Dennis Kucinich has won more elections than Hillary, Obama, and Edwards combined

[John Q. Citizen]

I fail to see how that makes him "unelectible."

[cali]

1. He's never won a state wide election

The other three all have. Dennis is unelectable. I'm voting for him to send a message but I have no illusions. If he gets 10% of the vote in the primaries I'll consider that a huge victory.

[laconicsax]

6. Kucinich is only unelectable as long as people parrot that talking point

It falls under the category of the big lie--the more people insist that he's unelectable, the less other people will vote for him, thus fulfilling that he's unelectable.

If everyone who actually believes that he's the right person for the job votes for him, he'll win the nomination overwhelmingly, like in the DFA poll.

[cali]

7. Sorry, that's simply not true. And saying he doesn't stand a

realistic chance is not a mere "talking point", nor am I parroting anything. Shockingly enough, I come to my own conclusions, and I'm probably less plugged into the MSM than you. No TV, no talk radio, none of that crap.

And the number of people who believe that he's the right person for the job, is just not very large- even if they all vote. The DFA poll measured a tiny minority of activists.

He's unelectable because he doesn't have the money, the campaign structure, or a winning campaign strategy.

I admire Dennis. I'll vote for him in my primary, but I won't labor under a delusion.

[laconicsax]

12. Well let's all just roll over and play dead

[John Q. Citizen]

14. And that's fine. At least you are voting for the best person for the job. But

I would also point out that the term "unelectable" and "won't win" are not the same thing.

There are 8 candidates in the running and we already know that 7 won't win the nomination.

That, however, doesn't make those 7 "unelectable."

[cali]

20. that's true. I just want to send a strong message to

the dem party. If we can do that, I'll be satisfied.

[John Q. Citizen]

21. Me too.

And stranger things have happened, although any realistic person would have to say at this point in time, the likely-hood that Dennis will win the nomination is small.

But as all the candidates in the race know. a week is a year in politics.

Hill could contract some exotic staff infection, Edwards could get into a car wreck, not that I'm hoping for any of that, just that the only constant in life is change. That's why Dodd, Biden, Richardson and everybody is still in the campaign. It's never over until it's over.

[ISUGRADIA]

37. What about any races outside of the Cleveland metro area

He couldn't even break 10% in the 2004 OHIO primary.

[Telly Savalas]

52. If he's really electable then the massive force of grassroots activitsts he has

running his ground game should have no problems dispelling this big lie.

[whistle]

2. Kucinich is electable and is a realist and is a man of great courage and

...has a political sixth sense. I believe he could very well become our next president and that is why he has my support.

[cali]

4. He's polling at 2% or so nationally, although he's doing better

in NH; approximately 7%, I believe. He has no money to speak of, and sadly, he's run a poor campaign, particularly in Iowa. I don't see how anyone can realistically believe that he has a real chance at the nomination.

[EFerrari]

11. If we don't choose him, it will be so much our loss. n/t

[EFerrari]

3. I didn't know that.

lol

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Well, I don't have a complete count of Dennis' election victories, but he has five

terms in Congress, 2 elections as Mayor, (first and the recall) and at least 3 as a city counsel man, he served in the Ohio Senate, and I think he had some other city posts as well.

So we are looking at 11 or 13 elected posts.

Hill has 2, Edwards has 1 and Obama has one in the US Senate and, what, 2 in the IL statehouse?

I'm not claiming to have a perfect count of all of the candidates, but even a cursory count shows that Dennis has been elected easily more times than the three others combined.

[LWolf]

5. Great point. n/t

[Cleita]

8. The media, the Democratic Party and many others are trying to make him

irrelevant by passing him over in several venues where the other candidates were invited to appear, as well as spreading the meme that he is unelectable. The truth is that they are afraid of him.

We need to support Dennis from a grass roots place. I already have my bumper sticker on my car and I will answer any questions about him that are asked. There is a dedicated group of people who are working to get the vote out for him in my community. Everyone should be doing the same.

[EFerrari]

10. Me, too, Cleita. I've tried to contact his campaign although

it might not be very important here where I live.

It's significant that, given his election record, he's called "unelectable". Shades of Rove attacking strength.

[Cleita]

13. You might have to give his campaign in the area a

prod in the right direction, or start one of your own.

[EFerrari]

17. The problem with advocating for progressives here

for a campaign is that most of them feel other areas need more tending. They may be right in that respect but they're wrong to deprive the campaign of skills that can be deployed from here to other areas.

We have to get smart about deploying our resources to other areas via technology. My Green friends in L.A., for example, volunteered to phone bank for Kerry in swing states evenings and weekends. That's thinking outside the box, creative thinking and a smart use of what we have at our disposal. I hope DK's campaign is smart enough to go that route.

[davidinalameda]

15. and how many people voted for him in those elections

as opposed to say how many people voted for Hillary in her two elections

it's not the number of elections but the number of voters

[EFerrari]

18. Democrats are going to win big this time out. Why not fight

to get a truly progressive candidate in there?

Or, we could play it safe and run someone who will get out the Republic base when at this point, they just want to forget the whole thing. :eyes:

[John Q. Citizen]

19. No, it the misuse of the term "unelectable." If someone said that

it's likely he won't win the nomination, that would be at least intellectually honest.

The fact is that 7 of the 8 people running for the office won't win the nomination.

That however doesn't make them unelectable, because clearly, they have all won elections in the past, and are all electable.

Dennis has already recieved far more votes for the Democratic nomination for President than either Hill or Obama. Because he ran in 04 and recieved votes.

So I'm not trying to claim here that Dennis is likely to win the nomination. I'm just trying to educate people as to the lie that he is "unelectable."

[Cleita]

23. Good point.

It's the use of the wrong words to influence people's minds.

