A note about us Black folks and our "Blackcents" as it relates to Barack's church appearance

[wndycty]

I posted this in another thread but I felt it deserves its own:

Barack's "Blackcent" is not pandering its natural. When I'm around my extended family, when I'm in a social setting with Black coworkers, when I'm around my students who are Black, it just kicks in. But its not something that happens just because I'm around other Black folks, it happens in certain situations.

I recently resigned my job with state government and you'd be surprised what happened when we Black folks got together behind closed doors sometimes to talk about internal politics, we would have made Bill O'Reilly proud, however WHENEVER the discussion switched to the business at hand it would disappear.

I grew up in an integrated neighborhood and have friends of all races and sometimes it kicks in around white folks as well.

When I'm working on campaigns, when I'm working with clients, when I'm in front of class or talking to colleagues its not there. When I talk to mom and dad its not there, when I talk to my sister or certain cousins it is, other cousins it isn't. It never kicks in front of my grandma.

Its not even conscious. Can't explain it. In many ways its like being bilingual.

I'm suspect of it when white politicians use it, however I will not criticize them and in the case of Barack its most likely natural.

If there was ever a DU get together don't be surprised if Black DUers use their Blackcents around one another, but not in other situations.

Can I get a witness? ;)

ON EDIT: If you have ever seen me you would see that I'm "light, bright and damn near. . ." so I also use my Blackcent as a way to single to other Black folks that I'm "one of us."

[MonkeyFunk]

1. I agree entirely

and I understand.

In fact, I studied the phenomenon when I studied Sociolinguistics in college. It's perfectly normal.

My other thread, to which you're referring, though, wasn't so much about a "blackcent" but about sounding more "southern". And I wasn't in any way criticizing him for it - I was pointing out that Clinton was attacked for doing the same thing.

[wndycty]

4. You know Hillary is not doing anything different than most folks. . .

. . .it doesn't really bother most of us. Now if Rudy pulls that shit, watch out.

[shireen]

17. agree

I didn't understand why the media was making such a big deal about that church appearance. She shares some common bonds with them, so it's no surprise when she talked that way. It's a way of strengthening the existing connection.

Now if Rudy did it, he would come across as impersonating and mocking them.

[roseBudd]

21. Hilary may not be born southern but she certainly would have picked it up.

I switch up also, and I'm white. I spent my early college years living in the projects.

[Buzz Clik]

2. It's not just Blackcents, it's accents of any kind.

I have had multiple friends -- particularly those from the South -- who instantly revert to the accent of their childhood when they are around family or go back home. I had a colleague from Arkansas who, whenever he returned from visiting his mom back home, practically needed a translator for the first week back at work. I've witnessed the same thing when listening to someone speaking to their family on the phone.

Yep. It is 100% natural.

[Withywindle]

5. Happens to me too.

When I talk with my friends back in SW VA, my accent comes up. Sometimes even just when I talk about them. My SO found it hilarious to hear one side of the phone conversation. It's not conscious or deliberate.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

7. My kids laugh when I revert to my childhood accent on the phone

when I'm talking to my family back "there." :)

[Karenina]

48. I was in a training this weekend

when my very well-spoken hoch deutsch student fielded a call which she quickly terminated. I interrupted her profuse apologies with "So, you're from the south, eh?" We had a good laugh.

If I had a dime for every time I've spoken to someone on the phone, subsequently met them in person only to have to ease them out of their shock, I'd be a very wealthy woman.

And for all those who criticize Madonna for her "fake" accent, I'm here to tell ya, it AIN'T FAKE.

Code-shifting has been a lifelong SURVIVAL TECHNIQUE for me. Sometimes it's conscious, other times not. As a kid I got BEAT UP for not having the "right" accent.

[yellowdogintexas]

10. yes, HIllary did live in ARkansas and the DC area for a long long

time and I bet when she gets sleepy or really relaxed, she can get very Southern sounding. You should hear my sister in Connecticut after about an hour back in Kentucky, or if I visit her, after about 1/2 a day. She sounds like she never left KY and she has been in CT for over 30 years.

