Kerry Will DESTROY Dean In A Debate One-On-One

[THUNDER HANDS]

I can't understand why Dean wants to sit back and wait for Kerry to come to him in the later primary states.

Who does Dean think he is? Roy Schneider in Jaws when he fires the gun at the oxygen tank in the shark's mouth?

Kerry is as skilled a debater as Edwards is, and Edwards is damn good.

Both have had better performances in most of these debates the past few months.

Dean doesn't strike me as a guy who saves his best performances for debates. Kerry can bring it, and has 20 years of experience to back it up.

Is Dean that confident in himself that he thinks he can take on the intelligence and experience and oratory skills of John Kerry?

Please tell me its so, because it's my dream come true. If anything will convice Dean supporters that Kerry is the better man will be for Kerry to thoroughly spank Dean in a one-on-one debate.

So please Howard Dean, bring it on.

[hippiechick]

1. Dean knows everything Kerry is going to throw at him

... because Kerry stole pretty much his entire platform from the last 9 months worth of Dean's speeches. :eyes:

Dean may look 'angry' and 'unpolished' but IMO Kerry looks snotty and condescending.

:hippie:

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. but Dean is not a skilled debater

it has nothing to do with anger. He's not angry when he's debating. He's just not good at it.

Kerry is.

[janx]

8. What we've seen so far have not been debates.

I don't know exactly what to call them, but nobody has debated anything yet.

[blm]

7. HAHAHA...you have to be kidding. Dean stole most of his stuff from Kerry

Dean shifted left last year to attract the antiwar crowd. His positions were always procorporatist. Kerry was ALWAYS on the left and had no need to shift his longheld positions.

He never even got one endorsement from the Sierra Club ib any of his races and now you want to believe Kerry who knows environmental science inside and out for over 30 years stole his position from DEAN???? Hahahahah....

Go read Kerry's earlier foreign policy speeches and environmental speeches and then read Dean's which came later. Then tell us who stole from who.

btw...the ONLY reason Dean supporters think Kerry is stealing from Dean is because MOST of you only really listened to Dean. You weren't listening to other candidates and seem very unfamiliar with their longheld positions..

[CabalBuster]

21. Kerry is long winded, dry and boring...he'll put Howard to sleep

with his long answers and non-stop Washingtonian bullshit. Face it, the man is boring an not very quick witted.

[CWebster]

41. "snotty and condescending"

Doesn't get more spot on than that.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. No, Kerry will destroy Bush in a debate one-on-one

[Closer]

27. and after

[Feanorcurufinwe]

50. Looks like he's saying GOTCHA to Bush

[ibegurpard]

4. Kerry could obliterate Dean in a debate and that would change

nothing about my opinion of Kerry. You are seriously, seriously misguided if you think my motives are based upon who looks the best on tv or comes across as "most electable."

[Skip Intro]

5. Watching Kerry speak cured my insomnia

Here's to finding out who'd score in a one on one.

:toast:

[nightperson]

6. Dean to Scheider:

"Ummmm, we're gonna need a bigger boat. Better go to 'the Bat'!"

[SixShooter]

12. Kerry would beat Dean

but he would destroy Bush!

Sen. Biden said Kerry was one of, if not THE, best debators he'd ever seen...he is excellent from what I've seen

Just think what will happen if he faces the Chimp, who has to have every word told to him by somebody so he doesnt make an idiot of himself...

Kerry, Edwards, or Dean would chew up Dubya and spit him out...personally i cant wait for that moment!!

[nightperson]

19. I've always thought

that Kerry would effortlessly come off like George's wiser older brother trying to explain "the facts of life". What a mismatch it would be.

[KFC]

9. Have you seen the movie "Scanners"?

Then you will know the full passion of Dean's head exploding.

[isbister]

10. Why would Kerry go for a one-on-one debate?

Dean had his chance when he was ahead in the polls and refused. Can't change your mind now Dr. Dean.

[janx]

16. It wouldn't be fair to have a debate between just two candidates

out of seven or nine. To do so would be arrogant and thoughtless. When it comes down to two candidates it might be fine to have one--provided it's a real debate as opposed to some pundit "forum."

