Poll: Liberals moving toward Clinton; GOP race tightens

[onehandle]

The new CNN Poll conducted by the Opinion Research Corporation shows a tightening race nationally, with Rudy Giuliani and John McCain running neck-and-neck.

snip...

Among Democrats, frontrunner New York Sen. Hillary Clinton is gaining support. Last month, she led Sen. Barack Obama by 8 points. Now she earned 38 percent support versus 24 percent who said they favor her rival from Illinois.

Where are Clinton's gains coming from?

From women and also from liberals. Last month, Clinton and Obama were just about tied among Democrats who call themselves liberal. Now, Clinton has forged 20 points ahead. Her strong position against the Iraq war seems to have convinced liberals she is with them.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/07/schneider.2008.polls/index.html

[Colobo]

1. There is a long way to go

So stay tuned...

[Hardrada]

2. OMG!

Say it ain't so!

[rodeodance]

4. may the best woman win

[Mojambo]

3. "So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal" n/t

[rawtribe]

16. Perfect quote....

:thumbsup:

:scared:

[Mojambo]

17. Thanks. I was hoping someone would get it. n/t

[bunkerbuster1]

42. I'd like to think there isn't a DUer who doesn't get the quote

But shame on those who don't...

I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

more at
http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/lyrics/liberal.html

[Maven]

50. With all due respect to the great J.B.,

I think that conception of "liberal" is a little outdated. Don't you?

[William769]

5. Shits going to hit the fan here on DU!

Good! :rofl:

P.S. I should do a search on all the threads that says Mrs. Clinton has nowhere to go but down, but what the heck, I'm just going to savor the moment. I am sure there will be more to come. :)

[bling bling]

7. No kidding. This should be interesting....n/t

[jaysunb]

6. I wonder which "liberals" that would be

:evilfrown:

[William769]

8. Several right here on this board, including me.

[jaysunb]

11. Please see post 9 & 10

and BTW, I've been here since Du's inception, and can tell you that " shit always hits the fan " during an election cycle. That's what democracy is all about.

[William769]

32. Oh please!

She is the reason we are going to win this Election. I already consider her the presumptive Democratic nominee & the Next President of the United States. And nothing is going to change my mind on that.

[jaysunb]

38. Good !

Now get out there and volunteer for her campaign. Register some voters ! Really get into it !

We'll all be the better for it no matter who wins. :thumbsup:

[Alamom]

46. & me. eom

[antiimperialist]

22. The ones that want a Universal Health Care system, maybe

Let's not forget Clinton is a liberal.

[elocs]

9. Tracking Liberals is like herding cats:

you never can predict with any intelligence which way they are going to go. Liberals are quite willing to bite their noses off to spite their faces. If the Tooth Fairy held all of the right (make that, far-left positions) they would vehemently support her heart and soul. It doesn't matter if the Tooth Fairy could never be elected, she would have their support.

[illinoisprogressive]

10. we will lose the election again because dems are picking the establishment corporatist. again.

[jaysunb]

12. sigh....

it seems that way, doesn't it. :shrug:

[Colobo]

13. We won't, because we will win this.

We can make it happen! We just need to work our asses off; it won't be easy, but I believe in my candidate and in the power of change.

[bling bling]

18. I love your attitude.

It's inspiring. And I agree with you whole heartedly.

[Colobo]

21. They want us to lose faith

Because they know our candidate is capturing the imagination of the American people. They can't attack him, so they attack us, his supporters, by beating the "inevitability" drum.

[wyldwolf]

44. Which "established corporatists" have lost elections?

Al Gore? I thought he won?
John Kerry? Didn't he win?
Bill Clinton? Uh...

Michael Dukakis... he lost... but he wasn't an "established corporatist."
Walter Mondale ... he lost... but he wasn't an "established corporatist."


Jimmy Carter ('76) Won...


George McGovern... he lost... but he wasn't an "established corporatist."

[loudsue]

51. Exactly. We'll have a choice between corporatist & ULTRA corporatist.

And guess who owns the voting machines that tally PRIMARY votes as well as final election votes?

Corporations!!!

Duh?

:kick::kick::kick:

[IndianaGreen]

14. Obviously those liberals are ignorant of Hillary's war views, we must warn them!

Hillary has said she wants to keep a "residual" force and bases in Iraq in perpetuity to protect the oil and defend Israel. Hillary has also said that all options are on the table in regards to Iran, including the first use of atomic weapons.

Hillary is not a liberal. She is Lieberman in drag!

[Colobo]

15. They are not ignorant; her supporters know what she's all about.

[antiimperialist]

20. Hillary is very liberal

Iraq is not the only issue there is. It might be the most important, but she's not 100% for the Iraq war. Let's say Hillary is a "moderate" in regards to Iraq. Does that make her a not-liberal?

[Mojambo]

25. I don't think she's particularly liberal on economic issues either.

The war isn't the only issue liberals should have with Ms. Clinton.

