Whew. Edwards seems a little on the cocky side tonight on Leno

[mtnsnake]

When Leno asked him if he would have beaten Bush had he been the one to run for President last time, he said in a real cocky manner, "Oh yeah."

He also said that running as Vice President was not fun for him, and even went as far as hinting that he and Kerry weren't always on the same page. When asked about it, he made reference with Leno that mistakes were a problem.

Edwards also implied that he learned more after the election than during the campaign itself.

He sure wasn't too positive about his experience in 2004. I didn't watch the rest of his appearance, but I wasn't as impressed with him as I thought I'd be.

[PretzelWarrior]

1. probably because you don't recognize a winning candidate

that guy has it all. lack of a record (never underestimate that), human interest story, telegenic looks, a folksy charm, southern pedigree...........

he has a MUCH MUCH better chance in a general election than either Hillary or Obama and I wouldn't mind seeing that guy on the ballot

[mtnsnake]

2. Just reporting, friend. I don't have any beef w/Edwards but he didn't impress me

tonight. I don't think Kerry will be impressed with him either.

[aquart]

30. Some people will need a candidate without a sense of humor.

Myself, I'm glad that Edwards has one.

I've been quite on the fence but I'm liking him more and more.

My position, however, remains one of sheer gratitude that Democrats have to choose from such a wide selection of intelligent, caring, experienced, competent public servants.

[mtnsnake]

37. Sharpton cracks me up. Edwards? Sometimes, but not the part I saw tonight

Maybe he was funny during the part I missed. :)

[Andromeda]

200. He must have impressed Kerry in the last election

or he wouldn't have chosen him as his running mate.

Maybe you just need to see more of Edwards. You just might change your mind. :)

[madmunchie]

100. The guy also voted giving Bush the authority to invade Iraq....

AND then wouldn't admit that his vote was wrong UNTIL it was politically correct to do so....

Charisma, yes, Character, no

Lack of record, yes, Lack of experience YES

Human interest story????, Yes, he does have ONE human interest story.... I know it by heart and ad nauseum

Telegenic looks, yes, that will makes for a great qualification for POTUS

Folksy charm???, you mean like Bush - - - don't have to say anymore

Southern Pedigree, you mean like a dog????? Wow, I'm impressed.

He may have a better chance than Obamma and/or Hillary, but as far as I know, they aren't the only one that may be in the race....THANK THE LORD

We have much better to offer.

[w4rma]

202. So did Kerry. And Kerry is still defending that vote. Edwards said he was wrong. (nt)

[Toots]

160. Winning Candidate??

Let's count all his wins okay? One and one only term as Senator, a bad beating in Democratic Primary for President. A terrible showing against Cheney in Debate. How exactly do you get winning candidate?

[solara]

3. Edwards might have been referring to Kerry's quick about face and

concession. I heard that Edwards wanted to stick it out and fight for the votes in Ohio and was upset when Kerry called it off. Maybe that is what the "Oh yeah" meant.


:shrug: Just sayin'

[babylonsister]

4. Because you long for KERRY and a man who makes sense!

:evilgrin: I kid to you, but really believe it!

[mtnsnake]

18. haha, now THAT is good!

:evilgrin:

[Superman Returns]

5. anybody notice

when he said at the end of the day the commander in chief is responsible for the military, and some started clapping?

[ChiciB1]

12. I Think It Was About 3 People! n/t

[wisteria]

29. So? n/t

[wisteria]

6. If Edwards was so good in 04 why didn't he win the primary?

That said, Edwards can say anything he wants to. When Kerry gets out there he will set the record straight. Edward's has a slective memory.

[Superman Returns]

13. Kerry is not running

[politicasista]

16. Tearing down other Democrats while promoting your candidate

is not going to help Edwards. I am for welcoming anyone that wants to run and has something to offer to the debate. I would rather wait until the primaries, then make predictions. JMHO.

It's not about 2008. That wasn't the point.

[wisteria]

27. Oh, and you have information to back up your suggestion.

I think he is running.

[zann725]

151. That's not the murmuring I've heard. BUT...

Only time'll tell.

[PeaceProgProsp]

74. Nobody started lower and finished higher. Edwards was most improved.

[madmunchie]

173. WHAT!!!!!!!!!

How did he finish on the high end?????? The "others" during the primary "dropped" out because the powers above us "decided" that Edwards was the go to guy.

I don't understand what people see in a man that campaigns for a job then doesn't even bother completeing it (giving the voters what they voted for) and he is off trying to get the #1 job in the country.... A man that voted on the wrong side of his most important vote of his career.

He has a bigger than life ego, is calculating, arrogant and definetly not qualified to be POTUS.

It is amazing to me that people require so little in the way of substantial qualifications to be POTUS.

He has little to no experience in Government outside the courtroom. Jeez, there is so much more to the job as POTUS than looks, charm, intellect, southern roots and a good story (that so many of us are sick of).

Why do people want to lower the bar to accomodate charisma? Of all of the candidates and possible candidates so far, Edwards has the least experience in Government.

[Zookeeper]

175. But, what if you want the Democrats to win?

Do you think Bush was better equipped to be Prez. than Edwards? I would have happily taken ANY of the potential Democratic candidates before Bush.

Kerry has many good qualities, but charisma isn't one of them. And charisma and charm were needed to beat a "popular" Prez. that people supposedly chose because they wanted to drink a beer with him. IMHO, Kerry won the election, but not by a margin large enough to offset the Rethugs voting machine fraud.

On edit: I thought the media ignored Edwards as long as they could and wrote him off as a "pretty boy." I sent many letters and e-mails to the news channels and talking heads trying to get them to give Edwards a chance.

[madmunchie]

176. There are better candidates out there, Edwards is not the best

that we have to offer. Maybe the people of this country will finally look beyond - "charisma" maybe the candidate who comes across as knowledgeable and "less packaged" might actually be more attractive to the voters this time around.

I would love to see Kucinich, Clark, Gore, Feingold and possibly Obamma as our strong candidates. Obamma has more experience in Government than Edwards, Obamma was in State Government before he became a Senator. Those are the people that we should be focused on and we should be less focused on an overly ambitious candidate with no real experience that qualifies him for the WH. Like I said before, on the most important vote of his life, he was on the wrong side AND it took him way too long to realize it and then admit it. Not too bright in my book. I even knew that giving Bush the authorization was a mistake. All of the above mentioned candidates on my list were smart enough to know that Iraq was wrong. BIG BIG plus in my book - right decision on Iraq BEFORE it was popular.

[Zookeeper]

178. I haven't decided who I will support for 2008.

I thought Edwards had the best chance of winning in 2004, against a "popular" president. He wasn't the most experienced candidate, but it certainly didn't seem to matter in W.'s case. And the most important thing was to get Bush out of office.

This time around....he has some real competition. Obama has as much charisma, and projects more substance and, although it could be argued that he has more experience than Edwards, I would say, "just barely" and it won't stand out as being significantly more. I love Feingold, but I don't think he has a chance of winning, as I think anti-semitism is more acceptable, at least where I live, than racism. Kucinich has his politics in the right place, but most people, unfortunately, don't view him as "presidential."

I think Gore would make an excellent president. But, I sense that people want someone new. Obama could win just on that point, as he inspires a sense of a new chapter in American politics.

Honesty, Madmunchie...you've drawn me into the 2008 discussion for the first time. I'm just watching and waiting. But, my bottom line is that any of the potential Democratic candidates is better than a Rethug in 2008.

[madmunchie]

192. Wow, what a refreshing conversation that we are having.

Believe me, I don't know who will run either. BUT I do know who I won't vote for and that is Edwards. Anything can happen in the next year or so, but I started as an Independent and became a Democrat because of the horrible way that Clinton was treated AND the fact that I HATE HATE all three branches of Government being run by the Repubs. So, now the Repubs don't own the show anymore, it is time for the Dems to strut their stuff and to see what they are made of. This country is going down the wrong path and we need somebody who is wise, knows what (s)he is doing and has character. All we could do is watch
and see what unfolds in Washington, but PLEASE put Edwards way down at the bottom of your list and really focus on what we need. And that is somebody who really knows what they are doing _ no on the job training for 08', (look what that gave us with Bush)and that has character and wisdom.

As far as Obama not having much more experience than Edwards

"During his seven years in the Illinois state Senate, Obama worked with both Democrats and Republicans to help working families get ahead by creating programs like the state Earned Income Tax Credit, which in three years provided over $100 million in tax cuts to families across the state. Obama also pushed through an expansion of early childhood education, and after a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Senator Obama enlisted the support of law enforcement officials to draft legislation requiring the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases."

http://obama.senate.gov/about/

I'd say that qualifies for more than "just barely", wouldn't you?

If Bush continues with this madness and engages Iran and Syria, I'd say Gore and Clark are the most experienced people to get us out of the hell that Bush is creating for us.

Thank you for the conversation that we are engaged in. Even though we disagree,(not by much though) we are communicating! I wish more conversations went like this!

[Zookeeper]

199. Well, I hope we can continue conversing as the months...

go by.

I'm just cynical enough not to get too passionate about anyone in particular. Since I have a child with Type 1 Diabetes, who could benefit from stem cell research, and two sons who will reach draftable age sooner than I would like, my real passion is to get the damned fundie/neo-cons out of office. At this point, the worst Democrat in the running would be better than the best Rethug (with the possible exception of Lieberman). I want the most capable candidate, but, I'll settle for the one who can win.

:hi:

[madmunchie]

206. How about Lieberman?

I know that he now is an Independent - BUT, get my point? We have to have eyes in the back of our heads on all of these politicians.

[Zookeeper]

174. If the primary had been a month or two later....

I think he would have. It just seems like the media is in such a hurry to make the decision for us, and they sway the results by saying, "Here. This is going to be the candidate. It's over."

I liked Edwards from the start, before he even remotely seemed to have a chance. His momentum increased rapidly the last few weeks.

