Clark supporters anti-Dean strategy exposed -

[Scott Lee]

Rule number one for Good Agitprop....don't advertise your strategy to the enemy. The following has been postd on a Clark blog:


Please use this blog entry to keep a running list of all of Dean's monumentally stupid statements that give you concern he is not fit to be the democratic nominee. Let's see how many we can get. I will edit the post to add the statements we collect.

Let me start you off with what may be the most recent one:

1. Dean yesterday told a New Hampshire audience "the only way to have a Jewish democracy is to get out of the West Bank at some point because otherwise, you have a democracy; it's not a Jewish state. It's a Jewish state, it's not a democracy."

http://cat-m.forclark.com/story/2003/12/24/202943/67


Note: I guess no one informed this genius that imposing a government on the West Bank outside of the wishes of the Palestinian people INDEED would NOT be a "democracy".

Support Clark! It's an End Run Around Thinking!

[eileen_d]

1. Supporting Clark

does not mean supporting all of his supporters.

Next...

[Scott Lee]

4. Then you'd better huddle with them and set 'em straight

...lest they end up hurting your guy more than helping him, ne?

[eileen_d]

6. Did freedom of speech get repealed last night?

It's a BLOG, for crying out loud. Who gives a shit?

[dsc]

20. Idle curiousity

Sorry this is where I meant to post this. I notice no criticism of this thread from you. It is on the very same page as the thread we are in. Care to expound upon the difference.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=28406&mesg_id=28406

[eileen_d]

27. OMG - I just woke up! I can't be everywhere at once

I didn't see the thread in question until you pointed it out. I don't post in every single thread on DU. Sheesh...

The initial post in the thread you refer to is lame flamebait, but it's got plenty of other responses deeming it exactly that, so I see no reason to kick it.

[eileen_d]

44. So did I pass the test?

Whatever it was... That's just some idle curiosity on my part...

[dsc]

101. I still find it interesting that you found the time

to criticise this thread and not the other one. I have yet to have you enunciate a difference that is relevant.

[neuvocat]

11. I take it that all Dean supporters are just like yourself.

I mean, going on with the rampant paranoia and overgeneralizations of entire groups of people based solely on who they would vote for.

[dsc]

22. Idle curiousity

I notice not one word of criticism on this thread from you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=28406&mesg_id=28406

Care to expound on the differences? Inquiring minds want to know

[Scott Lee]

25. Hehe, it wasn't from a DEAN blog, Sir.

Hence the thread. My advice is that if you are repulsed by such juvenile wastes of time like "gotcha" politics invited by the Clark blogger I posted, you should make your opinion known amongst your own. I would support you in this.

[dsc]

18. self deleted to move

self edit wrong place

[auntpattywatty]

2. Is forcing Democracy onIraq the same thing - you know - like Bush is doing

[Scott Lee]

3. Forced democracy anywhere is self cancelling, wouldnt you say?

[jmaier]

5. I second eileen

you could grab selective quotes from anybody's supporters at their campaign blog, dailykos, etc. and find quite a bit of misguided, even rather stupid, rhetoric.

To cite any of those comments as direct evidence of the candidate's own views or a statement of campaign policy isn't just disingenous, it's moronic.

What possible purpose does a thread like this serve other than to simply propogate the candidate-bashing tripe that many of us are growning very weary of having to wade through.

Another nice contribution, Scott! :puke:

[Scott Lee]

8. It's called Fighting Fire with Fire, my friend

Hopefully this will decrease the never ending stream of bile against Howard Dean and lead to a civil discourse once again, in which I'll bet the Dean contingent will reply in kind.

What do you think the chances are?

[eileen_d]

16. That's an interesting theory

but I think it has been proven that it won't work. On this very forum. Many times over.

If you fight fire with fire, you get more scorched earth.

[Monte Carlo]

17. Two wrongs don't make a right, guy.

Just remember that if you really want civil discourse.

[Scott Lee]

28. Exposing a wrong is wrong? I'm sure you didn't mean that,

Or did you?

