Is America waiting for a hero?

[Stinky The Clown]

Last night, on his personal ego-fest, Chris Matthews ended the show by speculating that America is waiting for a hero. This was said in the context of the shifting polls regarding the declared candidates, the dramatic shift of both D and R numbers in just one month: Hillary now trailing Obama and Rudy now leading McCain.

His point - and the issue on which I'm seeking duscussion in this thread - is that none of the current candidates particularly excite the country. Not that they don't have supporters. They surely do. They all have strong supporters. What they all lack, he speculated, is deep support.

I would agree. Without talking of any particular candidate, they all seem to have support that is a mile wide and an inch deep. Black, female, Hispanic, Mormon, Italian, war hero, it just doesn't matter. They are, each one, more of the same.

To be sure, each has his supporters. Support is probably stronger for Obama and Clinton than for any of the Republicans, but none, in my view, have enough support to ensure a win.

I actually agree with Matthews' speculation - America is waiting for something more. Something better. A 'Hero', if you will. No, not a literal hero, ncessarily, but a candidate that excites like no other in recent times.

Please don't inbue this speculation with some imagined attack on your candidate. It simply isn't. But I would like to see an honest discussion of this point: Is America waiting for more?

[wyldwolf]

1. Just one quick correction for Matthews

Factually speaking, Hillary is NOT trailing Obama. Obama is gaining, but he still trails by double digits.

That being said, I think the left is looking more for a hero than the right is. It appears Republicans are content to support a "ideological heretic" if they believe it will win the White House. The left is still seeking that ideologically pure Knight to ride in and save the day from the Clintons (and in some cases the Obamas and the Edwards.)

[OwnedByFerrets]

2. Im just waiting on someone to tell the truth and that

hasnt been bought or cant be bought by special interest groups. But that is a pipe dream because without monumental money coming into a campaign, one cant get elected. No more can ANYONE grow up and be president. Just one more american dream down the drain.

[AndyA]

4. That's exactly right.

I don't need a hero. I just want someone who doesn't have their hand in everyone else's pocket. I just want someone who is honest. I want a true Patriot who will do the right thing for America and its people.

I just want someone to stand up and tell us everything that's been going on for the last X number of decades is BULLSHIT, and it's going to stop and right now. They would certainly get my vote.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. I don't know, but if .........

....... "I don't need a hero. I just want someone who doesn't have their hand in everyone else's pocket. I just want someone who is honest. I want a true Patriot who will do the right thing for America and its people.

I just want someone to stand up and tell us everything that's been going on for the last X number of decades is BULLSHIT, and it's going to stop and right now. They would certainly get my vote." ......... doesn't describe a hero, I don't know what does! Let me know when you find him, cuz he'll get my vote, too! :thumbsup:

[Clark2008]

8. Then why are you supporting Edwards?

Unless, of course, truth changes to meet the needs of each audience.

:eyes:

[AndyA]

19. I'm supporting Edwards because I feel he's the best person for the job at this point in time.

He wasn't given anything, he earned it. He grew up poor. He knows what it's like to struggle.

I many change my mind between now and then, but right now I'm for Edwards. If Al Gore decides to run, that will change the landscape greatly.

I should ask you the same question: Why Clark?

Edit to add:

From the Washington Post:

Retired Gen. Wesley K. Clark helped an Arkansas information company win a contract to assist development of an airline passenger screening system, one of the largest surveillance programs ever devised by the government.

Starting just after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, Clark sought out dozens of government and industry officials on behalf of Acxiom Corp., a data powerhouse that maintains names, addresses and a wide array of personal details about nearly every adult in the United States and their households, according to interviews and documents.

Clark, a Democrat who declared himself a presidential candidate 10 days ago, joined Acxiom's board of directors in December 2001. He earned $300,000 from Acxiom last year and was set to receive $150,000, plus potential commissions, this year, according to financial disclosure records. He owns several thousand shares of Acxiom stock worth more than $67,000.

Clark's consulting role at Acxiom puts him near the center of a national debate over expanded government authority to use personal data and surveillance technology to fight the war on terrorism and protect homeland security.

You might want to look into Acxiom, they have some rather nefarious connections to other companies, and I believe they may even tie in to the Bush Crime Family™ owned Carlyle Group. (Just going from memory here, it's been a while since I read about this.)

I'm not trying to put Clark down, but I'm just saying if you look hard enough, there's something "wrong" with all of them. Which is why I posted what I did in my original post.

This article was from September 2003, but as we all know past history is important. Unless, of course, you're GOP.

