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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:37 PM
Original message
Fitz's letter to Libby lawyer contains several interesting nuggets
as posted here: http://rawstory.com/other/pdfs/RawStoryFitzLetter.pdf

First thing that jumps out on Page 3


(9): This request in effect seeks discovery concerning any other subjects of the ongoing investigation. We have not produced, and do not intend to produce, all documents regarding contacts between government officials other than Mr. Libby and reporters prior to July 14, 2003, but have produced (or will produce before February 3) all documents reflecting contact between Mr. Libby and reporters responsive to this request. Lest there be any doubt, we do have some documents responsive to your request which we are electing not to produce because we do not agree that we are obligated to provide them.


And then, even more interesting on Page 5


(19)-(22): We will be providing to you prior to February 3 copies of subpoenas and pertinent correspondence relating to reporters referenced in the Indictment and/or whom we expect to call at tria1.2 We are specifically withholding subpoenas (and correspondence) which were addressed to reporters whose testimony was directed towards government officials other than Mr. Libby.



(B) and (C): We do not agree that if there were any documents indicating that Ms. Wilson's employment was not classified during the relevant times that any such documents would constitute Brady material in a case where Mr. Libby is not charged with a violation of statutes prohibiting the disclosure of classified information.3

3 I note that Ms. Wilson's employment status was classified but has since been declassified so that we may now confirm such status. In any event, we are not aware of any documents in our possession stating that Ms. Wilson's affiliation with the CIA was not classified at the relevant times.


Then the real beauty on Page 6


At this time we do not intend to offer any evidence of"other crimes" pursuant to Rule 404(b).
As we discussed during our telephone conversation, Mr. Libby testified in the grand jury that he had contact with reporters in which he disclosed the content of the National Intelligence Estimate ("NIB") to such reporters in the course of his interaction with reporters in June and July 2003 (and caused at least one other government official to discuss the NIE with the media in July 2003). We also note that it is our understanding that Mr. Libby testified that he was authorized to disclose information about the NIE to the press by his superiors. We expect that such conduct will be the subject of proof at trial in that we intend to introduce Libby's grand jury transcript in evidence and Mr. Libby has testified that the purpose of his July 8 meeting with Ms. Miller was to transmit infonnation concerning the NIE. OUf anticipated basis for offering such evidence is that such facts are inextricably intertwined with the narrative of the events of spring 2003, as Libby's testimony itself makes plain. At this timeJ we do not intend to offer the evidence pursuant to Rule 404(b).


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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yippee...this is great! And don't NSA hearings start soon?
We may be upset by the Alito debacle but, for every darkness, there is a corresponding light. Wheeeee!
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. I like the last paragraph on page 6
Scooter was running around sharing classifed information with the authorization of his superiors. I like the sound of that.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Can you say Cheney?
I knew that you could... K&R

:hi:

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Frustratedlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. But, did you notice the "s" at the end?
"press by his superiors..."

as in more than one? :9 Who has the popcorn?
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Right.
:popcorn:
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. And he also worked with little boots and KKKarl.
So this may be very very bad for the chimpster.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Is KKKarl his superior?
I don't know if it was set up that way, but I wouldn't doubt it and I'd love for that to be the case.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I could be wrong
but as I read it earlier, he worked under Cheney and 'with the president.'
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I was just wondering aloud
if the VP's Chief of Staff would usually answer to the POTUS' Deputy Chief of Staff.

My gut tells me that nothing went on in the WH that Rove, Darth and CCB didn't know about or direct. Soon I hope it will all come out and we can see how this cluster fuck worked.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
58. He was NOT at this point in time
Edited on Fri Feb-03-06 03:18 PM by FreedomAngel82
At this point in time when the leak happened Rove was only a political advisor to Bush. November 3rd, 2004 Bush promoted Rove to Deputy Chief of Staff.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Libby had many bosses - Can you say WHIG?
This article from RawStory.com lists some of those in the WHIG group.

Fitzgerald’s examination centers on a group of players charged with not only selling the war, but according to sources familiar with the case, to discredit anyone who openly "disagreed with the official Iraq war" story.

