Obama simply has what it takes. Not only is he brilliant, he is a NATURAL

[mtnsnake]

If you're an Obama fan, you can rest assured that this guy simply will not screw up. He's got it down to a science, the way he mingles with people, the way he talks, his mannerisms, everything...even the way he shakes hands, smiles, kisses, hugs, ...he does it all naturally...he is just so damn likable. In other words, he is COOL. He is so fucking smart, cool, & charismatic that if he can get past the primaries we're looking at the next Democratic president in Barack Obama.

Obama's got electability written all over his face.

[msongs]

1. sounds like a paid advertisement does it not? do you offer a money back guarantee? nt

[DeepModem Mom]

2. It's a gift very, very few are given. Whatever it is, he has it. nt

[Debi]

3. There has got to be a better term than 'electability' to describe a candidate n/t

[journalist3072]

7. Thank you! eom

[JNelson6563]

4. The end of the world is upon us

I agree with you 100%.

Julie

[sandnsea]

79. Don't look now

But so do I.

:rofl:

[journalist3072]

5. I have some questions as to whether he's really ready for prime time

What's his excuse for bowing out of the first debate of the Democratic candidates?

[pnwmom]

11. Why does he need one? There's plenty of time.

[journalist3072]

16. If he's serious about his candidacy, he needs to participate in the debate

There seems to be a lot of style to Barack Obama, but I keep going back to a point that Al Sharpton is raising: what is the substance? What does he stand for?

And he should not be afraid to participate in a debate with his fellow candidates.

[pnwmom]

18. I'm sure he's not afraid. But at this point in his candidacy, he's decided

that there are other things that are a better use of his time.

There's plenty of time for debates later, closer to the actual primaries.

[journalist3072]

24. What's wrong with having debates now?? This is serious business.

George W. Bush had done a lot of damage to this country. There's work to be done, to undo that damage. And the Democratic candidates should be out there debating how to undo that damage.

And since he has already declared his candidacy, he needs to fully engage in that process. And part of that engagement is participating in debates with your fellow candidates.

[thoughtcrime1984]

45. He just announced his candidacy today, Chicken Little, give him at least a little time.

lol

[journalist3072]

53. He OFFICIALLY announced today, but it's been pretty obvious for some time now

That he's in the race. So with respect, I don't buy the "he just announced today" line.

I don't understand the problem that some people on here seem to have, with substance. We need substance....not floss and gloss.

[thoughtcrime1984]

54. Again, what have the others candidates given you?

As we move forward, the ideas will flow, or the candidates will not have a chance- simple as that.

[journalist3072]

56. I've already participated in online discussions with Hillary Clinton and John Edwards

They've both already held online webcasts where you could submit questions to them. I submitted my questions, and even though they weren't selected to get answered, I got a chance to hear their positions on a range of issues.

[jefferson_dem]

154. If you watched today's announcement and didn't hear any "substance" i would say...

respectfully, you weren't listening. If today didn't do it, dial up his presentation at the DNC Winter Meeting. I think the video still rests at cspan.org.

Maybe people just assume that because he can deliver a stem-winding, inspirational speech, built upon a principled theme...he has no substance to back up the style. :shrug:

[Hard_Work]

234. Wrong time for ANY Dems to have debates, IMO

"George W. Bush had done a lot of damage to this country. There's work to be done, to undo that damage. And the Democratic candidates should be out there debating how to undo that damage."


Actually, I think we are better served by the candidates who are Senators going to work and trying to halt the expansion of W's destruction of this country. There will be plenty of time to fiddle later, but while Rome is burning, I would prefer everybody man the buckets.

[Tellurian]

210. OBama is still preparing himself for the debates..

He would rather take the flack for missing one than to falter miserably his first time out!

[ripple]

13. Isn't that a candidate forum, rather than a debate? n/t

[thoughtcrime1984]

25. As has been said countless times....

The event in Carson City is not a debate. The candidates will speak one at a time. Do you really believe that Obama will not participate in events and, yes, actual debates as time moves on? C'mon now. The man is incredible and wants our input more than any president in my 32 year lifetime. I am not even considering any other candidate. "Experience" is way overrated, and its' literal meaning is politics as usual, plenty of time to become corrupted by special interest groups and large corporations. Barack Obama is a special human being, a leader that we can truly stand beside and believe in. Why so many people dump on him, I'll never know. Sad. Try to find the goodness in things, it is much more enjoyable.

[journalist3072]

34. Well, I don't think it matters whether it's a candidate's forum or a debate

The fact is that it would be an opportunity for him to stand side by side with his fellow candidates and say "this is what I offer you."

What is the harm in that?

As far as I'm concerned, I know nothing more about Obama today, than I did when I first heard of him at the 2004 Democratic Convention.

For example, he was on the Tom Joyner Morning Show recently, and there was absolutely no substance to the interview (which I do blame Joyner for, as much as I love him).

There was a lot of good-natured joking around about the Superbowl and the Chicago Bear's prospects, but there was no policy discussion. It was very disappointing for me.

This is not a game. I am determined to vote for my own interests. And in order for me to do that, I need to know where the candidates stand on the issues.

[thoughtcrime1984]

41. Check barackobama.com or look up his Senate voting record

His ideas and voting record are there for all to see. What exactly do you know about Hil or Edwards that you don't know about Obama? My defense of Obama boils down to one word: integrity.

[flpoljunkie]

29. It is not a debate, it is a forum. The first debate will be in New Hampshire on April 5th. You can

rest assured Obama will be there. It is being sponsored by CNN.

Obama was already scheduled to be in the Las Vega, Nevada, area the 18th.

[DebJ]

49. So is this debate just for Democrats? What about Repub

candidates, sad, sorry, boring pack that they are. I heard 'debate', but no details.

[Katherine Brengle]

222. He's considered a front runner - he doesn't need early debates for publicity.

He'll be all over tv and the papers without doing any early debates. He can stave off burnout and let the others pick each other off before he gets in the ring.

I think it's brilliant strategery ;).

[zanne]

6. What will anger the GOP most is...

He's an intellectual, and he sounds like an intellectual. Unlike Jr., he doesn't talk down to a crowd. The GOP will call him "intellectual elite". They used the same words 30 or so years ago, and they'll use the same words now, because it worked for them back then.

[tridim]

21. Go for it GOP, "intellectual" is not a bad word

Only fat, rich, crusty Republicans believe that it's bad to posses intellect, everyone else respects it.

[Olney Blue]

38. The fact that the GOP served up W as a candidate negates

any credibility on their part in regard to understanding the meaning of intelligence.

[Barack_America]

47. An African American referred to as "Intellectual Elite"....

Yes, I think that I would like to hear that!

But they would also have to avoid that he is a so-called "self-made man", which also appeals to a lot of Republican voters.

Ah yes, the Republicans are going to have a hard time with Obama...

[Imagevision]

180. Check it out, even Tom Delay says he prefers Hillary over Obama - GOP can't control Obama

[BuelahWitch]

225. To the GOP, anyone who can speak in whole sentences

with words that have more than two syllables is intellectual. Fuck them.

[pnwmom]

8. Wasn't that a fabulous speech?

And no notes? And no teleprompter? And no little plugs in his ears?

Imagine having a President who could actually speak like that.

My mother, who is a senior citizen, and white, and living in Texas, LOVES him. I hope that's a sign of things to come.

(And wasn't he brilliant to stage that in Springfield.)

[mtnsnake]

22. Yes he was

brilliant to stage it in Springfield, despite what we'll no doubt hear to the contrary from his detractors anytime now.

Even his remarks about religion are done in such a fashion as to let it be known to the rotten bastards from the GOP that they don't have the only rights to God or religion. The man just comes off so damn smart..and inspiring. It's almost uncanny to think we now have someone who can come off as intelligent, inspiring, charismatic, unoffensive, and cool.

[pnwmom]

27. All that, and fun, too.

As they say, a guy you'd like to have a beer with. With a family you'd love to have for dinner.

[chimpymustgo]

99. It was a fabulous speech. But he did have a teleprompter.

Notice 2 clear plates on stands on either side of him? Though he did not seem to use the prompter (which is also a skill which can be learned), he truly seemed to be giving the speech mostly from his heart and head. But the prompter was there.

[pnwmom]

145. Okay. I wondered how anyone could manage such a long speech

with no help. Well he certainly did well with the delivery!

[VOX]

184. He had the glare of the low winter sun directly in his eyes...

I watched him intently to see if he was reading off the teleprompter -- I couldn't detect him doing so.
But if he somehow actually was, man, he's ***good***. :thumbsup:

[beaconess]

123. He had a teleprompter

But it was still a great speech.

[GenDem]

9. Totally agree!

He's got the "it" factor all sewn up.

[benny05]

10. I just saw him on C-Span

I think we are all lucky we have a pretty good lot of candidates to run in 2008.

