A question for the Anti-Hillary crowd part2

[cleveramerican]

I asked it a few months ago, lets see if the climate here has changed since then.

Name one blue state she can't win?

[patrioticintellect]

1. How about this...

Name one blue state she can win. And then give me a good reason why?

Personally, I believe the answer to your question is: all the blue states...she can't win any of them.

[asthmaticeog]

2. That's fucking riDICulous.

She's a crap candidate, but she's not Mondale vs. Reagan crap.

[journalist3072]

3. That's really funny coming from a Kucinich supporter. Name one state your weak candidate is leading

in.

[patrioticintellect]

57. Kucinich

He's not winning because Hillary is disinforming the public and fighting to continue the same policies this president has. She's just looking to disguise them as "Democratic". But what she is for isn't progressive...liberal. What she is for is centrist and in fact, more conservative than most would believe.

The only progressives running are Kucinich and Gravel. I am voting based on my beliefs. I am not voting on who is "electable". If that does a disservice to my party and leads to the election being won by a Republican, so be it. If the Democrats wanna win, nominate a real candidate like Kucinich.

Because what happens when Hillary swindles the American people and wins the nomination. We Kucinich supporters move over to "supporting Hillary" and raise hell trying to get her to be for what we are for. And the Democratic party becomes further divided.

[William769]

4. New York.

85% approval rating. You only asked for 1.

[cleveramerican]

5. She would carry every state Kerry did.

and likely some more.I don't think you can say that...yet, about any of the others.

Why? name recognition, political adaptability, no mistakes campaigning style,popular wave of disgust with the republicans.

[wyldwolf]

13. Arkansas. Want another?

[The River]

6. A Much Better Questions Is:

Which "Purple" states will she cause to go Red?

I live in a very Blue part of a traditional Red State.
In 06 we went from mostly Red to a solid state of "Purple"
as we ousted the Macaca Man.
No one I know in this very Blue part of the State is a Hillary supporter.
I know I will not vote above local races if she is the nominee.

All of Dem candidates should be able to hold traditional Blue States.
Which candidate(s) might actually flip the most Purple states Blue?

[msongs]

9. nice to hear you'd rather the dems lose the white house than vote for hillary clinton nt

[The River]

25. Tell It To The DLC

This will be my 10th election cycle. In all that time,
neither Democrat nor Republican has made any real difference.
The corporations own both parties. One is openly destructive
to the average citizen. The other puts on a smiley face mask while they fuck us.
The whole system is broken and electing a DLC "centrist" will only
bring us more of the same.

[Hepburn]

27. A-fucking-men....

...isn't that the sad fucking truth! :grr:

[paulk]

44. George W Bush didn't make a real difference?

some of the stuff that gets posted on this website is so far past stupid that I can't take this place seriously anymore...

[Greyhound]

50. Little shrub was simply the beginning of the end-game.

9/11 provided the opportunity to use the mechanisms that were placed over the previous 20+ years and he jumped.

The fact that it was him now was just a detail, it was inevitable and the Democratic party did all of its share to get us there.

Speaking of how far past, or how many kinds for that matter, of stupid is non-productive.

[0007]

56. You got that one right and no matter how much perfume ya put

on a vulture it still smell like a bird of prey person of a rapacious, predatory, profiteering nature.

I hate no one.....but the system that the U.S. has become.

[zulchzulu]

7. It would depend on the GOP candidate and if there's a 3rd Party candidate

Speculating without specifics and seriously looking at a third party candidate that shaves off votes is a bit like asking what next winter's snow level will be in Buffalo.



I'm not sure she would win Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Maine, Maryland or Illinois...

On edit... here is a map of the states in levels of purple:


A left-leaning or perhaps a cross-moderate ticket could take away a lot of votes from Clinton. So figure that the Republicans will fully mobilize to vote against a Clinton (that's what they want) and add in a Hagel/Biden or some hybrid third party ticket, let alone a Nader ticket, and you have a recipe for Democratic disaster. Add that races left for dead by the GOP now enlivened by an anti-Clinton GOP turnout and you have a red, bloody mess for eight more years.

My 2 cents.

[Hepburn]

14. Throw in....

...Ohio which went BLUE in the mid-terms also IMO.

[ronnykmarshall]

31. Stick your 2 cents up your ass!

I baked a fucking pie, stuffed a god-damn turkey and did you come and see me when you were in LA? NO!! Ok the phone sex was fantastic, but you promised me a dinner in Santa Monica!!!

Lying sack of shit.

I hate you! I hate you! Mother fucker!!!

:silly:

Did ya have fun, you shit head?

[zulchzulu]

37. LOL!

Dang bro...

It was postponed until later in the fall, sweetness. My bad...

:hi:

[guruoo]

40. !!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[MrSlayer]

8. Pennsylvania

She cannot win this state and therefore cannot win the election. The cities make PA blue and they simply will not come out for her the way they came out for Kerry. The suburbs that are traditionally Republican went Democrat in a big way to oppose Bush but that also will not happen for Hillary.

[William769]

10. Shame on you.

Quinnipiac University poll
8/20/2007
Pennsylvania

Hillary Clinton 42%
Al Gore 13%
Barack Obama 12%
John Edwards 8%
Joe Biden 4%
Bill Richardson 1%
Dennis Kucinich 1%
Unsure 16%
Other 2%
Wouldn't Vote 2%


:eyes:

[Hepburn]

12. You have her running against other DEMS....

...the issue is: Could she carry Penn against a Repub.

[William769]

16. The answer is still the same.

with that much support on the Dem Side, she would not have a problem.

[Hepburn]

19. Hello???

That is the support with DEMS...in order to win the state, she has to get independents and Repub cross overs. She cannot do that. Her negatives are way to high.

[William769]

21. Her negitives have been debunked over and over.

Sheesh. :eyes:

[Hepburn]

24. Sure....

...that is WHY we are having this debate among fellow DEMOCRATS...she has NO negatives. Take a look around here....even with us who are Democrats, she has a TON of negatives. If some of us cannot stand her...just WHAT do you think the general population ~~ moderates and independents ~~ think of her...not to say anything of her negatives with the RW crowd.

She is a sure loser. Why in the hell are we are Democrats going to noninate someone who for sure is gonna go down in flames. Hello to at least 4 more years of some RW asshole like Ghouliani or Mittney.

[William769]

30. DU is only a very small percentage af America.

Her negatives keep falling by the month. And as Obama gets better known, his negatives go up. Go figure.

[zulchzulu]

26. Debunked by whom?

Clinton supporters?

Seriously, where have Senator Clinton's high negatives been "debunked"? I'd like to see the links and I'll check it out myself.

Thanks! :hi:

[Hepburn]

28. Eggs-act-lee.

I have not seen her negatives debunked. Shit, from all my liberal pals all I hear is how much she is disliked by them. If we dislike her....can you imagine what others think about her??? OMG!

[William769]

32. All you have to do is use your search feature.

:hi:

[zulchzulu]

33. I'm sure you have a site handy for me to check out...

got link?

:shrug:

[William769]

34. Got milk?

[zulchzulu]

38. Oh...OK... you got jack... I knew it.

Seriously, find me the debunked negative stuff NOT affiliated with the Clinton campaign. I am interested, believe it or not. I'd figure you'd have that in your tools regarding your support for your candidate.

I'll just sit here....waiting....waiting... waiting...

:popcorn:

[William769]

42. I told you how to find it. I'm not doing your homework.

If you think I'm wrong you know how to find it.

[Forkboy]

47. Ah yes..the old tell people something than chicken out when asked for proof...

...with the old "I'm not doing your homework" crap.

How about,if you think you're right,prove it?

And come one...you can't ask for a better post to respond to with the facts.Wouldn't you love to really put me in my place and make me look like an ass? You'd think that alone would be worth the few minutes it would take you to find it,no?

[zulchzulu]

53. I would think that this issue would be your homework

I could care less. If you have some information to share (because you did your homework on your support for your candidate), then please share it with us. I'm sure I'm not the only one to wonder where this information is...

[zulchzulu]

18. Who's "Unsure"? Got a web site?

Unsure is 16%. That is second place with Gore at 13%. Nice poll!

Anyway, we're talking General Election, right?