[FrenchieCat]

34. According to a trusted source who should know, that Acxiom "connection" is a red herring....

The Author of "No Place to Hide", Robert O'Harrow Jr., fully vouches for Clark and the brief work he did on behalf of Axiom regarding screening plane passengers for possible terrorists trying to board immediately after 911 (I assume that's what you are talking about - Clark hasn't worked with them for years)

Here is a link to a web site put up by O'Harrow and the Center for Investigative Journalism in case you are not familiar with O'Harrow's work:
1. http://www.noplacetohide.net /

Here's what O'Harrow had to say about Clark and his involvement with Axiom at this conference held in 2003:

"“NO PLACE TO HIDE: WHERE THE DATA REVOLUTION MEETS HOMELAND SECURITY”

MODERATOR:
P. J. CROWLEY, SENIOR FELLOW, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS

FEATURING:
GENERAL WESLEY K. CLARK
JAMES X. DEMPSEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND TECHNOLOGY
NUALA O’CONNOR KELLY, CHIEF PRIVACY OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
ROBERT O’HARROW, JR., REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST; AUTHOR, NO PLACE TO HIDE

ROBERT O’HARROW:
"...There is a guy that I think many of us in the room respect and admire deeply, General Clark, and he serves as a great example of someone who was deeply involved in representing a company called Axiom. And Axiom was one of those companies that responded with – I know that from my reporting – very patriotic motives. They had a lot of that as a marketer and they shared it and they shared it to good effect; it helped. They also saw ways that they could change their business model and become part of the security industrial complex. And one of the people that was helping open doors for Axiom in Washington was General Clark. The reason I raise that is because I kept finding that General Clark got to places before I did and people spoke admiringly of his ability to say what he knew, to say what he didn’t know, to play it straight, and to in every case do it in the smart way, which is why people respect him."

Here's what Clark had to say himself about working with Axiom at that same event:

"...Can I just say one more thing about this impulse to privacy that you’ve mentioned, Bob, because when I was doing this – and I want to say this because Nuala is here, because when the government starts working programs and it does know where they go and where they going they are always cautious because everybody knows that these programs that do data are very sensitive. Before the government could even get a grip on some of these programs, when the word comes out on them they are blasted before people even understand it.

You know, my instinct on it was a little bit different than the government’s, but I didn’t have any influence on them. I mean, my instinct would have to bring in the ACLU and to say, “Please create a group that’s sort of like a trusted group that we can bounce ideas off of and we want to run these ideas by you. And if you have strong objections, we want to hear them. We want to hear them right upfront.

Clark's with the good guys on this one, not the good old boys network.
_________________

[Sammy Pepys]

3. I also agree...

But it's still very early. I get the feeling that most folks who aren't politically junkies feel as though they're being saturated with candidate coverage against their will right now and while they may see one or two people they like they're just not really engaged at this point. Hence the "mile wide, inch deep" issue.....we've just gone through the 2006 elections and people aren't geared up for another round just yet.

[Auggie]

5. Hero worship -- that's the problem!

We elect candidates based on personality and looks, not merit and past performance, and certainly in chimps case, intelligence. It always comes down to military service and whether or not someone ever smoked dope or how religious they are. Vote the hero platform and you end up with something like Schwarzenegger. Screw Matthews.

[Forkboy]

9. Spot on!

:thumbsup:

[Stinky The Clown]

12. With all due respect, I think you may have misunderstood what is being speculated .....

.... I agree with you about hero worship. I actually wanted to use a word other than 'hero' to state the issue, but in the end, saw 'hero' as the best word, if not the most accurate.

I actually took the initial discussion to be about issues like intelligence and past performance (as you state), not looks and hair styles. In fact, Matthews made the point that the elocatorate, this time around, is much more engaged in issues over style than in past elections.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. There's more to hero worship than looks.

Hitler was a little man with a funny moustache, and a hero to millions.

Lenin was a balding intellectual, and a hero to millions.

It's not the celebration of celebrity - it's the false promise that "this one" is going to solve all our problems. Looking for the man on the white horse.

WE DON'T NEED NO FUCKIN HERO.

We a good person who will surround him/herself with good people who will get the job done.

Hero worship gave us *. It wasn't his stands, or his ideas. It was a rigged election and the conviction of millions that he was the second coming. He positioned himself as a hero to the religious right, and they were his footsoldiers.

Hero worship appeals to authoritarians, regardless of their political bent, left or right.