The group’s members included Deputy White House chief of staff Karl Rove, Bush advisor Karen Hughes, Senior Advisor to the Vice President Mary Matalin, Deputy Director of Communications James Wilkinson, Assistant to the President and Legislative Liaison Nicholas Calio, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley and I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby - Chief of Staff to the Vice President and co-author of the Administration's pre-emptive strike policy.

Rice was later appointed Secretary of State; her deputy Hadley was made National Security Advisor. Wilkinson departed to become a spokesman for the military's central command, and later for the Republican National Convention. Hughes was recently appointed Undersecretary of State.

source: Vice President's role in outing of CIA agent under examination, sources close to prosecutor say
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. True enough
But I don't know in Fitzgerald's legal sense who would be considered a superior to the VP's Chief of Staff other than the VP and the POTUS. I just went for the direct line, not the dirty grey underbelly. No doubt he served many masters, including the devil himself.

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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. With these guys
it is always the stuff going on behind the scenes that we need to be paying attention to, know what I mean? They've got their secret shadow government, they were writing the stories for the press here and abroad, on and on. I think he was following orders from the DoD too. He once worked there and they had to coordinate the WHIG campaign with the Pentagon. Or am I going too :tinfoilhat:?

But back to the point you made, according to Source Watch Scooter is described as "Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff to Vice President Dick Cheney." So the direct line works too.

Don't forget too that Libby was a founder of PNAC. Those aspen roots are connected.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
59. And don't forget Hadly turned too didn't he?
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
61. Can you say, "Throw him under the bus"?
I'm betting Scooter takes the fall... forced to throw himself on his saber.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Think Fitz will buy the idea the Bush and Cheney can do
Anything they damn well please? So it they authorized Libby to do it, then it's legal?
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Yes, so the decision came from the top
to share government secrets with the media. Of course, BushCo will claim this is legal but I get the feeling Fitzgerald thinks otherwise.

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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
60. So what would happen if
Fitzgerald does say they go to jail can they and what would happen if they didn't?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Can you say "Destruction of evidence in Cheney's Office?"
2nd to last paragraph on pg 6 is of particular interest to me...it states flat out that they are aware of destruction of emails in the VP office...that is huge....

Destruction of evidence is a big offense in a federal investigation.... :eyes:
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. That part was being discussed in another thread
here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x296760 the primary source used there was Josh Marshall's TPM. So, I was trying avoid focusing on the same specific issue being discussed in another thread.

Yes, I agree, it is a big deal.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Thx...goes to show that there are many issues/crimes here....
:hi:
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. and it tells you I've spent way too much time here today
:hi: I know I should get back to work.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Exactly - 3 totally seperate issues in the letter -
Edited on Thu Feb-02-06 12:02 PM by BR_Parkway

  1. Destruction of evidence (similar to missing 18 1/2 minutes of Watergate tapes) - Obstruction
  2. Plame's status confirmed, disclosure under orders of superiors - Intelligence law violations
  3. Documents leading back to other leakers - more perjury, obstruction, etc..
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
57. Oh wow
So they were involved. And wouldn't that include Bush too or just Cheney?
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poverlay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. OMG - did that say what I think that said! Beautiful:) n/t
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. That's the way I'm reading it - any DU lawyers want to jump in here?
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. It is begining to look a lot like Fitzmas
Every time a republican gets indicted a bell rings.

http://pensacolawinterfest.org/resources/files/Wonderful+Life_09web.jpg

We also note that it is our understanding that Mr. Libby testified that he was authorized to disclose information about the NIE to the press by his superiors.
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datadiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. Oh please,
Make it So!

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. Fitz is nowhere near done
I have been waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Buh-bye, KKKarl. Say hello to Scooter for me in the Big House.
Hellllllooooooo, Mr. Cheney! Yes, you do need a lawyer.


And then wait for the blood to run into the gutters as the feeding frenzy takes place.
This will get verrrryyyy interesting.

Can you say, destroying evidence? I knew you could.

How about, obstruction of justice? See, that was easy!

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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Are you excited, or what?
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. This will be the one that kills their dreams of fascism
I am keeping some Dom Perignon nice and cold. When these bastards go down, I will stay drunk for three days.