[Monte Carlo]

32. I reiterate, two wrongs don't make a right...

... nor can you get civil discourse from uncivil discourse. I'm telling you right now, you are uncivil in your discourse, so spare the rest of us this eternal victim routine.

[Scott Lee]

37. OK, exposing "uncivil discourse" is uncivil itself?

I'm truly not getting your meaning here. If your philosophy stands, then denouncing a liar would be a lying offense.

[Monte Carlo]

41. It's not what do, it's how you do it.

That's what being civil is all about. It's what politics is all about; about 20% what you say, about 80% how you say it.

My "philosophy" stands? You can extract all of that from a few replies? You must be psychic.

[eileen_d]

42. LOL

Exposing uncivil discourse with more uncivil discourse does not make the latter uncivil discourse any less uncivil.

I'm going to go get drunk now. I suggest everyone who's posted on this thread do the same. :toast:

[Monte Carlo]

43. Indeed. All DUers need to drink more...

... and take a step back from politics once in a while. Get your heads back in the real world.

[burning bush]

99. Thats a joke, right?

drink more, and get your head back in the real world?

[Scott Lee]

52. you still havent described what is "uncivil" in this instance

But never mind - have a drink on me.

[TLM]

75. It is uncivil to dare to point out that Clark supporters

seem more interested in taking out the democratic frontrunner, than beating Bush.


Really makes one wonder.

[windansea]

19. funny

just posted a new thread asking about who has the best exit strategy

"I think the flame wars over IWR...who supported it...who opposed it etc are getting boring. I also think the Dem candidate with the best plan to exit Iraq will win the nomination and also has the best chance to win the GE.

Please support your candidate and his or her plan to get out of Iraq, and explain why their plan will work.

Respectful criticism on why said plans might not work are also encouraged."

Your response:

"the best strategy was not to vote for WAR to begin with
So thanks alot Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman and Edwards.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=29399#29460

[jmaier]

29. Ah,

so the justification for behaving poorly is because some other people are behaving poorly. Sounds like the kind of juvenile nonsense that my children spout: "well, she did it first!"

Interesting.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

63. Makes about as much sense

as fighting fire with gasoline.

sigh

[maddezmom]

7. just a thought ~ you might want to edit the title

Anti-candidate X name is now against the rules.

[Scott Lee]

12. In this case the title describes a strategy against my candidate

so since I'm the one using it (to describe a strategy, not a person) it should be ok. I hope.

[mikehiggins]

81. You might consider "some Clark supporters' "

That would seem more accurate since there are a lot of Clark supporters and not all, or even a majority of them support this effort to chronicle the words of Doctor Dean.

I gather the Dean supporters feel that their candidate is somehow being unfairly singled out for criticism and that is sad. Perhaps everyone should tone it down so their feelings won't get hurt.

After all, the nominee has already been displayed to us. What point discussing any problems you might have with the Chosen One?

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. There's a fine line somewhere

No doubt sometimes Clark supporters end up on the wrong side of it. It is legitimate to question positions and statements made by a candidate that one feels demonstrate a legitimate weakness of that candidate. The candidates do that themselves, all of them do including Dean. I don't like the tone though of compiling a hit list against any candidate and hereby say so formally. I don't think any of us, or our candidates, should participate in "gotcha politics". Too much of that crap going around, both by candidates and their supporters.

[Scott Lee]

15. You're a smart man.

Glad to have you around, Tom.

[bearfartinthewoods]

10. you might mention to your candidate that rule number one also applies

to him.

do not advertise that you are about to commence pandering to the religious south.

[Scott Lee]

13. Oh, you mean the South that Dean is leading Clark in, 3:1?

Yes, that South. Thanks for reminding me!

[bearfartinthewoods]

30. i can't blame you for trying to forget

considering he has been running for four times as long
and been spending six times as much
and getting five times the free press
and STILL is only polling three times as well
i'd try and forget such a poor performance too.

[Scott Lee]

33. Yet the reality stands. Dean's on top in the South.

I'm so sorry to bring that news to you.

