Did I just see correctly?!? Why did Kucinich side with the 'Pugs and vote NO on timetable?

[tom_paine]

Now, please don't misunderstand me. I am not calling Kucinich out nor going through paroxyms (as so frequently happens on DU when the Dems don't behave as we wish they would) and saying Kucinich is Republican-Lite or whatever.

But I would like to know, if any does, why he did it. Of all 535 Imperial Congress, Kucinich is one of the handful I actually trust to do the right thing most times.

So, what made this the right thing this time?

Anybody know about this?

[brentspeak]

1. Kucinich has always reached across the aisle during his time in Congress

I'm not sure what the situation here is, but he usually has good reasons for joining with the Repubs.

[Neoconstipated]

2. He wants them home NOW!!!

...at least, that's how I would reason his vote.

I'll go with this until I read or hear something different (from a credible news source.)

[TheDebbieDee]

14. Welcome to DU!

You're right. Kucinich and a few other Dems will only vote in favor of ending this military action in Iraq, nothing less.

[CreekDog]

3. Kucinich will not vote to start bringing them home in 3 months

He will only vote for bringing them home now.

He is so pure, I bet he never has to go to confession.

[Virginia Dare]

18. He's not that pure actually..

do some more digging into his record.

[tom_paine]

27. You need to elaborate and perhaps provide links if you are going to make

a cryptic statement like that.

[Virginia Dare]

32. I'm not interested in criticizing or trashing Kucinich here..

but I take issue with people who call him "pure". He's no more or less pure than any other liberal Democrat out there. He has in the past taken some positions which wouldn't be considered liberally "pure", for instance on abortion and desegregation. He's a fine man and I like and respect him, but he's not "pure", there is no purity in politics..:hi:

[SoFlaJet]

4. Why?

because he's a self-righteous asshole with an agenda. I've totally lost all respect for Dennis Kucinich, and he used to be one of my heroes...sorry DK supporters, but that's how I feel.

[RufusTFirefly]

7. Pretty cynical agenda, eh?

Ending the occupation, saving lives, and diverting money to places where it is sorely needed.

Man, I hate those cold, calculating politicians.

[SoFlaJet]

8. I understand that RTF

but to side with and VOTE with those scumbag republicans in the house is unforgivable

[MonkeyFunk]

10. well if he really thinks

he's gonna get what he wants, he's an idiot.

He should support something that's possible.

[RufusTFirefly]

12. Well, gosh, I guess he's an idiot then

Thanks for pointing this out.

In 1964, idiots Wayne Morse of Oregon and Ernest Gruening of Alaska were the only members of the Senate to cast a vote against the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which led to the tragic escalation of the Vietnam War. We know in hindsight that they were courageous and right. And eventually they got what they wanted, although it took 10 years and thousands of lives before they did. Simply because the Republicans are voting no -- for entirely different reasons -- doesn't mean that Kucinich should just go along to get along.

[tom_paine]

28. Very nice counterpoint, though.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[tom_paine]

26. I think I might agree, except OTOH it also could truly be a move of principle

Although lining up with the toadying 'Pug Imperial Congresspersons does make my guts crawl, even if it was on principle that they come home NOW.

Even then, why not vote FOR this, which gets them home sooner, and continue lobbying for the other, pipe dream though it may be for the moment?

On another topic:



"Evil Monkey Song: Evil Mon-KEY!"

[partylessinOhio]

5. From Dennis Kucinich on his Congressional web page:

Kucinich: Troop Redeployment Bill Will Not End The War
The Only Way To End The War Is To Say NO To Any Additional Funding





Washington, Jul 12 - Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) issued the following statement following his vote against HR 2956, the Responsible Redeployment from Iraq Act.

“We’ve lost over 3,600 of our brave service men and women. An estimated one million innocent Iraqis have perished in the war. We’re now telling Iraqis, whose country the U.S. destroyed, whose reconstruction funds the U.S. mishandled, whose social networks have been shredded: Stand on your own feet! We try to steal their oil under the cover of occupation,” Kucinich said in a debate on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives today.

