly from, uh, monitor envy.:wow:

[jberryhill]

58. Why Wouldn't You Want Them To Read Your Blog?

I must be dense, but don't you want people to read your blog?

...or you don't want certain types of people to read your blog?

Aren't they the exact people who SHOULD be reading your blog?

Did the Quakers adopt some new policy that everyone is welcome to attend meetings or read literature unless they work for the government?

[converted_democrat]

71. Are you for real?? Or is that sarcasm???n/t

[converted_democrat]

74. The Quakers are being spied on.. You think that's cool?

At first I thought your response was just sarcastic, but then I thought about it, and I think you're serious.. I belong to a Friends group, and the only people that are welcome at the meeting are people that are opposed to war.. Government spies generally don't fit into that category.. What planet are you from?

[jberryhill]

75. I'm from the planet "dense" obviously

"the only people that are welcome at the meeting are people that are opposed to war"

Would you let in someone who was undecided? Or someone who favored the war, but wanted to hear the other side?

I must have misunderstood the situation. I've been to meetings of peace groups, and I'm opposed to war, but I didn't know they weren't open to the public. If they are not open to the public then, sure, I agree there is a problem. But its one readily solved by having people sign a statement and check their ID on the way in, for the most part. Country clubs manage to deal with non-members trying to sneak in.

It just seemed odd to complain "someone who doesn't agree with me is reading my blog".

Are there any peace groups that seek to communicate their position to people who disagree, but might do with some education?

[converted_democrat]

77. Peace groups are open to people that are peace minded..

Gov. employees there just to see what's going on don't fit.. They have no business there, and they shouldn't be there.. The DOD has no business looking at peace blogs.. They obviously aren't there to learn about peace, since they work for the DOD.. So, other than them spying, what else makes sense.. Nothing...

[jberryhill]

78. Daniel Ellsberg worked for the DoD

"They obviously aren't there to learn about peace, since they work for the DOD"

...and are thus precisely the people who should hear what you have to say.

I don't want to make an age assumption, but does the name "Daniel Ellsberg" mean anything to you?

What kinds of things do you think led him to decide to do what was right?

[converted_democrat]

79. Give me a break.... 1 person out of how many...

The whole point is that we are being spied on from every angle.. It isn't cool, period..

They DO NOT have any business on a peace blog.. They have no business at a peace gathering.. Stop making excuses for why it's okay, because it's not.. They have no right to spy on us.. Period..

ps- If it is just someone surfing, they should be fired.. My tax dollars aren't there to fund web surfing..

[jberryhill]

80. 1 Person?

Daniel Ellsberg was "1 person out of how many" that exposed the lies we were being fed, and was instrumental in galvanizing opposition to the war and getting public opinion moving forcefully in the other direction.

You don't know how many potential Ellsbergs there are, right now, who need a nudge in the right direction.

"If it is just someone surfing, they should be fired.. My tax dollars aren't there to fund web surfing."

Yes, every dollar saved by the government cracking down on wasteful web surfing will buy another bullet.

I'd prefer that most of the DoD looked at porn all day, myself.

[converted_democrat]

82. Some how you keep missing the entire point...

They have no business in our shit!! I'm sorry to be so frank, but I'm not in a real good mood as of recently.. I used to be a puke, and I came over to this side to help, and I've had some bad things happen.. Right after I signed up for the peace group, much of my mail now comes to me already opened, (I wrote about it back in Aug., here on DU before we even knew that they were spying.) and my husband is losing county contracts that we have held for years.. This subject pisses me off to no end.. Unless you've had your space violated, you can't even begin to understand what this feels like... It isn't cool, okay?

[jberryhill]

86. Yes I have

You mean like the undercover guys who watched my apartment for an entire night and morning because someone had seen the banner I was putting out on Main Street of my town to protest involvement in Nicaragua, then called my landlord to try to get him to ask me to take it down?

Or do you mean the visitors I get from dozens of federal agencies at my scottmclellan.com website?

Or do you mean the inquiry I got from the FBI after registering an internet domain name that was on a terrorist watch list?

Sure, take down my name, put it on a list, call me a "threat"... Why would I care?