[isbister]

24. Re:

I don't think the plan will work. Don't think Kerry would do it and if he did he won't exclude Kucinich or Sharpton... who will be around.

[ibegurpard]

17. Nowhere has Dean suggested a one-on-one debate with Kerry

Asking for a debate with the front-runner of a crowded primary with only 2 states out of the way would be the height of arrogance, something your candidate can relate to very well since he pulled that one several months ago.

[isbister]

31. If Dean's dream came true

and Clark and Edwards dropped out... I don't think the plan will work. Don't think Kerry would bite on the debate and if he did, he won't exclude Kucinich or Sharpton... who will be around until the end.

The height of arrogance is Dean's assumption that he can skip over so many states and assume he will be a contender worthy of Kerry's time. Frankly, I think his wife prescribed too many Zoloft for him. If Dean's dream does somehow come true and he's standing alone with Kerry after losing soooo many states... why would Kerry debate Dean...it'd be like debating... LaRouche...hey, maybe Dean can debate LaRouche.

[janx]

37. What states is he skipping over? He was campaigning

in Arizona today.

[KingofSwords]

11. Dean has said things in the debates

That can be so easily picked apart that he's gotten away with because Kerry has been too distracted by the other candidates. But if Kerry's full attention is on Dean he'll be able to pick apart his statements.

[Hoppin_Mad]

13. Well - Kerry DOES have the "botox advantage" going for him ! ;-) -nt-

[Carl Spackler]

14. My dad can beat up your dad

Where exactly is this getting us?

[janx]

18. LOL!

You're so right.

[depakid]

15. Be careful what you wish for-

Dean's policy positions are much stronger, more polished and better enunciated than anything Kerry has set forth, and Kerry's record in the Senate in less than stellar- particularly with respect to policy achievements that he's intitated or can take credit for championing.

Kerry is politically very fortunate to have been in a position to avoid a rational one on one debate with Dr. Dean, and as a Kerry supporter, you should appreciate that fact rather than getting cavalier and calling for a situation where your candidate would be at a distinct disadvantage.

[kaitykaity]

20. Oh, blah blah blah.

Howard Dean is too 'liberal'.
Howard Dean is too 'conservative'.
Howard Dean is George McGovern.
Howard Dean is Newt Gingrich.
Howard Dean is too 'angry'.
Howard Dean only governed 500,000 people.

Give me a freaking break already.

Kerry might be a great debater. But he has no guts. No courage. (Would love to include other images, but don't want to be accused of being sexist.)

"Why did you vote for Bush's war, Senator?"
"Uh, uh, uh."

:eyes:

[KFC]

22. It takes no guts or courage to fight in Vietnam

Easy times compared to Aspen.

[kaitykaity]

23. Yeah, 30 years ago, I'll give him that.

Politically? No way. He ran and hid in a pink tutu.

Howard Dean, OTOH, stood up to Bush when it was unpopular. Now that's political courage.

[KingofSwords]

30. I beg to differ...

Right after 9-11 when questioning govt power was unpopular Dean made a comment that Americans needed to be prepared to sacrifice some freedoms to be safe. Dean only stood up to Bush when he realized he'd rally grassroots supports by doing so. Kerry has stood up to Bush since the beginning..

[kaitykaity]

54. If that's how you see things, then no amount of logic

or history will change your mind. It's like pounding my head against a brick wall. All I'm getting is a bloody forehead.

(See post below for legislative rollovers by Kerry et. al. for Bush while Bush had astronomical poll numbers. That ain't 'standing up to Bush'. Period.)

[KingofSwords]

59. well it shows me you don't understand

How legislative process works. Kerry never stated support for every segment of those bills. He certainly did speak out against the parts he opposed.

[kaitykaity]

67. Which brings me to the crux of the problem.

I most certainly do understand the legislative process.

But we are not electing a legislator. All of the skills you tout that made Kerry a great legislator will make him a lousy president. We need somebody who can lead. Like Howard Dean.

Kerry's a great beta (bringing up dirges of 2000), but he sure ain't no alpha.