The wheels of Justice grind slowly, but exceedingly fine.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Well, not alnays "exceeding fine."
I keep hitting the walls between a stunned "why the hell is nothing happening?" and "hot dog, we got 'em, now!":bounce: :bounce: :wtf: :nuke: :hi:
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I predict a run on fine champagne
>I am keeping some Dom Perignon nice and cold.<

I've had a bottle of Moet & Chandon burning a hole through the bottom of our refrigerator since October 28th, with a bottle of Perrier Jouet as a backup. In the meantime, let's cross our fingers, but I'm thinking this latest makes Watergate look like a garden party in comparison. If this truly comes to pass, I'll be in the market for some Dom myself...

Julie
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Don't forget to buy French
when you can, just to piss off the Loofah Master/Falafel King.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Absolutely
:toast:

Here's to the French, and their Méthod Champenois!

Julie
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foreverdem Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
42. You bet it will look like a garden party
When Fitz lays all the cards down, I'll bet people and scenarios we couldn't even have imagined will be involved in this. It will be completely mind boggling.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. mind is already boggled enough - but I can not wait for the party
will we be able to wear costumes?
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
62. I'd like to go as Coni!
Edited on Fri Feb-03-06 04:12 PM by Juniperx
White suit, several shoe shopping bags, and wearing just a tiny trace of Katrina mud on the toe of an impeccable white pump.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. Houston.....
I think we have a problem.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
31. Is it possible that Fitz is as good as Cheney is evil?
Here's the deal: Cheney isn't bright enough to create a whole cohesive universe by himself, and that would be the only thing that could withstand the scrutiny of time. Time has the upper hand here, and Fitzgerald, because of his integrity, is able to be its very effective agent.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Looks like we're gonna need these:


:hi:

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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Fitz *is* as good as Cheney is evil
and, fortunately for us, Fitz is one smart bulldog. :popcorn:
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. Could Be
Don't forget his best friend is James Comey, the man who appointed him to the job and, tried to stop the NSA spying without FISA approval.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
34. Fucking Stellar Research on this BR_Parkway - these points are the
meat and potatoes here.

I have been so busy that I did not have time to go over this with a fine tooth comb. Your points in legalize is right on in my opinion.

Kicking & Nominating.

I should go and read it to see if there is anything you missed, however I don't think I will find anything new.

Awesome work - kudos!!!!
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Thanks
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. your thread is gonna get pounded now, I just emailed several Plamebuffs
here at DU and I see one of them has already checked in. Over the next day or so the discussions may get interesting here, or not.

Thanks again
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I'd love to see it plastered on Home page so the CNN blog girls
will report it - I really want to see Wolfie's head spin like that girl in the Exorcist!
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. you just got 2 more votes - lets wait and see I know 2 people that I
emailed have noticed it now. BTW I emailed somewhere around 10-20 people.;)
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. Just walked in the door and switched on the 'puter, stb...
Thanks for the heads up!! (and for keeping us all apprised of these several related/interconnected thread topics)---making myself a cup-o'-joe and I'm gonna kick back and take a look at this interesting thread.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
36. Beautiful job
in presenting this material.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
41. EXCELLENT BR_Parkway
I'm passing this along, you don't mind do you?

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
43. Oh my word. GREAT WORK!
Edited on Thu Feb-02-06 01:35 PM by mzmolly
THIS is getting reallllly GOOD. :beer:
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
46. Oh, please Cheny first ... then bus$h
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
47. Why is no one jumping up and down on the Judy Miller part?
That's what jumped out at me:
As we discussed during our telephone conversation, Mr. Libby testified in the grand jury that he had contact with reporters in which he disclosed the content of the National Intelligence Estimate ("NIB") to such reporters in the course of his interaction with reporters in June and July 2003 (and caused at least one other government official to discuss the NIE with the media in July 2003). We also note that it is our understanding that Mr. Libby testified that he was authorized to disclose information about the NIE to the press by his superiors. We expect that such conduct will be the subject of proof at trial in that we intend to introduce Libby's grand jury transcript in evidence and Mr. Libby has testified that the purpose of his July 8 meeting with Ms. Miller was to transmit information concerning the NIE. Our anticipated basis for offering such evidence is that such facts are inextricably intertwined with the narrative of the events of spring 2003, as Libby's testimony itself makes plain. At this time, we do not intend to offer the evidence pursuant to Rule 404(b).

