Our only hopes I see...

[quispquake]

I'm still at a loss on the Iraq funding...

I've been pulling my hair out over the past 24 hours...the betrayal by the corporate dems fucking HURT...After all the grassroots support & time they received by many of us, to simply roll over and give this criminal everything he wanted shows me that we the people truly do NOT have a say anymore in our own government...the VAST majority of Americans did NOT want the Dems to roll over...I do not see any advantage this gives the Dems...it shows us as weak, just what the Repukes wanted...And it doesn't change one iota this abomination of a war.

So, what do we do?

Kucinich is my main hope, but he's so marginalized by the corporate media (and the centrist Dems themselves) that it will be difficult for him to take the presidency...And this really pisses me off...But there is another option...

The other option I thought of (lots of thoughts yesterday walking around in a hurt daze), is that we NEED GORE. He could actually run with NO Corporate donations, and still take the presidency. Whoever the next president is, CANNOT be another Corporate shill...I truly don't think this country can take another 4-8 years of this (we'll be lucky to survive Shrub for another year & a half...). Gore could do this, as Dean did, with grassroots donations from average Americans, and he would not be owe himself to the corporate interests. I think this would allow us to finally make decisions based on what's best for America, and not what's best for the 1% that is taking more & more and leaving the rest of us less & less.

It's time to BREAK the corporate hold on politics...every bad decision, every sell out, can be directly traced to corporations & lobbyists working to advance their agenda, and to hell with the rest of the people. As someone once noted, if a corporation was indeed a 'person', then that person would be extremely sociopathic as they only care about making money at the expense of everything/everyone else...

Will it happen? The pessimist in me says no way...but I can't help but have a little bit of hope. It's truly a make or break time for America...

[tavalon]

1. Of course we need him

He'll get in around September. Until then, keep fighting these Vichy Dems. Don't let them believe for one minute that we will ignore this.

[soothsayer]

2. are they slipping minimum wage into this bill? i swear I heard that

[info being]

10. Not good enough

[april]

3. it is called America Inc. nm

[INdemo]

4. We knew this would happen though...Right?

What is hard to take though is the corporate media's leading statement is "Bush wins Iraq funding battle"..Lets see what happens in September when this funding bill is set to expire...As the death toll continues to rise in Iraq I dont believe the majority of Americans will settle for anything less than a withdrawal date when the next round of political chess rolls around.

[Heath Hatcher]

5. Have some patience

Please, you can't give up on your party there trying there best it's not there fault that the votes aren't there right now for a withdrawal. But come September when the funding ends and the GOP moderates finally realizes that the surge isn't working and if they continue to support the war they'll get voted out they'll come around and support a timetable. September is the key, you have to keep the faith and never ever give up on the party.

Sorry, but your dealing with a guy that looks at life with a "glass half full" mentality.

[quispquake]

6. I'm not giving up on the party...

I'm a member of the party, but it has it's faults...the main one being the corporate control of the party...

I just feel waiting until September means hundreds (at least) more dead Americans, & thousands more dead Iraqis...the cost of waiting for me personally is way too high...and I do NOT trust the GOP moderates & the dems to do anything but cave again...they've just done it too many times...

BTW: Welcome to DU & thanks for your insight!!!

[Heath Hatcher]

7. Your welcome

And more will die, sadly because this is a war. I know the boiling point will come in September when the surge is over, the spending is up and Petraus will give his report, the GOP mods will get scared as they are now that this know the war is a failure and if most of them want to get re-elected they will jump onboard supporting a withdrawal from Iraq. Dems did not cave, if they cave then Bush would of gotten a spending bill with not withdrawal, no benchmarks nothing just a clean will with no questions asked, now if they did that that's caving. This is not a blank check.

But forgive because I do have a glass half full mentality, but I think thst type of memtality is great for the type of mood DU is in right now, don't ya think?

[INdemo]

11. I'm not giving up on my(our) party..I just said we knew this would happen and

I just think the Democrats should have stood their ground and they would have forced this President to sign a bill that would have shown some light at the end of this long tunnel.
The corporate media is already trying to use this issue against the Democrats..They ask "wlll this hurt the Democrats politically?" and "Bush wins funding war"......and on and on ..oh yes they will try and use this against the Democrats and some Democratic voters out there will pay attention.

[reprobate]

12. I haven't given up on the party. Only on the leadership.

And more important than the Iraq war (BTW, I don't see it as a war, only and invasion and occupation for their natural resources) is the way the Dem leadership caved on the 'secret' fair trade bill and the approval to fast track it.

The war will end, as all wars do. Either now or next year. But the devastation done to our economy and the people who work for a living will go on for years because of their actions. Just as NAFTA has caused us so much pain. And guess who was responsible for pushing NAFTA thru? Hint: it was someone named Clinton. Just as another named Clinton bowed to the wishes of the DLC in order to get all that corporate money for her campaign.

IMO anyone who approved of the Fair trade secret agreement should, out of personal honor, quit the Democratic party and own up to their personal greed.

[info being]

9. I know it will happen in Sept too...same old same old

[info being]

8. Kucinich is a dream, Gore is our only realistic hope

I'm with you 100%. If we don't get either, the only option is revolution. That may be the only option either way.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

13. Edwards and Dodd are also fighting against the capitulation

There is still hope for the party and our nation. We have three presidential candidates who are speaking out against it and we have other great Dems like John Kerry and Russ Feingold who are also resisting the Vichy Dems. We just need to hold the sellouts accountable and replace them with more Feingolds, Kucinichs, and Kerrys.

[flaminbats]

14. why are so many young voters Republicans?

I can understand conservatives who became interested in politics in the 60's and 70's. some of these people blamed liberalism for our defeat in Vietnam, for high inflation, and for ending segregation. They supported Reagan because they felt taxes were too high, and because the national debt wasn't a problem yet. many of these same conservatives are older, and the problems caused by growing deficits will not substantially effect them. as far as these older citizens are concerned, the national debt and terrorism are problems for the next generation to solve..but Republicans are only to be loved for cutting taxes and saving us from Communism.

but what about voters who became active in the 80's and 90's? In the 80's the national debt went from just under $1 trillion to over $4 trillion. in the 90's more and more of the federal budget was being used just to make interest payments on the national debt. if not for the high deficits of the 80's and early 90's, the spending cuts and tax increases of the Clinton years wouldn't have been necessary. but in 2000 and 2004 a larger portion of voters under 30 supported Bush than those who are babyboomers.

it is this younger generation who will suffer the most because of the huge taxcuts and growing deficits of the Bush administration. if this continues..this generation will pay more and more in taxes, get less protection and security from the government, and will get little or nothing back for the Social Security taxes they have paid. but this generation thinks taxcuts are good for the economy, that opposing the war in Iraq is unpatriotic, and that terrorism is only another word for liberalism.

something for nothing is nice, but trusting anyone who promises that is only delusional.