[SaveElmer]

31. Care to cite examples...

She opposed CAFTA
She opposed the 2005 Bankruptcy bill
She supports rolling back the Bush tax cuts
Supported minimum wage hike
Sponsored legislation to expand SCHIP to all children in the U.S.

etc, etc, etc...

And, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce rates her very low...which is a good thing...

[Mojambo]

35. And yet she supported the 2001 Bankruptcy bill, didn't she?

And as first lady strongly supported NAFTA, under her husband's administration.

Harder and harder to figure where she stands.

And On The Issues lists her CoC rating as mixed, along the same line as a few moderate Republicans.

[SaveElmer]

37. Again cite examples...

She voted for the 2001 Bankruptcy bill which passed with 85 votes...

And she has been moving away from support for NAFTA for many years...as I said she voted against CAFTA, for minimum wage, for full coverage of all children under SCHIP, for rolling back the Bush tax cuts etc...

Her current CoC rating is 50...high for her...she usually is in the 30's...but still lower than Barbara Boxer..

Hardly a conservative economically...

[flpoljunkie]

43. Remember it was Hillary who urged Bill to bring Dick Morris to the WH who brought pollster Mark Penn

Intriguing article from The Nation's Ari Berman on Hillary's pollster, Mark Penn titled "Spinning Hillary Centrist."

After the 1994 election, Democrats had just lost both houses of Congress and Clinton was floundering in the polls. At the urging of his wife, Bill turned to Dick Morris, a controversial friend from their time in Arkansas. Morris knew Penn from his days as a pollster in New York and brought him into the White House. Morris decided what to poll and Penn polled it. They immediately pushed Clinton to the right, enacting the now-infamous strategy of "triangulation," which co-opted Republican policies like welfare reform and tax cuts and emphasized small-bore issues that supposedly cut across the ideological divide. "They were the ones who said 'Make the '96 election about nothing except V-Chips and school uniforms,'" says a former Clinton adviser. When Morris got caught with a call girl, Penn became the most important adviser in Clinton's second term. "In a White House where polling is virtually a religion," the Washington Post reported in 1996, "Penn is the high priest." He became known as the "most powerful man in Washington you've never heard of."

more...

As Hillary Clinton charges toward the Democratic nomination for President, her campaign has a coterie of influential advisers. There's her husband, of course, widely regarded as one of the sharpest political strategists in the business. There's über-Washington insider and former head of the Democratic National Committee Terry McAuliffe. There are A-list policy wonks like former Treasury Secretary Bob Rubin. But perhaps the most important figure in the campaign is her pollster and chief strategist, Mark Penn, a combative workaholic. Penn is not yet a household name, but perhaps he should be. Inside Hillaryland, he has elaborately managed the centrist image Hillary has cultivated in the Senate. The campaign is polling constantly, and Penn's interpretation of the numbers will in large part decide her political direction.

Yet Penn is no ordinary pollster. Beyond his connections to the Clintons, he not only polls for America's biggest companies but also runs one of the world's premier PR agencies. This creates a dilemma for Hillary: Penn represents many of the interests whose influence candidate Clinton--in an attempt to appeal to an increasingly populist Democratic electorate--has vowed to curtail. Is what's good for Penn and his business good for Hillary's political career? And furthermore, can she convincingly claim to fight for the average American with Penn guiding strategy in her corner?

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070521/berman

[loudsue]

52. She's just another political package.

Terry McAuliffe is enough to make any good liberal puke.

:kick::kick::kick:

[ElizabethDC]

23. Hillary and Lieberman have completely separate views on the war

he's in favor of the surge and voted against the withdrawal timeline; she voted for it and has pledged again and again to end the war when she is president.

Hillary, like Obama and Edwards, has said that all options are on the table with regard to Iran, but she has repeatedly emphasized the importance of diplomacy (here's a link from her talking about it yesterday: http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070506/NEWS/70506009/1001).

I'm a liberal, I'm a Hillary supporter, and I know what her views are.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElizabethDC]

28. So now she's a genocidal maniac on a par with Hitler!?

Geez, thanks for telling me. Now I know better than to vote for her. :sarcasm:

I assume you'd place Edwards and Obama (and Biden. . . don't forget Biden) in that category, too?

[IndianaGreen]

33. Anyone that advocates first use of nuclear weapons is a genocidal maniac and a terrorist

I remind you that Al-Qaeda believes in first use of atomic weapons, and they will use them if they had them.

[ElizabethDC]

34. Saying all options are on the table isn't the same as advocating the use of nuclear weapons

I mean, are all our leading candidates terrorists, in your opinion?

[IndianaGreen]

36. They are too cavalier and reckless in their use of language

The Pentagon says that the only way to knock out all of Iran's peaceful nuclear installations is by the use of atomic bunker busting bombs. That's what Sy Hersh reported. To say that all options are on the table, it also means that first use of atomic weapons is also on the table. First use of atomic weapons is a crime against humanity, on a par with Hitler's Holocaust.