It's great that you changed your point of view about the world, really. But the point of nonviolent resistance to illegal exercise of authority is not to be "left alone". Being ignored is the worst thing that can happen.

Demotex here is trying to get rid of the house in question. So, if he's lucky then he'll soon get a purchase offer and the house won't even be his anyway. So some flunky somewhere has a file with pictures of radio equipment that is no longer even at the pictured location.

Maybe there's something wrong with my sense of personal space, but if any government agent wants to know that I think Bush is a danger to what this country stands for, then I'm happy to let them know that - whether it is on the front page of USA Today (check my profile) or in a public meeting.

[converted_democrat]

87. I'm sorry, I guess I should not have assumed that you didn't understand..

I guess it is good that they are not ignoring us, but I just can't understand what good they think they are accomplishing.. I've never been through anything like this before, and I must tell you, to some degree it quite disturbing.. I suppose that is their goal is to "disturb" me..

[jberryhill]

93. You got it

"I suppose that is their goal is to "disturb" me.."

Correct, and the entire strategy of nonviolent resistance lies in how YOU use that effort to disturb you. The first step is INDEED to attract the attention of the persecutor.

If your activities are as uninteresting to the authority in question as if you were off playing golf somewhere, then you might just as well be off playing golf somewhere.

It's not about whether they are "up to no good" - the point is that they ARE up to no good. YOU, on the other hand are up to good.

The mere fact that Quaker peace groups have attracted inquisitive attention, and that this fact has been reported in the media is GOOD.

Don't you get that?

Someone who doesn't know anything more about Quakers than some smiley face on an oatmeal box, and who would never know where to find your meeting or know what you are doing, is led to wonder, "Why is my government spying on a nonviolent religious group, known to be a nonviolent religious group since the founding of the State of Pennsylvania?"

I'm in the Philadelphia area, and it doesn't matter if someone is a die-hard right-wing neo-con Philadelphian... EVERYONE here knows durn well who the Quakers are and what they stand for, and when a right winger in this town hears of the government going after Quakers it DOES send a message that "something has gone awry in my government".

The point is that you don't respond to secretive paranoid authoritarian action by becoming secretive and paranoid. THAT'S WHAT SECRETIVE PARANOID AUTHORITARIAN ACTION IS INTENDED TO DO - TO MAKE YOU LIKE THEM.

Unfortunately in the "they're spying on us" stuff, I see too much of an indication that the entire point has been lost.

Now, having government agents observe protests, attend public meetings, and do other legal things is NOT the same kettle of fish as illegal surveillance - so don't confuse me on that. Because when the government becomes obsessed with surveillance generally, and then crosses that line into illegal surveillance... then, THEN, as we may soon see, the public at large tends to react negatively, and they have provided the rope with which to hang themselves.

You can look at Nixon as becoming increasingly paranoid about the peace movement, and that he went over the edge eventually. Was that solely internal to Nixon, or did the continued activity of the peace movement provide his paranoid tendency with the bait needed for him to run over that cliff.

When you should WORRY is when your voice and your activities are so ineffectual that nobody really gives a damn what you talk about in your meetings. The surveillance efforts indicate that anti-war sentiment has indeed become powerful enough to be perceived as a "threat" to authority.

Again, call me stupid, but I see that as a sign that things are moving in the right direction in terms of normal nonviolent strategy for change.

[converted_democrat]

97. I do understand what you're saying..

The very fact that they are spying on non-violent groups, and that the media is reporting it is a good thing.. I do understand.. I just never expected this to happen to me.. I think that's why I'm having a tough time dealing with it. I never, in a million years would have believed this was going to happen to me.

Up until a little over a year ago, I thought I was a moderate republican.. I voted and volunteered for Kerry, because I could not stand Bush, and even though I wasn't half as aware as I am now, I knew something was up. When the election went to Bush, I knew (I don't believe the election results were correct) something was really wrong, and that was when I first started my move to the left. Since then, I've basically become an activist for the left.. My husband and I own one of the largest corps. in our county, and I more or less quit working for our company, and spend my time here, and on many other projects for the left. I write letters, I call, I fax, and I give financial support to various causes that I believe in.