“This bill will not end the war. This bill will not end the occupation. It doesn’t take a vote to end this war. We must inform the Administration that the $97 billion appropriated last month is the end of the financing for the war.

“Use the money that’s in the pipeline through October 1 to bring the troops home. Compel the President to put together an international peacekeeping and security force which would move in as our troops leave.

“We could have our troops home by October 1. The question is whether we are ready to take a stand to do that, or whether we are going to vote on resolutions that give the American people the appearance that we want to end the war, without actually addressing the central issue that will end the war. Stop the funding.”

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=69245

[flpoljunkie]

9. Dennis is wrong. It would take six months to redeploy troops out of Iraq safely.

[Virginia Dare]

17. Absolutely correct..

Bush could drag it out for at least that long, if not longer, and every American death that occurred in the meantime he along with the complicit media would put on the Democratic party. Defunding does NOTHING to force Bush's hand.

[bdamomma]

13. I was surprised also that Dennis was against the timeline

but then again, he wants the funding to stop. I don't understand his thinking, he just wants the funding to end?, something I don't think will happen, unless push comes to shove to end this illegal invasion.

[RufusTFirefly]

6. No bill is the best way to end the occupation

If Congress fails to send a bill to the White House for the President's signature, the money will dry up. That's Kucinich's rationale, I'm pretty sure. In other words, the best action is no action. Anything else is providing reinforcement for the status quo and will result in more needless deaths. Many of the proposed bills have had truck-sized loopholes that would permit the occupation's perpetuation.

[Virginia Dare]

15. It's his rationale, but it's a total falacy..

cutting the funding doesn't force Bush to do SHIT. I like and respect Kucinich, but he is WRONG on this issue, and he should work with his party not against them to get the troops home.

[some guy]

24. Or maybe

his party should work with him on getting Cheney and then Bush impeached and removed from office.

The maladministratioin is the roadblock preventing the ending of the occupation.

[noamnety]

25. On the other hand

He may as well vote his conscience; it's not like voting to FUND the war will force Bush to end it. It that's what the party thinks, the party is equally wrong. So I don't understand the indignation here.

[Virginia Dare]

33. This vote was not about funding the war...n/t

[noamnety]

37. Sorry, yep

timetable, funding, basically overall enabling.

All the same, I'm not following the logic that says he shouldn't vote no since that won't force Bush to end the war, because voting to enable him obviously won't force him to end the war either.

Coming at this from pure logic, if the outcomes are the same, we shouldn't be using that to justify outrage over an input.

[BBG]

31. Complicit is as complicit does...

and so Dennis should go along with the half-ass efforts to set timetables rather than stick to his guns and cease funding altogether?

Nah, I like Dennis' idea better. Maybe the rest of the party ought to be working with him.

On second thought no maybe about it. Enough of this shit, stop the occupation.

[Monty_]

11. So basically......

he's acting like the little kid who doesn't get picked in dodge ball and takes his ball and goes home

[some guy]

23. If only it were that easy.

Dodge ball is a difficult game to play if the owner of the ball takes it home with him.

I'm sure Mr Kucinich would be very happy if he could simply pick up all the troops in Iraq and bring them home with him, which would make it difficult to continue to occupy Iraq.

[Monty_]

36. Not really the connection I was making

the ball wasn't the troops :). I know Dennis has his heart in the right place, trust me I want them home now, but it isn't happening, so why vote with repukes to try and stop any positive action?

[TwilightGardener]

16. Now ! Now! Now! -- LIke a goddamn toddler having a tantrum--

wants his way AND to get attention while doing it.

[IndianaGreen]

20. How many names do you want to see on a future Iraq War Memorial Wall?

Each day the Congress fails to defund the war, is a day in which more people will die.

How many have died since the surge began? How many have died since Pelosi and Reid caved in to Bush on defunding the war?