[aquart]

3. It's called "code-shifting."

My accent appears and disappears as I cross the river to and from Queens.

[wndycty]

16. Thanks for the term, I never heard it. . .

. . .it really makes sense.

[goodgd_yall]

25. Hey, really?

Never heard of the term either. Yep---Queens. My mother is from there originally; I have a different, yet a noticeable New York accent. When I'm talking to my mother it comes out more strongly---or if we're having a political "discussion." A NY accent is suited for passionate discourse.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. It sounds completely natural and unaffected when Obama does it

That's how I know it's legit.

I've never felt that way about Bush and his phony Texas twang. The guy grew up on the East Coast and went to prep schools and Ivy League colleges, fergodssake. Plus, he's the only one of all his siblings who has the accent. THAT'S a phony accent, IMHO.

[cruadin]

8. I could never figure out how Bush was the only one

in his whole family to have ended up with a Texas accent.. ;-)

[rucky]

9. Witness, here. A friend and former co-worker of mine...

goes to the same church as I do. The school we taught at had all-Black students, and mostly Black faculty, and it was a very professional - all-business environment among colleagues. In the classroom (next to mine), he'd get his Blackcent on when he needed to either get the kids riled up, or settle them down. Get him into church (integrated) on Sunday and he completely cuts loose. Always interesting to see co-workers in different settings - especially when there's a different culture involved.

Anyway, teaching there was an awesome experience, and your post made me think of my friend.

[sniffa]

11. k&r

as a white boy who grew up in the project, i understand; and i do the same thing. it's never intentionaL, it just comes out quite naturaLLy depending on who i'm taLking with.

[soothsayer]

12. It's fun to watch Oprah do it

[monmouth]

13. I had a lot of Jewish friends and would sit with their mothers and grandmothers

when I was in their home. You would not believe how this Irish Jersey girl can do a good Brooklyn Jewish girl, Barbra, eat your heart out!!

[supernova]

14. Most people do this

It's totally not a put on.

In fact most people have several "accents" they use, depending on which group they are with.

[Cha]

38. I know I do..It's too boring

to talk the same way all the time and I've lived all over the country from near the border in California, Hawaii, Florida, New York and many more..and I picked up colloquialisms, accents, and a couple of new languages as well as friends. B-)

[shireen]

15. i do it too ...

When I'm around my extended family, when I'm in a social setting with Black coworkers, when I'm around my students who are Black, it just kicks in.

I'm originally from Malaysia. When I'm talking to family on the phone, my accent changes too, to sound the way I used to talk when I lived there.

Interesting psychology eh? I think it's about strengthening bonds, belonging to a community. I think it's cool. B-)

[Hekate]

18. I grew up in Hawaii. Pidgin is exactly like that: a badge of belonging....

I can't even try to talk da kine on the Mainland, but I can slip into a local-enough accent even after decades away from the Islands. My experience was that for local folks, born and raised in the Islands folks, it's really a mark of a cultural in-group. Which as a non-tannable haole I really wasn't.... but at least I can sound like I didn't just fall off the latest planeload of tourists....

When the hoo-ha about "Ebonics" came along, all I could think of was that the argument on both sides missed the mark. A minority needs it's own lingo, I agree, and if ivory-tower academics want to write papers about it, that's fine. But to succeed in the wider world of education and business, individuals in this society need to be able to fluently navigate the English language and the niceties of spelling and grammar. Ideally, mothers in the home should model this, but the schools have to insist on it from daycare through 12th grade.

Based on reading Obama's autobiography it seems he got the "speak correct English" message both at home and at school, and he is a terrific success in the wider world. He may have learned Pidgin while growing up in Hawaii, but he didn't have much of a black community there, so as far as I can tell he had to learn this other language as an adult. And a good thing, too.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this -- especially as they agree so closely with my own!