We don't need it.

[Auggie]

30. Husb2Sparkly -- my response wasn't aimed at you but at Matthews.

I expect he'll be among the first of MSM to start the hero worship bit. And I bet real issues take a back seat to things like patriotism, moral values and "being a nice guy."
Media loves a hero. It means ratings.

Apologize for the mix-up.

[CK_John]

6. We are ripe for a candidate that will promise the practical middle

everything they want to hear. This candidate will be well financed, offer practical solutions, be very pro science, a pot hole fixer, tell us Political Parties are the problem, pro business, and pro labor.

I fear we will fall head over heels for this version of snake oil sales pitch. We want people to tell us they will take care of us and we don't need to help ourselves. We have lost our ability for analysis and problem solving.

This candidate will announce at the end of August and will begin a new era of IND rule.

[rock]

10. We love heroes

Perhaps because they tell the truth.

[blm]

11. A lawmaker who respects peoples' citizenship enough to tell the truth IS a hero.

And heroes will be destroyed.

[Grandrose]

13. Tweety is a nutcase....

Not looking for hero, just the opposite of this
administration... will be just fine! :patriot:

[DinahMoeHum]

14. I don;t know about you, but for me Tina Turner's song comes to mind. . .

whenever I hear this.

"WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER HERO"

OUT OF THE RUINS
OUT FROM THE WRECKAGE
CAN`T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE THIS TIME
WE ARE THE CHILDREN
THE LAST GENERATION
WE ARE THE ONES THEY LEFT BEHIND
AND I WONDER WHEN WE ARE EVER GONNA CHANGE
LIVING UNDER THE FEAR, TILL NOTHING ELSE REMAINS

WE DON`T NEED ANOTHER HERO
WE DON`T NEED TO KNOW THE WAY HOME
ALL WE WANT IS LIFE BEYOND
THUNDERDOME

LOOKING FOR SOMETHING
WE CAN RELY ON
THERE`S GOTTA BE SOMETHING BETTER OUT THERE
LOVE AND COMPASSION
THEIR DAY IS COMING
ALL ELSE ARE CASTLES BUILT IN THE AIR
AND I WONDER WHEN WE ARE EVER GONNA CHANGE
LIVING UNDER THE FEAR TILL NOTHING ELSE REMAINS

ALL THE CHILDREN SAY
WE DON`T NEED ANOTHER HERO
WE DON`T NEED TO KNOW THE WAY HOME
ALL WE WANT IS LIFE BEYOND
THUNDERDOME

SO WHAT DO WE DO WITH OUR LIFES
WE LEAVE ONLY A MARK
WILL OUR STORY SHINE LIKE A LIGHT
OR END IN THE DARK
GIVE IT ALL OR NOTHING

WE DON`T NEED ANOTHER HERO
WE DON`T NEED TO KNOW THE WAY HOME
ALL WE WANT IS LIFE BEYOND
THUNDERDOME

(C) 1985 - Terry Britten / Graham Lyle

[mzteris]

17. doh - you beat me to it

while I was looking them up.....

[martymar64]

38. Thunderdome!!! Two men enter! One man leaves!

Bust a deal, face the wheel!!!



Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[mzteris]

15. I Need A Hero

lyrics


Where have all good men gone
And where are all the gods?
Where’s the street-wise Hercules
To fight the rising odds?

Isn’t there a white knight upon a fiery steed?
Late at night I toss and turn and dream of what I need

I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life

Somewhere after midnight
In my wildest fantasy
Somewhere just beyond my reach
There’s someone reaching back for me

Racing on the thunder and rising with the heat
It’s gonna take a superman to sweep me off my feet

I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life

Up Where the mountains meet the heavens above
Out where the lightning splits the sea
I would swear that there’s someone somewhere
Watching me
Through the wind and the chill and the rain
And the storm and the flood
I can feel his approach
Like a fire in my blood

I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night
He’s gotta be strong
And he’s gotta be fast
And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life
...