Hillary has some work cut for her.

[Clarkie1]

12. Obama is a good man and a fine candidate.

I like the fact that he has worked in civil rights law, and spent time in community organizing.

He is brillant, and his past actions clearly demonstrate his values. I believe he will pull a lot of support from the Edwards camp...he's clearly the superior candidate and has a hell of a lot more genuineness and integrity than Edwards has ever had.

[pnwmom]

14. I agree. He's a big threat to Edwards, and to Sen. Clinton.

[benny05]

26. Not a threat

But Obama will be a formidable competitor, even if he parrots a lot of what Edwards says. The current government is our threat.

[mtnsnake]

30. Obama doesn't need to parrot anyone. nt

[benny05]

35. I agree

But often does. I'm looking forward to hearing more about his views. I also want to know why he supported Condi Rice's confirmation if he was so opposed to the war in the first place, as he said today.

[BL611]

88. Because he is a constitutional lawyer

and believes that his role in the senate of advise and consent on cabinet members does not entitle him to voting against someone because he has a political dispute with him. If you would like to hear about his views, he has two books out, the latest one goes into detail specifically about that vote.

[benny05]

131. Good to know

I'll have to check out the second book. The first one doesn't really say his views since it is more biographical in nature. I liked his first book.

[Imagevision]

181. I agree, Obama is a serious threat to Edwards and Hillary... it's a matter of time...

[wisteria]

15. He has appeal no doubt, but I am more concerned with real

substance and honesty and less flash. I don't want empty promises.

[journalist3072]

19. Thank you. Someone who finally gets it about Obama

He's big on style; but what does he really stand for?

For example, there is a disconnect between the overall unemployment rate in this country, and the unemployment rate for African-Americans. The unemployment rate for African-Americans is much higher. I'd like to see him explain what policies he believes he could enact as President, to close this divide between the overall and African-American unemployment rates.

Where does he stand on voting rights for DC residents?

And much more..

[thoughtcrime1984]

44. There are 11 months before the first Primary.

Rest assured, your questions will be answered.

[journalist3072]

55. It doesn't matter that the first primary is 11 months away

There are plenty of people, such as Obama, declaring their candidacies now. And since they are doing so, they need to put their ideas and policy positions out there now. I think it would be pretty ridiculous to say I'm declaring my candidacy now, but it's so early in the game and so I'll wait a few months before letting you know where I stand on the issues.

[thoughtcrime1984]

72. He never has said anything remotely like that.

It seems like you are trying to make Obama look bad, (and failing) as has the national media. Since you have already decided not to support Obama, then don't. Go to the polling place tomorrow and make your selection. Oops, I mean in 11-13 months. Obama's stances on issues are easy to find, if you really cared to look.

[wisteria]

86. What are his ideas and what are his plans? How is that making him look bad?

When you run for office you should know why you are running and how you intend to make things better for all people. How is that making him appear bad?

[thoughtcrime1984]

96. His stances are out there

Go look, if you care. It sounds as though a few in this topic have their mind made up to be anti-Obama and to be argumentative. Today was not and was never meant to be about policy, it was a ceremony. I'm done with this, it's a long campaign, nothing is won or lost today.

[Jim Sagle]

170. Actually you're NOT making him look bad. Your attempt to do so is a total flop.

[journalist3072]

92. I did not say he said that.

YOU are the one saying the first primary is months away...and that my policy questions regarding Obama will be answered. So I was responding to YOUR premise, when I said it would be ridiculous for a candidate to announce really early, and then wait to announce their policy decisions.

[thoughtcrime1984]

95. His ideas on policies are out there, go look for them if you care

at all. Or , most likely, you just like to argue and complain. Obviously, he has been in the Ill Senate for 8 years, and the US Senate for nearly 2, there are records of his stances out there. Trust me, there are! The purpose of today was not to discuss policy, it was a ceremony to announce his entrance into the campaign. Get it?

[journalist3072]

102. So you ASSume that because I'm asking serious questions of him

That I simply like to "argue and complain?"

Yes, he was in the Illinois senate, and he's been in the US Senate. That does not mean all my questions about him have been answered.

- Has he explained his position on voting rights in the Congress, for residents of the District of Columbia?

- Has he fully explained why he supported reporting Condi Rice's nomination (as Secy of State) out of the Senate Foreign Relations Committe, to the full Senate, when it was clear that Rice did not do her job as National Security Adviser.

You seem to be baselessly attacking anyone who is not lockstep with you in your support of Obama. And you're conveniently missing what has been my overall point: that he needs to move beyond style, and get more into the substance of where he stands. How can you go on the Tom Joyner Morning Show, and not lay out a single policy position?

[thoughtcrime1984]

104. My only assumption is that you are argumentative and unwilling

to do any research on a candidate. Go look, do it now!!

[journalist3072]

115. Again, that is something you ASSume even after I told you

that I've participated in online webcasts with other candidates, because I want to know where the candidates stand on the issues of importance to me.

So, your ASSumption is wrong. Just admit that you will have a problem with anyone who isn't blindly following behind YOUR candidate, and move on already.

[thoughtcrime1984]

117. Wrong again

You are just arguing for arguments sake. Obama has spoke of issues, you have just chosen to ignore what he says and then start shit on an internet message board, of all places. I happen to like John Edwards quite a bit, too. I don't care who supports who, just not for ridiculous reasons, such as yours. If you want to know his positions, open your eyes and look!!!!! Start at barackobama.com, google his name, it is not that difficult. Go participate in some more webcasts, have a blast.

[journalist3072]

120. No, YOU are wrong.

First of all, I never said Barack Obama hasn't spoken out on issues. Obviously he has. My point is that I need to know more of where he stands on certain issues that are of major importance TO ME!

Secondly, I didn't start any "shit" on here...you're the one who started replying to my post, thank you.

Thirdly, you said "I don't care who supports who, just not for ridiculous reasons, such as yours." Are you that illiterate or clueless? I have already mentioned to you that I have not made a decision on who to support. I don't know who will get my vote yet.

Move on already, with your Obama staness. You're starting to bore me.

[thoughtcrime1984]

125. Why are you even in this topic?

I'm sure you are everyone's intellectual superior, as you have your own blog. Hooray for you. Start a new topic rather than pissing in one that was started to celebrate Obama's entrance into the Presidential race. I have been bored with you all afternoon, I'm sure you will get the last word, as you are obviously wont to do. I don't know if you were here looking for all the answers to your questions, but the obvious answer is to have some g-damn patience and I'm sure Barack will address most every concern. Good day.

[journalist3072]

129. Because I have a right to be in this thread. What's more,

you just confirmed what I suspected all along: you want everyone to follow you in your Obama staness.

You said "Start a new topic rather than pissing in one that was started to celebrate Obama's entrance into the Presidential race." In other words, you only want Obama worshippers in this thread? No one else is allowed to give their opinion?

That speaks volumes about you.

[thoughtcrime1984]

130. You want answers to all your questions, work a little

I or anyone else do not have the answers you are seeking. Contact Obama yourself, or have the patience, and he will address these issues. I really don't care what you think of me, BTW. Just as you shouldn't care about what I think of you.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nedsdag]

156. Who are you supporting?

n/t

[journalist3072]

161. I haven't decided yet. I'm weighing and studying where everyone stands

on the issues that are truly important to me, and then I'll make a decision. Really, I would like to see Rev. Al Sharpton enter the race. If he were to do so, I would most likely cast my vote for him.

[wisteria]

82. Exactly. What is he waiting for? Doesn't he know now! n/t

[mtnsnake]

57. "what does he really stand for"?

If you really don't know, then just check out his voting record in the Senate. Out of 100 Senators he ranks 16th most progressive when voting on all the issues. His votes are even more progressive than the likes of Clinton, Kerry, Biden, Feingold, Dodd, Reid, etc etc.
http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?chamber=Senate&party=All&x=44&y=12

[wisteria]

87. OK so his votes are progressive. What has he lead on ?What has

he championed. What makes him a powerhouse? What leadership roles has he taken on in the senate?

And, how about his senate record when he was in the state house in Ill.

[mtnsnake]

98. "What has he led on? What has he championed?"

"What makes him a powerhouse?"

Well, for starters, he's championed the anti-war sentiment right from the beginning. How many of our candidates can say that?

As far as being a leader, all one has to do to realize this man is a leader is listen to him speak, research his progressive record in the Senate and speeches he's given persay, or read his books to get an idea of what he stands for.

His personality contributes to him being a powerhouse. I don't think he'd be the same powerhouse that he is if he didn't have the amount of charisma and charm that he does. This will go a long ways toward setting himself apart from the rest of our candidates.

He's young, he's not as experienced in the Senate as some of the old pros are, but he seems to have the tangibles it takes to become a fine leader and the intangibles it takes to win. At least to me he does. He's very consistent, too.