The point here is that the July 8 meeting was the second occasion on which Libby chatted about Valerie Plame with Miller. As it says in the indictment:
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/28/libby-indictments/

On or about the morning of July 8, 2003, LIBBY met with New York Times reporter Judith Miller. When the conversation turned to the subject of Joseph Wilson, LIBBY asked that the information LIBBY provided on the topic of Wilson be attributed to a former Hill staffer rather than to a senior administration official, as had been the understanding with respect to other information that LIBBY provided to Miller during this meeting. LIBBY thereafter discussed with Miller Wilson’s trip and criticized the CIA reporting concerning Wilson’s trip. During this discussion, LIBBY advised Miller of his belief that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA.

So in line with his "I had more important things on my mind" defense strategy, Libby is apparently planning to claim that he *really* met with Miller to leak information about the NIE, and just happened to drop Valerie Plame's name in a fit of absent-mindedness. But instead, he may have drawn far more attention to that meeting than is really good for him . . .


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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
48. K & R. BR_Parkway, you're right on target!
:kick:
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
49. It's looking like quite a conspiracy....

the use of the MSM as such a TOOL cannot be stressed enough.

The connection to Rove has always been obvious, and now direct connections to Cheney and directly to Bush may be coming to light. Personally I'd like to see the chain of command to Hadley and Rice investigated more. Rice may be the devil that no one realizes yet.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
50. I am thrilled Fitz is dealing with these bastards.
His bio makes it abundantly clear he HATES being lied to, and damned if that isn't this crowd's M.O.
I hope he slams the hammer down on them ... soon ... and hard.
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
52. From today's National Journal- Iraq, Niger, And The CIA
ADMINISTRATION
Iraq, Niger, And The CIA

By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, Feb. 2, 2006

Vice President Cheney and his then-Chief of Staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby were personally informed in June 2003 that the CIA no longer considered credible the allegations that Saddam Hussein had attempted to procure uranium from the African nation of Niger, according to government records and interviews with current and former officials. The new CIA assessment came just as Libby and other senior administration officials were embarking on an effort to discredit an administration critic who had also been saying that the allegations were untrue.

CIA analysts wrote then-CIA Director George Tenet in a highly classified memo on June 17, 2003, "We no longer believe there is sufficient" credible information to "conclude that Iraq pursued uranium from abroad." The memo was titled: "In Response to Your Questions for Our Current Assessment and Additional Details on Iraq's Alleged Pursuits of Uranium From Abroad." Despite the CIA's findings, Libby attempted to discredit former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who had been sent on a CIA-sponsored mission to Niger the previous year to investigate the claims, which he concluded were baseless.

<snip>

Tenet requested the previously undisclosed intelligence assessment in large part because of repeated inquiries from Cheney and Libby regarding the Niger matter and Wilson's mission, although neither Cheney nor Libby specifically asked that the new review be conducted, according to government records and to current and former government officials. Tenet also asked for the assessment because information about Wilson's mission to Niger had begun to appear in the media, and Tenet thought that the press or Capitol Hill might raise additional questions about the matter.

<snip>

The answer may lie in part with the already well-known misgivings about the CIA by Cheney, Libby, and other senior Bush administration officials. At one point during that period -- the summer of 2003 -- Libby confronted a senior intelligence analyst briefing him and the vice president and accused the CIA of willfully misleading him and the administration on Niger. Libby was said to be upset that the CIA, in his view, had routinely minimized the extent to which Iraq was pursuing weapons of mass destruction and was now prematurely attempting to distance itself from the Niger allegations.