[mzteris]

16. -or - We Don’t Need Another Hero

Lyrics


Out of the ruins
Out from the wreckage
Can’t make the same mistake this time
We are the children
The last generation
We are the ones they left behind
And I wonder when we are ever gonna change it
Living under the fear till nothing else remains

We don’t need another hero
We don’t need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond the thunderdome

Looking for something we can rely on
There’s got to be something better out there
Love and compassion, their day is coming
All else are castles built in the air
And I wonder when we are ever gonna change it
Living under the fear till nothing else remains
All the children say

We don’t need another hero
We don’t need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond the thunderdome

What do we do with our lives
We leave only a mark
Will our story shine like a life
Or end in the dark
Give it all or nothing

[sevenleagueboots]

18. I nominate Steve Stanton former city manager Largo, Fl.....he's available

Yes! In these thrilling and exciting pre-primary times, a new 'Hero' or dark horse IS the missing element. Witness the sharp divisions his recent firing had:
http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/02/largo_city_mana.html#comment-61880208

I nominate Steve Stanton former city manager Largo, Fl.....he's available and if talked out of a proposed sex change operation fits the nations needs: experienced; family man; until quite recently OUTspoken; from a high electoral state; fulfills ALL gender groups admiration; will allow PANDAGON folks another chance at candidate blogostan; and he is white.

[Ninja Jordan]

20. I'm reminded of Tina Turner's song from Beyond Thunderdome, 'We Don't Need Another Hero.'

[Apollo11]

21. Gore is the best person for the job

Let's all find ways to show our support for Al Gore! :patriot:

Read Al's blog: http://blog.algore.com/2007/02/our_next_step.html

Help Al Gore lobby Congress: www.algore.com/cards.html

Get ready for Live Earth on 7/7/07: www.liveearth.org

Sign the petitions at www.algore.org and www.draftgore.com

:kick:

[xkenx]

22. Not since Bobby Kennedy....

have I been so inspired by a public figure as I have been inspired by Wes Clark.

THE "DUCK PRINCIPLE"
Ducks don't wear signs labeling them ducks. If it has a ducksbill, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, then you know it's a duck. Wes Clark is one of the Democratic Party's foremost progressives by virtue of his actions over the years, not by any labels that people want to throw at him simply because he had a career in the military.
It is time to appreciate just how lucky we are to have this national treasure. Just a few items:

--Clark was always butting heads with the stereotypical "macho" military Neanderthals because he saw the horrors of war firsthand in Vietnam and always espoused "diplomacy first."
--Clark was one of the leaders of the all-volunteer Army created after the Vietnam debacle. To keep personnel in you had to do a good job of providing for their family needs, health, education, equal opportunity.
--Clark actually won environmental awards at bases under his command.
--When Clark was working at the Pentagon in the mid-90s, he was virtually the only voice crying out to intervene in Rwanda.
--It was Clark's voice, along with Madeline Albright, who persuaded the Clinton Admin., over the objections of the Pentagon, to stop the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. Tell the Kosovar Albanians that Wes Clark isn't a liberal, progressive, humanitarian.
--It was Wes Clark's voice prior to the Iraq invasion who urged that we exhaust all possible diplomatic means before any military action, including in testimony to Congress.
--It was Wes Clark who filed an Amicus Curiae brief in the University
of Michigan affirmative action case.
--It was Wes Clark who committed the act of political courage by appearing on the cover of the Advocate (gay rights magazine)


2008 is all about flipping a few red states into our column. Hillary certainly can't do it. Wes Clark is a progressive wolf in military uniform sheep's clothing. Many Republicans who didn't care for Bush, still couldn't vote for Kerry. Clark was the only Dem. they could consider. Clark has had more EXECUTIVE leadership roles than any Senator by virtue of his military commands where he had responsibility for the lives of hundreds of thousands of servicepeople and their dependents--the whole range of housing, education, training, healthcare, social services, sometimes in a dangerous spot. When Clark was Supreme Allied Commander Europe (Eisenhower's last military position), he had "Head-of-State" status, meaning that he dealt directly with prime ministers/presidents, not underlings. And Clark was virtually the only voice urging help for Rwanda. And Clark and Madeleine Albright were the ones who convinced Clinton to take action against the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, where Clark carried out the military action w/o the loss of a single American life. In this he stood up to the Pentagon brass who wanted nothing to do with "saving Albanians." And it was Clark who served for more than 30 years AFTER getting shot up and winning hero medals in Vietnam, when he could have gone for the big bucks in private industry. Try Swift Boating this guy--the smackdown will be heard around the world. Clark is all about duty, honor, country. When Clark's American Dream/American Hero story gets out to middle America, watch how many red states flip. And the beauty of Wes Clark is that HE IS A REAL LIVE D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T, with a progressive agenda equal to anyone.