[KFC]

32. It has sure worked like a charm so far

The "Little Ball of Hate" seems to have spent a lot of money and effort on devastating results.

Well, at any rate, Dean is done. I'm going to focus on our nominee.

[kaitykaity]

55. Go for it, and best of luck.

I don't think Dean is done, not by a long shot. But only time will tell.

ABB!! :D

[KingofSwords]

28. Kerry could easily respond to that

"Why did you vote for Bush's war, Senator?"

Because like the majority of Americans I was misled by the Bush administration's assessment of intelligence on Iraqi weapons programs.


Dean is the one who took vague and self-interested views on Iraq. He actually said he believed Saddam had WMDs too, and yet he didn't support the war. Dean was never in a position where he had to make such a difficult decision unlike Kerry. I think the decision showed courage, he went against his constituency.

[kaitykaity]

29. Oh yeah, blaming bad intelligence is real courageous.

rotflmao.

[KingofSwords]

34. admitting you were wrong is courageous and less patronizing than Dean

Playing "I told you so."

[kaitykaity]

40. There's a crowd to protect Kerry now, remember?

Democratic voters flocked to Dean because Dean stood up and put a big fat finger in Bush's eye while Kerry was hiding in his tutu. It's real easy to go along with the crowd. Not so easy to stand out there by yourself. Kerry sure didn't have the guts to do it.

[KingofSwords]

49. when did Kerry hide exactly?

It didn't take courage for Dean to criticize Bush. What's courageous about it? Alot of people criticize Bush, Kerry did it in the New York Times.

[kaitykaity]

52. Where were you when the Congressional Democrats rolled

over and played dead on the USA Patriot Act? The massive, unjust tax cuts? The No Child Left Behind baloney? AND the IWR?

I rest my case.

[KingofSwords]

57. Kerry voted against the tax cut...

The USA Patriot Act had elements in it that were good and bad. So I'm assuming Kerry understood that the bad parts of the act would be overturned in the courts. Dean is the one who doesn't understand Senate legislation or have faith in the courts. Kerry did indeed mention that the Patriot Act had unconstitutional elements, however Republicans often put bad elements in necessary legislation to force Democrats to support it.

[kaitykaity]

64. More of the same excuses for why Kerry stood with Bush

on so many bad things. If Kerry had had the courage of his convictions, his votes would have reflected it.

He didn't.

(You are correct about the tax cuts, however. My bad.)

[mzmolly]

65. Here is a good question for Kerry on the same lines Kaity

"Did you support the war in Iraq Mr. Kerry?"

JK's response: Uhm, well erm I uhmmmm, can I see the latest polls?

[kaitykaity]

69. LOL.

Polls indeed. :thumbsup: Thanks.

[Shanty Oilish]

25. If JK wins every race this Tuesday,

---he still has only around 10% of the delegates he needs for nomination.
Far as I'm concerned Dean is still a player, but I can't see a pro like Kerry giving him a lift by agreeing to debate 1/1.
It's kind of like making a racehorse slow down so he can get into a neck-and-neck race with another horse.

[Malikshah]

26. The question remains...

Who will be...







The Master Debater??:evilgrin:


So I have a 7th grade sense of humor at 37...sue me.

Truly--this is one of those flameworthy threads...love the pugnacious quality to its title.

[David Zephyr]

33. Why Is This Thread With All Caps in the Title Not Locked? Double Standard?

And isn't using the words that Kerry will "destroy" Dean as inflammatory as others that have been locked?

Is this a double standard here, since this clearly violates the rules, or is this just an oversight by the mods?

Is the sauce just for the goose?

[Malikshah]

35. Couldn not agree more

I went the humor route in my first post, but...

It's getting pretty ripe in here.

[kaitykaity]

36. Did you hit alert and tell the mods?

If not, please do so. (There is no double standard here.)

[David Zephyr]

39. Of Course I Hit the Alert.

But I didn't want to just do it behind Magic Rat's back. I wanted him to know it was me. That's just the kind of person I am. Upfront.

[KFC]

MOMMY!

She hit me first!

[Malikshah]

45. Interesting response.

I've been seeing a lot of the "whine" responses of late.