[bearfartinthewoods]

38. yes...reality is a harsh taskmaster but

the future is not set

[JNelson6563]

54. I've got some reality for you

Comments made in May 2001 surfaced, showing Clark heaping praise on Bush and his team: 'I'm very glad we've got the great team in office, men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice... people I know very well - our President George W Bush. We need them there,' he told an Arkansas Republican dinner.

And this was before 9/11, before it was practically mandatory to suck up to the fascists.

That caused dismay among many supporters. 'People know that if Clark wins the Democrat nomination, those quotes are just a Republican attack ad waiting to happen,' Zogby said.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1091321,00.html

Oh don't we know it!

Sept. 29 issue - After Al Qaeda attacked America, retired Gen. Wes Clark thought the Bush administration would invite him to join its team. After all, he’d been NATO commander, he knew how to build military coalitions and the investment firm he now worked for had strong Bush ties. But when GOP friends inquired, they were told: forget it.

WORD WAS THAT Karl Rove, the president’s political mastermind, had blocked the idea. Clark was furious. Last January, at a conference in Switzerland, he happened to chat with two prominent Republicans, Colorado Gov. Bill Owens and Marc Holtzman, now president of the University of Denver. “I would have been a Republican,” Clark told them, “if Karl Rove had returned my phone calls.” Soon thereafter, in fact, Clark quit his day job and began seriously planning to enter the presidential race-as a Democrat. Messaging NEWSWEEK by BlackBerry, Clark late last week insisted the remark was a “humorous tweak.” The two others said it was anything but. “He went into detail about his grievances,” Holtzman said. “Clark wasn’t joking. We were really shocked.”

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3087185/

Julie

[Scott Lee]

57. "reality is a harsh taskmaster"???

Hoo boy.

[AWD]

65. Kind of rough, huh???

To hear lessons about reality from someone who knows of no such thing....

[Scott Lee]

97. LOL! Took the words right out of my mouth....

[burning bush]

103. Hang on to that, BF!

Your candidate isn't as far behind as he could be--or should be, if I read you correctly!

Now that's a reason to celebrate...No wonder you do everything you can to diss and diminish Dean.

:)

[Monte Carlo]

14. YOU are doing more harm to Dean's rep around here than anything else...

... meaning all these j'accuse posts. Just accept that Dean is no saint and move on.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[meow mix]

23. limbaugh quotes DU

this poster quotes some-persons weblog. same thing

[Scott Lee]

34. All's fair in love, war, and DU.

I see a bumper sticker coming...

[NV1962]

24. Uh

According to the quote, Howard Dean said: "the only way to have a Jewish democracy is to get out of the West Bank at some point because otherwise, you have a democracy; it's not a Jewish state. It's a Jewish state, it's not a democracy."

There, he effectively states that the occupation of the West Bank makes it a democracy that isn't Jewish. Like, huh?

Having said that: I'm not into keeping "warlogs" (yes, I leave the "b" out) on fellow party candidates - unless there's an overt, frontal conflict over their positions. I don't see that with Clark and Dean, overall.

I think the sights are, and should be, on the WH.

[rogerashton]

47. It's interesting that this is the only comment so far on the quote itself.

Israel + West Bank has an Arab majority. Thus, it can either be a Jewish state or a democracy, not both. To be both a Jewish state and a democracy Israel would have to exist within borders with a (large) Jewish majority. I believe this is a widely understood fact among Israeli democrats and in any case it is simple arithmetic. So why is this quote supposed to embarrass Dean? It is embarrassing to be able to do arithmetic in American politics? So it would seem!

[lastliberalintexas]

71. Even some Israeli

leaders have woken up to this fact and have changed their positions on maintaining settlements in the West Bank. It seems that the Jewish purity of the state is more important to them than holding onto mere land. And some of them are even Likud members, IIRC.


But yes, apparently you didn't get the memo. Anything that can be passed as an attack should be tried at least.

[NV1962]

77. Thanks...

...for noticing. I'm a bit reluctant to pursue this, because I think one quote (again, I'm assuming it's an accurate one) of a tortured statement is hardly an "indictment" of Dean's qualities / potential and, moreover, I believe it's a petty issue among supporters of fellow Democrat candidates.