[jaysunb]

20. shame on YOU.

for not posting how she matches up against the Republican opponent. :evilfrown:

[MrSlayer]

23. That means nothing to me.

Watch what happens in the general. She loses this state.

[William769]

36. So who on that list could do better by those numbers?

[MrSlayer]

43. Those numbers mean nothing.

After the early primaries everything changes. If she doesn't win the first few, momentum goes to whoever did the way it always does. Watch what happens. My prediction is that if Gore doesn't get in, Edwards is going to win Iowa and New Hampshire and it will take off from there. The numbers right now are meaningless.

[noamnety]

11. Name one blue state I want her to win.

I don't think you're grasping the point of why people oppose her, if you are reducing it to "she can win/she can't win."

[cleveramerican]

22. The most damaging reason people oppose her is....

Bush,Clinton,Clinton,Bush,Bush.... Clinton?

I believe Clinton fatigue is her biggest liability.
The feeling that its time for somebody else to take the stage.

[cali]

15. OK

I'm not pro-HIllary. OTH, I'm not vehemently anti-Hillary either. And the reasons I don't care for her terribly have nothing to do with the question you posed: I do think she'd take all the blue states. So what?

[defendandprotect]

17. I want Edwards -- but if they force Hillary on us, I think we'll all support her . . . .

and get ready for the endless Bill Clinton "penis impeachment" reminders --

and of course "Travel-gate, file-gate" and all the other meaningless stupidities which the press wallowed in at the time --

[illinoisprogressive]

29. Illinois will be tough. We could turn red. See, the anti hillary feeling is very high..

outside chicago she is almost uniformly loathed. Not being dramatic. it is fact.
We have the southern part that is very republican and a true southern state there.
Up north we have farmers and factory workers.
Even tho obama won his senate primary overwhelmingly and today has a 75% approval, but, he has alot of support from all the parties and the indies. same with Durbin.
But, these are republicans who liked the democratic senators. they will bolt if Hillary is the nominee.
And those who don't loathe her are very lukewarm.

[William769]

35. Your right it is a tough State.

As it stands now Obama can't even take it from Hillary! :spray:

[zulchzulu]

39. Obama will easily win Illinois in the primary

The poll numbers on the ground level show him a heavy favorite. He's well liked as a Senator across party lines.

[William769]

41. I don't think so.

He's in a battle for that State, don't kid yourself.

American Research Group
7/8/2007
Illinois

Barack Obama 37%
Hillary Clinton 33%
John Edwards 10%
Bill Richardson 4%
Joe Biden 1%
Chris Dodd 1%
Dennis Kucinich 1%
Wesley Clark 1%
Unsure 12%

[More Than A Feeling]

45. Considering that SurveyUSA found her only down by six versus Rudy

in ALABAMA, she could probably win every blue state easily...except New Jersey. If its her v. Rudy, she'd have to fight for Jersey. Other than that, she can probably win them all.

[PurityOfEssence]

46. Even if you're right, so what? You can win every "Blue" state and still lose.

It's the wrong question.

[cleveramerican]

52. she would carry every blue state

add Ohio and Florida and she wins!

Thats a pretty strong place to BEGIN.

[PurityOfEssence]

55. Flailing about with your magic wand doesn't make it so

Neither of those states is a shoe-in by any stretch of the imagination, and some of those that people consider "safe" aren't.

[Capn Sunshine]

48. It's not what she can win, its HOW she will lose

Name one Blue State Kerry couldn't win? Moot point. He's not president today.
Hillary has the same bunch of bumblers working for her who frittered away Kerry's 20 point advantage, and created the "wooden" Gore, with a campaign that resulted in people saying " what's the difference? Democrats, Republicans, there's no difference really."

THAT is why Hillary should not be the nominee. It's her campaign organization whose philosophy is "don't upset the swing voter" despite the fact that in 2006 we demonstrated swing voters go with you if you stand up for your ideals, not water them down.

[killbotfactory]

49. That's pretty much it

She, or her advisors, are terrified of losing swing voters. She's playing defense when the time for offense is has been overdue for years.

[Milo_Bloom]

51. Pennsylvania

[lojasmo]

54. Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa. EOM