[ms liberty]

23. I agree that America is waiting for more...

I feel that we're on the edge of something, it's a feeling that's almost like holding your breath. America (the overwhelming majority, anyway!) knows that things aren't the way they're supposed to be that the direction we're going is opposite where we should be. People have always needed the spark that a leader or a 'hero' figure provides. No matter how disaffected the masses are, someone has to light the fire that is built and waiting; someone has to LEAD, and lead WELL. Without a gifted, leader, you have mob rule, people who are fighting for the leadership position without being leaders, and the individual factions are each going their own direction - it's the push-pull that splinters and defeats the overall purpose. A true and gifted leader unites those factions and brings the masses together for the greater purpose. Everyone catches the fire, and the spark is passed on. We don't just need a 'hero' or a 'leader' - we need an Arthur, a JFK, an FDR. We need a leader of high purpose, with a dedication to our Constitution and the principles on which our nation is based; a vision to move FORWARD into the future, and transmit that vision to the people. I pray we get that person, and that it's the right person, a person of 'good' rather than the 'evil' we've been living with for the last 6 years.

[dfgrbac]

25. Yes, we need a hero!

But how many of our candidates are breaking the politics as usual gutter and declaring the truth? I don't see anyone except http://www.gravel08.us/?q=node/368">Mike Gravel.

Sometimes heros appear suddenly and unexpectedly.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. "Sometimes heros appear suddenly and unexpectedly."

That's one of the ways they get recongnized as heros.

It is how I think it will happen this time.

[Auggie]

33. I want integrity. Like Kucinich. Speaks the truth and is not owned

by corporations.

[leftofthedial]

27. the hero issue is not a lack of support.

It is a lack of principle, will, leadership. courage and talent.

There is a level at which Americans are not stupid. It doesn't show often, but I think people sense that none of the current crop of presidential wannabes represents the common interest. Most are transparent political opportunists.

[Stinky The Clown]

28. You're right ...... and the use of the word 'hero' is really a ......

....... casting about for the right term ...... much as the country is casting about looking for the right leader. "Hero" was not the best term and the country has yet to even *see* the best candidate, let alone back him/her.

"Political opportunists" ....... indeed!

[AtomicKitten]

29. I think Obama has definitely created a buzz everywhere he goes.

I also firmly believe Gore could pass go and go directly to the White House.

The 2008 election is the Democrats to lose.

[OHdem10]

31. IMO, Chris Matthews is subtly

pushing "hero" idea as a segway to promote Rudy.

Wesley Clarke is a great candidate if he wants a hero and
someone who really understands foreign policy. Wesley Clarke
would work for American peoples' interest and not just
Business Interest. Rudy in the end will have to roll over
for Business.

[Greyhound]

32. I think it is even more simple than that, America is looking FOR A LEADER!

Someone that has and states clear goals and a plan to achieve them, and that sticks by them. There are a few possibilities, but with our corporate media calling all the shots, deciding who the voters will see and hear, it seems unlikely that we will get what we want.

OTOH, there is still time and something might break. As you can see from whom I support, I am an optimist, sometimes.

[FrenchieCat]

35. A hero in the sense of one who stands up at personal risk and cost

when others are sitting down?

Yes...we need that kind of a person! :patriot:

In the sense of someone who says a lot of things people want to hear, and takes safe and popular positions because of how it makes them look?

No...we don't need that kind.

[Larry in KC]

36. I think we need the definition of HERO

We’re running in circles here because we’re all reading different connotations into the word. So, why not go to the dictionary as a place to start?

Straight from Merriam-Webster:

(Definition 1.a. has to do with mythological figures)
1.b. An illustrious warrior.
1.c. A man admired for his achievements and noble qualities.
1.d. One that shows great courage.

2. a. (About literary characters)
2.b. The central figure in an event, period, or movement

3. (About the sandwich)

4. An object of extreme adoration or devotion.

So, leaving aside jokes about Hercules, sandwiches, or Moby-Dick, we’re left with five definitions that may apply. #2.b. is a little difficult, too; maybe it can only be applied in historical hindsight.

I think the real difficulty, though, is in separating definitions #1.b., c., and d. from #4, that “object of extreme adoration or devotion”. That seems to be where hero-worship as a negative comes into play. Almost every kid, and many adults, have “heroes” of this kind, often someone adored because he or she does one thing well, which may have nothing to do with nobility (they might throw a ball well, or sing with gusto, or just look unique in an appealing way). To look at them as heroes is often destructive, because many other aspects of their lives might not deserve respect at all, let alone adoration or devotion. A great many of us get jaded by this, assuming that anyone who is looked on as a hero is unworthy, and maybe the more unworthy for all the lionizing they receive.