<snip>

Libby, according to people with knowledge of the events, said that he and Cheney had come to believe that WINPAC was presenting Saddam Hussein's pursuit of such weapons in a far more benign light than Iraq's intents and capabilities reflected. Libby cited CIA bureaucratic inertia and caution and his view that many of WINPAC's analysts were aligned with foreign-policy elites who did not support the war with Iraq.
Libby and others in the office of the vice president apparently were even more suspicious because they mistakenly believed that Plame worked for WINPAC, according to these sources. When they also learned that Plame possibly played a role in Wilson's selection for the Niger mission, their suspicions only intensified.

http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2006/0203nj3.htm
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
53. Kick. Page 6 is hot!
This says that Libby got the OK to release by his superiors!!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
54. Excellent post and article! Thank you!
It seems the Special Counsel has bigger fish to fry.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
55. .
.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
56. kicking for awareness n/t
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
63. somebody who knows him - email David Schuster a MSNBC
EOM
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
64. Comments and questions...
Am I wrong, or is this the first public indication that Libby's actions (the leak) were "authorized by his superiors"? Maybe I'm having a memory blank here. As I recall, the Libby indictment says that Cheney told Libby Plame's identity (technically not a crime, both had clearance to know it), but NOT that Cheney authorized the leak of that info. ??? Right? In fact, that's what Libby is covering up.

QUESTION FOR BR_Parkway: Do you know the provenance of this OP, or of the various docs at
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Court_filings_shed_more_light_on_0202.html ?

Is this OP a leak? From Libby's lawyer? Is it a public document? (Rawstory just says it was "released" and hadn't been noticed by the corporate news monopolies.) What about the other sources at Rawstory? (For instance, "astute bloggers" discovering that Wilson won't be testifying, and that another Time reporter (Dickerson, now of Slate) is involved?) I'm just trying to gage what-all's going on here behind the scenes.

----------------------------

Quote from Fitzgerald to Libby's lawyer (from the OP above)):

"We expect that such conduct (that Libby was authorized to leak Nat'l Intel Estimate-NEI info by his superiors) will be the subject of proof at trial in that we intend to introduce Libby's grand jury transcript in evidence and Mr. Libby has testified that the purpose of his July 8 meeting with Ms. Miller was to transmit infonnation concerning the NIE. OUf anticipated basis for offering such evidence is that such facts are inextricably intertwined with the narrative of the events of spring 2003, as Libby's testimony itself makes plain. At this timeJ we do not intend to offer the evidence pursuant to Rule 404(b)."

Depending on how you interpret "such conduct" in the first sentence, it could mean that Fitzgerald is going to nail Libby's superiors (the most obvious Cheney and Bush) in the Libby trial, but is not "at this time" charging Libby with the Plame leak. There are not many other ways to interpret "such conduct" (it follows directly from the sentence above it--that the conduct in question is that of Libby's superiors). And (implication of the final sentence of the paragraph) Fitzgerald is NOT going let Libby's lawyers see what evidence he has against Libby's superiors BECAUSE he is not currently charging Libby with the leak. (--i.e., no one authorized or ordered Libby to commit perjury or obstruct justice, so far as we know--the "authorization" at issue in this case was of the Plame leak itself, and WHO authorized it is the reason for perjury/obstruction coverup that Libby is guilty of. This OTHER "authorization by his superiors"--of NEI info--is related, perhaps is contextual, or is yet another crime. (Was NEI classified?) Possible upshot: If Libby's leaks were "authorized," generally, why didn't he also get the Plame leak authorized, and, if he did, who authorized it? This is the "obstruction" that Libby is charged with--covering up who authorized it.

This, a) certainly does point to Cheney and Bush as the most culpable perps; b) indicates a wide ranging investigation (why would the Prez and VP of the United States put a CIA agent's life, the lives of her entire covert network, in jeopardy?*); c) puts pressure on Libby to disclose more (sounds like Fitz already has a case to charge Libby directly for the leak--why isn't he doing so? (obvious answer, because higher ups were involved, and he wants more evidence on them from Libby.) (He said in his Libby press conference that Libby was obstructing him from answering the question "why was this leaked?," and the relevance of "why" to nat' security--which he said was his main pursuit).