Having said that, and just to pursue the semantics bit (meant in good fun!) I'll nibble.

Yes, I think it's quite obvious that the West Bank (and Gaza strip, but that's not in the quote) have an Arab majority. But that's not the case for Israel as a whole (at least, not according to this source) I'm much less sure about the opposition between "democratic" and "Jewish" you implicitly suggest, though. For two considerations:

• I don't consider keeping the West Bank (and Gaza) occupied, against the wish of the majority there, as consistent with my notions of a democracy.
  
• Israel, the state, has a clear Jewish foundation. In fact, that's what some orthodox Jews criticize, together with Zionism as a political endeavour: according to them, a "truly" Jewish homeland can only be the result of divine intervention, hance the state of Israel represents a blasphemous act. My point here is that the state of Israel is certainly "Jewish" by design. I don't think that its government's policy (i.e., occupation of the Westbank and the Gaza strip) makes it any less Jewish. Not being Jewish myself (less so, a religious scholar) and understanding that Howard Dean isn't Jewish either (e.g., as intimated here) I object to making judgement calls on the "Jewish" nature of a state being, according to that quote, dependant upon the occupation of the West Bank. I'll take a rabbi's word for that, instead.
  

Now, after this hairsplitting exercise, I agree that the gist of that quote is very likely intended to reflect what you stated much more clearly. So, again, we're looking at a quote of a tortured statement. Big deal...

I think supporters seriously parading such (alledged) "bad form" examples to "discredit" other candidates, when in fact they greatly complement each other, are much rather bad reflections on the candidate they purport to support.

It's petty.

Besides, Howard Dean would make a great VP under President Clark. ;)

[SayitAintSo]

26. Ahhhh ... another bash Clark and his supporters post ...

Yawn .....

[Scott Lee]

31. Incorrect. Please read the thread topic post.

I clearly target some of Clark's supporters, not Clark.

As I've often said, I actually like Clark the man. It's his supporters who are doing him the most damage, at least here on DU.

[jmaier]

39. That's funny

I actually like Howard Dean but many of his DU supporters almost make me transfer those negative feelings to their candidate. Note, I did say "almost".

Threads like this one, the silly "war criminal thread", etc. offer nothing substantive to the debate. They are just drive by shootings.

And YES, there are some similar threads about Dean and I really would prefer not to see those also and often post the same sort of comment.

[SayitAintSo]

45. OK ... another BASH Clark supporters thread .....

What ever ... What I notice is that your posts appear to be consistently anti Clark/Clark supporters. You can debate the fine details all you want ... doesn't change the way it comes across ... And it appears that I'm not the only one that sees it that way.

[Tom Rinaldo]

46. Some strong voices against bashing

To give them full credit, oppositon to all the bashing has been posted on this thread by non Clark backers also. I think it is time for those who are so inclined to speak out against unproductive bashing wherever it happens, and that includeds Dean bashing threads too. There is still plenty of room for legitiamte debate and disagreements.

[Scott Lee]

53. We get what we give ;)

HINT: There's a solution to all this in the title.

[Tom Rinaldo]

...and give what we get. It's called a vicious circle.

And I agree with you on all counts regarding it.

[dsc]

35. Even more idle curiousity

I can't fail to notice that you haven't criticized this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=28406&mesg_id=28406

Care to explain the differences between these threads?

[SayitAintSo]

56. Johnny one note ?

:)

[Scott Lee]

58. Well, there ya go dsc.

Another incisive example of a response from the Clark campaign. What do you say to something like that, eh?

[dsc]

60. Yeah I intend to sing that note until I get an answer

If this thread is so bad, then where oh where is the outrage over the one I sited?

It is a legitimate question and I intend to ask it until I get a legitimate answer.

[jonnyblitz]

73. oh please. thank goodness Clark supporters don't engage

in that sort of behavior. :eyes: Each side does it. We all know the "army" has its marching orders.

http://www.clarks-army.com/

[Hoppin_Mad]

36. Might Clark be a GOP mole ?

---

"And I'm very glad we've got the great team in office, men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice... people I know very well... our president George W. Bush. We need them there."