If someone would have told me 2 years ago that I would be sitting in the position I am now, I would have called them a lune.. I have seen, heard, and read so much... it is to some degree overwhelming.. I grew up in the mid-west in a super conservative area, by "true" conservatives.. (smaller government, government staying out of your business, fiscal responsibility, and personal responsibility) I was raised to believe that my nation was the "good guy" on the block that helped everyone out.. My point is, I guess, I never thought this stuff would, or even could happen here..

I do understand that the things that are happening are actually good.. I just have a hard time with it, because it is happening to me.. I need to get over it though, because this issue isn't just about me, it's about the future of our nation as a whole. If the only way they will get enough rope to hang themselves is by spying on people like me, than let them.. I do understand.. Thank you for helping me gain this perspective..

[tirechewer]

84. That's exactly my point...

They should be reading my blog. Everything I write is for everyone to read. But I don't like being spied on and having them try to scare me out of writing on my blog. It is the sneakiness I object to.

Really, ask yourself, how many CIA operatives are going to be interested in a peace blog for its own sake? I think it was fairly obvious that he was spying and there are all kinds of levels there that I don't like.

First of all, why should I be singled out to be spied on by anyone? I practice a religion which has as its core non violence. I express those views in opposition to government policies which have led us into a terrible war which is based on lies and greed, again both qualities that both I and my religion do not favor. Quakers do want to share information, have attenders at our meetings and open discussion of both our faith and these issues.

Open is the operative word though. Did you happen to hear the man from Lake Worth, Florida whose meeting was attended by spies from the government? The
Quakers there had welcomed the strangers they did not know, had extended fellowship to them and then found that the meeting and its members were being written about in secret FBI reports. They especially objected to the conclusion that they were a "credible threat", Bushspeak for terrorists.

He was furious and said so. My question to you is, how would you like your phone tapped, or your Internet activities tracked, or you posts here shadowed and kept in a dossier about your "treasonous" activities. Because if you think they are not reading what people write here too, think again. This government does not suffer dissent. The president himself has called people who protest the war in Iraq "terrorists" and others in his administration called us "traitors". I object strongly to that, myself. And as an after thought, if you attend a church, how would you like them showing up there, recording you as you worship and tapping the phones of your church.

I don't think all people who work for the government are spies. We have had visits from military personnel, civil service employees in various agencies since we first started writing. There are all stripes of political belief among government employees, just as there are in the general population. But somehow I can't quite make the leap of faith that people who work primarily in domestic and international surveillance are simply reading my blog because they are interested only in my ideas. That runs counter to what I hope is my good sense.

[jberryhill]

92. The Truth Persuades

"But somehow I can't quite make the leap of faith that people who work primarily in domestic and international surveillance are simply reading my blog because they are interested only in my ideas."

That's not the point.

Perhaps you might consider why Saul of Tarsus was ON that road to Damascus. He was the Christians' greatest enemy and persecutor. Something happened.

Not only is he converted by the power of truth, but later he is imprisoned and converts his own jailers.

I'm an attorney, and one thing that has been driven home to me time and time again is that nothing persuades people and changes minds like the truth.

The truth changes minds. You either believe in the power of truth or you don't. But if you do, it doesn't matter WHY someone might be reading it.

I happen to be a believer in the force of true ideas.

edit... on the specific subject of Quaker meetings, see my other post in the thread. In short, the goal of nonviolent resistance is to attract and expose the machinations of paranoid misguided authority. Yes, nonviolent peaceful resistance is a 'credible threat' to that authority. The mere fact that the surveillance has been attracted and publically exposed is GOOD, not bad, because that is central to the entire strategy of nonviolent resistance - to demonstrate that paranoid authority is misguided. It IS effective, and it IS a threat to wrongful use of authority.

[tirechewer]

96. Exactly so....

The truth can persuade if the mind hearing it is ready to receive it. I correspond with a Neocon friend. I guess she's a friend. She likes me, but she hates my beliefs, convictions and religion. She is completely positive that she holds the only truth. So I read her ideas, listen to her reasoning and my mind rejects her truth and holds my own.

There is never a time when I would embrace her ideas on violence or retribution and I despair when I see how indifferent she is toward human suffering. She knows she is right. Her religion and her political party tell her she is, and that no one else of a differing opinion has any truth to tell her. To her and others of her mindset, we are all liars, traitors and enemies of the state. One of the main beliefs that we have as Quakers is that each person has something of God inside of them.