[thoughtcrime1984]

101. The onus is on you to do your research

Don't ask us to do it for you. Weigh the issues, look into the candidates. The decision is yours based on your interpretations of what you find. I don't think that I, or any other Obama backer is going to be able to make up your mind for you, or to change your opinion. If you don't like what you see, and don't want Obama to get the nomination, then by all means, work to counter that.

[BL611]

91. I would respectfully say

that I think its you that does not get it. Obama's positions are every bit as much available as anybody else running. He has many votes as a state and US Senator, and has given major speeches on just about every major policy issue facing our country, not to mention that he has written two extremely personal books that go into much further depths of his views on the issues than anything you have (and probably will) see from any other candidate during the campaign. African American unemployment rates? Why don't you read his first book which is in large part about his time as a community organizer in South side Chicago. DC voting rights? What candidate has taken a stand on that? I'm pretty sure that Obama (like any other Democrat) would love to have a democratic bastion like DC have electoral votes, but holding it against him that he has not made it a major platform plank is clearly a standard you don't extend to the other candidates. Again I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but if you took the time to do the research rather than parroting the standard media line of "We don't know what he stands for", the info is out there and easily accessible.

[thoughtcrime1984]

97. Some just want to stir the pot and appear as ignorant as the right-wing media.

Obama can't please everyone, at least not today.

[bling bling]

110. I hope you stick around here.

If so I look forward to seeing your rebuttals to posts like that more often. I and others have a lot we can learn from posters like you.

[thoughtcrime1984]

113. I'll be here

I may go a few days in between posting, but I will stick up for Obama when he gets unwarranted flack. I am a Democrat, and will support our nominee, be it Obama, Hillary, Edwards, or whoever. I want to see universal health care, the end of the war, policies which give no relief to corporations who choose to send jobs overseas, stronger and more labor unions, basically anything that most middle-class, hard-working Americans want. I trust Obama the most to work towards these ends.

[bling bling]

121. I was holding my daughter in my lap while I watched Obama's announcement.

I kept thinking about how I want someone like Obama in office now to help get this country back on track for her sake.

Your username reminded me of that. I think Obama gives us the best chance of restoring diplomatic relations overseas and uniting this country so that we can work together to continue evolving in the right direction. Bush has set us back so far in so many ways and I've been devastated by the fear that our kids will continue to pay the price of this man's reckless policies.

Obama gives me the hope back that I've been desperatly wanting. Hope that we can knock it off with the bullshit petty distractions and get to work on securing the future for our kids.

[thoughtcrime1984]

126. Absolutely

A nation united, not divided. He embraces the hope that so many of us have for our futures and our childrens' futures.

[beaconess]

124. That's what the campaign is for . . .

[thoughtcrime1984]

37. I think Obama is far more likely to at least try to deliver on his promises

than any other candidate. All this talk of flash and "no meat" or substance is hogwash. What have the other candidates given you? Check Obama's Senate voting record, check his website. His beliefs and ideas, which he will undoubtedly expound upon, are there for all to see. He is a breath of fresh air, in that he doesn't view Repubs as enemies, but as part of the United States. What a novel idea, working together to achieve goals, rather than bitter division and ruling by fear and doubt. He has no sense of entitlement or destiny, as Hil does. Nobody wants empty promises, the question is who do you believe? I believe Obama the most, by far.

[sandnsea]

83. I hear substance and honesty

That we're going to all have to work, that it'll take more than a President to change this country because it has to change in every corner of America. We have to do our part too. Somebody is finally calling on every American to do their part. That was one of the things I thought was missing from Kerry's campaign, the specific call for each of us to get to work.

[wisteria]

90. Now, that may be a point, but it could also be a cop-out. A lay the blame

elsewhere if things don't work out. And, I want to see more honesty than just saying we all need to work for the betterment of our country. I have noticed him being more evasive and less to the point recently.
As for Kerry's campaign, I doubt he could have gotten a message of unity out there. The country was to angrily divided in 04. People still don't want to work together. IMO.

[sandnsea]

111. "the better angels of our nature"

I think the Kerry's were trying to raise the level of discourse and appeal to the country to come together so America would be America again. I hear Obama saying very much the same things JK said, and he point blank promised universal health care in the first term of his Presidency. So that's not being evasive or passing the buck at all. I'm not exactly sure what you're not hearing in the honesty department.

[citizen snips]

17. I am glad Obama is in the race.

He will start gaining more attention then Hillary which is good for Edwards.

[pnwmom]

23. I doubt that his candidacy will be helpful to Edwards or Clinton.

[citizen snips]

40. When the race begins

Obama and Edwards will be able to articulate their positions better then Hillary. So eventually Hillary will not only be outspoken by Edwards but also Obama. Less attention will be given to Hillary which will put Edwards in a better position.

[mtnsnake]

61. Interesting speculation, Mattman

You just might be right. Part of the fun of it is trying to figure out things such as what you're alluding to and how it'll all play out.

For example, Hillary has more experience and clout but is less likable (I like her okay, btw).

Edwards has less experience but is a fine speaker.

Obama has less experience than Hillary, but is likable to the nth degree. Where I believe he sets himself apart from the rest is that he has the best combination of traits of all of them. He's intelligent, honest, outspoken, charismatic, inspiring and makes very few mistakes, if any. And unlike the rest of the heavyweights, he has nothing to apologize for when it comes to the illegal war.

I think eventually Obama will outspeak all of them. He'll be able to articulate his position much easier because he's got no reason to be inconsistent. He has no IWR baggage to worry about.

[saracat]

65. But Edwards is just as likable as Obama.

I have heard all of them speak and met them. I have no choice as of yet but Edwards has the most charm of the three and out of all of them he has the knack of speaking as if you are the only person in the world that is important.Obama is an orator and generalizes.Hillary has no warmth as a speaker.She is flat.All of them would be a great president for different reasons.

[smalll]

89. Which of them will seem more "likeable" though?

And I think what we mean here by "likeable" is their charisma, or personas - bright, lively people who can connect as well as impress and shine, and come across as nice guys? I think your take on Edwards, that he "has the knack of speaking as if you are the only person in the world that is important" makes sense on a certain level, but I think that comes in part from his trial lawyer experience, when he is speaking to only 12 people who are right in front of him. I'd guess an excellent trial lawyer like Edwards would definitely be able to successfully cultivate the speaking-directly-to-YOU style. At the same time, this skill, as with a lot of trial-lawyery ways, can also come across a little inauthentic and insincere. This may be a problem for Edwards, when the vast electorate, on the whole, will only be experiencing him on TV, on the little box - the air (rightly or wrongly felt) of insincerity might get through, certainly the feeling that he's speaking just to YOU will be less.

This is not to say that Obama beats Edwards in the end! I don't know which way it will go. I do think that both have that bright charisma that might very well out-talk and out-shine Hillary and eventually leave her in the shade, and either could end up on top. I will say that I think for many people, Obama's shine comes across less practiced and more "authentic" than Edwards'. On the other hand, Obama's unusual, peripatetic childhood, tied to his at times academic air, might have left him with a persona that is less of a "Great Connector" with America, as Edwards certainly would win the "down-home America" stakes. Sure, John Edwards is a multimillionaire, and being the sparkplug he is, he got out of his original milieu very fast, but yet and all he really WAS the "son of a mill worker" at the beginning.

It will be a great show! And again, I feel even more comfortable with our Big Three (Hillary, Edwards, Obama) when I compare them to what the Repubs face with THEIR Big Three (Giuliani, McCain, Romney.)

[citizen snips]

66. It will be interesting to watch

Obama came out of nowhere in Illinois senatorial primary which is a credit to his campaign skills. So we could see a big swing for Obama if he plays his cards right.

[martymar64]

206. I think you put it very well

I've waiting for someone like Obama to come along, someone without the baggage of the war to have to backpedal on. He's got my vote.


BTW, it's nice to agree with you for once.

[stellanoir]

20. He is something we haven't seen in eons. . . He is genuine.

How refreshing is that. . .?

I view his so called inexperience as more importantly. . . sans baggage, unlike the other presumed frontrunner the media so loves to shove down our throats.

Energetically he is drawing from some amazingly fresh energies that may just be unsmearable.

Go get 'em Obama. This could be fun for a change.

OBSW

[pnwmom]

31. Something's in the air

that feels awfully Kennedy-ish.

[mtnsnake]

43. What a perfect description you gave

and yes, I agree that it really could be fun for a change.

:toast:

[bling bling]

28. "We're looking at the next Democratic president in Barack Obama...."

I hope so. The first obstacle I see is to convince the Democrats that that if we nominate him, he WILL win.

[mtnsnake]

39. That's the only obstacle I see, too, but I think he's in a perfect position

If he were out ahead of the pack, I'd be more worried than the position he's in right now of being behind somewhat. From what I can see, Obama has no where to go but up, and the other ones no where to go but down. Obama is simply too captivating. In the end, I think most Democrats will find him too irresistible to ignore. He's got far less baggage than anyone else, too.