--------------------

Questions:

*1/ This question just occurred to me: If Plame was such a thorn in their side, why didn't they fire her? Theoretically, they could fire anybody working for the Fed gov't. Was their NOT firing her also evidence of a coverup? (She had goods on them, on some serious matter?) Or is there/was there some other, deeper "cloak and dagger" thing going on? (I don't know; I'm thinking, the CIA protecting its own.) (This question presumes that the real target was Plame; Wilson was a secondary target; and a lot of people besides me are convinced of this.)

2/ If the Bush junta-ites had a hand in forging the Niger documents--which is likely--and therefore knew that the Niger/Iraq claim was bogus, WHY were they pestering the CIA with questions about Iraq/Niger? And why did they permit Wilson to go to Niger to nose around, knowing that he would find nothing? (--ambassador would be noticed; he had to have had authorization from somebody at State or WH). This question keeps bothering me: It points to the Niger forgeries being a set-up (of the CIA, by the Bushites?).

3/ And again--a question I keep asking--why the bloody PANIC to out Plame in the week of July 6-12? They could have punished Wilson in a hundred other ways. They could have fired Plame. They could have taken their time. IF their motive was merely punishment of Wilson for his public dissent. Instead, they contacted at least SIX reporters--six journalist witnesses to treason--in one week, probably had WHIG meetings about it, and involved potentially all of Air Force I by faxing the Plame memo to the plane, putting numerous top Bushites at risk of treason charges (technically, felony for disclosure of secrets--but this disclosure was extremely serious, could be looked at as treason, and might be chargeable as treason, and if any covert agents/contacts were killed, as accessory to murder). WHY the rush? WHY involve so many top people? It is just not believable that all of this was over a P.R. problem (a former ambassador's dissenting article).

----------------

As some here may know, I favor the WMD-planting theory of Treasongate--which includes the premise that the Niger forgeries were a SET-UP of the CIA (by the Bushites and their Italian-fascist and Iranian-arms dealer coherts), and were made to be deliberately crude documents (easily detectable as forgeries) so as to bait the CIA into a public no nukes position on Iraq--to be trumped that spring/summer by a phony "find" of nukes in Iraq (possibly with Judith Miller getting "the scoop"). Wilson's publication of his article on July 6 was as far as they got. It was not the trigger for the Plame outing, but rather something they had planned on. (By their putting the Niger claim BACK into Bush's SOTU speech, despite the claim having been debunked by Wilson and others, they virtually guaranteed dissent.) SOMETHING ELSE was the trigger for the Plame outing. And two other things were going on: 1) NO nukes or other WMDs were found in Iraq (if they had a plan to plant them there, it was foiled); and 2) David Kelly's whistleblowing to the BBC about the "sexed up" prewar intel on Iraq, at first anonymous whistleblowing (starting in late May), then the Brits found out who the whistleblower was (their chief WMD expert Kelly), and interrogated him the WEEK BEFORE Plame was outed.

The timeline goes like this: July 6-Wilson publishes his article. July 7-Tony Blair is informed that Kelly knew more than he was saying. July 14-Plame is outed, by Novak. July 18--Kelly is found dead near his home, under highly suspicious circumstances, his office searched, his computers confiscated. July 22-Plame's entire worldwide counter-proliferation network, Brewster-Jennings, is outed by Novak.

I think it's possible that Libby and Miller's meeting on July 8 was prompted by information from BLAIR, as much as it was about information on Plame and how to ruin her network (by outing it), and that David Kelly may have been a major subject of the meeting. (Recall that Miller wanted to limit testimony on that meeting to Plame only.) The dates here are just TOO coincidental. July 6, July 7, July 8. One week later Plame is outed. Two weeks later Kelly is dead. Four days after that, Brewster-Jennings is outed.

Did Plame/BJ foil a plan to plant nukes on Iraqi soil; did Kelly get killed because he found out about it, or participated in it (the foiling of the plot)? Is the outing of Plame/BJ the coverup of an attempted Bushite Iraq/WMD deceit (planting the weapons) and part of the Bushite war against the honest part of the CIA (starting way back in 2001 with the Rome meeting of Ladeen, Ghorbanifar and Italian intel)? (Note: Ladeen was reporting to Hadley, and probably Rumsfeld; Ghorbanifar was persona non grata at the CIA and probably has a grudge against them; as for Italian intel, I don't know--maybe they have dreams of a New Holy Roman Empire.) (This experienced "cloak and dagger" group couldn't come up with forgeries that had plausible names and dates on them???)