We hold their lives in as much value as we hold our own. But we also recognize that you can only offer what you know and value. If Paul had not been looking for something missing in his life already, he would not have stopped at all. In the end we all have free will and our own responsibility to find our way to God through the way we live our lives and seek our own truth. If I didn't want to offer people what I value and hold dear, I would not have put up a public board, and I would not post in public. That is my choice made of my own free will. But like the meeting in Florida, I do not like to feel that my trust is abused. I do not like to be manipulated, or pushed or prodded or told what I must do.

Another one of our core beliefs is what we call "plain speak". I will speak the truth. I will live the truth. I will not lie by omission, I will not deceive and I will not be quiet if I feel I must speak. If you deal with me I will ask the same from you. I am also human. I don't like to be spied on. I don't see it as a great opportunity to redeem someone else's soul. Redeeming a soul is up to the person who possesses it, and it should not be done at another's expense. That is just a little bit of what I believe. I think I can sum it up pretty well by giving you and old phrase I learned once. "Ask of me, and I am thine. Demand of me and I am mine." Catchy and it sure works for me.

By the way are you a lawyer who defends civil liberties? Because if you are, I might need you some day. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

101. Cool blog

You can mark me down as a visitor.

I love your orchids in the bathroom story!

[dooner]

72. buddhists, greens, nuns, liberals, democrats, moms, dads, n/t

[jberryhill]

94. Yep...

The more entirely harmless people that the government is shown to be spying upon, then the closer this administration gets to undermining its own claim to legitimate authority.

Freeing minds is not about preaching to the choir.

Responding to intimidation by being intimidated is counterproductive.

[necso]

18. "Radio" waves

are broadcast (although with high gain antennas/encryption/codes/direct-sequence spread-spectrum, etc, this can be a good means to communicate) and don't necessarily use "reflectors", intermediate transceivers, "concentration" points, wire-links, etc.

Just some context... there are laws regulating such things.

[Straight Shooter]

20. Maybe they're thinking of buying it as a surveillance post.

Yeah, right. Will your real estate agent release their names?

[RazzleDazzle]

40. That's a good point. First, I'd be climbing all over that RE agent

big time. Whether he or she "deserves it" or not.

Second, I'd make a rule that NO ONE who doesn't provide actual identification can come anywhere near your place. Period.

As for the larger issue, all I can say is you may as well not be alarmed. It is what it is. They're either surveilling you, or they're not. Keep your nose clean, have a good lawyer's business card on ya (or memorize the phone number), and hope for the best.

I think you'll be fine. Got to be quite chilling, but then that is precisely the point.

[DS1]

22. Who was driving? The root of the question being

Was it the real estate agent's Nissan, or was one of the goons driving. Typically Gov't agencies are only allowed to buy domestic.

[samhsarah]

24. What's a Ham Radio?

[Gregorian]

28. You don't know? Deelicious!

I just made this one especially for you, moments ago.

No really, they are shortwave radios that can hear thousands of miles. It's a good way to get uncensored news. Some journalists actually get news from the middle east, and translate it. Beats Fox.

[samhsarah]

29. That is BAD ASS!! I gotta get one of those.

Thanks for the pic. I love it.:rofl:

[hunter]

30. Sometimes I'm in the mood to play with radios...

...and I build my own antennas and put them on my roof.

I once had a "drive by" photo shoot. I saw them out the window and they sped away when they saw me.

Weird Stuff.

It makes me want to sit down with a microphone and broadcast numbers just to see what happens...

42-55-53-48-20-53-55-43-4B-53

[nedbal]

81. I've done "drive by" photo shoots YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY

I needed comparisons to challenge the tax assessment on my property. others do photos for your homeowners insurance company. hell EVERY property in my county has a online photo by the property tax assessment dept now. and a aerial /satellite photo too, it's common these days,.

I hope you wear your tinfoil hat all the time

[hunter]

83. Heh...

Faraday cages are where it's at, man...