[DebJ]

32. I can't seem to access the part of his website where you can

volunteer or hook up with others in your area, etc. Maybe too many people trying?

[elizm]

80. I'm having the same problem..

...so it must be very heavy traffic at the moment.

[benny05]

33. I like what Edwards had to say about the 2008 Race

On NPR on Thur:

Interviewer: He was asking how do you feel running in campaign against an African American Barack Obama, a woman Hillary Clinton and he says given the difficulties they face would you accept either as a vice-president candidate should you win the nomination?

JE: Well, I'll answer the later first and then I'll go to the heart of the question. I think either of them if I were to be successful, and I believe I will be, but if I were to be successful in the nomination process either of them would be very serious candidates for the vice-president. I have a high opinion of both.

As to the fact that Senator Obama is African American and Senator Clinton is a woman I'll just say this in the simplest language I know how to every democratic primary voter who hears my voice right now - if you are considering not voting for Senator Clinton because she is a woman or Senator Obama because he's black you shouldn't vote for me. Because I think having a real diversity in both in the candidates and in the campaign and in an administration, in my administration, is the heart and soul of who I am.

[Olney Blue]

42. Great statement by Edwards.

[mtnsnake]

52. I agree. nt

[zulchzulu]

36. I couldn't agree more...

I don't want him to be the frontrunner yet, though... it's too early.

[Connie_Corleone]

46. Yeah. Let his numbers steadily creep up behind Hillary's.

[ificandream]

48. A stolen observation...

I pulled this off another board. It's an observation by a Republican. I find it very interesting:

"I work with hardcore republicans who roll their eyes in any suggestion that might bring into question the war or Republican policies and sigh when they hear the name of a democrat.

"But they LOVE this guy. They say "there is just something about him that makes you feel better listening to him". Now they don't think at this point they will vote for him but if Giuliani doesn't get the nod on the Republican side they currently say they will consider it if Obama gets the nomination."

I find this pretty fascinating that Repubs think he's a "feel better" candidate. I realize I agree with that assessment, though I've never seen that mentioned anywhere before.

[mtnsnake]

51. I have also heard that.

I mentioned to a couple republican acquaintances of mine how Obama was going to be the next president just to get a rise out of them, and each one of them surprisingly said they would have no qualms about that.

[mtnsnake]

50. Same here, when it comes to the frontrunner thing you mentioned

I alluded to that a few posts above in #39.

Being on top right now usually means just one thing. The only way to go is down. I think Obama is right where he wants to be at this point. He's still in a strong position, but with plenty of room to go up. I have full confidence he'll be the talk of the town in the near and distant future.

[Barack_America]

58. I think that everybody underestimates "likeability"

Not everyone follows the issues as closely as people on this board. For a lot of people, a feeling of "trust" is the most important factor in their vote. I think that those people will vote for Obama over Clinton.

Never mention that the media adores him and MSNBC has bascially given him $10 million of free advertising today because of that (and that a LOT of people are watching the news today because of the Anna Nicole Smith fascination).

[DeepModem Mom]

59. I agree. Think about it -- our greatest Presidents have been "likeable." Imagine...

getting through the Depression and WWII if FDR hadn't been "likeable." There's more to leadership than the right policies. You have to sell both your policies and yourself. You have to sell, as Obama does, hope.

[Barack_America]

60. It's about trust...

And I think that Obama has something about him that says "Trust Me". I think that people here forget that Pres. Clinton was wildly "likeable". The fact that he is also the last Dem president, is not a coincidence. Bush also ran and won on "likeability", his likeability was just limited to roughly half of the population. I think that Obama's charisma appeals to a much greater number of Americans.

A lot of Americans don't "get" politics, either because they don't have the education or time to follow politics properly. All they have to go on is an issue or two and TRUST.

[saracat]

62. I still think it was an enormous insult to Labor to ditch the Nevada Forum.

All the other major candidates are going.Maybe he thinks he doesn't "need' Labor/ Dunno. I like him put so far don't see substance.

[VADem11]

70. Not really

It's not like he has ignored labor. He went to the SEIU executive meeting and he explicitly mentioned unions in his speech today. There will be tons of other forums for labor and in general. Besides, it's still a year until the primaries.

[blm]

84. I think his tactic is to be a 'different' Democrat. I'm not crazy about it, and have to hope

that it is performance art by him for campaign purposes and employed as a way to win the WH, and should he prevail he will draw upon his more progressive character to govern in the WH.

[sandnsea]

112. He should be a Clinton Democrat???

I think he wants to be what we all consider a normal Democrat, but that the public doesn't know exists anymore. I think he's addressing the voter who thinks there's not a dimes worth of difference between the corporate Repub and the corporate Dem. Are we denying the Clinton wing now???

[blm]

114. You missed what I mean. I think he's talking TOO much like a Clinton Dem right now.

When you say you're different and want to appeal to those disaffected by the normal Dem party (the corpmedia version) that is going against the normal Democrat who is NONE of those things the corpmedia has claimed they are for so many years. We are NOT weak on security or hostile to religion.

I have said I hope he relies on his TRUER progressive character from his first book if he gets into office, and not the careful and reifying politician that I have heard more than once this past year and in his last book.

I prefer the real Obama I have seen over the reifying Obama which is TOO much like Clinton for me to feel comfortable.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/2/3/121715/7260

[sandnsea]

118. I don't hear that at all

Openly discussing the perceptions people have of the Democratic Party isn't conceding that the perceptions are true. I guess we'll just have to disagree.

One thing though, after the anti-Catholic remarks by those bloggers, I don't know how you can seriously say there aren't Democrats who are hostile to religion.

[blm]

119. Certainly not hostile to religion AS A PARTY. Individuals, yes, but many GOPs are hostile to

Catholics way more than a few Dem bloggers are. The RevMoon, fundamentalist Baptists and Bob Jonesers come to mind.

[sandnsea]

122. But that's the perception

Is he not supposed to say anything about it?? How do you change the perception if you don't talk about the perception? That's all I've heard him do. The funny thing is, every time he mentions religion, the Dems-that-don't-hate-religion freak out proving that there actually is a loud faction in this party that hates religion. We have people in this party who are just as ugly as any Bob Jonesers are. In any event, I don't think that's a large part of his campaign, he didn't even mention it today.

[blm]

127. You don't change perception by validating it when it isn't true.

.

[sandnsea]

135. I think you misunderstand

for one.

"In other words, if we don't reach out to evangelical Christians and other religious Americans and tell them what we stand for, Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons will continue to hold sway."

Either Democrats fill the religious gap with our values, or the nutballs will. That's what he's saying.

And again, I think you're being just a bit disingenuous saying there isn't a religion problem with some Democrats. I don't like 'under God' in the Pledge, I prefer candidates that don't harp on God all the time. I also don't like the nasty comments about people's faith, I know how important it is to people. I believe the founders did set this country up to bring the values informed by their faith into the public square and there's nothing wrong with saying so. So it is a problem of the Democratic Party because we're seeking to consider the rights of all people and that's all I think Obama is speaking to. I think he's speaking to it in a much more honest way than Hillary did, because he's willing to name the Falwells and Robertsons and I don't think she ever did.

[blm]

138. Some Dems hostile to religion is still alot fewer than most fundamentalist GOPs hostile to

Catholicism. It's just not talked about. And Dem lawmakers don't go around pushing it as a 'perception' the way GOPs go around pushing the Dems are hoostile to religion perception.

[sandnsea]

141. But Obama does

I just gave you one quote where he does. So maybe it would be helpful to recognize the way he is approaching the misperception problems, than to assume he is simply repeating the right wing spin. It's just a way of talking so that more people can hear. Hopefully this will lead people to put the knives down and "our better angels" can be summoned and we can come together to turn this country around. I think he confronts the problems directly, but focuses more on where we need to go and how we get there. That's always the way out of an abusive situation and that's clearly where the people in this country are at.

[blm]

148. That could possibly be, but it certainly doesn't have to sit well with those

who have been fighting the media-driven perception battles for over 12 years. FAIR and MWO and MediaMatters have only been able to get so far. I hope you can see that it DOES hurt that some would see that the only way out is by giving in.

[sandnsea]

151. Whatever

Nobody said anything about giving in to anything. I don't know why you've chosen to see him this way, but that's certainly your choice.

And there you go again with your "those of us" condescension as if nobody else is interested in media lies and distortions. Maybe if you had a more inclusive attitude, you'd have gotten further by now. Maybe nobody understands what the hell you're talking about because of the language you choose to use, which is why they DO understand Obama. He uses language people understand to describe the exact same problem, but also provides a way out. A forest fire is NEVER put out by fighting the main blaze alone.