It had been a while, but they're back in full force. Takes me back to the end of 2000. Good times. good times...

[David Zephyr]

46. The Point is the Rules.

I'll let your comment stand on its own.

[Carl Spackler]

60. Hey! No fighting in the war room.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:l3CzW1UGDl0J:home.earthlink.net/~shillingr/hwd-sellers-strangelove.jpg

[Carl Spackler]

61. Sorry 'bout that!

[kaitykaity]

44. As a former mod, I get real irritated when somebody

brings out the old 'double standard' card.

Didn't mean to ruffle feathers. :shrug:

[CWebster]

38. Some of the crap Kerry incessantly carped on about

when attacking Dean might as well have been coming from a Repuke. Kerry sided with Lieberman about Dean's "even-handed" approach to Israel. He made issue when Dean stated that capturing Saddam did not make us safer. Kerry even whined that Saddam tried to kill smirk's daddy. His constant references to Viet Nam in some pissing contest with the smirking chimp are gross--considering he came back from Nam protesting it as an unjust war, than criticized Senator Bob Kerrey for attacking Clinton for his lack of service, and then voted for Iraq.

With the help of his media cheerleaders he might come off smelling like a rose, but scratch under the suface and it reeks like the same old pretentious pompous phony.

[KingofSwords]

43. and Dean isn't pompous?

He acts like he thinks he's smarter than everyone who believed the intelligence about Iraq's WMDs. No the fact is Dean didn't have any choice to make on Iraq. The Governor Vermont had no bearing on the issue. Kerry on the other had a tough decision to make.

[CWebster]

72. That must make me smarter too

As well as millions upon millions around the world that saw it for the farce it was.

[janx]

47. The pomposity is to such an extent that the guy comes

off as a charicature! The affected accent, the clothes, the hair...

[KingofSwords]

51. that's only according to media talking heads...

Kerry doesn't seem pompous, he seems experienced.

[janx]

56. I didn't get that from media talking heads. It was my observation!

Sorry. He just strikes me that way.

[KingofSwords]

58. you shouldn't stereotype a candidate by

How they look. Anyway the only image we get of Kerry is through the media's eye, unless you've seen him in person.

[janx]

62. Sorry.

I'm one of those people who just doesn't go for that kind of thing.

[NewHampster]

42. Dean believes himself and it shows

It helps if a debater is on a side he can believe in. Eventually the viewing public will see that whether you agree with Dean or not he always says what he means.

John Kerry on the other hand can only keep up this on message crap so long. He will flip flop like a flounder and Governor Dean will call him on it.

[nightperson]

53. I don't think

Kerry accepts calls from the Millennium Falcon.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

48. Who is the biggest policy wonk? Who cares?

Look at the teams - look at the kind of organization Kerry has (long time Washington aristocrats and Skull & Bones) vs. Dean's organization (pissed off yuppies, college women, and the middle rank of the Democratic party).

[mzmolly]

63. "My daddy can beat up your daddy" sound familiar?

*

Oops, never mind, just saw post 14, I think his dad can beat up all our dads ... so nah nah nah nah nah! :P

[Carl Spackler]

68. Why I'm going to warn the mods

that you stole my post!

JUST KIDDING!! (oops - sorry about the all caps)

[quaker bill]

66. Just like the masterful way he has handled GWB

He sure sorted Bush out on that rush to war thing. Had old W just shaking in his boots. Kerry is such a skillful leader.

I am sure he has Dean just trembling at the thought.

[Cheswick2.0]

70. LOL

no because Kerry will have to wait and see what Dean says before he knows what his position is. It will only work if Dean answer every question first.
I do admit that Kerry has a great talent for baffling people with bullshit while basically saying nothing at all. He not only speaks in platitudes but his platitudes are senseless.

[Duder]

71. Dean would destroy...

Glass Jaw Kerry, imo. John's too slow and nuanced, whereas Dean's quick and nimble. Teressa would probably have to throw in the towel to save her hubby.

[Moderator]

73. Locking

1. If you start a thread in this forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. The moderators have the sole authority to decide whether a thread topic is inflammatory.



DU Moderator