Will I support him this time? I don't know, it depends on his competition. I want to see us win. Edwards was the Democratic candidate most likely to win the presidency in 2004, but he will have substantial competition in 2008.

[caligirl]

7. I didn't see this show, but have seen edwards answer these same questions

on other interviews without any cockyness. He simply responded truthfully and tastefully. I was impressed and am thinking I would work to get him elected. Gore would be the only reason I would change that.

[ChiciB1]

10. Gore Would Be My ONLY Obstruction Too! Gore Won....

he deserves it, he's experienced and I DO respect him. I don't think Edwards wants to be 2nd ever AGAIN, but I can't abandon Gore. It will be extremely hard to abandon Edwards on the other hand at this stage in the game.

But I KNOW what you mean!

[ChiciB1]

8. Aw, To Coin A Phrase... I Think YOU Might Be Out In "Left Field"

there mtnsnake. Not trying to be mean, but what did you expect him to say.... Naw, I could NEVER have beaten him.

Personally, he was extremely calm, cool and collected. I was noticing how Leno was doing that hand waving, and animated action, and Johnny Boy was just sitting back and taking it easy. I really like watching him these days, and I can respect him for just getting out and working toward helping our fellow Americans, right after the election. And Elizabeth is a real assets. I loved the Emma Claire moment, it was adorable!

Agenda or not, whether it was a strategic move even way back then, I see his maturity has grown and I'm on board. I don't think I've watched Leno in maybe 10 years, but IF I know John Edwards is going to appear somewhere, I want to watch him and see how he handles himself.

So far, he's not letting me down. I will say that I saw Barack Obama talking before him on another channel and he's impressive too. I'm coming to the conclusion, that Edwards/Obama just might be a super ticket! Regardless of what others say about experience, all one has to do is....

THI-M-K! lOOKEE, lOOKEE WHAT experience The Idiot this man George had BEFORE he made himself president. And it IRKS me to NO end when I hear MSM say "he got elected!" No, he DID NOT get elected! He did what he always does... he cheated, lied and screwed America!

Go, Johnny, Go! Now... I had to take some meds and I've gotta hit the sack because I have some medical tests to take in the morning!

[mtnsnake]

15. Maybe you thought he was "cool, calm, & collected", but I didn't.

In the part I saw, I thought he was a little on the tense side. Plus he turned me off the way he was almost making like he had nothing to do with the loss in 2004.

[ChiciB1]

20. So... There's Room For Both Of Our Opinions Here....

I've seen comments you've made about him before, and I'm sure you've seen some that I've made.

I do like him a lot, but I like Gore & Obama too. Mainly because I actually think they make some sense. Edwards has always been targeted with too much ego, but some of it could be that he's a very handsome man, and many think that's what drives him in many ways. Many think it's one of the only reasons he's gotten so far, but who knows. I have seen him in person and he DOES have a certain affect on many people, mostly of the femal persuasion. I'm a female, but that's not my schtick!

Who know what will happen in 6 months? Edwards could screw up, or any of them could screw up. I just want to see truth and reality, and my opinion certainly isn't going to be the only one.

[mtnsnake]

28. Most definitely. I'm not sure, though, what comments you're referring to

For the most part I haven't really commented much about Edwards one way or the other. Probably the worst thing I've ever said about him was that I wasn't quite as impressed with him in the general election as I was in the primaries. I've never been negative towards him until tonight, and it's really no biggy, other than I think he could've shown a little more class towards his former running mate.

[ChiciB1]

33. It Wasn't Severe... But It Was A Couple Of Weeks Ago!

And no, you weren't very abrasive, but I felt you had reservartions, which is okay. We didn't have words about it. I'm just one of his supporters and kind of watch the stuff on him.

I know several here who are big supporters just by watching. I will say I have seen the support getting bigger though.

[Divine Discontent]

85. I like him a bunch, buttttttt

his cockiness can get him in trouble... I hope he checks himself or someone like Liz tells him... in the debate with Cheney he was outmatched, that didn't help Kerry at all. He made embarrassing blunders about not mentioning Kerry 3 times and looked incredibly silly, so much so, my friend called me and said he looked like a little child against his grandpa.

he is very pro worker, and little guy, and that will carry him. I think he should've said, "OH YEAH" and followed it up with, "but I clearly didn't win the primary so I feel fortunate to have been chosen for the VP role"... some bad blood there, but there always is in a losing situation most of the time.

I'm pulling for Clark and Edwards... big time.

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[Auntie Bush]

197. "I'm pulling for Clark and Edwards... big time." I think there is some

bad blood between those two also. However, if not...they'd make a winning team...with Clark on the top of the ticket of course. Then Edwards/Obama in 2016 and Obama/ ? in 2024 till 2032. We could have the presidency for the next 24 years. I'll probably be dead by then. In fact, I dead already and I'm going to bed. See ya!

[benny05]

154. In truth, he didn't

When Kerry's campaign managers wrote off the South, pulled all ads out of NC, and made JRE campaign in Wisconsin and Ohio...and mainly in rural places, in which Kerry's campaign did pick up votes, Edwards is not being cocky as much as telling bits of the truth.

I don't blame Kerry for what happened in 2004, but I do blame his campaign staff for dismissing Edwards' suggestions to help the campaign.

[Superman Returns]

21. edwards and obama

thats mt hardest decision. I love them both.

[LittleClarkie]

9. He got a cookie earlier from me. But he'd better watch it

Being a jerk doesn't fly with me. And he was very complimentary right after the election. I'd hate to think he was pulling the wool over my eyes then, when I was so touched by his goodbye speech to the Senate.

No one pushed him into being VP. And if he would have won as Prez, perhaps he could have proven it by winning his own state as the VP candidate.

[benny05]

155. The Dems wanted JRE to be on the Ticket

And not something JRE overlooks.

[madfloridian]

11. We thought he was good tonight on Leno.

We have an open mind in 08, but I think fair is fair.

Both of our Republican sons will vote for him, and one would have in 04. They like Edwards over all of them.

[mtnsnake]

17. I've liked Edwards, but I just thought he was borderline disloyal to Kerry tonight

However, I didn't watch his entire appearance, so maybe the second half of it was better.

[madfloridian]

23. Look at it this way...

I take up for Kerry here because I think the party and the media lately have given him a raw deal. I hate to see people treated unfairly.

Hubby and I don't know who we prefer in 08...we just don't. But Edwards was saying it was hard to be 2nd fiddle, and I imagine it would be.

[ChiciB1]

25. I Think We Just Said The Same Thing At The Same Time... n/t

[zann725]

153. I felt he was definitely borderline 'disloyal' to JK...even during campaign.

Quite obvious, I thought. And Edwards is NOT V.P. personality...needs to be center stage.

Also, Edwards and Kerry clearly were not each other's first choice. Not saying it hasn't worked for other Prez/VP pairings in past...

[benny05]

156. I don't think he was disloyal at all to Kerry

He was speaking his piece as what it meant to be a VP candidate. How many VP candidates are that candid about what the campaign means..and should be, which is to tout the Presidential candidate's view?

[Clark2008]

76. Why do Republicans like inexperience?

Bush? Edwards?

Are they scared of experience or something?

[countmyvote4real]

14. Personal questions: Good. Honest answers: Priceless.

I like him more and more.

For those that follow my recent posts on other threads, I don't hate him even as I don't love him. Still, I'm liking him and his policies more and more. He does not seem very DLC. That's a good enough start for me. Plus, he regretted his vote on the Iraq invasion years before the GOP/DLC approved candidate finally sought it was safe to denounce tonight.

Spellcheck was performed to the Hitlarist's requirements.

[Clarkie1]

19. I don't think Edwards would have done as well against Bush as Kerry.

Too many questions about his lack of leadership experience and readiness to be Commander in Chief in time of war and crises.

On a more "public relations" note, he certainly should have deferred to the judgement of the American people when he was asked that question. It shows a character flaw he needs to grow out of. I would go so far as to say it's immature, and certainly not presidential.

And finally, on a political note, I don't think Edwards start a year before the Iowa caucus is going to help him in the long run. He looks like he wants it too badly. He's trying too hard, if that is possible.

[mtnsnake]

22. I don't know either, but he made it known to Leno that he would have.

I thought Edwards was bush league in doing so.

[ChiciB1]

24. As I Said Before... Should He Have Said "No I Don't Think I Could

have won? He did say "we all make mistakes" and I think he's been truthful about the fact that he wasn't "thrilled" to be running as a VP! Not many politicians have been in the past either.

An honest answer.

[Clarkie1]

32. Uh....no.

He should have said he didn't know...or even better, the question wasn't an important or relevant one, and was looking forward.

[silverlib]

34. IMO, the appropriate answer would be...

"no one will ever know."

[ChiciB1]

38. BINGO... But I Don't Really Think It Was All That Bad...

We ALL make mistakes!

[blm]

63. the ACCURATE answer is: Corpmedia and voting machines wouldn't LET any Dem beat Bush.

.

[Cha]

145. That's right and it's their

fault that the US is on a fast track to oblivion with the stunted monkey at the helm.

[benny05]

158. Edwards is his own person now

Not to knock Kerry, but his campaign staff and Terry McAufull who is spreading "kiss and tell" through his book to show the tension between K/E and to make illustrate his Clintonista leanings, Edwards has the right to say, "yes we made mistakes, but my voice as VP was not heard as loudly in the campaign. However, I was new, and I did was supposed to be the right things to do. "

[benny05]

157. And is Clark ready to announce before Feb 1

Dem Winter Conference in DC, 2/1-3, with emphasis on Presidential 2008 candidates. Not like before.

[ruggerson]

26. It's an entertainment show

He was responding in a lighthearted fashion. With a smile on his face.

When you make an appearance on a late night comedy show, you should be charming and funny. He was both.

[mtnsnake]

31. No problem. I guess I saw it in a different light.

He turned me off. And I like the guy.