[blm]

194. If someone posted 'those of us' in reference to their priority on environmental issues

I would not be offended. Or for those posters who are advocates on abortion rights, or death penalty, or labor issues. I wouldn't get offended by anyone expressing how and why they have keyed or focused on an issue - I'm glad they are and glad they are hear to say so.

Sorry I don't express myself as eloquently as a few others do here - I think I've made no bones about being an awkward writer who just comes out and says it as I see it, but, with proper perspective and consideration of a person's entire record I see it coming down to a matter of posters' priorities, not superiorities.

[Imagevision]

182. Obama is talking Obama, Bill is givinhg Hillary cue's based on Obama's moves...

Barrack totally the real deal!!!

[dave420]

63. Got policies?

That's more important than how well he shakes hands. I wonder where he stands on Israel. If it's not "stop giving them money and treat them like any other country", then he doesn't have what it takes to restore American respect around the world, regardless of everything else he does.

[mtnsnake]

64. Yeah. Go here:

http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?chamber=Senate&party=All&x=44&y=12

[DebJ]

68. great site! thanks. n/t

[mtnsnake]

107. Your welcome. nt

[snowbear]

239. Kewl site..

Thank U ~~~

[Barack_America]

93. #1 in Medical Research Funding...

Considering that's the source of my financial and intellectual livelihood, he's already the clear choice for me!

It is a great site, thanks.

[mtnsnake]

109. Glad the site is beneficial to you

It's always rewarding in more ways than one when something like this applies to what we do on a personal scale. Glad you like the site. I think I got it initially from someone who posted a link to it here on DU a long time ago.

[Jim Sagle]

172. If THAT'S his position on Israel, then he's dead to me.

(And BTW, I'm quite sure that's NOT his position.)

The single-issue Palestine Firsters need to GET IT THROUGH THEIR THICK SKULLS that their approach would SINK the Democrats.

[goclark]

67. I love the way he told the crowd " I love You" at the end nt

[mtnsnake]

71. That was awesome

and part of why it was so awesome is because he does it so naturally. He comes off as nothing but sincere.

I wonder if that line will become a regular closing line of his when he gives a major speech.

[goclark]

75. It would be a signal to the new generation

that they are loved instead of forgotten and hated.

[PresidentObama]

69. He's in a great place right now.

And whether they know anything about him yet or not, Americans who see him speak think he's a natural and is very much what America needs in a leader. I'm sure we'll get into qualification and all that, but for right now he's saying all that needs to be said and vowing to do all that needs to be done. I'm very impressed by Senator Obama, and hope the polls that will surely come out soon show after his announcement that he'll be a real serious contender and will provide those of you who don't want Hillary to get the nomination with another serious choice (Edwards being the other of three top frontrunners)

[scarletwoman]

73. Sounds like he "has what it takes" to be Miss Congeniality. Not a word in your post about policy

positions.

...he is just so damn likable.

Yeah, they said that about GW Bush, too.

Sorry, I'll try to bite my tongue better in the future and stay out of Obama threads. But reading gushing drivel like "...he is COOL" presented as a basis for supporting a presidential candidate just makes me ill.

Sorry again. I'll shut up now.

sw

[PresidentObama]

74. The line to compare Obama and Bush is very thin.

I think you're missing the point about Obama. Yes, he is likable. And yes, he says a lot of great things in ways other Senators and leaders can't. But he's got a remarkable life story of working to help others, and committing to helping the common good of others. He is one of the most unselfish and caring Presidential candidates I've ever seen. And I understand the skeptics wondering if he's qualified enough, but I also know looking at his life he has a history of working for the best of others and has shown the kind of leadership abilities we so desperately need in this moment in time. It's time to unite, and not divide. It's time to have a President that sends a message to the world we're their friend, and we aren't here to spread pain and destruction but peace and hope.

I think Barack Obama may be that leader. My two candidates are former VP Al Gore and General Wesley Clark, but if neither get into this race I'll gladly support Senator Obama for everything he stands for and for everything I think he could bring to the White House that is lacking under this Administration.

[goclark]

78. Everything that you mentioned I have taken as a given

in my mind,for so long, that I didn't mention all of his leadership qualities.

[scarletwoman]

81. I wasn't comparing Obama with Bush, just comparing what's said about them. (nt)

[thoughtcrime1984]

76. Did you really think he would go in-depth into policy today?

This was his ceremonious entrance into the campaign, the substance in his speeches are forthcoming. Jeesh, did I miss the memo that the Primaries are beginning tomorrow? I keep hearing parrots chanting "No meat, no substance". One of them looking distinctly like Al Sharpton.

[Barack_America]

77. And Bush was elected twice...

Well, technically only once, but likeability was a big factor in his election.

In the end, it comes down to either a Dem or a Repub as President. Would I take a Dem President who was elected only because he's likeable? Hell yes! Especially considering the alternative...

[mtnsnake]

85. No problem. Look, it takes a combination

Him being "cool" is only part of it, but an important part. For those who don't think personality and charisma are extremely vital ingredients that will help Democrats to winning the presidency today, then I guess some will think that Bill Clinton's personality and charm had little to do with his two wins. On the contrary, it had very much to do with his success. He also went on to become a fine president.

I'm hoping the same for Obama. Personally, I just love how he comes off. He inspires the hell out of me. He gives me confidence that a Democrat will win in 2008 if he's that Democrat who wins the Primary, and he gives me the same amount of confidence that he'll follow up by becoming a great leader.

The thread wasn't meant to be about policy, but if you're looking for policy, go here and you can link from there to the way in which he votes on all the issues: http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?chamber=Senate&party=All&x=44&y=12

[Cameron27]

100. Good site mtnsnake

but they need to update the health insurance data, unless I missed it.

Obama's for universal health care within 6 years...yes?

[thoughtcrime1984]

103. Yes, he has said that, and reiterated that today.

[Cameron27]

105. Thanks :-)

I missed his announcement today, but I think he's one of our best candidates.

[mtnsnake]

106. I got the link from someone else on DU some time ago.

Glad you like it.

[Cameron27]

136. Yes, and my bad,

I don't know why I was looking for info on universal health care on that site:dunce:

[BL611]

94. I pretty much addressed this

in post #91...

[cadmium]

108. I like him.

I have not been 100% on board with all his statements all the time and on this thread I am not interested in specifics. Picture him as president and the world seriously changes for the better. He must have many incestuous inside the beltway people nervous already.

[Bobbie Jo]

116. I like him....a lot! n/t

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

128. Barack Obama has charisma

That's the toughest feature of any candidate running for political office, and it can't be taught. Obama has it in spades.

[benny05]

133. He has a contagious smile

But I don't consider him to have more charisma than John Edwards. I've seen Edwards work a room pretty good.

Have you met Obama?

[cadmium]

155. I like him in general -- despite his

charisma. In general I distrust people with obvious charisma and hype. I am not dogmatic about it. It's early -- I like most of what I have seen of him so far.

[snowbear]

134. I can't wait until "Illinoisprogressive" drops in with a report!!

The luckyduck was there and hasn't popped in yet to tell us all about it..

[SteveM]

137. He might get mud in his face over gun control.

Please note the following: www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/17/politics/main2369157.shtml
You might like a topic like this to remain in the gungeon, but it won't go away. ("It will certainly be talked about. You can take that to the bank." -- Wayne La Pierre, NRA.) Supporters of Obama (and other Dems.) need to engage their candidate NOW (if they can't engage the topic here) so that he can deal with this issue when (not if) it arises; Obama may need a better position fast to defend himself against another DEMOCRAT, let alone a GOPer in the general election.

[Barack_America]

139. Key Quote from that Article

"He always wants to understand an issue and think it through," said Roberta Lynch, deputy director for Council 31 of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. "You have to make your case no matter who you are."

As the article points out, his more contentious votes were always cast with consideration of the precedents they would set. Hmmm, an intelligent, diligent legislator...sounds good to me!

[SteveM]

150. Sounds good to me, too. But he may be wrong, nonetheless.

I should think a good public servant would hold these values at a minimum. But I think his advocacy of a general ban of all semi-automatic guns is not only wrong, but will trip him up. More importantly, he should be engaged on this topic by his supporters. He'll have trouble with this one, if recent history is any indication. Thank you for communication.

[bling bling]

143. He'll come out of that one with no problem.

The NRA can't accuse Obama of trying to take anybody's guns away. They get their undies in a wad at every Democratic candidate and I think people just aren't going to make this their one-issue vote nor do I think abortion is going to be the thing that sways voters one way or another. I think people will be paying attention to the issues related to jobs and the economy, health insurance, protecting ourselves from terrorist attacks, and ending the war.

The article didn't seem too damning. It sounded like the author was making a big whoopdiedoo over nothing.

"Obama regularly supported gun-control measures, including a ban on semiautomatic "assault weapons" and a limit on handgun purchases to one a month."

I don't the the swing voters are going to worry about the fact they can only purchase non-assault weapons or only one gun per month.



"He also opposed letting people use a self-defense argument if charged with violating local handgun bans by using weapons in their homes. The bill was a reaction to a Chicago-area man who, after shooting an intruder, was charged with a handgun violation."

So he's saying that people can't use BANNED WEAPONS at home for any reason. I would guess he would also hold the position that one can't use BANNED weapons at the workplace or to rob a bank, either. Doesn't sound too damning. Even though the NRA has and will frame it as Obama is against self-defense. The NRA does what the NRA does. I hope by now people are starting to realize the NRA is a bunch of lobbyists who are nothing more than a bunch of radical alarmists. Those people who get scared by the NRA crying wolf again are people who wouldn't vote for a Democrat anyway.



"It's bad politics to be on the wrong side of the Second Amendment come election time," said Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association. "It will certainly be talked about. You can take that to the bank."

On the other hand, Obama parted company with gun control advocates when he backed a measure to let retired police officers and military police carry concealed weapons."

I don't think too many people will fall for it if the NRA tries to sell Obama as wanting to take their guns away. Again, those who do fall for it weren't going to vote Dem anyway.

[benEzra]

233. Didn't work that way in 1994...

The NRA can't accuse Obama of trying to take anybody's guns away. They get their undies in a wad at every Democratic candidate and I think people just aren't going to make this their one-issue vote nor do I think abortion is going to be the thing that sways voters one way or another. I think people will be paying attention to the issues related to jobs and the economy, health insurance, protecting ourselves from terrorist attacks, and ending the war.

The article didn't seem too damning. It sounded like the author was making a big whoopdiedoo over nothing.

"Obama regularly supported gun-control measures, including a ban on semiautomatic "assault weapons" and a limit on handgun purchases to one a month."

I don't the the swing voters are going to worry about the fact they can only purchase non-assault weapons or only one gun per month.

Didn't work out that way in 1994.

An "assault weapon" is a non-automatic civilian gun that holds more than 10 rounds (5 for shotguns), or that has certain styling features that Republican Sarah Brady doesn't like--most notably a rifle stock with a protruding handgrip.

Merely raising the price on over-10-round pistol magazines, and requiring that newly manufactured rifles with protruding handgrips couldn't have screw-on muzzle brakes (pin-ons were OK), cost at LEAST 20 House seats in 1994, and lost the House AND the Senate. Care to speculate on what the political cost of a much more draconian, California-style magazine and handgrip ban would be?

AR-15's and such are among the most popular civilian rifles in America, and there are probably twice as many Americans who own "black rifles" and over-10-round guns as there are hunters (only 1 in 5 gun owners is a hunter, FWIW). At least since the early 1990's, the "assault weapon" issue IS the gun issue; hunting guns are irrelevant.

Mr. Obama needs to disavow the "assault weapon" bait-and-switch. Soon. Alienating a sizeable portion of the electorate over guns that are almost never used in crimes would be quixotic, when the are genuinely important issues on the table.

[mtnsnake]

144. The ones who have to worry the most about those issues are Republicans

....not Democrats.

It's a fact that the majority of Americans share the same sentiments as Obama and most other Democrats when it comes to freedom of choice for women and for some form of gun control, such as his support for banning semiautomaticassault weapons.

Obama will handle himself just fine when those issues surface.

[SteveM]

149. Actually, he supports prohibiting the possession and sale of ALL semi-automatic guns.

Including granddad's old Browning duck gun; your cousin's .22 plinker; and the semi-automatic handguns held by tens of millions of Americans for home defense and shooting sports. This is a massive (proposed) ban. How would he effect such a prohibitionist scheme and how would even slender voting blocs in Montana, New Mexico, Florida and other states (any of which would have given Gore the victory in 2000)react in a close general election? I bring the subject up with good will because the 2008 election may be very close.

[seasat]

159. I looked it up and it's not exactly his position.

The gun control mentioned in the CBS article comes from the 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test. I couldn't find the 1998 test online but the 2002 test has a check box under gun control and it states:

"Ban the sale or transfer of semi-automatic guns, except those used for hunting."

While I don't agree with that position, it is not a total ban on semi automatic weapons. It provides exceptions for the the Browning shotgun and the 22 rifle if they are classified as a hunting weapon. This position is from 1998 and I imagine he has changed some of his positions from 9 years ago when he was in the Illinois senate.

[SteveM]

238. No, he advocates banning the sale or transfer of ALL semi-autos.

I can see why you couldn't find the 1998 "...Policy Awareness Test" -- it took me 2 hours! Anyway, it has NO qualifier as to hunting weapons: "a) Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons" to which Obama indicated/checked support. See: http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?old-true&can_id=BS030017&npatform_id=69#7 This is what I mean by engaging your candidate early to clean up his/her positions. If the candidate does not clean it up the GOP will.

[bling bling]

160. Do you have any link about that?

I would like to see his position on that from the source you got it from. I just like to see the whole picture from a credible source before I take an anonymous source's word for it. Nothing personal.

[SteveM]

236. No offense taken. Sorry for the delay. You won't like this.

The 1998 Illinois Legislative National Political Awareness Test, July 2, 1998 asks the following under the heading Gun Issues: "Indicate which principles you support (if any) concerning gun issues.
a) B an the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons." Obama indicated support. There is no qualifier as to hunting, target or other use. See: http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?old=true&can_id=BS030017&npatform_id=69#7 A poster just above you mentioned a later Awareness Test which qualified guns as to hunting. This earlier Test DOES NOT have that qualifier. It took me two hours of intensive search to find this site.

[benEzra]

232. Only half of gun owners are repubs...the other half are Dems and indies. (n/t)

[depakid]

140. "this guy simply will not screw up.."

He's already screwed up half a dozen times, and I fully expect that his lack of experience and judgment will trip him up again.... and again.

[thoughtcrime1984]

146. Care to elaborate?

.

[depakid]

153. People must have short memories

Criticizing the Alito filibuster when he ought to have been rallying the troops (this from a con law professor).

Openly criticising the party chairman about a true statement that he made re: Republicans.

Sticking his nose into the Connecticut primary to support Lieberman.

Cozying up to and legitimizing fundamentalists who are never going to vote for him- or support the ideas he advocates.

Those are four instances. Given time, I could probably cite at least half a dozen more.

The pattern seems to be that he doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut, and I predict that he's going to step into a big pile of shit one day because of it. Wait and see.

[mtnsnake]

147. Name those "half a dozen times" where he screwed up

and how he got tripped up again and again.

[saltpoint]

142. My objection to Obama has to do with his command of language.

He's simply too gifted an orator to be a public servant.

We've had the benefit of 6 consistent years now of George W. Bush's merciless butchering of the English language, and goddammit, we're USED to it. Why change?

Obama's campaign seeks to ratchet up the standard of public service by elevating its comunicative component a thousand-fold.

We're just not ready for it.

_____

Obama's address in Boston in 2004 was among the 4 or 5 very best addresses I've ever heard. Absolutely tremendous and worthy of every consideration.

[mtnsnake]

158. Yikes, Old Crusoe, when I first read that, I thought you were serious!

You had me wondering for a minute!

[saltpoint]

163. Hi, mtnsnake. I thought I'd better type that line to divide the

first, facetious part from the bottom, where I praise his address in 2004 in Boston.

I have only this evening watched on C-Span the repeat of Senator Obama's announcement speech today in Springfield.

It left me wondering if Lincoln had fared as well. The address was way better than Americans are often used to hearing, rising at several key points to the Boston level. As C-Span's cameras swept the crowd -- the huge crowd -- I saw faces of all colors and ages, all of them with their attention turned toward Barack Obama. I didn't get "superficial rockstar celebrity" from this footage; I got "We're going to transform American public life." If that isn't what democracy is about, I don't know what is.

Obama will be the target of some of the nastiest criticism and outright slander in the coming months. I hope he survives it. I envied those folks in Springfield today, cold weather and all. Quite possibly they heard the announcement speech of our next president.

[mtnsnake]

164. Hi, OC. I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw that line at the bottom

of your initial post. lol

Nice post, btw, of how you viewed his announcement. I couldn't agree more. It'll be interesting seeing how he handles being the target of nasty criticism, as you say, in the near future.

Anyway, we all should be in for a nice ride.

[saltpoint]

166. Yes. Any mention these days of Bush or Cheney and I lunge for the

radio dial to tune it out, to stem their torrent of bullshit.

But with Obama's gift of words, I'll listen.

As we speak here in cyberspace, Sam Brownback is building the rightwing scaffolding for his presidential campaign. Imagine someone like Brownback on that scaffolding, and a wind-like force like Obama, swirling around him from all directions.

Even McCain (who lately looks like an extra in one of those back-from-the-dead zombie pictures) might have cause to pause. If McCain gets the GOP nomination, and Obama were to get ours, I think Obama mops the floor with McCain in that first debate. On points, passion, and presentation.

Same for Rudy and Mitt. And speaking of zombies, his recent photos make me think Romney is eerily Nixonesque. There's a cadaver-like quality to him. It's like he's in black and white and the rest of the world is in color. Creepy.

[beaconess]

165. I LOVE your description!

I didn't get "superficial rockstar celebrity" from this footage; I got "We're going to transform American public life."

Dead on!

[saltpoint]

169. Hi, beaconess. It looked from the coverage as if many school-aged

children were there, and I found myself hoping their parents had yanked them from classes to attend, or that their teachers decided to make it a field trip.

If either of those two theories are true, it looks to me like there's some damned good parenting and teaching going on in Illinois.

And Senator Obama was a knockout.

[beaconess]

183. Pssst - It was Saturday . . .

Sorry - I couldn't resist.

Seriously, though - I agree with you (except with the yanking out of school on a Saturday part).

:spank:

[saltpoint]

185. Saturday!? What's that got to do with it!? Why, back in my day...

Jesus.

Maybe I should splurge and get a calendar, huh?

(Thanks. Good catch.)

[beaconess]

186. They just don't make kids like they used to . . .

:toast:

[saltpoint]

193. LOL!

:toast:

[AtomicKitten]

152. On Washington Journal early this AM

- the first question was about Obama. The Republicans had no comment about experience or race. No, they accused him of being a Muslim, a Roman Catholic, an Islamic fundamentalist. They hammered his middle name.

Reminiscent of the manipulative, petty, uninformed BS lobbed here at DU.

Obama is an exceptional candidate that quickens hope in Americans, and folks would be hard-pressed to deny that. But watch them try. Wingnuts come in all kinds of political persuasions.

[skipos]

157. The little things that bum me out about Obama are

1. he is a senator. There is a reason only three of them have become president since Lincoln: they are much easier to slime than governors.

2. he comes from a state that we easily win. We need all the electoral votes we can get. If Gore, Lieberman, Kerry or Edwards were from Ohio or Florida, they'd be sitting in the Whitehouse right now. We need all the states we can get, and Obama doesn't guarantee that he will flip a red state.

I realize that he doesn't have a ton of experience, but I feel his heart is in the right place, he is intelligent and thoughtful. I have yet to see a correlation between experience and the success of a President.

I do think his VP should come with a lot of experience... Richardson perhaps?

[Odin2005]

162. I am officially sold on Obama!!!

GO OBAMA!!!

[jefferson_dem]

167. Excellent!

:toast:

[ShortnFiery]

235. Me too!

IMO, he's the next Jack Kennedy, only perhaps, BETTER! :-)

[fuzzyball]

168. Why is then Barack H. Obama 20 points behind in polls?

If he is so "natural" as you say then he should
soon be in the lead. Only time will tell.

[snowbear]

173. According to the political pundits today... it's b'cas everyone knows the name "Clinton"..

And no one (aside from the handful of people like us on political blogs) are paying attention yet..

If you don't know diddly-squat about Vilsack, Richardson, Obama, etc... and you're polled, you'd tend to recognize the name "Clinton" when they get to it..

The first real debate isn't until April..

[Imagevision]

177. Obama 20 points behind in polls? there's 30 months to election, plenty of time for Obama to win

piece of cake - cakewalk!

[fuzzyball]

201. Hillary Rodham Clinton is GAINING in money, poll numbers, and

media worship. No way Barack Hussein Obama is going to catch up.

[NYCGirl]

190. Same reason Joe Lieberman was 20 points ahead about this time in the

2004 election. People have heard of her.

[fuzzyball]

200. The Lieberman argument is getting a little worn out.....because

Joementum was not a nationwide phenom, he was not a woman,
he was not married to the most successful democrat since FDR,
and he puts you to sleep when speaking. Hillary has charisma
to spare. And she has the smoothest politician that ever lived,
Mr President Clinton by her side. OTOH I can't even recall Joe's
wife's name.

[NYCGirl]

202. He was the VP candidate in 2000. Nationwide phenomena flame out —

and I don't base my vote on who someone is married to. If being a woman and married to someone was a good criteria, Elizabeth Dole would have had a better chance with the GOP.

Edited to add: Facts never wear out.

[amandabeech]

171. I'm surprised that he's not at the "State of Black America" convention

today in Hampton, Va.

I've watched a little, and his absence has been noted.

[snowbear]

174. So....

You want him to zip from Springfield, Illinois... then to his engagement in Iowa tonight... and still make it to a gig in Virginia?

[amandabeech]

175. Those at the convention noted that their event had been planned

well in advance, and wondered why this weekend was the one Obama chose for his announcement.

I'm sure he has a response.

I don't want him to go anywhere.

But I think that there were those at the convention who did.

African-Americans comprise a large percentage of the Democratic base. This was a gathering of leaders, and I'm surprised that no candidates were there.

I'm surprised that no one else posted this item.

[snowbear]

179. Okey then..

"I don't want him to go anywhere"

.....

[amandabeech]

203. I don't have a favorite candidate at this time,

and I do not pay too much attention to the daily schedules of the candidates, but the comments at this particular event left me with some questions.

Some of the panelists, however, offered somewhat ambiguous comments that, considering the audience reaction, were construed as slights toward Sen. Obama. I'm finding it hard to put into words, but it left me surprised.

[beaconess]

191. This was a gathering of BLACK leaders - I don't think there were any whites on the panels

And having candidates there would have changed the whole nature of the event and would have turned it into a campaign rally. Considering there are about 20 candidates running, it would have been a mess.

Please don't assume that Barack Obama is obligated to attend every event where more than 7 black people are gathered. He doesn't need that kind of pressure and I don't believe that black folk have such unreasonable expectations of him. He needs to be where he needs to be, not running around trying to speak at every black event. Black folks have a head start in getting to know him - he needs to be in Iowa and New Hampshire introducing himself to people there.

[amandabeech]

204. Thanks for the informative comments.

I can really *see* your comments about the campaign rally!

I was, however, surprised at the comments that some panelists made. The comments were purposefully ambiguous, and I'm not sure that I got their true meaning, although the audience reaction helped. I hope that I'm wrong, but there seemed to be questions about how Sen. Obama fits into the civil rights movement tradition, if that makes any sense.

[beaconess]

220. I didn't see those comments, but it's certainly possible that some people have questions about him

Despite being famous, he's not well-known, but that will change. And I think he will help to show all people - black and white - that blacks come in all types and backgrounds. We didn't all spring from the civil rights movement tradition - and the further removed we become in time from the civil rights movement, the more of us will fall into the category. Nothing wrong with it.

Your observations are really interesting and I'd like to hear more about how you see this.

[beaconess]

187. First, do you know if he was invited?

Second, if he was invited, they would have had to invite all of the other candidates in order not to appear to be giving one candidate a free ride.

Third, does he have to go to every discussion about black people that's held over the next year and a half? If so, that's going to be a big problem and put him at a real disadvantage with the other candidates, since they'll be free to continue campaigning while Obama's out having to do all the black people stuff.

I think most black folk understood why he wasn't there and that he needed to be exactly where he was yesterday.

[amandabeech]

216. Perhaps I haven't been clear.

It was the statements made by some of the panelists that gave me pause.

I didn't think about Obama's absence, or the absence of any of the other candidates, until it came up in the panel discussions.

I would not expect Sen. Obama to be at every African American gathering any more than I would the other candidates. However, some of those speaking at this gathering may have felt differently about this particular event. As I have said above, it is difficult for me to explain their comments and my reaction. I really didn't know quite how to interpret their comments and did not have much context for the event, but others here have been very helpful on that score.

[EffieBlack]

189. Correction: That was the "State of the Black Union" forum

not "State of Black America," which is the report the National Urban League has published annually for the last 30 years analyzing the conditions of blacks in America. Tavis Smiley's event is the State of the Black Union, a town hall forum based upon his book, "The Covenant."

C-Span made a mistake in its graphic.

http://www.nul.org/thestateofblackamerica.html

[SaveElmer]

176. He has the It factor going for him...

No doubt...

I just hope if he gets the nod he will be ready for the shit storm from the right wing sleaze machine that will be coming his way...it has taken down many...

[Imagevision]

178. Obama is a natural, he's exactly what I want as my president!

[Aviation Pro]

188. We deserve better than telegenic, charasmatic and cool....

...we deserve proven competence.

Here's proven competence image:

[beaconess]

195. If and when Webb decides to run for president, I'm sure he'll appreciate your support

but in the meantime . . .

[mtnsnake]

197. We also deserve to have someone representing us who can WIN in 2008. nt

[jonnyblitz]

192. yes, anbody who claims Joe Lieberman as his political mentor

is fine by me! :sarcasm:

[ripple]

205. Do you have a link or quote to back your assertion?

Given that Obama's position on a number of issues stands in direct contrast to Lieberman's stated positions, I think it's safe to assume he doesn't consider Lieberman much of a mentor. I have read, however, that Obama had deep respect and admiration for the late Paul Wellstone.