That's the gist of the WMD-planting theory. There could be other reasons that Bush & Co. (esp. Cheney) wanted to destroy the CIA's counter-proliferation network (Cheney illiciit arms dealing?). The dates/themes of a Plame/Kelly connection are fairly compelling.

-----------

Back to Fitzgerald and his OP letter to Libby's lawyer: He has to be asking the question, why would Dick Cheney want to out a CIA agent? (or Bush, or whoever else was involved--my guess for mastermind being Rumsfeld). Dick Cheney is IN CHARGE OF THE GOVERNMENT. Bush is the titular head. Rumsfeld is co-baron. WHY would such big players involve themselves in such a crime, when they have the resources of the entire gov't (not to mention private resources) at their disposal? This is Fitzgerald's stated purpose: Finding out WHY. (If it was a rogue action, or inadvertent, that's one thing; if it was a conspiracy at the top, that's quite another--and all of it is a nat'l security issue.) (Who the hell do we have running our gov't?)

Fitzgerald (in the above letter--see the Rawstory link) also says that there has been NO investigation of damage to CIA activities from the Plame/BJ leak--which I find incredible. Wouldn't that be the FIRST thing a President would do--if he WASN'T involved--find out the damage level?

Fitzgerald says this in response to a Libby lawyer request for any document about a damage investigation. So Fitzgerald must have ASKED. He says it without reservation--there was NO investigation. He has to be basing that on an official query. That ALONE is a serious threat to nat'l security. We DON'T KNOW what the damage was?! Because we (the gov't, Bush/Cheney) haven't ASKED for an assessment?! Ye gods! (Another possibility: They're lying to Fitzgerald. And another: They didn't need to do an investigation, because the outing was PLANNED, to inflict certain damage--on Plame and on her network. Mission accomplished. No report needed.)

Libby's lawyer probably wants to argue that the Plame leak was unimportant--didn't warrant a damage assessment. But the absence of such a report does not establish importance either way. What it does establish is NEGLIGENCE on the part of Libby's superiors, and what it points to is COMPLICITY in the leak. Why haven't they done a damage assessment? If there was no damage, why wouldn't they want to prove it (as a defense for Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Hadley, Rice, Libby, Rove and whoever else was involved, and as a leaked 'talking point" to the nation? They didn't even do a whitewash assessment. And what about the CIA itself? It's beyond belief that they did no assessment. Were they ordered not to put it in writing? Or ordered not to do it at all? What the hell is going on here?

Fitzgerald implies that the NEI leak authorization is context (for Libby's perjury/obstruction). They were authorizing him to do that. Why wouldn't they also be the ones authorizing the Plame leak? But it points to far more than obstruction, and to far more than this trial. IF Cheney, Bush or Rumsfeld authorized the Plame leak, or stood by while it was done and didn't stop it, and then failed to investigate it, or are covering up the findings of an investigation, then we have a GRAVE nat'l security problem. No one in gov't is safe from them.

Those of us who assess this regime as a fascist junta--and, truly, it's hard not to (to any reasonable and knowledgeable person)--already believe, on the basis of considerable evidence, that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and their underlings, and players in the background, constitute a grave threat to all of us, and to others in the world. But most other Americans, though they may detest Bush & Co. (38% approval rating), may not know the extent of this regime's crimes, and certainly don't know how to get rid of them. We tried voting. That didn't work (Bush's buds at Diebold and ES&S control the vote tabulation--and the war profiteering corporate news monopolies acted in concert, on election night 2004, to cover that up as well). If Fitzgerald is able to nail them with this crime, two of them can only be prosecuted by the US Congress, which is a rubber-stamp for the junta, no matter what they do. And they have meanwhile packed the Supreme Court with more of their good buds. Successful prosecution of Libby, Rove, or others--and certainly of Rumsfeld and/or Rice--could hamper the regime on some of their worser projects, but it wouldn't remove them from power.