Yeah, it's an entertainment show, but the guy is one of the first major Dems to announce his candidacy. It might be just an entertainment show but he's officially under the microscope now.

[ruggerson]

36. I like how he is relaxed and forthcoming

Obama has many of the same characteristics. And is witty to boot.

Contrast it to Kerry, who unfortunately comes across as a humorless lunkhead on these kinds of shows.

I've said this before, but I knew Kerry was dead meat in '04 when he went on Jon Stewart.

Stewart asked him, "So, everyone wants to know, do you make a nickel everytime someone opens up a bottle of ketchup?"

Kerry thought deeply for a second and then uttered, sonorously, "Would that it were, Jon, would that it were."

[Clarkie1]

41. LOL. That pretty much sums Kerry's problem connecting with average Americans.

It's not that he doesn't mean well, but that's just so typically Kerry...and unfortunately there's a price to be paid in votes for that part of his personality.

Nothing personal, but that's politics.

[wisteria]

67. Well now, have you ever met the man or are you using the media character

assignation for form your opinion. I have met the man personally, I was at many of his appearances in 04 and just this past election cycle and I found him to be engaging and friendly. Just wait for his new book rounds to begin soon.

[karynnj]

82. I would say the same

In northern NJ, we first saw Kerry in 2005 when he helped Corzine in his run for governor. Each of the local papers noted how well he interacted with people, how engaging he was and then mentioned that he was much better than in 2004. But, I saw the CSPAN videos in 2004 - it was the same man.

I went to Boston for a speech and saw him interact with people there - he was always extremely respectful and responsive to the people who interacted with him. One of the more telling was that there was a group of 4 Ethiopean immigrants who told a Kerry aide that they lived in Boston and wanted to speak to him for a minute. The aide said that Kerry would come out the door near him soon. When he did they spoke to Kerry for a while. I couldn't hear the conversation, but Kerry's demeanor was extremely courteous and they left with smiles and waves. As the MA person next to me pointed out this was his job. He represents them whether they were citizens or not.

Whether Kerry runs again or gets the nomination again or not, just as Bush is not the friendly Godly man the media said he was, both Kerrys are far nicer, friendlier, kinder people than the media chose to let us see.

[Clarkie1]

126. I'm using what I see of him on television, which is what most Americans see.

It's not a media characterization of him, it's how he comes across.

The the vast majority of voters, how he comes across in person is completely irrelevant, however he comes across in person.

[smalll]

198. "media character 'assignation'"???

Media character assassination, I think you mean -
(assignation = tryst)


"Oh John!" "I wanna meet your press every Sunday morning forever!" "Take me now!"

[Clarkie1]

35. I doubt Kerry thought it was lighthearted and funny.

More like a stab in the back, sounds like to me.

[ruggerson]

39. And we care what Kerry thinks about this because..... ?

[Clarkie1]

42. I was thinking more of the reflection it cast on Edward's character. nt

[mtnsnake]

43. Edwards isn't someone on a posting board. He was Kerry's running mate

and IMO he showed a lack of loyalty tonight to his former running mate.

[mtnsnake]

40. Exactly what I'm talking about

and AFAIC, you're right, it was a stab in the back.

[wisteria]

68. Kerry realizes this is only politics and Edward's comments may well come back to bit him in the a**

People will begin to remember why he wasn't on the top of the ticket in 04.

[wisteria]

69. You see, it is that sm ile that bugs me, it just seems phony. n/t

[fujiyama]

44. I was a bit surprised myself

His appearance was somewhat disappointing, in that sense. He came across great though and I still might support him. Still, I feel sort of sorry for Kerry. He's got a raw deal and it's obvious Edwards was distancing himself from him. After all, he didn't offer one word of praise or appreciation for the campaign...and it didn't sound like he had a positive experience.

Also, I wish he would have made it clear that Kennedy's plan wouldn't leave the troops out on the lurch. Leno was trying to bait him asking about Kennedy's plan, cutting funds for the troops. Edwards should have made it clearer that Democrats want to cut funding for the war - NOT the troops, as long as they are there.

[fuzzyball]

45. Did Edwards win his home state for the Kerry/Edwards ticket?

[Superman Returns]

48. did Gore win his? No

and he was on top of the ticket.

[ultraist]

99. Kerry lost NC

People vote for President. Kerry lost NC. Kerry said early on that he didn't need a southern state to win and he wrote our state off early on.

Edwards could swing his homestate if he were at the top of the ticket and we are in play for 08. Edwards is very well liked here, in fact recently, he polled as the favorite Dem candidate, by a long shot, against Hillary and Obama.

[TheDonkey]

46. His bitterness won't appeal to voters

no one wants to hear about a cry baby. Did he at least give evidence how he could have done better? Don't think so. NEXT

[Catchawave]

91. cocky = bitterness ?

:rofl:

[Leilani]

47. He's always been too ambitious & wanted too much too soon

From the time he got to the Senate, he wanted to be Prez.

That's OK, but he needed time to learn about the world, foreign affairs, etc.

Kerry gave Edwards the chance of a lifetime, & yet Edwards does not seem to have any sense of loyalty. And this isn't the first time there has been snarkiness against the Kerrys.

IMO, Kerry should be the one who is upset. What did Edwards do for Kerry? Nada, zilch, zero.

When Kerry was under attack, he needed a fighter to defend him. Edwards did not do it, no doubt, he didn't want to hurt his own image.

Contrary to some, I don't think Edwards would have done better than Kerry. Being the front man is a lot tougher than being the smiling understudy.

[Skwmom]

49. He has been snarky to Kerry in interviews (the Daily Show

comes to mind) but then he backtracks because he's reminded that one of his selling points is that he is Mister Positive "Johnny Sunshine," who only runs a positive political campaign (of course he leaves all the nasty, dirty part of politics to surrogates and only hands out dirty, campaign smears in leaflets - he couldn't run a public campaign ad where he'd have to say "I'm John Edwards and I approve this message." I remember Edwards being nailed for his attempted "under the radar" negative campaigning in 04. Leno was congratulating Edwards for being such a positive campaigner in 04 - I had to laugh.

[Leilani]

53. He certainly did some nasty things in 2004

of course, under the radar & using surrogates.

That's when I realized he is not the man he pretends to be.

And yet somehow he avoids the criticism that other candidates put up with everyday.

[venable]

57. What negative campaigning?

please give an example. I'm not sure there are any.

[Skwmom]

62. There are. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the

controversy over the negative leaflets passed out by Mr. Positive Johnny Sunshine during the 04 election.

[venable]

66. please do a little better than that

please give an example, if you have one.

[FrenchieCat]

103. Here's one

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0347,mondo5,48665,6.html

[Leilani]

149. You were not here during the primaries for 2004

& it's obvious there's a lot that you don't know.

Please read the article that Frenchie posted.

[mtnsnake]

55. He was a little on the unappreciative side, too, last night

Kerry gave Edwards the chance of a lifetime, & yet Edwards does not seem to have any sense of loyalty

I agree. Like I said earlier in the thread, I thought he was borderline disloyal.

How soon he forgets.

[venable]

56. STOP THAT NONSENSE: Edwards Pleaded to Help Defend Kerry

when the swiftboating began, Edwards said "let me go get them"...Mary Beth Cahill and Kerry said 'No - this will pass, let's not address it"

Edwards argued passionately for a month that he be allowed to go after the Swiftboaters. They kept reisisting, all though August, by which time the dye was cast - Kerry had lost his lead.

Then they started the "throwing the medals away" attacks on Kerry. Edwards wanted to address it. Kerry and Cahill said no.

A couple of weeks later, after endless 'thrown medals' attacks, Imus asked Edwards about it: Edwards said: " Bush didn't serve. Cheney didn't serve. All those who are attacking him didn't serve, and they have the GALL to attack John Kerry for what he did with his medals. Shame on them"

The attacks stopped. Edwards, in 20 seconds, stopped them.

So please don't tell me Edwards did not try to help Kerry. He desperately wanted to.

I like Kerry, but he has very odd political impulses.

One impulse was to disappear Edwards during the campaign.

[wisteria]

70. I seem to recall a different senereo, where does your info come from?

Do you realize how stupid it would of looked if Edward's was out defending Kerry's war record? I am sorry, I have serious doubts about your story being even remotely true.

Oh, and by the way. The attacks were addressed almost immediately by the Kerry people and others like Max Cleland. The media was out for character assination and it continued to play the footage of the SBV even as the charges were being addressed as lies.
I think Edwards is trying to rewrite history here.

[sandnsea]

73. bwahahaha

Oh my god, that is the most ridiculous story I have heard on the swiftboaters yet. The attacks STILL haven't stopped. My god. Edwards was supposed to get the suburban and rural vote and he FAILED MISERABLY. Gephardt would have done a better job with rural voters, and I supported Edwards for VP candidate in 2004. EDWARDS was a campaign mistake.

[venable]

78. call it ridiculous if you want, if you don't mind being wrong

Edwards wanted to go on the offensive. Cahill said no, don't dignify it. Repeatedly. Sure, Cleland went after them, as did others. But what did you hear from the campaign itself. Nada. In spite of Edwards constantly saying he would go on the attack. Instead he was sent to state fairs in the midwest.

Imus reaction after Edwards blasted them about the 'thrown medals' issue: "Wow. You just ended that in 30 seconds. Nothing more to be said. Why hasn't Kerry said this? "

Go back and check out the Kerry reaction throughout the month of August.

don't believe it. fine. it's exactly the way it happened. history don't lie.

[sandnsea]

83. Imus?? oh that's too funny

First of all, the August issue wasn't about the medals.

Here was the response from the campaign. Note, Edwards on Imus isn't on the list.