Hekate

[Ethelk2044]

19. I Agree. You have to be careful. I normally use it around my family

However, when I am at work I know not to use it. I am the only black there out of 200. I do not feel I can be myself at work. I feel I can be myself at home and around family.

[Bucky]

20. Zelig syndrome

You humans never cease to amuse me. You remind me of that time Nancy Reagan got up and started dancing and clapping and spinning around in a black church in the 80s. Funniest thing I ever saw. I reported it back to the home planet and we called off the invasion immediately.

[illinoisprogressive]

22. Around my french mother, we revert to some little accent when talking to her

I grew up in Kansas City and revert when I hear people with accents similar

[goodgd_yall]

23. So I guess someone said Barack Obama was pandering?!

As many are posting--this is natural to talk in a more casual way among friends and family. I speak differently at work and other occasions from how I speak at home or with friends. I'm an editor and I'm very conscious of my grammar and enunciation at work. And I have a New York accent that is slight or very strong depending on who I'm with or what I'm talking about.

[MonkeyFunk]

39. Nope

nobody said that.

But people DID say it about Hillary Clinton, unfairly, imo. I raised the question of why she was pilloried for it, but the topic never even came up regarding Obama.

[incapsulated]

24. This has been an "issue"?

Man alive.

[youthere]

45. I know, I know.

[Grandrose]

26. Can I get a hallelujah. ....and a Praise Be!

It is so hard to explain and get some people who do not want to understand the relationship African Americans have with the black church!
It is spiritual, social, educational and yes political!
It is not pandering when you are doing something innate and especially in a place where you feel so comfortable and at home! :)

[mopinko]

27. dude, i thought you were italian.

i had no idea. i agree, it is like being bilingual.

so, you quit your job? whassup with that? we need a chicago meetup. i was just saying that to gat in the lounge.

[wndycty]

28. Yup I quit back in May, I planned on leaving in January after the inaugural but. . .

. . .I stayed until the end of the legislative session. I thought I would slowly distance myself from the administration, however after the silly games that went on in Springfield I sped up my distancing. I'm consulting and teaching (never stopped teaching). Business is good, I will work on a few local races(at least one of them will be against candidates backed by my old bosses. . .YIKES, won't be pretty), not doing presidential until after the primaries, however one of my clients is having a presidential forum in Iowa in December so I will be there for a week in December. Another client(entertainment/not political) has me in Las Vegas for 12 days next month.

[mopinko]

29. well, i won't worry about you then.

fact, i think i will let you pick up the check next time i see you. :toast:

[intheflow]

30. I hear ya!

I'm white, grew up in the suburbs, but moved to the Projects as a pregnant teen. It was there that I developed my "blackcent," which I slip into unconciously in certain informal situations, mostly with frinds who go way back to that time.

I was once asked to read Sojourner Truth's (attributed) speech, "Ain't I A Woman," which is written in black vernacular. The thing is, the speech was actually an account by a white male reporting for a local newspaper. So here I am, a white woman, reading a speech as it was written by a white male in the 1850's who's interpreting a black woman's speech! I did the reading (it was part of my job at the time), but I felt very, very uncomfortable doing it it felt like I was appropriating culture. Worse was the army of white people who came up afterwards amazed at my ability to talk that way, as if I were speaking another language. :puke:

[jgraz]

31. Everyone does this

The linguists even have a name for it: "diglossia". Many people use one form of language when speaking formally and another form among family or friends, or when in a familiar culture. Germans, Italians, Greek, Arabs and many other languages have the "High" dialect and the vernacular. My family has its share of physicians, attorneys, engineers and so on, but we sound like the cast of the Sopranos when we get together.

For some reason, Black politicians always have to explain this while southern whites can turn their accents on and off with impunity. Of course, the worst offender is our own Chimpy in Chief who still can't shake the Connecticut yankee out of that fake Texan drawl.

