they hate us, because we rob them

[Quequeg]

I've noticed that some people are under the impression that the typical American citizen
1) is aware and approves of the fact that the U.S. dominates third world countries
2) personally benefits from this domination

But I agree with Noam Chomsky that this isn't true.

Here's an interview with Noam Chomsky (NM) right after the 2004 elections.

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20041121.htm

MK: Okay if we accept that Empire or some sort of domination of a smaller power is wrong. Do you think that most of the American population agree with us? I have spoken to quite a few Americans who say "Maybe keeping pro-business elites in Latin America was immoral but would I be as affluent as an American citizen if we hadn't done it?"

NC: Who did you ask? Did you ask working people?

MK: No I suppose not.

NC: You asked Harvard professors.

MK: Well no.

NC: The equivalent then. The fact of the matter is you can easily find out what public attitudes are. They're very well studied in the US.
.......
Now if you ask about particular cases - keeping business elites in power in Latin America - that's not what working people are going to tell you is a good idea. I'm sure your not going to get that answer. What they are going to say is that it was right to do it because we were defending ourselves against communist attack. That's the mythology that's driven into peoples head. And, yeah, they will say we had to defend ourselves against the Chinese or the Russians.

MK: Weren't they told alongside that they wouldn't be as economically well off if they weren't keeping these business elites in place?

NC: They weren't told that. In fact, nobody ever says that because that would be self interest. You have to pretend that we don't do things for self-interest. We do them altruistically. So the standard line in British, American, French and other propaganda is that everything we do is altruistic. And that's not what people are told and that's not the kind of answer you are going to get. Maybe a few cynics will say it but almost everyone will give you the conventional - "we're altruistic, we're working for the good of others, they don't appreciate it, we don't understand why they hate us, we've done so much for them" and so on and so forth. Very few people are going to say "they hate us because we rob them". Almost nobody will say that. So I don't think you get the answers you say. I think you get the answers that are conventional in the propaganda system. And it's not just the Britain, the US, France and others. Its every system of domination. Just try someday reading Hitler's propaganda or the propaganda of the Japanese fascists. I mean it's just overcome with love for the people of the world, what kind of wonderful things we were going to do for them.

MK: Do you think Empire bring any benefits to the colonized? Historians like Niall Ferguson have talked about the economic benefits?

NC: To England yes. Actually even in the case of England it's a mixed story. There have been some attempts over the years to try to do a kind of cost benefit analysis of the British Empire - how much did England gain? how much did it lose. You can't really do a careful calculation - its too complicated. But the rough estimates are probably that it's basically in balance - that England gained approximately as much, took from the Empire as much as it cost to run the Empire. Well let's suppose it's true. It doesn't tell you very much. You have to ask what happened inside England. Who gained and who lost. Well the stockholder of the East India Company they became fabulously wealthy. How about sailors in the British navy? They didn't gain. So it was essentially a class war inside England with winners and losers. And the same is true for the American system of domination. American workers don't gain, but American multinationals gain enormously.

Congressional Scorecards on the Subject: Reduce Unnecessary FOREIGN WORKERS Visas (career) ...........
http://grades.betterimmigration.com/view_list.php3?&Category=5&Status=Career&Flag=4">U.S. House
http://grades.betterimmigration.com/view_list.php3?&Category=5&Status=Career&Flag=7">U.S. Senate

[Freedom_from_Chains]

1. American workers don't gain,

but American multinationals gain enormously.



And there you have it in a nutshell.

[neoblues]

3. Exactly...

And, since I'm not gaining... the system's broken! Ha...

Certainly the wealthy in America gains from and enjoys the spoils taken from other world nations/economies. With the top 30 thousand Americans (Top 1 Percent) literally having more wealth than the entire bottom 95 percent, we aren't enjoying the ill-gotten gains at all.

The Republican fix would be no fix at all. Everything is as it should be. The wealth is going to those individuals who are most deserving--by definition--they were smart enough to get their (un)fair share, it's theirs.

The Democratic fix is... well, as usual, the Democrats have a hard time agreeing. Some would insist that those receiving the ill-gotten gains must pay a higher tax rate--to sort of share with the rest of the citizens. Most, though, if asked in the right way would realize the true fix would involve stopping this leeching off of other nation's economies; but if asked how to accomplish it, well, gee, that might require a whole new government agency to investigate such crimes (in reality, it probably would require that--and new laws to punish those found guilty as well). Alas, they'd have a hard time making their case (as they generally have in the best of times, but considering the Corporate Media would be against any such proposals, they'd be lucky if they could reach anyone with their message--even if they had a majority in Congress).

In the end, the rich continue to get richer--and there's nothing at all the rest of us can do about it, at least not without developing a strong organization among ourselves and forcing our leaders to change things--and they aren't going to want to and besides, they will have the support of The Corporations that have the best advisors money can buy about how to manipulate the public mind...

[Quequeg]

4. yep, we're screwed and there seems to be little we can do

I like this video with George Carlin who basically says the same thing.

I like it when he talks about how our educational system will never, never, never be fixed, because the corporate powers want to keep us ignorant and compliant - just smart enough to work, but dumb enough to bury ourselves in debt and stuff we don't need, while acquiescing to lower wages and benefits.

"Who Controls America"
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=935607276

Well, I guess I have some hope that things will get better. After all, a whole audience of people seem to be agreeing with George Carlin.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

5. When it comes to educating one self beyond the fundamentals,

and I'm also not talking about just vocational training in spite of what the colleges may say that is a lot of what they provide, you're pretty much on your own. That's that downsize, the upside is that every major population area has a library.

[Union Thug]

2. Chomsky is spot on. n/t