[SaveElmer]

26. The standard reaction...

Of the litmus test left..."the people aren't expressing my views so they must be ignorant"...

A trait they share with the right wing...

[mtnsnake]

39. No. What's obvious is that those liberals have a brain & think for themselves

and they know that Hillary is not even close to being the warmonger that people like you try to make her out to be. She's the Goddess of Peace and they know it. You should try listening to those enlightened liberals sometime. Maybe you'd learn a thing or two, *tsk* *tsk*.

[IndianaGreen]

40. Until I told those pro-Hillary LGBTs I know about her answer to General Pace's homophobic comments

When asked to comment on Gen. Pace's statement that gays were inherently immoral, Hillary's from-the-gut response was that she "would leave it to others to decide." The pro-Hillary enthusiasm took a dose of cold water, and the same LGBTs that thought that Hillary was on their side, are no longer so sure. What they are sure of, is that when asked the same question that Hillary was asked, John Edwards did not hesitate to condemn General Pace's comments.

LGBTs should support those candidates that support equality under the law, instead of those that are "still evolving" on marriage rights like Hillary is.

I am working very hard in my community to dispel the myth of the "Goddess of Peace," the "Take that, Venezuela!" ruling elite-loving Hillary.

[rinsd]

57. Then you lied to those people

"John Edwards did not hesitate to condemn General Pace's comments."

Here's video of Edwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTTLzqUzu-Q

His response is "I don't share that view."

"LGBTs should support those candidates that support equality under the law, instead of those that are "still evolving" on marriage rights like Hillary is."

Whcih is fucking hilarious since Edwards position is evolving. He personally is against gay marriage but supports civil unions and non-discrimination.

Well what do you know that's the SAME POSTION Clinton has!

[Dawgs]

19. Just one week ago the headlines said liberals moing towards Obama.

[Hardrada]

29. Now they are mooing toward Hillary.

An easily led herd.

[Gloria]

24. This liberal is not moving toward Hillary.....I may just be moving

out of the political scene altogether. Corporatism will be secured whether it's the GOP or her.

[loudsue]

53. I still like Kucinich & Gravel. They, & their views, need to get more publicity.

If Al Gore or Wes Clark don't enter the race, I'm going to work hard for Gravel & Kucinich. I'm tired of settling for one of the corporate front-runners.

:kick::kick::kick:

[ChiciB1]

30. Do Tell?? I Guess They Didn't Check In With THIS Liberal Woman...

What's up?? Not jumping on Clinton, but she's not my favorite candidate and I haven't seen this movement around my area yet.

[Forkboy]

41. Some comedy writes itself.

[wyldwolf]

45. once again rank and file Democrats draw the distinction between "liberals" and "progressives"

Self described liberals, holdovers from the FDR/Truman/Kennedy wing of the party and their ideological heirs vs. self described "progressives," holdovers from the Wallace/McGovern wing of the party and their ideological heirs (made up of today's "netroots.")

[ShortnFiery]

47. Someone dropped a bad hit of Acid when proclaiming "Liberals moving toward Clinton"

All I can add ... "Don't take the DLC embossed ACID mahn!" ;)

[wyldwolf]

48. except that is what the poll shows

:shrug:

I know.. they must not be "real liberals" like you.

[ShortnFiery]

58. Ask yourself, what class of people report on these POLLS? The political elites are sweating bullets

and that's why they are trying to suppress the Primary turn-out for Obama. They are afraid of the truth of a TRUE groundswell of hope behind this man of integrity.

MONEY BUYS ALMOST ANYTHING but immortality and money buys the negative press against anyone but the M$M / Military Industrial Complex anointed HRC.

For the Corporations comprising our *ruling elite* THIS IS a win-win situation for they have both Romney and HRC (through the DLC) in their back pocket.

The only thing that matters is that HRC win the primaries and snag the democratic nomination, after that, the War Profiteers *own all the republicans* resulting in BLESSED perpetual war for another FOUR YEARS. Follow the money and then ask yourself, with all the burning of good will between democrats, do you honestly think THIS TIME that us liberals can be intimidated into voting for the DLC candidate?

In other words, learn how to say "President Rudy" or "President Mitt" if you honestly think nominating HRC is a good thing. :shrug:

[Larkspur]

49. It's still early. Hillary's support is as solid as liquid water

[progressoid]

54. Oh Boy! At least 8 more months of this!!

:woohoo: :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

[bvar22]

55. "Her strong position against the Iraq war"..???

Which strong position would that be?

a)Her strong promises to AIPAC to use American taxpayer money and the blood of American children (non-elite) to protect Israel's political interests no matter what they may be?

or

b)Her strong semi-anti-war promises to end the war, but not really until 2009?

or

c)Her strong promises to the Global Corps that she will end the war, but leave permanent bases to protect the looting of Iraqi resources?

[CTD]

56. No f-ing way

There is simply no way that this story is accurate. Either the poll is crap or the explanation is crap.

Now if they said Hillary was gaining support among REPUBS, I'd buy it.