[NuttyFluffers]

31. just say, "Hi FBI/CIA, welcome! we got some cold beer in the back!..."

might as well make them feel self-conscious, it's not like there's any secret anymore that they are now used like the new SS. i'm sure you can keep a rambling banter with them and make them feel stupid. say stupid stuff like, "i've laced all the field mice with C4 and remote triggers. but not the pikas and marmots, fiesty buggers they are. mwa ha ha ha! soon the sun dappled glen over yonder shall be mine, all mine! Do you have the latest hannity book? i have a spare if you'd like. no one wants my extras i bought as gifts, and this winter i've had to resort to using them for kindling..." nothing like laughing in the face of fearmongers and showing them they are powerless to scare you.

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. Oh, hell. I've found sliding doors in the backroom, which we never use,

unlocked and nobody can remember unlocking them.

I've even had the police come to the house claiming that they were responding to an alarm and asking to see every one of the rooms in my house. I wouldn't let them go into the main bedroom because it was a mess with laundry and other unmentionables. (I will tell you, though, that the firemen were gorgeous!) But, I digress. The point is that they were here answering a silent alarm, which is something I don't own. I finally called the alarm company to ask them what was going on. They at first suggested that I go for a week or so without having the alarm on while they investigate the matter, and then I got angry and told them that I was battling the city and don't like the idea of not having my alarm available and that maybe I should switch to another alarm company. That's when the girl sheepishly said that someone out in the field typed my alarm # in by mistake while they were testing someone else's alarm. Why that would necessitate waiting a week to put my alarm back on the grid is beyond me.

Anyway, the point is, I really don't have anything to hide. That's the advantage of living in a Republican community. Your neighbors tend to be greedier, meaner and more malicious than you, so you kinda feel like Gandhi.

[RazzleDazzle]

42. I'd never thought of that

GOOD point:

That's the advantage of living in a Republican community. Your neighbors tend to be greedier, meaner and more malicious than you,

[0007]

54. Was the mystery of the sliding doors in the backroom ever solved?

[The Backlash Cometh]

55. Nope.

I've found other access entries "breached" over time, but since nothing of value or sentiment was ever taken, I didn't get all angry about it.

But, I guess you can say that it did have a little effect, because it was a factor in deciding to stop the community activism. Partly because I didn't want my kids to get hurt once they were entering the high profile high school years, and because I could continue to dig up all kinds of wrong doing in city hall, but with no one at the State or Federal level willing to help correct it, there was really no where to go.

It did occur to me that it's the State level agency's job to protect the local government from law suit, so, where do you go? And there are federal agencies that know how corrupt certain people are at the state and local level, but they do absolutely nothing about it. And it's too expensive to look for help from the private sector, and too costly if you pick the wrong lawyer to help you.

So you just lose all respect for your government, and when some bad luck happens to bad people, you just thank God for intervening.

[0007]

70. I've had a few unusual incidents here in Midland.

My phone.....and then my apartment while I was in Houston last year, I believe was breached.

[soup]

35. I wonder

if it could have anything to do with your post on arendt's "Oh, yeah, I'm really going to sleep well tonight after reading this." thread a couple of days ago:

"The Deal" is going down - a look into the near future
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2391803#top


DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-25-06 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. I have not fired a weapon since Viet Nam. There it was only for M-16 qual.


Edited on Wed Jan-25-06 09:06 PM by DemoTex

I have never owned a gun. However, tomorrow I am going to the gun store (where the hell is it?). I'm buying an expensive 9mm and a pump-action 12 gauge shotgun, while my money is still good for something. In fact, I think I'll put them on my AMEX platinum card. As fast as things are spinning toward total de-solution of the state, I'll never have to pay it off! What say you, Vern?

BTW: When the shit hits the fan, and Bu$h takes over (citing certain laws, trampling most others; and I do think it will be very soon), I'll be on the HAM bands at 1000 watts, broadcasting. Let's say 20 meters as a base. Let's say 14.14mHz, 14.28mHz as universal political emergency freqs.

--

:shrug: I don't know. Nothing makes much sense to me anymore.

Did they show any particular interest in any part of the interior of the house that seemed out of the ordinary for 'normal' house shoppers?

[RazzleDazzle]

43. Bingo

BIG Bingo.

[CoffeeCat]

51. Major, mongo BINGO. Holy Crikey...

...I've got chills.