This doesn't include the numerous statements from Kerry's crew that came out all month, press conferences by numerous retired generals, Cleland at Bush's ranch, that was conveniently ignored by the media.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x2555

[venable]

90. you're missing my point, and rewriting history

if you think your list tells a true and accurate history to say that Kerry battled the Swift Boaters, 'turned his boat into the attack', then you don't recall the massive bleeding the attacks did to the polls numbers, and the constant calls from activists for the campaign to really come out swinging.

and fine, dismiss Imus (god knows I will never defend him), but don't act like the exchange I noted didn't take place.

what, anyway, is the point of this argument? what is your point?

it was said that Edwards did no work for Kerry. that was, first of all, Kerry's choice, and secondly, it was in spite of Edwards making himself available.

anyone with eyes to see recognizes that Kerry buried Edwards. I don't blame Kerry, but I do blame Cahill.

again, what is your point?

[sandnsea]

97. You concocted your own history

You claimed Edwards ended the swiftboat attack and then when challenged to prove it, you quoted Don Imus.

When told that Edwards was chosen specifically to win the rural vote, you excuse his failure by saying he was buried at fairgrounds.

Kerry's poll numbers were actually fine in August. I'll never understand why the Clinton Democrats started the rumor that they weren't. Or why their advice was to shut up about Vietnam. Or why they thought the economic issues would win the day. Those of us who supported Kerry from the beginning did so because we knew this was going to be an election about terrorism. Too bad the Clinton Democrats fucked it up, then refused to accept responsibility for their own fuck-up. And it's too bad Edwards has chosen to join with them in their distortion and Kerry bashing. Neither John or Teresa has ever said a bad word about John and Elizabeth, showing who really has the class and moral values.

[venable]

105. hold on, there, that's not what I said

first of all, do not add Edwards to the Clintonian smear machine. he is not part of that, never has been: he is a victim of it, like so many others, including Kerry.


second: I DID NOT SAY EDWARDS ENDED THE SWIFTBOAT ATTACKS. read my post. I said that he wanted to attack, and was told not to, by Cahill, principally, but with Kerry's acquiescence. someone (you, or someone else) posted that it's absurd for Edwards to think that he could stop the attacks, that he had no such ability. so, to counter that I quoted Imus who admired his 30 second condemnation of those who said Kerry was a traitor by throwing his medals away. I am attempting to show that Edwards could, with his passion and incisive oratory, devastate those liars in short order.


third: I did not argue against the statement that Edwards was recruited to win the rural vote. of course he was. and to bring youth to the table. my point about him being buried at state fairs was really emblematic of Kerry (and Thereza) wanting the Edwards out of the main limelight. This is not unusual...it was Kerry's campaign, so he SHOULD be the most present, by far. And so it was. But people are very happy to blame Edwards for the loss, ie he didn't carry NC. to that I say, he didn't get sent to any southern states in any meaningful way, and the difficulty of selling a New Englander to that crowd, especially a New Englander who had been rovized and demonized so thoroughly and effectively, which brings us back to my argument that Edwards was not allowed to batter the swift boaters.

[sandnsea]

123. Let's recap

Edwards is part of the Clinton machine now, whether he realizes it or not. The Clinton storyline is Kerry was an awful candidate, and Edwards is assisting because he thinks it benefits him. That or he is afraid of the Clintons turning on him too, which is just as bad.

You quoted Imus as saying Edwards ended the attack in 30 seconds and that if Edwards had been allowed to do that, he could have stopped all the attacks. Well he had that 30 seconds on Imus, which could have been play repeatedly if it were so effective. That's a media choice. It wasn't. It wouldn't have mattered how many times Edwards gave his 30 second ditty if the media wasn't going to report it. He did not and could not stop those attacks. It is further ridiculous to say Cahill told him not to respond when I gave you a link and several instances of the campaign responding. It's a LIE that the campaign didn't respond. Our lovely Dem naysayers, er supporters, preferred to cackle at the campaign and repeat the swiftboat lies, instead of demanding the media give the rebuttals equal time. I spent more time trying to get Democrats to focus on the correct information than Republicans. Further, Edwards is Mr. Sunny Optimist never-say-anything-bad, so it's beyond my comprehension that HE is the one who wanted to go on the attack.

Your final point makes no sense either. You admit Edwards was supposed to win the rural vote and then turn around and smear the Kerry's by insisting it was their egos that wanted Edwards buried at state fairs. It doesn't even make any sense. Also, Kerry won the youth vote in the primary, he didn't need Edwards for that.

I don't blame Edwards for Kerry's loss. But I won't stand by and let the Edwards distort reality because Kerry takes responsibility for himself and won't attack the Edwards for their failings. It's not realistic to believe Edwards made no mistakes, but he won't admit any of them. That's what people object to, his running around and smearing Kerry when he didn't even win his own state. Hypocrisy. We don't need any more of it.

[venable]

134. that's your recap. Here's mine. They differ.

Edwards is simply not part of the Clinton machine. I expect the Clintons and Edwards would confirm that there is no love lost there at all. And the suggestion that he is unwittingly used by them, if, in fact, that's what you're suggesting, is presumptuous and uncharacteristic of Edwards.

As for the defense of the swift boat attacks. You don't believe me about the Cahill/Edwards conflict on it,so there's nothing more I can say, other than that I know for a fact that my account is accurate. I don't expect that this assurance will mean anything to you, and there's no reason that you should suddenly start believing me. I simply know it. So that, I guess, is the end of our argument about it. I say it's so, and you say it's not.

And, please: I didn't smear the Kerry/Heinz decision to separate themselves from the Edwards. Quite the contrary I said it was the usual thing to do, and properly so. This is, in my estimation, exactly the opposite of a smear. I said they did what the top of a ticket should do, and almost always does.

I'm glad you don't blame Edwards for Kerry's loss. Many here do. I also think Edwards should not distort reality, and to the extent that it seems he's dissing Kerry, I think that is not good. I also know that the two men have some differences about how to campaign, but they have many mutually held positions, and respect for each other. Edwards respects Kerry, anyway.

As for admitting mistakes - Edwards was the most unequivocal of all admitters of a mistake. He is very clear on his IWR vote: "I was wrong". No excuses, no finger pointing. He was wrong. As for the campaign, I don't think he thinks he did any less than he could, given the situation.

As for winning his own state, as I said, he was not sent there. You do admit that Kerry wrote off the south, don't you?

Hypocrisy is awful. So is saying things that aren't true...like: "Edwards should have defended Kerry, and he didn't." That statement is not true, to the extent that it doesn't address why he didn't defend him. Talk to Cahill.

[sandnsea]

148. 8/24/2004

Here he is on the attack, so much for Cahill telling him not to. Here he also is, being torn apart for his statements on why he didn't serve. Here he also is, in West Virginia and Virginia.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/8/24/130440.shtml

Here he is in Georgia.
http://www.duanemoody.com/?p=385

Nobody on DU blames Edwards for Kerry's loss. What they object to is wild statements, like yours, that concoct a reality that never existed in order to paint Edwards as a victim of the Kerry campaign. Edwards wouldn't be able to run right now if he hadn't ran as VP. Instead of being appreciative, he goes out of his way to make nasty statements - like he didn't like running as VP. Well if he didn't like it, he shouldn't have accepted. What an arrogant thing to say. He wasn't running for himself, he was running for us and it's an honor for anybody.

As to mistakes, I was talking about the campaign. Not the half-assed IWR apology, which he ALSO uses as an opportunity to bash Kerry, saying HE wasn't misled on the intelligence. Oh no Edwards?? Then I guess he must have been complicit in the misleading because the rest of the country knows Bush lied.

Honestly, the more I think about the man, the angrier I get.

[venable]

159. i give up

if you think that examples of someone countering the attacks is EVIDENCE that Cahill and Kerry did want Edwards to do it, then you and I operate on different understandings of how things work, how things unfold, and even what simple statements mean.

go ahead get angrier.

you are wrong, you are not making sense, you have willfully, or some other way, not understand just about everything I've said. I give up.

[sandnsea]

172. "Edwards Calls Swiftvets 'Liars'"

No no no, it quotes Edwards going after the Swiftboat vets, which you said he was told not to do; and said that if he had, he would have ended in 30 seconds. Everything you said was just wrong.

"...had wisely stayed out of the debate over John Kerry's Vietnam war record - until this past weekend, when he started depicting Swiftboat veterans who have criticized Kerry as "liars."

"They are saying that John Kerry's service in Vietnam was not honorable. That's a lie," Edwards told a town hall meeting in West Virginia on Saturday."

[venable]

182. i said he was told to hold off

the very line you quote says he had stayed out of it. then he went in. this seems to confirm my argument, not refute it.

as for ending it in 30 secs. I said that's how Imus characterized his smashing of the medals-slander.

this all began when someone said Edwards didn't do anything to help Kerry. I offered a clarification on that.

[sandnsea]

183. Yeah, sure, okay

:crazy:

You might want to know you're arguing with people who devoted every spare minute of their time to the campaign for two years straight, many of us were bloggers, we know what went on.

[venable]

185. happy for you, and so do I

know exactly what happened in the case we are discussing. I don't think I have a good idea, I know exactly what I know. I'm not claiming to know everything, so I only posted what I do know, unequivocally. And in so doing, I never for a moment trashed a very good man (Kerry) even though you would like to think that I did. I'll leave it at that.

you say you know, I say I do. seems like a bit of a stand-off.

and you should not think that bloggers are the only ones that spent every waking moment for a couple of years working on the campaign. others did, in capacities that might allow them to know some things, even some things that (gasp) bloggers might not know..

[chimpymustgo]

142. Sandnsea, I'm am jumping into this misleading disingenous thread to say, "Et tu?"

First of all, Edwards' appearance was good. He was funny, relaxed, and said what I wanted to hear on all the issues. He handled the awkward questions about Kerry with a touch of humor.

I AM APPALLED AT THE PREMISE OF THIS THREAD MAKING A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLEHILL. So all the Kerry supporters jump in "Yeah - let's blame EDWARDS for Kerry losing - in fact, NOT FIGHTING FOR THE VOTES WE CAST - as Edwards wanted to - and that is a FACT.