Wes Clark, May 11, 2001

[NV1962]

49. Note the date

...of when that was said.

Then, compare with what he said after: 9-11, the invasion of Afghanistan, and the war in Iraq.

C'mon, Clark isn't a "GOP mole" - but I won't object if you meant to say he's perfectly capable of luring support away from the GOP, and most notably the neocons and ultra-reactionaries currently in control... Heck, I'll even admit that Clark does the GOP a favor by giving respectable conservatives an opportunity to regain control of their party again, after their defeat in November 2004! ;-)

[TLM]

79. May 11 2001....

gosh isn;t that less than 6 months after GOre lost the election? I thought CLark said he voted for GOre... so how'd he suddenly flip flop and start fundraising for repukes?

ANd the fact this was said before 9-11 is even worse. After 9-11 everybody tried to say something nice about Bush... but before 9-11 Clark was giving the whole repuke team a lewinski.

[AntiCoup2K4]

66. I don't neccessarily think Clark is a GOP mole

...some of the folks who claim to represent him though.... well, let's just say it's rather odd that they all showed up and started rigging the polls here right around the same time we started getting the daily live simulcasts from the Eternally Ignorant Buffoon and his sponsors the Purdue Pharmaceutical company (makers of OxyContin)

Er, just a coincidence, of course ;)

[TLM]

78. I do not think he is working for the GOP...

Clark is just out for Clark and his own power and glory. If he think he can get it by saying he is a dem, he will. If he thinks he can get it by saying he's a repuke that loves Reagan, he will.


He is a scummy little liar with no integrity who will say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear.

[OKNancy]

40. So what?

Have you ever been to the Dean blog? They talk nasty about Kerry and Clark and everyone. The Clark blog is for Clark supporters. There are no rules there like at DU...at least about bashing Dean.

It's a fun place to bash all we want. It is not meant for Dean supporters. Also, that was a pretty good list: the flip flops.

[windansea]

thanks for the link!

exposing more Dean flubs is real smart!

[Kahuna]

48. Is there anything untrue on that blog? If there is..

I didn't see it. Ergo. What's the problem? I never see you complaining about the anti clark threads on DU which are many times more vicious than what is on that blog. It's our blog and we have a right to post whatever we want.

[Scott Lee]

61. Untrue? No. Slimey? you bet.

Unless you think it's a wise use of your time to build a juvenile hit list of quotes from Dean you can try and pull apart. To what end? Do you seriously think it changes a single mind here on DU?

Not on this planet.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scott Lee]

82. Slimey is slimey.

And it looks like many in the Clark camp haven't learned much yet.

Here's for hoping!

[shivaji]

50. Clark supporters can't change the following "FACTS"

Dean: Lifelong democrat, there are no video's of him praising Bush* policies.
Clark: Democrat less than a year, Rove has full access to video's of Clark praising Bush*, Rummy, Condi and the gang.

Dean: Won every election he ran in, SIX so far.
Clark: Never ran before.

Dean: Against outsourcing of good jobs.
Clark: "Let software jobs go to India, we can do something else".

Dean: ACTUALLY balanced state budgets.
Clark: Zero experience.

Dean: Instituted state wide health care. Most qualified to institute
a national universal health care system, being a full fledged medical doctor.
Clark: Zero experience.

Dean: Against all pre-emptive and preventive wars abroad.
Clark: Waffled, first as CNN analyst was pro-Iraq war, Now against.

Dean: Endorsed by highest ranked democrat so far, Al Gore. Also by
some of the largest unions.
Clark: Can't get a single 4-star general to endorse him after a lifetime in military.

[Scott Lee]

62. Incoming!!!

Nice job, shivaji. Of course, this will be perceived as visciousness.

[shivaji]

83. Thanks Scott Lee, especially since I type rather slow

LOL

[foo_bar]

94. is Al Gore highly ranked?

I guess he still has secret service protection.

[blm]

51. Dean supporters' strategy: Kerry is a "corrupt Washington insider"

and he is "Bushlite" and so are the other guys, too.

Dean and those of his supporters who push those lies deserve any blowback they have coming.

[AntiCoup2K4]

55. Not sure what Kerry has to do with this thread, but if you insist.....

... If being a Skull & Bones member with PNAC'ers on his campaign staff advising him to nominate James Baker to his potential cabinet isn't a sign of corruption, then I'd really hate to see one.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

91. Then let the truth set you straight about that....

Kerry never said he'd appoint Baker to his cabinet. He said in the interest of bipartisanship he'd "consider" sending Baker to peace talks along with other Mideast PEACE negotiators like Clinton and Carter.

Dean has PNACers on his advisory staff and has a war profiteering lobbyist as well, Toby Moffett. Wil Marshall is just ONE advisor to Kerry who doesn't HAVE to rely on the influence of others as much as Dean does.

Guess you don't approve of Gary Hart and Joe Wilson and Gen. William Perry? I'm sure Dean WISHES they were on his team. Too bad Hart thinks Dean has no grasp of foreign policy.

[Scott Lee]

59. But Kerry Is an Insider. That's no lie.

as much as I'm sure many of you wish it were.

[blm]

67. Nope. He never was. He never played the insiders' game

and in fact, exposed more government corruption by the insiders and their powerstructures - both Dem and GOP - than ANY lawmaker in modern history. That is why so many turned their backs on Kerry. He opened up their powerstructures to scrutiny.

What in the world did you ever study that would lead you to believe that Kerry was an insider?

[Scott Lee]

74. Excuse me? A long time Senator is not an Insider?

Thanks for showing us (unintentionally I'm sure) the problem we face with statist, Insider elitism destroying the Democratic Party.

[blm]

93. You aren't addressing HOW you came to that conclusion

when all those who have written indepth about Kerry's time in DC have all come away noting what an outsider he still is. Kerry had been pushing for public financing of campaigns and never fell sway to ANY interest group or corporate pac.

If he was HALF the insider that you and others claim, then the DNC and the Dem powerbrokers would have coalesced around Kerry a year ago.

Now, please share with us how YOU came to the conclusion that Kerry is an insider.

[Scott Lee]

98. You do NOT spend years in the Senate and remain an "outsider"

Anyone with half a bit of knowledge of what goes on inside the Beltway knows that.

Hint: We lived in Northern VA, dad was a top lobbyist for a powerful DC group (that shall remain nameless for my family's privacy) and he told me long ago that, it didn't matter how idealistic or "outsider" one came to DC - at some point they had to "learn the game" and they had to play it in order to get anything done. That meant becoming an Insider. Everybody did it because everybody had to do it in order to retain their effectiveness and re-electability.

For you to claim that John Kerry, with the years he spent in Congress, somehow remained outside that game and yet became one of the most influential Senators in the scheme is.....well....amusing, to say the least.

[TLM]

86. Sorry BLM Kerry is not relevant any more...

his campaign is over. No point in even bothering to discuss your rant since Kerry's campaign is over.


When you're in the senate and still polling behind AL Sharpton, pack it up and go home...


And you know why Kerry lost... because his whole campaign was nothing but baseless distorted attacks on Dean. Even his own supporters abandoned him, just like he abandoned them on the IWR.

Marry Christmas.

[TLM]

68. Some Clark supporters are more interested in beating Dean than Bush

That why we keep seeing them attack Dean using right wing sources and right wing talking points.



on edit... added some, don't get your knickers in a twist.

[Tom Rinaldo]

72. Excuse me

Haven't you learned the foolishness of making sweeping generalitiss yet? Care to point me to any attacks that I've made on Dean using right wing sources or talking points? And where do you find evidence that someone like me, who backs Clark, is more interested in bashing Dean than beating Bush? Might be true of some Clark supporters I suppose, but you just tarred all of us with your slanderous statement. Guilty until proven innocent? Why do you keep throwing gasoline on tensions between supporters of our different candidates? If you reread what you posted you have to recognize that you just lumped everyone nto one boat and then fired at it. I have been trying lately to chill out those types of tensions precisely because I do want the Democratic party to unite around it's ultimate candidate and defeat Bush. Would welcome more help in that regard.

By the way, don't you figure the right wing will use any talking points that they think might work, right or left, valid or bogus? They don't have any principles against attacking Democrats from the wrong ideological vantage point. They will use anything that they think might work. Sometimes it's something a fellow democrat might actually be uncomfortable with Dean or another Democrat about also. Just because a Right winger says something that doesn't mean that the subject is now forever off the table for reasonable debate. Now is the time to be talking about who is our best candidate afterall. We still live in a democracy.

[Gloria]

87. I don't see a problem with a competitor keeping a list of PUBLIC

statements by another candidate...

Gee, don't you think the GOP are doing it?? Maybe the crew over at CNN or MSNBC??

If you don't want a list of gaffes or unclear statements kept...then think about what's going to come out of your mouth or your spokepersons' mouths before opening said mouths....

Isn't that Politics 101???

[mikehiggins]

88. It seems to me, Tom,

that the poster you are referring to has lost all sense of decorum and common sense.

Calling Clark a "scummy little liar" seems over the top to me, even for DU.

[TLM]

90. Seems to me, Mike,

That Clark saying Reagan was a "truly great leader" that he loved and admired, then working as a lobbyist for defense contractors is over the top.

The man is a fraud. He's out for power and glory and that's it.

He'll say anything he thinks his audience wants to hear.

[Kahuna]

85. What right wing source? Care to back that up>

nt?

[TLM]

89. A thread was locked just the other day for using a fox news piece

to attack Dean.

I have seen clark supporters using drudge, fox, moonie times... granted to be fair most of the time they're just repeating talking points that have no links or sourcces cited, so they do not know that's what they are quoting. Although sometimes they do.

[robbedvoter]

70. Drat! I wanted to post this! Scooped again!

Hey, I posted most of the stuff there - so I must be the head of the "strategery team" Oh, well, I can't go under cover again. Me and Valery Plame.



Now, I'll go read the thread to see if anyone addresses the substance of that blog. It would be a pleasant surprise.

[robbedvoter]

76. So, it was a "dissent is treason thread"

How dare we collect stupid statements from an opponent ? What do we think we are? Running a primary race against Dean? I feel so ashamed! I mean Al Gore said we should not attack, but relax and let Dean attack us. But do I listen? Nooo! So, look what happened! My cover is blown! Why me, God, why me?????

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robbedvoter]

84. Did I now or did I ever make any converts?

Well, I do have lists of them, but I know better than post them on a conspiracy thread. They are hidden on one of our supersecret blogs. Why don't you spend more time at Clark's website - all our secrets are there!

[Scott Lee]

96. I suspect your "converted" lists are somewhat fantastical as well

But let's not overstate the obvious...

Let's talk again about how far Clark is behind Dean.

[robbedvoter]

100. Why don't you search. All the secret plans are there - all of them!

Including the ones of how to get Santa to bring us joy and you gnashing of the teeth. All there. I might have to change my name though, now that you exposed me ...I have to go, tell Boris and Natasha to switch accents

[Scott Lee]

102. That's why I lambasted their strategy. It's pretty poor agit-prop.

And, I must say, so is the "let's cover this with levity" follow up.

Chyaaaa!

[robbedvoter]

104. The old "levity routine" doesn't work on you, huh? Damn, you're good!

I mean james Bond won wars with that one...Can't put one past you, huh...
Oh, I could go back to spy school for this but,

[BootinUp]

92. This thread is just garbage

What a surprise

[Rainbows]

95. Provocative Post when ...

the 1000+ poster club comes out on both sides of the issue, and out numbers the newbies and most of time lurkers. Lot of old material brought back to light, a lot of new non bash believers insight.
Its been fun. Will it be more fun when we can beat a common drum, when debate is against a common foe, i.e. Bush/co.? I somehow doubt it.

[Moderator]

105. Locking.......

6. You may not start a new discussion thread in order to continue a current or recent flame war from another thread. The moderators have the authority to lock threads in order to contain flaming on a particular topic to only one thread at a time.



DU Moderator