[TwilightGardener]

30. I agree with this bill. Kucinich is an ass for not supporting it.

[RufusTFirefly]

21. Just like that big baby Russ Feingold...

... who went against everyone and refused to vote in favor of the PATRIOT ACT.

Or that childish Barbara Lee
... who broke from her party and wouldn't trust Monkey Boy with the use of force

Or those petulant French
... who defied their ally and wouldn't support the U.S.'s illegal plan to invade Iraq

Or those few who held their breath and turned blue
... until the majority of the public finally caught up with them and dared to consider the "I" word for Bush and Cheney


Boy, what a bunch of spoiled brats they all were! We sure proved them wrong!

[TwilightGardener]

29. Russ Feingold has decided not to bring Reid Feingold up for a vote

now, because he realizes it won't pass and he wants to put the focus on legislation that MIGHT stand a chance--that's my understanding, anyway. That's a class act--a guy who is willing to settle for less than what he really wants, because he's not all about grandstanding and showing off his purity. He'd rather get something less-perfect done, without his name on it, than insist on everyone doing things his way. The rest of your also-mentions--I'm limiting my focus to Reps/Senators voting on THIS issue NOW.

[IndianaGreen]

19. Remember when Pelosi and Reid caved in to Bush on defunding the war?

There is enough money in the pipeline to bring the troops home by October 1 of this year.

Kucinich: Troop Redeployment Bill Will Not End The War

The Only Way To End The War Is To Say NO To Any Additional Funding

Washington, Jul 12 - Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) issued the following statement following his vote against HR 2956, the Responsible Redeployment from Iraq Act.

“We’ve lost over 3,600 of our brave service men and women. An estimated one million innocent Iraqis have perished in the war. We’re now telling Iraqis, whose country the U.S. destroyed, whose reconstruction funds the U.S. mishandled, whose social networks have been shredded: Stand on your own feet! We try to steal their oil under the cover of occupation,” Kucinich said in a debate on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives today.

“This bill will not end the war. This bill will not end the occupation. It doesn’t take a vote to end this war. We must inform the Administration that the $97 billion appropriated last month is the end of the financing for the war.

“Use the money that’s in the pipeline through October 1 to bring the troops home. Compel the President to put together an international peacekeeping and security force which would move in as our troops leave.

“We could have our troops home by October 1. The question is whether we are ready to take a stand to do that, or whether we are going to vote on resolutions that give the American people the appearance that we want to end the war, without actually addressing the central issue that will end the war. Stop the funding.”

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=69245

[grizmaster]

22. yup, he voted in support of more Americans dying

sad to see him marginalize himself even from the few that support him.

[Totally Committed]

34. Your answer is in the this OP and thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3373038&mesg_id=3373038

He wants them out NOW, not on some timetable set up bi-partisanly. The only way he sees this as being possible is to deny ALL funding. That's what his vote was about.

TC

[Sparkly]

35. From his website

“We’ve lost over 3,600 of our brave service men and women. An estimated one million innocent Iraqis have perished in the war. We’re now telling Iraqis, whose country the U.S. destroyed, whose reconstruction funds the U.S. mishandled, whose social networks have been shredded: Stand on your own feet! We try to steal their oil under the cover of occupation,” Kucinich said in a debate on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives today.

“This bill will not end the war. This bill will not end the occupation. It doesn’t take a vote to end this war. We must inform the Administration that the $97 billion appropriated last month is the end of the financing for the war.

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=69245

He is adamant that stopping the funding is the only way, and sees bills like this one as pussyfooting around, I think.

[ChipperbackDemocrat]

38. I support Dennis but I don't agree with him here.

Rather than "defund" the war...The Democrats should send President Bush the bill, with the timetables..

President Bush will veto it...which means, the Democrats have the grounds to tell the American people "We gave President Bush the money he wanted...AND HE VETOED IT. WHO IS REALLY SUPPORTING THE TROOPS?"