So does that mean no one is worthy of the term? Well, we’re all human, and that term also has its connotations, mostly about how we’re flawed creatures. Watching political figures, we very often have to weigh the good and acceptable traits or actions we see in them against the not-so-good or even bad ones, to come up with a sort of average. We all talk about sometimes having to vote for the lesser of two evils. I’ve often defended politicians whom I desperately wished didn’t have this negative trait or that unseemly action in their history. I think we all have.

We’re not all equal, though, and it’s naïve to pretend we are. There really are those who are admired for their achievements and noble qualities, there really are those who show great courage, and in fact, there really are still a few illustrious warriors.



Wes Clark is my personal hero. I’ve only really had two in my adult life, Clark and Gandhi (and I think it says something that after many years, this general could join the pacifist in my “hero gallery”). Unlike any other political figure I’ve ever watched, an amazing thing happens with Clark. Almost without exception, each time I learn a new fact about him, from his fascinating biography, about the many times he’s had the courage to speak truth to power, about his views on issues past, present, and future and how he’s developed them, it’s something more to admire. By contrast, the few tiny items I would have to put on the other side of the ledger are almost laughably small. I’ve lived a long time, and I’ve become jaded, too, so I’m continually being surprised by that mere fact.

I don’t think many people can truthfully say that about the candidate they espouse, for any election. I haven’t been able to, about any other, for my whole political life. Some people really are extraordinary, though. In this case, I admire Wes Clark for his achievements and noble qualities, and for showing great courage, and even for being an illustrious warrior (although I may define that last term differently from others).

Wes Clark is my hero, then. He is A hero, and I believe they’re exceedingly rare. How wonderful it would be to have a true hero as our president.

[Stinky The Clown]

37. With all due respect and at the risk of sounding argumentative ........

... defining hero in this case might be counterproductive to the discussion. As I said upthread (more than once, perhaps) the word 'hero' was probably not the best choice. If we must stick with 'hero' (and since that's what was used when I started this thread, we probably will) then we need to allow it be defined as broadly as possible.

It can be argued more than credibly that Wesley Clark meets many people's definition of 'hero'. So does John Kerry. So does this guy, mentioned in another far more poignent thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=259x2867

But none of them are necessarily what I'm talking about here, although surely Kerry or Clark, or any other A-list pol, *could* be.

[Larry in KC]

39. But I think those distinctions really DO matter here

I think people love a “hero,” like the one in that definition of an “object of extreme adoration or devotion”. I think, though, that they’re also constantly disappointed by them, or they move on to the next flavor of the month which they embrace for an equally shallow reason.

But it’s the rare individuals that fit those other, deeper definitions of “hero” whose support will NOT be an inch deep, because they inspire not fickle interest but real loyalty.

I also think that many of the noble qualities of a rare person (and rare leader) like that are ones that cut across more narrow lines that often divide us, because they are almost universally admired. You don’t have to be a liberal or a conservative to admire personal courage, honesty, loyalty, hard work, etc., although we might disagree about how those traits are best demonstrated. I certainly admire some of those across the political aisle vastly more than I do others (in fact, I despise many of the others) because of traits like that, although I disagree with their policies. So, a real hero can have support which is BOTH wide and deep.

I stand firmly by my choice: Wes Clark may NOT be “a candidate who excites like no other in recent times”. But I think he may very well become “a president seen as a hero like no other in recent times”. Yes, America is waiting for more. My vote is that Clark is what they’re waiting for, even if most haven’t learned enough about him yet to know that.

[Roland99]

40. Like John Mayer laments in his song >>>>>>>>>

Waiting on the World to Change

me and all my friends
we're all misunderstood
they say we stand for nothing and
there's no way we ever could
now we see everything that's going wrong
with the world and those who lead it
we just feel like we don't have the means
to rise above and beat it

so we keep waiting
waiting on the world to change
we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change

it's hard to beat the system
when we're standing at a distance
so we keep waiting
waiting on the world to change
now if we had the power
to bring our neighbors home from war
they would have never missed a Christmas
no more ribbons on their door
and when you trust your television
< these lyrics found on http://www.completealbumlyrics.com >
what you get is what you got
cause when they own the information, oh
they can bend it all they want

that's why we're waiting
waiting on the world to change
we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change

it's not that we don't care,
we just know that the fight ain't fair
so we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change

and we're still waiting
waiting on the world to change
we keep on waiting waiting on the world to change
one day our generation
is gonna rule the population
so we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change

we keep on waiting
waiting on the world to change