[jonnyblitz]

207. I live in CT. it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE and MUCH

DISCUSSED here at DU at the time prior to the CT DEM primary last August when he came out in support of Lieberman against Lamont that he said this! If you don't believe me I don't care but if you google "Lieberman is Obama's mentor" or some variety of that or "Obama endorses Lieberman" just read what comes up. It was even brought up on Huffington Post a few weeks back about him saying this.

[ripple]

231. The operative phrase being PRIOR to the democratic primary

Virtually all congressional dems supported Lieberman prior to the primary, as he was the democratic incumbent. Like virtually every other democrat, Obama supported Lamont once he won the primary. His support of Lieberman doesn't make Lieberman his mentor, any more than Lieberman is a mentor for all of the other dems who supported him prior to his primary loss.

Yes, I have heard this accusation made here before, but it has also turned out to be unfounded. Context is everything.

[mtnsnake]

208. If that's the best dirt anyone can dig up on Obama, then he has little to worry about

I guess it just goes to show what an independent thinker Obama is, considering he and "his mentor" vociferously disagree on the Iraq War, while most of the other heavyweight candidates voted along with Holy Joe to support the IWR, one of them even co-sponsoring the damn thing along with Holy Joe on the same war committee!

[Forkboy]

196. This isn't meant as an attack on you at all

But I'm struck by how so much of what you mention makes him electable is basically the superficial stuff.While the things you mention are helpful there's zero policy substance mentioned at all.I don't vote for people based on how good they mingle and kiss and hug,no matter how good they are at it.

[mtnsnake]

198. Of course policy is important, but if you're not electable to begin with, then it's for naught.

To be electable it takes a combination of things for sure, such as "policy substance" that you refer to.

I believe, that besides being so charismatic, Obama also has plenty of policy substance to go along. All you have to do to see that is do some research on what he did before he became a Senator or even read one of his books.

I'm just saying the guy is a natural when it comes to interacting with people and CONNECTING. To me it's not just important to be like that, it's vital.

[Forkboy]

199. That's true,and he definately has charisma

One thing he has going for him in my opinion is that he was against the war from the start.If Hillary is/may be/will be his biggest challenger than I think this favors him a lot.Hillary will be dogged by her vote all through the campaign,and she's very vulnerable on this issue.

[Tellurian]

209. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news... but I won't vote for him!

He just doesn't impress me as knowledgeable enough on the subject, especially foreign policy.
OBama is an Apprentice in Training afaic..

These are very difficult times. If OBama was under consideration for the presidency in 00', I might have considered his candidacy. I've thought long and hard about his eligibility to resolve the issues we now face and today I give him a :thumbsdown: NOT ready for Prime Time Vote.

I don't want a "fresh" face...I want a WAR HORSE!

[OneGrassRoot]

211. Interesting twist on a positive regarding his name....

After his speech yesterday, the talking heads were saying how his name being of Middle Eastern origin would be a deterrent for the average American.

That got me to thinking (and it may already have been discussed repeatedly here...my apologies ahead of time if so)....

If Obama's camp plays it right, they could turn the fear that's been force fed to Americans since 9/11 into seeing Obama in a new light. Going along with the other positives he brings the table, the fact that the American electorate would choose him may be viewed as a plus to the rest of the world, especially the Muslim world. In other words, take this fear that many people have of, "Oh, the Muslims hate us and want to kill us because of everything we stand for," to "With this guy, he represents us in ways we want as Americans, yet also is a potential link to start healing how we're viewed in the Arab world."

I know, I know. It'll take a lot more than a simple figurehead to heal things, as there are so many levels to the hatred (mutual), but it may be a way to position him and the value of his name in a positive light, as opposed to his name being positioned (by repugs) as a way to foster MORE fear within the American public.

[Tellurian]

213. The Christians will play that theme as Muslim ownership of the US

I've already received a dvd from a former asst Director to the CiA under the Reagan Adm, stating unequivocally, there is a Christian concerted effort to eradicate a muslim presence within the US. You may not be aware of it, but it is real and ongoing as we speak. They will never allow a muslim or the hint of one like OBama to be president..

[OneGrassRoot]

215. Wasn't aware, though certainly not surprised

I'm not sure which is more dangerous to our democracy: corporate influence or fundamentalist religious influence. Probably equal. Ughhhhh..............

[Tellurian]

219. The name of the dvd is "The Siege of Civilization"

wasn't at all what i thought it would be when I ordered it!

Ck out Amazon..

[FrenchieCat]

212. I like Obama a great deal, and he certainly is a natural.....

part politician, part preacher in the way that he speaks......but not too much of either....making him a credible statesman.

And so I say, Obama is just a wonderful orator!

Whether he has what it takes to give confidence to voters that he would be able to "handle" the times that we are living in, remains to be seen.....and that will be determined within the next months ahead.

If Wes Clark doesn't enter the frey (which I think he should), then Obama is certainly at the top of my list in getting my support. He appears to have already demonstrated a certain amount of good judgment...which for the office of the Presidency, is key, IMO.

[Tellurian]

214. Or if OBama tells us what we want to hear..

in a charismatic way we all believe. He is the antithesis of Bush the "clumsy" who stumbles through promising a point to his words and still delivers no more than rhetorical cliches cloaked in fantasy and broken promises.

[jen4clark]

217. Obama seems like a good guy

I just wish he would fulfill his term in the Senate, what with our brand new very slim majority and all. He has plenty of time to run for President. I don't think he has the necessary diplomatic experience to lead our country right now.

[Tellurian]

218. You said a mouthful there my friend..

If he were to lead the country in peaceful times I wouldn't be quite so hesitant. What is that passage in Revelations...
There will be seven years of war and a man shall rise speaking peace and he shall be a charismatic leader that all shall fall unto him..and behind him shall be death? Or some such.. well, that passage sticks in my mind moreso now than ever..

[beaconess]

223. If he doesn't win, he'll keep his Senate seat - he's not up for reelection until 2010

[Dean Martin]

221. The best candidate EVER

I was only 4 years old when JFK was assassinated, so I don't remember him. But as I've said before, Obama is the best person for president I've ever seen in my lifetime. And when I study previous presidents historically, I still like Obama better than any of them I can think of.

I believe we finally have a politician that is fully honest. Obama leaves no hidden skeletons behind for anyone to dig for, he puts it all out front so folks can just deal with it. He has no hidden agendas, no ulterior motives. He's the best hope our nation has.

[mtnsnake]

226. I'm with you, Deano

He's the best hope our nation has

That he is.

[Release The Hounds]

224. Sure,

But is he the kind of guy you want to have a beer with?

:sarcasm:

[Dean Martin]

227. I don't drink.

That sounds funny coming from Dean Martin, doesn't it?

[burrowowl]

228. And a bit DLC!

I really don't consider DLCers 'real" Democrats'. Richardson has a better resume and he is on the edge of being a Democrat, but I would prefer him to Obama who is a bit too DLCer Hillaryesque for me. But, if he is nominated I will vote for him. MLK he is NOT!

[bling bling]

229. Please provide a link that Obama is DLC. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

237. how about a piece indicating that he's not DLC?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14495

[thoughtcrime1984]

230. First I've ever heard of that.

edited- better judgment wins out. He is not DLC.

[snowbear]

240. Yooo Hoo..

Looks like we're still waiting on burrowowl's linkage..

[Dammit Ann]

241. COOL... exactly.

I wasn't a huge fan until I saw him announce, now I am hooked.

[kentuck]

242. I hate to offer a dissenting opinion....

But, I think the Repubs could not pick a better Democrat to run for their purposes. Obama has "trap" written all over him. The Republicans will convince two-thirds of America that he is the brother of Osama bin Laden. In an enlightened America, Obama might be elected. We are not an enlightened nation. We are a nation of bigots and ignoramuses.

When the Republicans start cheering our candidates, that should raise a red flag. Obama has about as much chance of winning the Presidency as Saddam Hussein - and he is dead.

With that said, Obama is indeed bright, charismatic, and "cool". But that is just enough to get him thru the Democratic primary process...maybe.

[Apollo11]

243. GORE - OBAMA 2008

Then Barack Obama will be well-placed to win the Presidency in 2016.


Let's all find ways to show our support for Al Gore! :patriot:

Read Rolling Stone magazine: WHY GORE SHOULD RUN -- AND HOW HE CAN WIN
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13248532/why_gore_should_run__and_how_he_can_win

Get ready for Al Gore's next book - The Assault on Reason - out in May!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/16/AR2006091600877.html

Visit the following websites:
www.algore.com
www.algore.org
www.draftgore.com - Sign the petition! :)

:kick: