Clark Supporters...tell me what you think about THIS! Moderate Independent

[in_cog_ni_to]

Article. VERY, VERY interesting. What do you think? It sounds like Wes is MAYBE going to get back in the race. How do you feel about it? He wasn't going to leave the race after Tennessee! He was going to do what Dean is doing....fire his staff and stay in the race, but his staff had gone to the media so he had no choice at that point. *sigh* Could this be true??

<snip>
ELECTIONS 2004

ANY QUESTIONS?

The Right-Wing Hit On Kerry Takes Him From Unbeatable To Almost Beaten In Just 4 Days With The Right-Wing Appointing Underqualified Edwards, It Looks Like Four More Years For Bush - And Then There's The Rumor About Clark Coming Back

by Betsy R. Vasquez



FEBRUARY 17, 2004 – Yes, we told you they'd turn on Kerry the second Clark was out.

It's not just the affair rumor. In a matter of a week, beneath the radar of most Americans, the right-wing machine has turned veterans in hordes against John Kerry, making him out to be a Hanoi John who spoke out against his fellow soldiers while they served in Vietnam. A week ago, our Republican sources were telling us nothing but positive stuff, that many Republicans would seriously consider Kerry, who they thought of as a good ol' veteran. Then, just within days, one of my favorite sources came to me in shock, saying he had just been at a meeting with many veterans there and all of them - all - were furious - not just unhappy, but completely hateful against - Kerry, because of the claims he betrayed "the code." The soldier "code" that one soldier doesn't speak out against others while combat is still going on. Never mind that John helped start the MIA/POW movement or fought his butt off to end the war so they could stop dying "for a mistake." Within days, they've gone from absolutely considering him to absolutely hating him, and the right-wing hate and lie machine is directly responsible for it - as we told you they would do.<snip>

<snip>
General Clark dropped out of the race prematurely - if you had any question, it is answered now. Even in Wisconsin Kerry barely won. California and New York would have been prime territory for a challenge.

Now we have to tell you - though usually we don't mention rumors - about a certain rumor regarding General Clark, only because it is being talked about by one of his 'former' top people, and someone close to his son, Wes, Jr.<snip>

http://moderateindependent.com/v2i4elections2004.htm

Keep this kicked for the Clark supporters???

on edit....There's a LOT more to this article! Be sure to read the whole thing! :) Thanks.

[democratreformed]

1. Nooooo

I feel like this would hurt his credibility. It wouldn't do him any good to get back in.

P.S. It would really look bad when he just passed up the chance at a strong showing in WI.

[coloktm]

2. I agree...wait for '08

Let's just let Kerry go up and get sacraficed like we are seeing already...then, we'll put wes back up in '08 when the country is completely in the shits and he'll come to save this country when we REALLY need him!!

[KittyWampus]

8. Article Goes On To Say It's Nonsense

However, to us this rumor is nonsensical. Quite simply, General Clark had no business dropping out when he did, as tonight's Wisconsin results showed. Super Tuesday, with states like New York and California, each with independent, active people and a multitude of delegates, could have been his potentially.

[BootinUp]

25. I don't think so cryingshame

The insiders and pundits took him down at the National level, in the press. He was forced out in the most despicable way. It would only have gotten uglier had he stayed in. I think he knows it was not the battle to fight at this time.

[KittyWampus]

38. I Was Just Quoting From The Article. Forgot To Put Quotation Marks

sorry.

I wasn't commenting personally on the article.

[BootinUp]

39. oops, my fault

I should really read more before posting.

[BootinUp]

20. the sacrificial lamb- oh dear

Or is stalking horse more appropriate? :)

[KC21304]

4. I agree. I saw Kerry and CLark together in Madison Friday.

I think they are going to team up soon, and they will run over everyone. Including Bush.

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. I don't know.

I don't think the General would give a crap about how his "credibility" looked if he thought his country needed him MORE. :shrug: Just a guess. That seems to be how he lives. Country first. I think the fact that he was going to stay in and his staff went to the press saying he was dropping out would be a perfectly reasonable explaination. If he's thinking about getting back in....NOW is the time. IMO.

[DemExpat]

3. I personally would be thrilled if he got his name back on....

and my husband has been hinting to me that "anything is possible" when I voice my dismay with Clark's absence and the current frontrunners.....

:kick:

DemEx

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. I would be thrilled too.

Also, how many other candidates were ever DRAFTED to run for president? His whole reason for being in the race was for the betterment of his country...to rid us of the Bush cabal. If he thinks Kerry will lose.....I don't know, maybe he will get back in. I can hope. I don't think his supporters would be upset, do you?

[DemExpat]

14. The only thing that would look dumb is Clark's having endorsed

Kerry, IMHO.

Clark supporters would not be upset...how could they be? :-)

DemEx

[Lefta Dissenter]

5. I don't think so, Incog,

I think that Clark may have been upset with the way that the 'announcement' of his withdrawal was made prematurely by a staffer, but if he, indeed, had not intended to drop out, he could have come out with a statement that night that indicated that he was not dropping out.

I don't think that after what happened with his 'early retirement' from his NATO position, he would have allowed another leak to dictate his future.

Also, if he had thought he might be getting back in, why would he have endorsed Kerry? Dropping out released his delegates, and the endorsement sent his superdelegates to Kerry - it just makes no sense.

[HuskerDem]

7. Please don't do that to me, don't think I could take anymore roller

coaster rides................


But you KNOW I'd be right back on board.

[BootinUp]

21. ditto

That was right on the money honey. :)

[jpgpenn]

9. to many dynamics involved...

I think many across the country would be turned off by this. Unless of course the facts of what the repukes are up to get out to the mainstream voters!

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. Who better to ENLIGHTEN them

than The General! :7 :bounce:

[democratreformed]

12. You don't know how much I wish this could happen

But, you saw what they did to him. They are STILL doing it to him. Can you imagine how they would use something like this to contine their line that he is nutty and there is just something not right about him?

You know what bothers me most? Not only was he rejected by the pundits and such - but from many within our own party. He has never gotten the respect he deserves. NEVER - not even from the talking heads who are supposed to be for HIS party.

I just can't stand it any more. Because of all this, I have had to reassess how I feel about the party as a whole. For now, I have chosen to contine believing in it. Who knows if I could continue after what they would say about him if he were to get back in.

[BootinUp]

22. yep -eom-

[Adelante]

27. Too right, demreformed

Wes is better off now. He can organize for his program of progressive causes. He can campaign and organize the vote for Democratic candidates. He can force his national security message to resolve the emergency and free up the national treasure for the domestic emergency. He has standing now and he has us, his loyal troops. And he is no longer at the mercy of the media. If he wants to run for some office in future, he has learned the ways, whys and wherefores, and is in a much better position than before he ran for president. Voters who had grown to know Wes Clark voted for him, but he was never able to get himself in front of the broadest voting public. Wes is a realist and a pragmatist and a strategic genius. The country is choosing someone else. He saw that and to his everlasting credit, he gracefully and graciously withdrew from the field and committed his support to John Kerry. He did it very publicly, and at a moment the frontrunner and the party were in extreme danger. We always say, let Wes be Wes. Well, this is Wes. We love him and we trust him.

GO WES!!

[tishaLA]

13. I love Clark

so I say NO. He would be pilloried for indecisiveness. They'd say he is unstable--again. And it would make his endorsement (and his word) look foolish and useless. It's lose/lose.

That's why I hate rumors (even though I love them).

[Leilani]

15. I'm as big a Clark supporter as you will find

But I think it would be a mistake to get back in now. He has endorsed John Kerry, & it would not be right.

I wish he had not gotten out; who knows what may have happened?

But he made the decision, & he needs to stay with it.

[11cents]

16. Um - any reason to think Vasquez's "sources" are more real than Drudge's?

Remember when she was saying that her "sources" and "polling" told her that Clark was running a strong second in New Hampshire and might win due to some Magic Element X that she dared not mention? Please.

[KittyWampus]

40. X Element Was Veterans Rolls. Clark's Campaign Was

Dare I say, inept in many regards.

[xultar]

17. You wanna know what I think?

snip from same M/I article --- :nuke::grr:

The rumor is that Clark never intended to drop out, that the night of the Tennessee and Virginia primaries he had planned on firing his staff and was considering staying in the race, but instead his staff announced he was withdrawing to the press without his knowing. The rumor then says that Clark went and dropped out because of this.

snip---:nuke::grr::

:nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. LOL! Xultar...

that's exactly what I thought when I read that. He should march his loose lipped staff out at a press conference and make them eat those words! He was going to do waht Dean is doing! Damn them!. :grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[BootinUp]

23. Lol, your post needs a claxon sound

Maybe that can be a future upgrade for the DU forum. ;)

[Eurobabe]

19. folks, methinks someone is playing mind games with us...

remember, it was just last week that supposedly "Clark said Kerry will implode over an intern issue."

Let rumors lie.

[11cents]

24. Um-hmm. And when someone cites "rumors"....

... and unnamed sources, and "polls" that have no actual numbers, we might be dealing with a control-freak who likes to jerk people around. Was driving me crazy during the campaign, watching people on the Clark blog jump to attention whenever the Moderate Independent told them something they wanted to hear.

[bigfishsmallpond]

26. one word - PEROT

not a good idea

[mikehiggins]

29. Nah, I worked on the Perot campaign in NYC as a grassroots

volunteer. He was mostly running against Bush #1 as a man who Perot felt had betrayed the POW/MIA issue.

He dropped out and there was a firestorm of shock and horror. I knew it was fishy from the very outset, and even told a small group of other Perot-istas so in a newsletter I put out at the time. I even predicted the day Perot would come back in, and only missed it by a matter of days. Made a bit of bucks in bets on that one.

It is a strategy that doesn't appeal to the regular pols, and the media just hates it. It can work, though, especially when someone else immediately comes in for the beatings the press was giving you.

How many minutes after Clark pulled out did the rumor about the intern come out? Five?

Moderate INdependent is right on the money about a lot of stuff. I do disagree with them over whether a tactic like that could work, or if Clark was actually taking a page out of Perot's book. The difference is that Perot's campaign was about Perot; Clark's is about America.

THe Wesley Clark Society is looking better and better by the minute.

But what the hell do I know? I'm just a retired construction worker.

Still, wouldn't it be a hoot?

[Adelante]

28. I agree with this part

"Make no mistake, though, Edwards' Wisconsin rise was an aberration born of a state where Republicans and Independents get to choose the Democratic nominee. It means nothing."

But the General's email this morning says:

My pledge to you is to remain involved in the political process. And I ask you to do the same, because there is just too much at stake this election.

We cannot allow George W. Bush and the Republicans to play politics with national security.

We must reclaim the values of faith, family, patriotism, and inclusive leadership for America.

We must do everything in our power to send George W. Bush back to Texas and return the White House to its rightful owner -- the American people.

In short, I ask you to stick with me and support the Democratic nominee.

He has endorsed John Kerry and I don't read his email message as saying he will be getting back in the race. I think he is making all the right decisions, myself.

[TacticalPeek]

30. Re-draft Clark?

God knows I want Clark to run against Bush.

But he should only do this if the powers that be come low-crawling to him begging and pleading and begging some more, which would inoculate him from the "crazy Perot" syndrome. That will only happen if Kerry and Edwards are driven into the ditch by the R's and pundits EARLY, say the next few weeks. They are unlikely to do that, since the real Big Mud will only start flying after the convention.

I think the only reason they did sling a little of their Big Mud last week was due to the severe problems Shrub was having due to WMD/AWOL/MTP/SOTU, and they had to get his nose back above the water.