Obviously, this is why you are being watched.

[converted_democrat]

73. Jaysus...That is chilling.....n/t

[SoCalDem]

38. I didn;t know you were selling that dream house in the woods

How sad.. I saw the pics of your new "town" home, but i thought you were keeping both.. Guess the country life is not what it;s cracked up to be eh?

[fishnfla]

39. is half million the asking price?

or are you taking offers?

[gordianot]

44. They know what all of us have and have been tracking for years.

My understanding none of this is a big secret, I know a person who has been doing this for several years. The Department of Agriculture analyzes satellite photographs of everyones property often right up to the city limits. They not only analyze what you grow in your field but count the out buildings along with any vehicles, electrical lines and antennas. They also maintain a data plot with a data base marking changes on a two or three year basis.

I can see why the Department of Agriculture may want to know this information, when you have a Government who is in the business of eliminating legal political opposition this sort of information is questionable. I wouldn't be surprised if this information was not shared by agencies.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Very strange

Why your radio?

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Did they have warrants to take photos of your place?

[txindy]

50. They asked for the owner's permission and were given it.

They don't need a warrant with permission granted like that.

[Warren Stupidity]

56. They do if they did not identify themselves as law enforcement officers.

Unless I am mistaken (and that has happened) you cannot grant legal permission for a search to an undercover agent who has not identified his or her actual formal authority while requesting permission to search.

[pitohui]

63. i believe you are mistaken

it seems a common misconception that law enforcement must identify themselves while doing investigations, of course they do not, or undercover work would be illegal and impossible

it is not illegal for law enforcement to lie

it is not esp. illegal for you to lie but it IS illegal for you to lie to FBI officers who have identified themselvs as such so you may well be better off if they pretend to be other

[Warren Stupidity]

66. This is not a question of leo lying.

It is a question of have you given up your 4th amendment rights to a LEO who has not identified himself as such but has 'asked to look around'. I think you haven't.

[pitohui]

67. look, the dude should have said no if he didn't want them to take photos

he has already said that he had a real estate agent showing the property, no doubt to plenty of other people, and all were allowed to take pix

clearly he didn't feel allowing photographs had violated his rights or he could have opened his mouth and said "no" when asked

[Warren Stupidity]

68. I ain't arguing that.

I'm actually curious about the legal issue: have you given up your 4th amendment rights to an undercover agent claiming to be looking for his lost dog? I think not, but I could be wrong.

[jberryhill]

76. The operative question

in the 4th amendment context is whether a LEO invaded your "reasonable expectation of privacy".

A LEO can legally do what any member of the public can legally do. That's why I'm being beaten up elsewhere in this thread for asking whether Quaker meetings are open to the public.

If I can stand on a street, take pictures of people at a demonstration, and go home and put those pictures in a file, so can a LEO.

If I can go to a meeting and listen to what people have to say, then so can a LEO.

I dunno, maybe there is a belief that agents of the government have to walk around blindfolded unless they have a warrant to look at something, but that wasn't the impression I had.

Edit... is that a picture of the house in question in the original post?

[pitohui]

99. ok i get it (think i know what you are saying)

i think YOU are wrong but i am not a lawyer

i live in louisiana and some of it is enforced differently in different federal court districts

talk to your own lawyer and see what he says, advice on the internet is local (if based on real experience) or worthless (because it's often based on theory put forward by bullshitters)

my experience based on being investigated in the late 80s/early 90s was that 4th amendment was something that went away in like 1978 and that i really had no rights if i opened my home to a real estate agent or to another member of the public

your mileage may vary

i would never gamble my freedom on the fourth amendment, i've had to assume it don't exist for going close to 2 decades now

[nedbal]

47. only a 20M on the antenna array. no 2M No 80M , is it a good site ?

for a commercial lease antenna farm or a MW link to another mountain top array. any broadcast site value? how high is your tower,

"I confronted the guy, and he weaseled .. big time. "

define weasled ......

[nedbal]

48. OK now I get the picture!!!! nice crop

[Tsiyu]

53. Pretty clear they tracked you for that one post

How hilarious. These peckers are running after every Tom, Dick and Harry just trying to survive in the mess ** has made; meanwhile very real crimes are going uninvestigated - just ask my friend who was scammed over the Internet.