I really hope the Rethugs make an issue of this and Obama turns it around on them and the Chimperor. That would be fun to see.

[beaconess]

34. Excellent point - John Edwards is a perfect example

While he never completely loses his accent, he sure sounded different when he was speaking on the Senate floor or giving a major policy address than he does when he's working a crowd in South Carolina! It's perfectly natural, but no one ever brings it up when white politicians do it.

[beaconess]

32. Preach!

You're dead on!

[rasputin1952]

33. From a Sociological POV, we all go that which we are most

comfortable with in given situations.

When I was in the Army, every third word was "fuck", "shit" or some other so called obscenity. I twas as natural as can be. In certain circumstances, I can hold my own w/the best of them on a somewhat more sophiticated level, and if absolutely necessary, I can be about as civil as a human can be...perfect inclection, diction, sentence structure. etc.

My favorite diatribe from my Army days was a Sgt Major that came up with a pefectly viable sentence to a soldier: "Fuck! Fucking fucker's fucked, fuck it!" 5 "fucks" and an "it", everyone around him knew exactly what he meant...:D

[alfredo]

35. Under certain situations the country boy comes out in me. I start

talking like a hick. The Shively boy comes out in me. It is like being bilingual like you said.


Think of yourself as an expatriate. Around fellow countrymen you can feel like you are home. There's a cultural familiarity. It's comforting.

[mulsh]

36. Intersting thing about accents

my closest friend's father is from Scotland, he was educated in British public schools, lectured at Oxford before emigrating to the USA to teach at Cal. When ever he goes back to Scotland he has a very thick Scottish burr for a month or so. I have friends from the south who do the same thing when they go home.

Being from Oakland, with half my family being black I think I know a thing or two about "blackcents". For instance I know that the people who accuse Barak of "pandering" are racist M-f-ers trying to cause some damage to his campaign. or maybe they just haters, know what I'm saying, dog?

[MadMaddie]

37. You can get a witness...Amen...

This is a true fact....it happens to me all of the time. I go down south where my folks are and it just seeps in...and before you know it....

My mom is light, bright and damn near.....my dad I would say not so bright....me...dark mocha.....but in business no one knows if they listen to me....

But let me hook up with any of the 2% of the black population in the Seattle Area......hmmm....mmmm..sho nuf......sho you right!:-)

[Skittles]

40. I believe you

because some coworkers of mine - they "slip up" (or whatever), slip in a bit of hood-speak (which I love) and I have a field day with 'em. :D

Man, I've had that song SOME KIND OF WONDERFUL in my head all day and half the night :D

[harlinchi]

41. But isn't it more than just a way of speaking that changes?

I submit it's more. I walk differently in different situations. I respond (either to perceived threats or to ice-breaking openings) differently. I've always referred to a duality in one's nature, a sense of something that approaches schizophrenia, that's required of Blacks who wish to exist in the various spheres in which we find ourselves (corporate/professional; neighborhood/social).

[Odin2005]

42. Accents are funny things.

When I'm chatting with people on campus I talk in a "generalized Midwestern" fashion. When I go back to my hometown to stay with my parents my rural Minnesotan accent comes out.

[FrenchieCat]

43. Here's your "witness".......

I can have a French Accent, a Black Accent, a Business Accent, a New York Accent and a California valley girl accent....depending on who I'm with.

I learned how to speak English (mother tongue is French) by imitating those around me....and there was a variety of folks around. :shrug:

[Catherine Vincent]

44. I let my cajun accent slip from time to time.

And I wasn't even raised in Louisiana. :)

[youthere]

46. I have kind of the same thing...

I live in Iowa, but grew up in Wisconsin (Wiscaaaahnsin) and the second I cross back over the Mississippi, I start speaking like a cheddarhead again.

[WCGreen]

47. Just a hint...

We all do that...

When ever people get around folks they are comfortable with, they let it all hang out...

Then you gotta put the game face back on to face everyone else...