[BootinUp]

31. sounds spot on to me

[truebrit71]

32. In a frickin' heartbeat....America NEEDS Wes Clark!!

n/t

[democratreformed]

33. A GOOD CLARK ARTICLE

Link: http://www.pahrumpvalleytimes.com/2004/02/18/opinion/myers.html

Wesley Clark dropped out of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination this week, and before he fades from our view it would be useful to take a good look at just what he brought to the race.
There were those who, concerned more with party credentials than the public interest, challenged Clark's right to run as a Democrat. At candidate debates he was asked to justify his recent decision to be a party member. But what defined Clark as a Democrat was not longevity of membership but fidelity of principle. There was a time when tax fairness virtually defined the Democratic Party. It no longer does. The party is so wired into corporate corruption that it is a betrayal of everything for which it once stood. If a Democrat steps out of line long enough to support the poor and middle class, she or he is likely to be attacked by "leaders" like Joe Lieberman, who last year attacked Al Gore for Gore's halfhearted economic populism.

Clark tried to reverse that. Where other candidates tinkered with tax "reform" (every screwing of the public in the last 40 years has been done in the name of tax reform) he proposed a bold stroke to "restore progressivity to the tax system." A family of four with an income of up to $50,000 a year would have been exempted from the income tax altogether. A single parent with one child making up to $28,000 a year would also have been exempted (with a sliding scale to cover other circumstances).
SNIP

Remember that this fall when we see the imitation Democrats chasing after corporate campaign "contributions" while trying hard to forget Wesley Clark, who made the mistake of reminding them of what a real Democrat represents.

[Adelante]

35. Thanks, does the heart good to read that

:loveya:

Damn :cry:

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. Now, now....

it'll be OK. :) :hug:

[krkaufman]

41. Good article, thanks.

I'm surprised Wes didn't call the other Dems in the debates on their Dino credentials. Nixon was a better Democrat than most of those we have today.

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. Great article!

I LOVE the "imitation Democrats" line. How true is that?

[TexasSissy]

34. Nonsense about Clark getting back in. He endorsed Kerry already.

He won't go back on his word. That's his strong point - credibility. So that's a nonsensical rumor, as the article states.

I don't think it was a Repub conspiracy that put Edwards in a strong 2nd place in Wisconsin. That happened, though not to the same degree, in Iowa. Edwards almost won OK from Clark, as well. This follows the pattern of voters voting for Edwards. Nothing unusual about it. Also, Edwards is more moderate than Kerry & did great in the Wisconsin debate, so it jives with the fact that he got so many last minute votes. It makes sense.

[BL_Zebub]

36. Actually, the thought did occur to me that Clark might pull a "Ross Perot"

And jump back in the race. But if you remember, Perot didn't get anywhere near his previous support level when he re-entered the 1992 campaign, and I doubt the General would either. Plus, he endorsed Kerry, which is something Perot never would have done. Had Clark not already done that, I'm sure rumors of a Dean/Clark third party would already be circulating. And they would have this Devil's support. :evilgrin:

[Adelante]

37. "rumors of a Dean/Clark third party"

A narrow escape, indeed. :evilgrin:

[Carolina]

42. he would have to be drafted again

To drop out and then endorse Kerry in 48 hours time span before Super Tuesday was not the best move and surely didn't set well with many supporters, this drafter included. It would have been better had he simply suspended his campaign.

Jumping back in now looks and feels seedy. The media wanted a Kerry-Edwards primary contest after Iowa and that's where we are. :shrug:

[MoonRiver]

43. I just don't see it. This behavior is not Wes.

He seems to be a very decisive person. I believe he meant what he said when he announced his race for the PRESIDENCY is over. There's a very real possibility he'll be Kerry's VP though, and President in 2012. He won't be too old. Look at Bob Dole, he's in his 80's and people all thought he was going to drop dead any moment 12 years ago.

I think I'll always grieve Clark not getting the presidency, and probably giving Americans the most awesome administration ever. But it's done now. If he is not Kerry's VP I've heard he'll probably run for the Senate in AK. That will be a shoe in, and we'll be able to see his wonderful visage on t.v. all the time! I know I'd be watching C-SPAN 2 every chance I got. Or, he might go for Secretary of State in a Kerry adm. The man is definitely not going away.

[robbedvoter]

44. Beginning - on the nose. Wild speculations on his return

But Wasquez is a genius at reading media shenanigans!

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. She has nailed

what would happen in this primary race. She was spot on!