And of course, the ever-jealous-of-Edwards Clarkies jump in because...they CAN. Free turn!

This is getting absurd. Let's stop eating our own in a very misguided effort to compensate for some candidates' shortcomings. Jesus...Edwards is to a lot of folks on this board as the CLENIS is to Freepers.

Get over it and get real!

[mtnsnake]

143. The only thing disingenuous is you. This thread has been civil until you joined it

I saw that scummy post you did behind my back in that other thread calling my thread ignorant and pissant. Wow, sure takes a lot of guts to do something like that behind someone's back.

[chimpymustgo]

144. Well get off your knees and turn around - I'll tell you to your face.

This is a very snarky, unfair - essentially UNTRUE OP. You state yourself, you didn't even see the whole thing. But I see the new strategy. Blame Edwards for Kerry's loss. And, hey Clarkie's - the water's FINE...

Pathetic.

[mtnsnake]

146. "Get off your knees"? Is that some sort of feeble attempt at insulting me?

lol, nice try.

[zulchzulu]

71. There's more to it than that...

Hey, I like Edwards.

However, he certainly was not a strong VP candidate. He didn't really deliver the South with his candidacy. He did a fairly lukewarm job with the debate with Cheney. He didn't deliver his home state.

For him to say that he would have beat Bush is pure bullshit. He would have been hammered hard for lack of experience and being (rightly or wrongly) as an ambulance-chasing lawyer. And if he was such a strong candidate, he would have gotten the nomination. He knew that he would not be able to be re-elected as Senator, hence he decided to run for President. That's not exactly the clear indication that he woulda, coulda, shoulda...beat Bush.

His snarkiness about Kerry is duly noted as well. With friends like Edwards, who needs enemies.

[venable]

135. Rove wanted no part of Edwards

according to a Republican I know, Rove said this on two different occasions. His inexperience would have been an issue, for sure, but Rove did not believe he could demonize Edwards the way he could other candidates. he could insult him, he could call him names, but he couldn't make him seem like a devil.

Rove didn't put it in those terms, but the Republican acquaintance interpreted it that way.

Additionally, a Republican pollster said that Edwards favorability in all parts of the political spectrum, and strength with independents and moderate southern republicans was very worrisome to Rove.

That's why, during the primaries, Republicans put up two anti-edwards sites, and no others.

[earth mom]

50. I disagree. Edwards appeared strong on Leno....and

he was articulate and down to earth at the same time. Leno tried to dig for some dirt on the Kerry campaign and Edwards simply refused to go there. Said there were conflicts because they are two different people just as he and Leno are two different people. But we all know that Kerry promised to fight for every vote and he did NOT which Edwards obviously wanted to do-so more than likely there was a major rift over that but Edwards had too much class as well as smarts to go down that road!

Edwards also got huge applause for saying that * is "dead wrong" with his new plan for Iraq and then he grimly said something to the effect that "however, * is the president and has control over the war" to which a couple of idiotic freepers in the audience applauded loudly but they were quickly hushed! Also, Edwards was man enough to admit he was wrong for voting for the Iraq war. How many in Congress have admitted that? Hmm?

Last but not least, Edwards knew a lot about the situation in the middle east and it was obvious that Leno was getting bored talking about it in depth. The good thing is that people will have a hard time saying that Edwards is a lightweight when it comes to Foreign policy!

All in all I was impressed with Edwards, though I do disagree with him on a couple of things. Plus, Gore is my first choice, but a Gore/Edwards ticket would suit me just fine!

[Skwmom]

52. Don't you think that support for the war being at an all time low

had something to do with Edwards being "man enough to say he was wrong for voting for the Iraq War? By the way, was he also wrong for CO-SPONSORING the Iraq War Resolution? Furthermore, doesn't CO-SPONSORING the IWR indicate what a "lightweight" Edwards is when it comes to foreign policy? So mimicking what knowledge experts have said about the middle east proves one is not a lightweight when it comes to foreign policy? Reminds me of the talking heads who said the same about Bush after the 2000 debates. He parroted Gore and they praised Bush for being so knowledgeable about foreign policy.

[venable]

59. no, Edwards shift against the war

is a result of him shifting against the war, recognizing his mistake.

So, what you're saying is that anything Edwards does that you approve of, is done because some other smarter person told him, or he rips off smarter people.

give us a break, please.

[Skwmom]

61. Well an original thought now and then sure would be nice. Amazing

how he recognized his mistake only AFTER support for the war dropped to an all time low. Funny how others came out against the war before public opinion turned. Of course, after reading the "Flying Circus ..." written by A. Pelosi and the comment about Edwards needing an opinion poll to formulate his opinion on an issue, I don't know why I'd ever think Edwards is a poll-driven politician.

[venable]

65. please don't tell me you get your inside info from A. Pelosi

a new low, I'm sorry to say.

And it is the rare politician who looks to polls less than Edwards. Your info is just flat out wrong, completely and totally.

why bring stuff that's just not true? isn't there enough obfuscation out there?

[earth mom]

64. Edwards, like the rest of us, is more informed now.

Aren't people allowed to change their minds when they become more informed? IMO, anyone who supports the war now is a total neocon or freeper.

Maybe you forgot, but after 9/11, * & Co pulled the wool over everyones eyes and milked 9/11 for everything it was worth. That's why so many people in this country weren't against going to war since they thought that the military was going to get Osama bin Laden, which we all know now was a total joke.

Again, I was impressed that Edwards made a show of strength and character on Leno by first not dissing Kerry-when he had every right to-but also because he admitted he was wrong. People respond to those who show they have strength of character and ethical standards. Edwards has both in spades and that's why he is going to be a tough one to beat.

[Skwmom]

51. Why shouldn't he be cocky? He sure has enough unpaid media and

talking heads cheerleading for him to be the Democratic nominee in 08

[venable]

58. so, if he is a serious candidate and people notice that

is that cheerleading, or is it merely political commentary?

I'd say the latter.

[Catchawave]

54. Edwards on Larry King Live last night too....

...also John Warner, Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Diane Fienstein and Obama (not all together, but that would have been fun watch!) I tuned in late, but it was the post-game show to Bush's speech. Our Dems blew away the Bushbots pro-war talking points :D Go Dems!!!

I'll go look for the transcript later :hi:

[catgirl]

60. Edwards Often Jumps On The Bandwagon....

...then shies away when needed to. It's easy for him to "kick 'em when they're down"
as he is doing to Kerry. I've always wondered about his character. Perhaps he's a
great guy and doesn't always watch what he says. I don't know, but to make
comments like these??????

[fuzzyball]

84. Edwards refuses to take blame for the defeat in 2004

He blames it all on Kerry. That is not good.

[sandnsea]

72. He's been a dick for a while now

Glad some others are starting to notice. He's so full of shit on the IWR and the worst thing is, he insists Bush didn't lie about the WMD intelligence. He and Hillary are completely off my list, we don't need any more of this triangulating finger-in-the-wind crap.

[venable]

92. man, you are whistling up the wrong metaphor

if you compare HRC's triangulating to Edwards M.O.

pay attention to what's actually going down rather than come in swinging with this name calling (and, yes, 'dick' is name-calling, a bit adolescent, but, you know, wha-ev-a).

(In case you are not sure, I'm just showing you what snide and mocking feels like. I am not a fan of it, and hereby disown my imitation)

[Adelante]

171. I strongly disagree

He's always been a dick :D

[Leilani]

201. delete

[Clark2008]

75. Yeah - right.

He couldn't even have won his senate seat back and he's going to beat Bush?

:eyes:

[venable]

93. sez you

link?

[Bryn]

77. I watched Edwards on Jay Leno last night

I thought he did the show just fine and he was very likeable. I don't think he meant to be cocky. He was more like kidding when he said "oh, yeah" and he was laughing, too.

[Catchawave]

94. He has a sense of humor.....!

Flies over most peoples' heads here. Heaven forbid we have a candidate with a "personality" :rofl:

[liberalpragmatist]

79. I didn't see the show, but I've Not Seen Edwards Be Terrible to Kerry Before

Whenever asked, he emphasizes that Kerry is a friend (and they stay in touch). Elizabeth Edwards was very gracious and kind to Kerry in her book. The two defended Kerry's whole troops brouhaha on Chris Matthews.

Edwards has said where he thinks the campaign made mistakes - which I think is fair, because he's trying to argue that he is electable and he has to defend himself against the charge that "he lost once, why should we give him a second chance?"

He has also, I think, been honest that he didn't particularly enjoy running for vice president. And I think that's a fair point. He said on Chris Matthews that ANY running mate is going to be in a subservient position and managed by the presidential campaign. And he expressed that he found this frustrating sometimes.

Like I said, I haven't seen the Leno appearance. But this is just my analysis based on previous Edwards appearances.

[hopein08]

80. Even as an Edwards' supporter, I must beg to differ...

John & Elizabeth did not defend Kerry's botched joke on Tweety's show. He may have tried to but she stopped him by saying "You don't want to go there!"

And, I haven't read her book, but I have read interviews, reviews, and excerpts which lead me to understand that Elizabeth was rather cold toward Kerry and especially Teresa (regarding her wealth, something about the Edwards' personally knowing the artists whose paintings hang on their walls and not having million dollar Dutch masters...and the Wendys/Target references), so I was wondering if you could give me you're opinion (more details, I suppose) on what Elizabeth said about them. I would really appreciate it.