There are no agents left to care for the People. They are all Pissypants' handmaidens. It is so pathetic.

I believe it is wise for anyone who feels they have had their privacy violated to post here on DU. It's no conspiracy theory anymore....** has admitted to spying on us. Keeping in touch keeps us all a bit safer, and lets them know that we are keeping track of them as well.

If any of the DUers "disappear" at least we'll know who our future cellmates will be!

Stay safe and change real estate agents pronto....

[Catrina]

57. How were your friends scammed on the internet?

I'm finding this all very sad and disturbing ~ I thought that in this country we were safe in our own homes. Nearly everyone I know now feels threatened, and is acting as though they lived in the Soviet Union, assuming they are being listened to on the phone etc.

Even Bush supporters are beginning to wonder what it was they were supporting. I wonder though, can Bush be totally blamed for all this? He couldn't have done it without others being involved and why didn't the FBI and CIA refuse?

When this story first came out, about spying on the American people, I read that some of those who worked for the NSA DID refuse to do it. But since then, I haven't seen any more about it. Those are the heroes, imo.

What also disturbs me is how easily our own fellow citizens were convinced to go along with this program. How on earth could they think that spying on your own citizens is in any way what this country is about? Maybe the whole idea of America was just a myth after all. If so, I'd rather know about it.

[seabeyond]

61. not to be paranoid, but.....

last week i purposely put out some posts and my interent connection has not been the same. we are totally wired in this house. my hubby high end tech dude and has us wired. it isnt effecting anyone elses computer. but strange things, things that havent happened with my connection in the past has been happening last week. a lot since yesterday afternoon. gonna have hubby do some checking. i dont know anything

yes, i think we are

[pitohui]

64. the whole site has had intermittent slowdowns

especially yesterday

chill, you're not special

and we've always been spied on, does no one remember the 60s

[seabeyond]

65. ah, well let me address

and make very clear to all, though i absolutely am special....in my own right, and to those that love me, i dont in anyway live in illusion that out of all the world that speaks up they give a shit about a little ole lady in amarillo texas

but

i think they may have a computer system in place (and i dont know shit about computer) that certain words may hook to it? (again i dont know shit) and may cause a disruption.

but then, i dont know shit, lol

just saying

[nedbal]

89. OK now I get the picture!!!! nice crop

[flyarm]

91. get there names and addresses and phone numbers from

realtor..pronto..every realtor has to keep names numbers etc..

and take some digitals yourself..give them to realtor and tell her she can give those out and no one ..no one is to take pics of your home...for security reasons!

your family must be protected and tell her there are too many stories of women getting raped when a house is on the market ..and you forbid pictures of any kind!
keep your security system on at all times!

nd when someone goes through your home say 2 realtors if your house is big and make sure they stay with the people going through!

be it the selling agent and the booking agent...

too many women do get raped when houses are on the market..especially in remote areas...or houses get robbed..
or the cia /fbi guys come by...

get the info from the agent immediately..and then check them out!

fly

[gardenista]

95. Did you ask if you could take a picture of them?

[DemoTex]

98. Actually, I did!

I have a D-50 Nikon digital on a tripod in the D/R. I got over 75 shots of them, their real-estate agent, and the big Nissan SUV they came up in. Thank goodness for fast motor drive!

More on the goons coming in a new thread.

MAC

[gardenista]

100. Great work!

[dweller]

102. i just got here from thread 2

and have 2 questions: is the ham radio part of the house deal? if not, why would they want to photo it? you were right to confront them if not.
and, why are you selling, it seems just a year or so ago you were moving there.

okay, that's 3 questions.

happy trails to wherever you are headed.
dp

[henslee]

103. Japanese descended farmers in San Diego used to use shortwave

radios to communicate. When Pearl Harbor was bombed, these farmers were attacked by locals and you know the rest. Just a random fact I thought Was interesting.

[henslee]

104. Don't home-lookers tell you their names? Doesn't your R;E. agent have

their names?

[Breeze54]

105. It's probably just bush looking for a new vacation hide-out! lmao

I wouldn't worry about it!
Why didn't you just ask the RE agent wtf was up?
:shrug: