The Immigration War at DU

[melissinha]

Let's face it, we have finally come across a real issue which has the people of DU in an uproar.

You know what? I welcome it!! We are so used to agreeing with each other on so many things, its high time we get into a real discussion in the friendly confines of DU.

I can see all the sides, but we have to remember that this is all the design of "ruling class" pit American citizens against the illegals so we will never get a fair wage for either side... Just great. We need to recognize the true enemy and that is the corporations and politicians that support the hiring of illegals and the exportation of jobs to India and China.

Hey, I'm on the fence. Like most of you, I am a descendent of many immigrants and I really do not want to be a hypocrit with respect to this issue, I speak Spanish and have worked Customer Service for Spanish Speakers...When I moved to the states people asked me if I lived in a tree house... (incidentally I am a dual citizen born in Brazil) But I also see the skilled laborer who is being displaced by illegal immigrants.... who is out of a job because he can't underbid. Meanwhile employers make cash hand over fist in the unpaid taxes they save not to mention the lower pay.

I think we need to push for real international relations with Central and South America, work to put the minimum wage ahead of inflation and bring our jobs back here. We need to demand that corporations pay their fair share of taxes and if they go off-shore, we can make it a policy to not import their crap...

I know I don't have all the answers but please remember that we were all descendents of immigrants, but we have to look out for our current workforce too.

[Critters2]

1. Well said!

Thanks!

[mdmc]

2. I don't mind all the contention

I am pro immigrant.

[BillZBubb]

3. Yep the Repugs have found the wedge to divide us!

Of all the problems in this world, illegal immigration has to rank right up there with unwanted nose hair. But no matter, the emotions will take over and even some DUers will sign on with the right wing misdirection.

[rzemanfl]

6. Rove is earning his pay with this one. Why won't the government

punish EMPLOYERS who openly flout the laws we already have?

[BrklynLiberal]

9. EXACTLY! The latest wedge issue is immigration.

That is the key to all this. They know the emotion this will arouse and are using this issue to divide us...quite successfully, obviously.

This distraction takes advantage of just about every stereotype, and base emotional "button" available from "blame the victim" to "Scapegoating" to "If I have mine, screw you, buddy".

This is like a poison pill for the middle class. It is suicide for us to allow the Repukes to allow us to be pulled into this self-destructive conflict.
We should be demanding back the high-paying jobs that are being outsourced instead of complaining about the "illegal aliens" taking away the low paying jobs we would not take anyway.

All of this is part of the big plan to destroy the middle class and we are being duped into playing right along with it.

We may as well be saying, "Thank you sir, May I have another" to those that are slapping our asses with a 2 by 4 wooden board.

[Warpy]

4. Attack the problem at the root, attack cheap labor conservatism

Raise the floor for wages to a livable level and ENFORCE IT by big fines and long jail terms for any employer who doesn't pay it, no matter who he's conned into working for less than it takes to stay alive.

That's the problem, really, a ridiciulously low minimum wage. Employers can advertise a job at $5.15/hour, a wage not compatible with life in the US, and then get away with whining that Americans don't want to work.

Raise the minimum. Enforce it. Employers will naturally prefer to hire people that share their language and culture. Americans will naturally be preferred to work those jobs.

End cheap labor conservatism. Take the profit out of exploitation. Then watch the Mexicans stay home unless they're able to come in legally with job contracts signed and sealed.

[peace frog]

8. Hear hear!

:applause:

[texastoast]

5. This and other issues are biggies for the Dems

We must promulgate solutions that work for and with everyone, and I don't think it is impossible.

Many "illegals" would like to become tax-paying citizens
Many "illegals" do not pay taxes
Many "illegals" send the majority of the money they make in the U.S. home to families
Many "illegals" spend much of their earnings in the U.S.
Many corporations do not want "illegals" to become legal
Many "illegals" perform work that spoiled Americans will not do

What exactly can the Dems do to get these issues working for taxpaying Americans?