[liberalpragmatist]

81. Here's what I was talking about

On Chris Matthews, they did defend Kerry. Unlike Hillary, unlike McCain, unlike everybody else who pounced on Kerry and called his comments inappropriate, both Elizabeth Edwards and John Edwards casually dismissed the whole brouhaha, with "I think he just made a mistake" (-J. Edwards) and "Way too big a deal was made out of it" (-Elizabeth). When Elizabeth stopped him with "You don't want to go there!" I read it completely differently from you, as Elizabeth stopping John from trying to explain the joke and get in trouble himself, something that was backed up by their subsequent comments about politicians not being comedians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VzSuI69XAU

As for the Edwards' and the Kerrys', the two families reportedly got along quite well during and after the campaign (notwithstanding some frustrations and differences over the course of the campaign). They aren't best of friends, but they have reportedly had each other over for dinner several times and in her book Elizabeth talked about how reassuring and kind John Kerry was to her after learning of her breast cancer. My guess is that Elizabeth's attitude towards the Kerrys is friendly and genuinely positive but a little bit removed (how someone may like somebody but see them as a little out of touch).

Although the cancer was kept private until after the campaign, Edwards told Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate.

"John Kerry can be a great cheerleader, arm around your shoulder, flattering you and urging you on, and that is what he was that day, a sincere and compassionate cheerleader," she writes. "We won't ever forget it."

After Kerry's concession speech in Boston, the Edwardses were driven directly to the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, where a biopsy provided a definite diagnosis. A week later, Edwards began chemotherapy in Washington.

"I don't want to misrepresent this," she writes. "My reaction was to get ready for battle, but I wasn't always strong. I wasn't even strong all that first day. I had times along this path when I wanted to say I've had enough, I can't keep dealing with the latest side effect, the latest setback, the latest scare. I'd be in great pain or just not be able to do things I'd always done, and I'd say I know I have to kill this dragon, but the killing it is killing me."

Now, relations between the two may be a little cooler now. As Edwards ramps his campaign up he's had to distance himself from the Kerry campaign and emphasize his disagreements.

[Catchawave]

86. Well stated, lib! Here's a link to the video:

http://www.vsocial.com/index.php?action=2&d=63972

[ChiciB1]

87. Thank You For Your Post! I Haven't Seen Him On The Attack Either

but this is NOW that was then, but I think they still respect each other. I never say I'm always correct and could be wrong, but I didn't take his comments to be all that "brash!"

[Ninja Jordan]

88. This thread looks like a excuse for the Kerry/Clark people to bash Edwards.

[citizen snips]

89. I agree

This thread adds no substance to the debate.

[mtnsnake]

108. I think it does add something

If someone is borderline disloyal to the guy who chose him for his running mate, then it makes me think twice what kind of character he has. I used to like Edwards a lot, but now he's got me wondering.

[venable]

95. exactly what it is

they really need to find something constructive to do. it is fatiguing and pointless in the extreme.

and the bashing is way off base.

nobody is perfect, people can be criticized, but this is just schoolyard name-calling.

[mtnsnake]

110. It's not bashing. It's pointing out a character trait that is less than desirable

...borderline disloyalty to the man who picked him for his running mate, but call it bashing if you want.

[Catchawave]

96. Yup, sad :(

I love all our hopefuls, we have an amazing and talented field, and when I see a "smear team" for any candidate, THEIR candidate drops lower on my list.

:banghead:

[karynnj]

98. This thread was by MTNSNAKE who usually hits Kerry

This is utter mischief INTENDED to push:

- First the Edwards people to attack Kerry to defend Edwards.

- Then the Kerry people to attack Edwards because of the attack on Kerry.

Good job Mr. snake, you clearly suceeded. The fact is that I have never heard either John or Teresa say a single negative word about the Edwards.

The Kerry people are not the main group of people attacking Edwards here, nor are the Clarkies. Many like Mtnsnake are hard to figure who they are for.

(my post was purely to speak about Kerry - not Edwards - to counter comments attacking him.)

[mtnsnake]

111. So cuz I criticize Kerry for his campaign, this thread is secretly meant to get him

That is the just about the most preposterous thing anyone's ever told me on this forum, and I've had a lot of things hurled my way. You should know by now that if I have anything to say about Kerry, I'll say it, so enough with thinking that I'm somehow out to get him with this thread just because I called Edwards disloyal. My point of this all is that I think the least Kerry deserves is loyalty from his ex running mate. It doesn't mean I've changed my mind one bit about how poor his campaign was.

Look, I started this thread spontaneously from the heart as soon as I saw Edwards being what I considered disloyal to Kerry on the Leno show. When it comes to friends and family, loyalty is the one virtue that means more to me than anything else, bar none. This is about Edwards and Edwards only, but spin it any way you want.

[karynnj]

117. That was not what I said - I said that you - the op - are not a Kerry

supporter or fan. You show more outrage here than any of the Kerry people have.

I don't know your motivation, but it would seem the OP would suffice, but you kept it going until people reacted. I apologize if the motivation was NOT to stir up a fight. I value loyalty as well, but the norm in politics is that there is very little. (It hurts as Kerry himself seems to be one of the few real gentlemen , in the finest sense of the word, in politics. I also would guess that McCain's attacks hurt more.)

[mtnsnake]

118. I already told you what my motivation was

and after your two posts putting your own twisted meaning into my motivation, I'm going to leave it at that. I would've expected much better from you.

[karynnj]

119. That was fast - I was toning my last one down while you posted this

I am sorry if I was unfair. I do think you should look at the entire thread and see why it might have the effect I described - even if it wasn't intended that way.

[LittleClarkie]

101. Mr. Snake normally roots for Hillary. If the Kerry folk are a bit peeved

it's because of the percieved slight from Mr. Edwards. However, it appears from others who saw the same footage, that Mr. Snake may have overstated Mr. Edwards attitude a tad.

And as a Hillary person, I'm sure he wouldn't mind if the Kerry people and the Clark people and the Edwards people were having a fit all over each other.

Me, I just want the John's to play nice, as I've heard that they're supposed to have liked and respected each other at one point.

Otherwise I have no quarrel with either John Edwards or Wes Clark.

[ultraist]

102. Watch the show for yourselves and decide

VIDEO of John Edwards on Jay Leno, 1-10-07: http://vsocial.com/video/?d=63972

Edwards has not and does not negatively campaign against fellow Democrats and for anyone to make the claim he does, is ridiculous.

[LittleClarkie]

104. My journalism history teacher always said a primary source is the best

Much obliged.

[ultraist]

106. My pleasure. ;) n/t

[venable]

109. agree, I'd like to see real camaraderie between the two

I do think that if there are some tensions, there are also some real bonds, and a genuine connection. they are both good, decent, honest men.

[mtnsnake]

113. No. Mr Snake normally DEFENDS Hillary. I'm rooting for Obama or Clark

and THEN Hillary.

[ruggerson]

130. Ah, well that explains the anti Edwards bias n/t

[mtnsnake]

107. This thread is nothing less than being about Edwards's lack of loyalty to Kerry

If you saw him on Leno, you'd know what I mean. I'm not pulling for Kerry, so my motive only comes from my distaste for people who are disloyal to their friends. That's it, period.

[ultraist]

112. Ridiculous!

What a ridiculous claim. I encourage everyone to watch for themselves and decide. I provided a link to the video of the show above.

Edwards did NOT say anything negative about Kerry. He merely said that there were some downsides to running as a VP candidate and dealing with a campaign in general.

WHAT did he say about Kerry that was negative? Please specify.

[mtnsnake]

115. Edwards was tacky as hell starting at about 4:25 of the video

and for the next little bit of it.

WHAT did he say about Kerry that was negative? Please specify.

You need to read my OP again. I never said he said anything negative about Kerry. You don't believe me? Go read what I said for yourself.

[ultraist]

121. You did not specify

You made broad brush interpretations that were colored by your obvious bias against John Edwards.

QUOTE ONE negative comment Edwards made about Kerry---not running as VP in general in a campaign but about KERRY. You can't, because he didn't.

[mtnsnake]

129. Why do you keep asking me to back up something that I never even stated???

Good gawd what a waste of time explaining this AGAIN. For the last time, I didn't say Edwards said a negative thing about Kerry. I guess I'll just have to paste my OP again for you below, so you can see with your own two eyes that I didn't say Edwards said anything negative about Kerry. What I said was I thought he was cocky and I implied that he was unappreciative. Later in the thread I said that I thought Edwards was borderline disloyal, but no where can I remember telling anyone that Edwards made negative comments about Kerry. If you can prove otherwise, then paste my comments in another post so I can see WTF you're talking about. Here, my OP again for you:

When Leno asked him if he would have beaten Bush had he been the one to run for President last time, he said in a real cocky manner, "Oh yeah."

He also said that running as Vice President was not fun for him, and even went as far as hinting that he and Kerry weren't always on the same page. When asked about it, he made reference with Leno that mistakes were a problem.

Edwards also implied that he learned more after the election than during the campaign itself.

He sure wasn't too positive about his experience in 2004. I didn't watch the rest of his appearance, but I wasn't as impressed with him as I thought I'd be.

[Catchawave]

114. meh....

Looky here M/M 'snake:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3052678&mesg_id=3052678

VIDEOS!!!!

There.was.no.disloyalty.

[mtnsnake]

116. kehh...

I already saw it, last night and again on the video someone supplied right here on this thread. What's not disloyal to you is to me. Live with it.

[Ninja Jordan]

120. Did Edwards and Kerry take some sort of blood oath?

What am I missing here? Kerry ran a HORRIBLE campaign!

[ultraist]

122. Even Kerry himself said their were mistakes made

Even Kerry himself said that there were mistakes made with the campaign. BOTH Kery and Edwards have said this and for one to say it does NOT translate into disloyalty.

It's an enormous stretch to say it does. Total false extrapolations and interpretations being made in the OP.

[sandnsea]

125. What mistakes did Edwards make??

Edwards has never said HE made mistakes or owned up to any of his shortcomings. So it isn't accurate to say BOTH Kerry and Edwards admit mistakes. Kerry has taken 100% responsibility for the campaign and never said one word about Edwards. It would be nice if Edwards could have done the same, it's clear he's choosing to join Hillary and go the finger-pointing route instead.