It's difficult to see a feasible remedy. A big overturning of the Congress in the '06 election would certainly help--if we can overcome the fraud. (I believe that, in some cases, sheer numbers can overcome the automatic 5% to 10% advantage that is being given to Republicans by these machines. Work to restore transparent elections, and to closely monitor elections, is also very important.)

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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Interesting that you mention "dreams of a new Holy Roman Empire"...

in reading up on vast, worldwide conspiracy theories one thing that comes to mind are writings that indicate that P2 and other mafia forces have taken control over the Vatican, with Ratzinger being appointed Pope as sealing the deal. Recall the conspiracy theory of why Pope John Paul I may have been assassinated, because he sided too much with socialists.

I wonder if there may be an underlying grand conflict between an "Old Europe"/Knights of Malta type effort in establishing a world base in the Eurasian continent vs. a "New World"/New World Order effort of establishing it in the U.S./Washington? Could this be how "9/11 changed everything"? Rogue CIA vs. CIA?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. No, what I meant was Italian fascists dreaming of taking over the Mideast
after we've run out of money and cannon fodder, and/or the Amer people finally storm the Bastille. Because what the Ital fascists were doing was, a) either egging the Bush junta on, to invade, and/or, b) colluding with them to trump up lies for invasion (and/or, lies to "get" the CIA and purge it of all the honest public employees and dissenters who think their job is to foster peace not manufacture war). (--I do favor the latter motive for their having created such bad forgeries--it was deliberate--but their plan to then plant the nukes in Iraq got crashed probably a party of white hat CIA).

I'm not sure about Ratzinger and the Vatican. They had to purge some Opus Dei fascists back in the 80s (big banking scams). But the Catholic mafia is still around, for sure. I think it sits on our Supreme Court. And one of the banking scandal players was Cardinal Castillo Lara in Venezuela who hates Chavez (however, Vatican tried to distance itself from him on the Chavez matter, as did Venez bishops).

I think it's just an Ital fascist pipe dream--Rome III. They've been assholes since about the 5th century. They had their run at global empire. And boy was it bad for just about everybody. Hope that never happens again. (A thousand years of darkness.) (They did do the Renaissance, however. If they'd just stick to art and philosophy, and knowing how to live, they wouldn't be such bad dudes.)
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-03-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. I'll take one more hack at this then I'll give up...

Looking at it as an East vs. whatever type scenario: what if they've secretly engaged Russia and China? Hasn't totalitarian Russia and Eastern Europe been infiltrated by the mafia and corruption? Is there that much difference between totalitarian fascism and the type of corporatism that has taken hold in China (no matter that the people still think its communism)? There's also Sun Myung Moon's influence in Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and elsewhere.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-04-06 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. Both you two really have some interesting theories, points, and crissed
crossed references.

Israel, House of Saud, Vatican, Opus Dei, BFEE, Dumbsfeld/Cheney, Gladio/P2, Freemasons/Knights Templar, Council of Chalcedon. - who am I missing

They all make strange bedfellows but not when you throw in absolute power/money/control of the world into the equation, kind of like the game of Risk. Eventually though in the ultimate conquest of the world in the game alliances have to be broken in order for there to be a winner and a looser.

Just thinking out loud.

BTW I emailed you all a thread.

Peace!
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-04-06 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Thanks for keeping us posted stb....

There's so much fabricated stuff out there, sometimes its hard to keep focused on facts. I like to think of it this way: those who have power and control want to maintain power and control and they will play into others' belief systems. Neoconservatives want to stir up things and bring about change which is all good and well, but not when it means it has to be done through massive use of military power, not when it provides incredible profiteering opportunities for their cronies, and not if the rest of us end up becoming enslaved in a system that we didn't bargain for.

Check out this thread which delves into WACL, the Safari Club, the Muslim Brotherhood, Libertarians, and Pinay Circle:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x306462

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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-04-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. Great insight on the lack of a Damage Assessment/Investigation
and also on Cheney/Dumbsfeld being Co-Baron's

here is a link on Libby's superiors

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x315071

also here is a link from BR_Parkway on some more Fitz gems

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x315885
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-04-06 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
70. Great find!
:yourock:
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