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. Immigration is a red herring that came out of no place to distract

attention from the war in Iraq.

[IselaB]

10. I only know one thing

There isn't a Republican candidate in America up for reelection this year who doesn't hope this is still what everybody's talking about in November.

You're a Republican congressman, and you have to stand before your NASCAR constituency and answer questions about one of the following topics. Which do you prefer?

1. The Iraq War.

2. Jack Abramoff.

3. Corruption scandals.

4. Global warming.

5. Katrina

6. Brown people who enter the country secretly and illegally and then protest by the hundreds of thousands, demanding the right to be treated as guest workers and promised a path to permanent citizenship.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. Nothing could make KKKarl Rove happier than to have us arguing about

immigration right thru election day......

[BrklynLiberal]

11. Why is Immigration getting so much attention? DUH!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x767788

[Left Below]

13. Great post! Luis will always work for less $$ than Joe Sixpack

So Joe Sixpack will favor the hard-line GOP on this issue.

[APPLE314]

14. Hip Hip Hooorah

It is corporate America ducking their responsibilty and shoving their burdens on us.

[cantstandbush]

15. Not all are descendants of "immigrants". Some descend from slaves and

others are descendants of the indigenous people who were here long before the "immigrants."

[Minnesota Libra]

16. "look out for our current workforce too" - that would be nice but.......

.....of course so many want to blame the corporations or the government only. But what about the small businesses or the home owner who pretty much knows the guy they pay to do the lawn or do the roof is an illegal alien?? They need to get hit with a huge fine as well.

This illegal alien issue is one I've lived up close and personal and so it is the one and only issue I consistently disagree with most Democrats/Liberals on.

[mistyeye]

17. the wedge is the people versus the powerful

not republican versus democrat. The people want immigration regulated and wage and job protection laws enforced. The powerful 1)want cheap, exploitable labor 2)have a job that is not threatened by cheap explotiable labor.

[QC]

18. Good post, and welcome to DU! n/t

[dolstein]

19. My grandparents immigrated legally

Sorry, but the issue isn't immigration. It's illegal immigration. Why do so many people ignore this distinction?

While I spare no scorn for people who employ illegal immigrants, people are enter this country illegally, or remain in this country after their temporary visas expire, as breaking the law. They aren't "innocents" in any sense of the word. And illegal immigrants make it possible for employers to fill jobs without paying market wages.

[Bridget Burke]

20. Handling of immigration needs improvement, but there's no CRISIS!

Arguing about the Immigration Crisis(TM) does distract us from more urgent issues.

However, it's not just dividing Democrats.

The angst in Congress contrasts sharply with largely joyous pro-immigrant demonstrations around the country, prompting political scientist Sherry Bebitch Jeffe of the University of Southern California to remark on the political effects of the debate that so many conservatives have been demanding: "It energizes the Democratic base and splits the Republican base."

May it ever be thus.

Cragg Hines in the Houston Chronicle: http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/hines/3755240.html

[sandnsea]

21. True enemy, exploitation of workers, PERIOD

As long as we keep fighting amongst ourselves, they'll keep exploiting workers. It doesn't matter whether it's the US work force, illegals, the Mariana Islands, India and China, or Iraq and the Gulf Coast,; when we don't stand up for every worker, we all go down together. It's so so simple, but people keep putting short-sighted, self-serving interests over the bigger picture that will really make a difference.

[JeffR]

22. The problem is not DUers disagreeing with each other

The problem is the way in which some people (on all sides of the issue) have insulted, slandered, willfully misinterpreted, distorted and talked past opposing viewpoints.

I'm not into self-righteousness (that's a Republican trait, IMO) but some of the displays here over the past few days have been utterly sickening.

No shot directed at the OP. I'm just pointing out that some of the behavior in these nauseatingly predictable, um, "discussions" about immigration has been disgraceful.