[karynnj]

161. That is a good point

The only thing I have ever heard Edwards say he did wrong was the IWR vote. Even there, he speaks only of the "vote". In fact, he was a co-sponsor, he was for the invasion and he was still for the war at least 6 months and said it was good for reasons other than WMD. It was more than a vote in his case.

As to the campaign, the comments in EE's books actually try to re-write history. The media fostered the idea of a Kerry/Edwards battle after Dean pulled out after losing WI. The next contests were in some of the biggest states - CA, NY and in MA. Kerry was ahead in all of them by more than 20 points in the polls.

EE though has this idea that things could have been different if Dean pulled out and indorsed Edwards before Wisconsin. In fact, not all Dean voters would have gone to Edwards - many would have gone to Kuchinich, not voted or to Kerry. Even if all Dean voters went to Edwards, he would have been essentially tied with Kerry. Kerry would still have been way ahead and would likely have still won all those big states in the first week in March.

The primaries were NOT close and saying so does not make it so and Elizabeth Edwards, considering the branch of law she chose, has to be good enough at math to understand the numbers.

[cadmium]

127. Thanks I appreciate this -- I set a

lot of store by loyalty in these type settings. It means more coming from you because I know you don't care for Kerry very much. Dean, Clark, and Biden had their differences with Kerry but they fought tooth and nail against the Republicans in 2004. Dean even questioned the motives behind the terror warnings to much Fox news disdain. Sharpton did too. These guys were doing a lot more than I can say for some other dems. Liebermann, who was a little less obviously a Bush lackey at the time, went on the Imus show dissing the Kerry-Edwards campaign rather than sticking up for them. I heard Edwards' complaints about being VP candidate and my first responses were: 1. Damn - Kerry never complained about you as VP candidate and 2. If being VP candidate sucks so bad why did you lobby for the job so hard? Well, we will probably disagree when the subject of Kerry comes up again. I appreciate your take on this. I don't like people who badmouth their partners/friends either.

[mtnsnake]

131. You and I are definitely on the same page

I'm glad that you understand where I'm coming from on this. Loyalty between close friends and family is just about the most important thing, AFAIC, and Edwards clearly blew it in this instance, IMO, considering he was Kerry's running mate. I appreciate how you know that my past and present numerous criticisms of John Kerry as a campaigner had nothing to do with my post criticizing Edwards. Thank you.

[cadmium]

180. That is why I will always stick up for Dean, Clark, and Biden on a

character-basis until proven otherwise. I am willing to disagree on their take on issues - especially Biden. They put their own personal ambitions aside and stuck up for the ticket in 2004. Again, I know you aren't crazy about Kerry but note that, aside from swipes at Liebermann, he pretty much never disses another Dem. Liebermann asked for it.

[Blue_In_AK]

132. Mtnsnake, I don't think ANYBODY

who's been paying attention over the past weeks could think that you're pulling for Kerry. That made me laugh. I agree with you about loyalty, though.

[mtnsnake]

137. Thanks, Blue

:)

[Leilani]

150. Is John Edwards exempt from criticism?

Everyday I see threads criticising Hillary, Kerry, Clark, Obama, etc.

People have differences of opinion on a candidates qualities, stands on issues, appearances.

Why is John Edwards above scrutiny?

In 2004, he was treated with kid gloves by the media, while all the others were treated to a witch hunt.

Seems to me, he needs to be looked at very closely, because a smile & good hair, does not a President make.

[MH1]

164. If you think the original poster is a Kerry supporter

either the world's turned upside down or you haven't been reading many Kerry-oriented threads around here.

I took the o.p. as an observation that matched with what I've been seeing, but I think it's a stretch to say the original post was "bashing" Edwards. Critical, yes - and with good reason, imo. As it is coming from someone who is not a fan of Kerry at all, you folks who support Edwards might want to step back and consider it a little more carefully.

That said, it's politics, and some mild disloyalty from Edwards is nothing compared to the traitorous or ignorant (take your pick) behavior of Hillary.

[mtnsnake]

167. I like it

when people post something about me or my post, like what you just did, and they get it right. thanks

[jcrew2001]

124. edwards

I like edwards, but I def want to wait until the debates and see who's in.

There are def a lot of strong advocates at DU for certain candidates, I wasn't aware of this before i signed up.

I think that everyone has flaws, its about minimizing the flaws and over-coming them that will show the winner.

I like edwards and I think he'll be the strongest against Hillary. Clark hasn't announced and he doesn't have the money to compete against Hillary or the personality against Edwards. Obama may make some noise, but he can't beat Hillary. Hillary has the money and the name recognition, I'll give her a chance, but she can very easily stumble, and most people here at least are anticipating it.

Kerry might make some noise, but I think Hillary and Edwards will be able to gain a strong following.

[karynnj]

162. This illustrates why we get poor leaders

There is nothing in the criteria here that has anything to do with the qualities needed to be a good or great President. It is also very media driven. It is also backwards - rather than trying to pick the person most suited to be president, it picks the person designated by the media as "a winner".

You say that Clark doesn't have the personality to beat Edwards. Try this exercise, list the personality qualities YOU think are important to being a good President - then compare the 2. (In 2004, the media pushed Edwards' personality as well - and the voters did not follow.)

You say that Obama can't beat Hillary - but by inference you say that Edwards can. If Obama beats Edwards as the top anti-Hillary, why do you think he would be weaker than Edwards? Looking over each of their lives, Obama has a much stronger claim to having been a grassroots advocate and through his work as an activist, Constitutional Law Professor at the University of Chicago, 8 years in the Illinois Senate as well as being in the Senate, he has as much or more experience than Edwards. At the 2004 convention, Obama's speech (and Kerry's) was far more inspiration and compelling than Edwards'. How is Obama a poorer "anti-Hillary" than Edwards?

I am a Kerry supporter because he has the character, intelligence, experience and vision to be an exceptional President. His biggest liability is that many people who concede that he is an unusually good person and is very capable of being a great President think he cannot win. The fact is though that he had an easy primary victory because he did get people to believe in him and he came within 60,000 votes in Ohio from winning. (Had Ohio had a Democratic governor then, he would be President Kerry. The fact is that at the end of the primary season when the debates were Kerry, Edwards and Kuchinich, Democrats chose the one who they could picture as President.

[jcrew2001]

184. president

I'm beginning to get cynical, but I believe that the next 4-8 years will be extremely difficult, both nationally and abroad, economically and foreign policy. I don't think this would change based on who is president.

So I will pick the person who will be successful in both good times and bad times, and I do believe that Bush has created some serious problems that will be difficult for the next Dem president to fix.

Obama and Clinton are good, smart, but if the times are difficult, will this nation support them.

Clark - i don't really know enough about him and I'm skeptical he will have the patience to work with the govt/congress.

Kerry - I want a fresh voice and i'm kinda sick of kerry, he's kinda like a poor man's (or rich person) Al Gore in many ways. I'm a bit sick of Gore also, but he did win in 2000, so I think he deserves it in 2008 if he ran.

[ChiciB1]

128. Bet You Didn't Think This Would Still Be Going On!

I remember when it started last night and I disagreed with you about him. It's nice to see all the "positive" posts here.

And yes, I do see the negative ones too... but more positive than negative!

[mtnsnake]

133. LOL, ya just never know!

I remember when it started last night and I disagreed with you about him. It's nice to see all the "positive" posts here.

Yes, it seems the Edwards people have come out in droves to passionately stick up for their man, as they should do if they disagree with me.

[ChiciB1]

165. Sorry I Didn't Reply Last Night... My Son-In-Law Just Got Out

of surgery on his feet and I was called to "duty!"

As I had said before, we all have our own opinions and I personally feel that all should be considered and treated respectfully. I have seen some rather nasty confrontations here at DU and try to avoid getting extremely derogative, but I will let my voice be heard. That is what I feel Democracy is truly about, and since I'm from that "Hippie" Generation... old habits die hard about that "big tent" idea... even though we did demonstrate and take to the streets!

But demonstrating without confrontational "in your face" action is more my style! You know, Kill "Em With Kindness" type of thing!

Thanks for the reply... See you on the boards... I'm headed back over to "baby-sit" my son-in-law today while my daughter has to work!

[Generator]

136. Since he had that mole removed-he's unstopable!

Edited to add: IT was doctor's orders-possible cancer but was benign. But I think he's even cuter now. And THAT is an important factor to some.

[peacetheonlyway]

138. I want to campaign for Edwards, give me reasons

I like everything about edwards.
He's real.
he's genuine.
his family is REAL america with eating at wendy's.

but geez. I have one BIG BIG reason I can't swing my howard dean progressive fundraising machine behind Edwards.

maybe it's stupid it's it's real inside my head.

HE DID NOTHING TO COMPLAIN AND LEGALLY FIGHT AGAINST ELECTION FRAUD IN 2004 election.

i heard rumours that Kerry stopped Edwards from fighting legally. I heard that is why Edwards came out and not kerry to say "We will count every vote".

But as a realist, I noticed Edwards DID NOTHING TO COUNT THE VOTES HONESTLY OF 2004.

why should I campaign for this man.

far as I'm concerned Edwards is HEADS and SHOULDERS ahead of OBama and Clinton.

but I"m rooting for a hopeful darkhorse that arises....

need more incentive to vote for and campaign for edwards..


give me reasons... I like the guy... Breck Boy is lovely looking anyway!

[Generator]

139. That was Kerry's decision

I don't think he got to overide Kerry. Though I'm sure you can fault him for not doing that but I'm sure it's "not done". Politics is stinky business. And the breck boy is a slander from the right wing.

Which even though I mentioned him being cute above, (which I really do believe gets votes-Kerry lost votes because as I heard time after time-even on DU-that he looked wooden-like a old tree was something I read here after the election)I liked him better than Kerry and he was my first choice in 2004.

[peacetheonlyway]

140. I see your sig line and respect you

john conyers is the most important person in congress.

you're very close to convincing me I'm watching Breck boy on Leno.

give me one reason to campaign and raise 1.5M for Edwards..

i raised an assload for dean.

give me one good reason to raise an assload of money for edwards..????

[Generator]

195. I'm not big at all on convincing anyone of voting for anyone

But I just see people that my gut says are good guys and I tend to defend them unless they do the undefendable. I still like Kerry but the election aftermath does sit there as the one defining moment that just killed it. He did *his* best but I want something different, a different kind of fighter. I, too, have a hard time getting past the election outrage of 2004-but I honestly believe that Edwards could not override Kerry's decision to throw in the towel. We will never know.

I ADORE Dean but know he could never be president because America has a aversion to the truth. (at least with the media we have now) Dean was the best thing to happen to the Democratic party in 40 years. I think he's the reason we got congres back to some degree.

As for Edwards I will keep watching what he does. If he remains true and doesn't do that triangulation thing,and shows some fearlessness then I will gladly and with maybe almost (but never quite as much) hope vote for him as I did Kerry/Edwards. We need someone that says, "Hell yeah, I would have won." If you don't believe in yourself absolutely you cannot defeat the evil that we now confront.

[peacetheonlyway]

141. the mlk pic

doesn't hurt either..

i'm a GA girl by education.

edwards is the closest to MLK than any other candidate on the field.

rest are fakey to me....

[karynnj]

163. The campaign SENT Edwards out to make the election night statement

At that point, it was not completely clear that they didn't have enough votes. By, the next day, the Democratic lawyers, many the same people who told Gore to fight, told Kerry they had no case.

In 2004 and 2005, there are many Kerry comments on the record dealing voter suppresion (by means that were not illegal - indeqate number of machines*), there are no Edwards' comments. Has Edwards, even after the RFK jr study said anything to the mainstream media that they would have won without suppression of fraud? Has Ewards said in the MSM that he would have challanged the results - and said what his case would have been? What I don't like is when Edwards people and Edwards signal in the liberal blogosphere that they would have fought but don't make the same point in the MSM. If he knew a case could be made he owed it to all of us to speak out at that time.

* There is no law on the books in Ohio on number of machines and the bi-partisan County committees got machine allocation reports before the election. Kerry and Feingold have introduced legislation to mandate that paper ballots that would be counted as regular (not provisionsal) votes be available whenever macines are inadequate or having problem.

[zulchzulu]

147. Conyers admired the Kerry-Edwards campaign...

That story will not be found on the MSM...you have to dig a little deeper...

"Fighting for Every Voter"

A few more words about an issue that is of the utmost importance to me. As political candidates, we spend considerable time and effort every election cycle fighting for votes...

A few more words about an issue that is of the utmost importance to me.

As political candidates, we spend considerable time and effort every election cycle fighting for votes. After the election, whether won or lost, many candidates leave the irregularities of the election behind. But we owe the voters more than that. When voters are disenfrachised, we owe it to them to seek justice and expose the truth.

That is why I have been so proud of the Kerry-Edwards campaign's ongoing involvement in the investigation and litigation of what went wrong in Ohio. I wrote to the candidates recently to ask that they continue to be involved in this important endeavor.

This is not about the past. It is about figuring out what went wrong and why -- and then getting the next election right, not for the Democratic Party, but for all of the voters.

- John Conyers

http://www.conyersblog.us/archives/00000213.htm

[wisteria]

152. Thank you for setting some of the record straight. n/t

[underpants]

166. Go John

:patriot:

[seabeyond]

168. this is what pisses me off with edwards. he has done it more than once. and his wife

they dont have the balls to flat out and say it. they do this stupid highschool bullshit with little giggles and looks. they imply. they say just enough.... to trash kerry. it speaks of character. i didnt play those high school games, and i dont respect people that do.

[AtomicKitten]

169. I don't see the problem with Edwards' interview.

It seems you are imposing your interpretation of what was said and taking issue with tone which is really subjective. He's declared he's running for president. Assuming he discussed his run beforehand with his former running mate as is traditional, the slate has been wiped clean and he's on deck now.

There's no sniveling in politics.

[mtnsnake]

170. A problem I had with it is that he was anything but humble as to his part in Campaign '04

It seems you are imposing your interpretation of what was said and taking issue with tone which is really subjective.

What's there to interpret? When asked by Leno if it was fun for him to run as VP in '04 he gave a blatant NO. He could've at least tempered his answer by saying no it wasn't fun but it was great working side by side with my running mate.

He gave me the impression that he thought of himself as not sharing in the responsibility for losing in 2004.

As far as me taking issue with his "tone" of it, yes I did take issue with his tone in the instance where he answered Leno when asked if he would've beaten Bush, had he run instead. He sounded cocky, almost boasting.

[AtomicKitten]

179. I think it's just generic politics.

he gave a blatant NO ...

"Blatant" is an adjective you are imposing that qualifies in your mind his response.

He gave me the impression that he thought of himself as not sharing in the responsibility for losing in 2004.

The "he gave the impression" is just that, your impression, followed by "thought of himself; you know my feedings about second-guessing what others are thinking. ;)

He sounded cocky, almost boasting.

Again, that's subjective. My impression was he's running for president which IMO requires a certain amount of generic being full of oneself.



Sorry to be at odds with you on this, I just have a nonplussed reaction to something that clearly rubbed you the wrong way. No need to alert the media; just proof-positive that we all, in fact, have separate brains that do not report to the mothership. :)

[mtnsnake]

187. You see

Up here in the boonies where I live in northern NY, we're not used to people being boastful, cocky, and unappreciative like the ones you probably run across on the West Coast so often, and you probably get immune to it after you've been out there long enough, so maybe that's why Edwards came off that way to me more than he would to you. :evilgrin: (j/k of course!!)

Seriously, though, I really wasn't trying to make a huge deal out of it when I posted it the other night, just reporting that he seemed a little on the cocky side in that instance on the Leno show...and unappreciative, also in that instance. I think where a lot of Edwards supporters took exception with me is that maybe they thought I was trying to label Edwards as being that way all the time. That's probably one of the few times he's ever turned me off, but turn me off he did.

BTW, while you deciphered most of the other parts pretty good, you didn't mention the part where I thought Edwards was tacky when he replied to Leno that running as VP wasn't fun for him. What about that one? You don't think that's a little peculiar for a former Vice Presidential candidate to say that, especially one who's going to run again in the near future for the presidential nod? Like if I was Edwards, I would've replied to Leno, "Ya know, Jay, losing wasn't fun, but the experience itself of running for vice president was a ball. I'm so grateful to have gotten the experience of a lifetime and I'm looking forward to doing it again, only this time as presidential candidate."

[AtomicKitten]

189. hmmmm

Who the hell knows for sure, right? I'm sharpening my elbows to go pick up my son from school here in San Francisco; you nailed that part! It's scary here sometimes.

I think accepting a back seat when one pines for the front seat may be the basis for the "not fun" comment. I just think all bets are off when a candidate declares.

Be prepared for the lobbing of barbs big time in this open election. There will be much to analyze and kvetch over, so don't use is all up on this!

Politics isn't for the faint of heart and not to be taken personally IMO. Buckle your seat belt.

[zulchzulu]

177. After viewing the interview again, I just think he was nervous

Leno is kind of creepy and wants to get into the gotcha mode more than Letterman does. It was apparent that Edwards didn't know what the hell Leno was talking about at the start of the interview...which would make just about anybody except Robin Williams nervous.

When Leno asked Edwards if he ran for President in 2004, could he have beat Bush, I think his reaction was more nervousness at the intent of the question than something approaching "cocky". He could have corrected Leno by saying he did run for president...but whatever...

I think Edwards was just trying to get past the Leno Creep Factor.

[AtomicKitten]

181. Edwards DID run for president in 2004.

I think he was responding to the "what if" regarding his own shot at the top job, not as the wingman for another.

And, you nailed it, Leno is a shoe salesman (no offense to Al Bundy, of course) compared to David Letterman.

[mtnsnake]

188. Leno might be "a shoe salesman compared to Letterman" but

Leno's opening monologue is way way funnier than Letterman's, IMO. Don't get me wrong, I like Letterman, too, just not his monologue as much.

[AtomicKitten]

190. Leno is a comedic mechanic - Letterman an artist

so sayeth me

[AtomicKitten]

194. actually I'm holding a grudge because he endorsed Schwarzenegger

As did Oprah. That still doesn't sit well with this Californian and I know how to hold a grudge.

[zulchzulu]

207. I think Leno endorsed Ahnuld becuz he'd git to ride on one of dem hogs

Leno is to Letterman as is a cold, soggy cheeseburger is to Chateau Briand with Bearnaise Sauce.

There...I said it.

[chimpymustgo]

191. Okay...I think I understand a lot more now. Leno over Letterman???

No accounting for taste...

[AtomicKitten]

193. no, I guess there isn't

And, you know what? We are all entitled to our opinion, particularly an opinion that is proffered half-kidding. It's rather silly coming off as condescending on such a petty issue; that's just boorish behavior about something that is minutia and off-topic to this conversation about Edwards.

[AtomicKitten]

203. hey, mtnsnake, did ya see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x12328

[mtnsnake]

205. No, not until just now. Funny stuff!!

I'm not usually a big fan of the Top 10, but that one was really good. Thanks. :thumbsup:

[snowbear]

186. Edwards did a great job on Big Eddie today.. Senator Kerry was also on..

Both did awesome interviews, as did Barack Obama who was on there yesterday!

[benny05]

196. It was short, but to the point

On Ed Shultz's show.

[cadmium]

204. Ed did a good job keeping these short

interviews substantive. Kerry's interview was totally focused on issues and free from politics. Political horse race blah blah is tempting but largely distracting.

If you get a chance --listen to Kerry's interview. This is the serious Kerry that some of us have grown to admire.