[nancyharris]

33. Using your rational

Zeb Miller is "electable"

[davidinalameda]

40. he is unelectable

he is facing a different set of voters

the voters in his district are used to him

the voters he'd have to face in a presidential election aren't

his quirks don't translate well to a bigger audience

we're living in an age of 10 second sound-bites and candidates like him don't do well

his proposal for a Department of Peace is a fantastic idea and I have a vague idea about why he'd push something like that but the average person probably doesn't

we need more idealists like him but unfortunately the system is stacked against him

[smoogatz]

16. Yeah, but the number of people voting for him in those elections

is relatively small, and as voters in a single northern Ohio district they're much more homogeneous politically than the electorate in even a statewide election would be. Nice try, though.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. Please see post #19. It addresses your comments. And I'd like to add,

that if you check out the Pew Research website, Dennis' platform is clearly the most mainstream of any of our candidates. His issues and solutions best reflect the thinking of the American public as a whole.

[smoogatz]

29. Sort of, if you're parsing "not unelectable" to mean something other than

"capable of winning a national election." I don't think anyone's arguing that Kucinich isn't electable in his home district; of course he is. But that means nothing in a national election, obviously. If you're interested in electoral history, you might research the following: who was the last sitting U.S. Rep to win the presidency? Who was the last former U.S. Rep to win the presidency without having first been elected to the Senate? Who was the last former or sitting U.S. Rep to win the nomination of a major U.S. political party without having first served in the Senate?

As for Kucinich's stand on the issues: sure, he talks a good game, and if Gore doesn't run I'll gladly vote for him if he's still on the ballot when our primary rolls around. I doubt he will be though—without money and organization and the support of a decent chunk of the electorate, his candidacy is essentially moot. The American people are ready to elect a centrist woman and a center-left black man, but I don't think they're ready to elect a leftist Afred E. Newman.

[John Q. Citizen]

32. or for that matter, speaking of history, who was the last blackman or white woman

to win the Presidency?

I don't think that makes either Hillary or Obama unelectable, although that has been raised as a possibilty by many.

What evidence do you have to predict the future, in terms of "The American people are ready..." That's just a guess. You may be right but you may be wrong.

Check out The Pew Research website. Dennis is as mainstream as it gets in terms of his issues and his solutions.

When you have to resort to slurs such as leftists Alfred etc, it kind of undermines your whole argument.

[smoogatz]

36. Well, there's the polls.

That's evidence of a sort, with certain predictive qualities. And it's not a slur: Kucinich really does look like Alfred E. Newman. I would think even the most ardent Kucinichniks would have noticed it by now.

[smoogatz]

38. I should add that his uncanny resemblence to Aflred E

doesn't bother me in the least. I don't care if he looks like Yoda crossed with Cary Grant.

[itsrobert]

24. He's also lost more elections than all three combined

To put it in perspective. Also, maybe he should run for a state wide office, before trying to tackle the White House?

[John Q. Citizen]

26. Yes, he's certainly a more experienced campaigner, both from the

perspective of winning and losing, than all three combined.

However, running and winning a state wide campaign, while definitely good for name recognition, political visibility and possibly improving his chances of winning the nomination, certainly isn't a prerequisite for either winning or for good leadership.

Washington, Lincoln, and Eisenhower come to mind. Of course two of those were Generals and had visibility due to that. Kind of like Clark.

But the point of my post still remains, that anybody who says Dennis is unelectable is incorrect.

[nancyharris]

25. He didn't even get 10% of the Ohio primary votes in 2004

Cngressman Kucinich received only 9% of the Ohio Democratic primary vote in 2004. If he cannot even get 10% of the Democratic vote in his own state, how can you possibly expect him to win a national election?

[John Q. Citizen]

28. I don't expect for 7 of our 8 candidates to win the national election

in 08.

That doesn't make any of them "unelectable" it just means they won't be Presdient in 08.

Where, in the OP or in any of my posts do I say that I expect Dennis will be elected President in 08?

I do expect you to read the OP before you reply, though. Is that too much to expect?

[nancyharris]

30. "unelectable" for what?

If it isn't the presidency than what are you referring to?

If any of the candidates do not receive 10% of the Democratic votes in their own state they have absolutely no chance for the nomination and thus the Presidency - They are "unelectable"!

[John Q. Citizen]

46. Edwards failed to carry his state in 04, Gore failed to carry his state in 00,

so are you suggesting they are both "unelectable."

[nancyharris]

50. Vice-President Gore

not only won the 2000 Democratic primary in his home state of Tennessee but also won all 50 of the Democratic primaries and caucuses. Congressman Kucinich lost 50 consecutive Democratic primaries and caucuses including his home state of Ohio where he was unable to gain even 10% of the Ohio Democratic Party votes. He is "Unelectable"!

Edwards won both the North and South Carolina Primaries in 2004. In his home start of North Carolina he beat Senator Kerry by 25% points. In his home state of Ohio, Congressman Kucinich lost the 2004 Democratic primary to Senator Kerry by 43% points. He is unelectable"!

[Yukari Yakumo]

27. Simple

It's because a House member is in office for two years, as opposed to a Senate term being six.

Plus Senators run a state wide campaign. With the exception of a small handful, Representatives do not.

Kuch is not electable because he has never been proven to be a viable candidate outside of his niche area.

[stray cat]

31. How many states has he carried in all his elections?

since running for president requires an ability to win nationally.

[dsc]

34. He also has lost more elections than they did

In total they lost one and Dennis has lost at least three and I think four. He lost reelection to mayor of Cleveland, a Congressional primary in 1992 (it was an open seat), and a primary for governor.

[Countdown_3_2_1]

35. On the other hand, he's never won a Primary

Past victories mean nothing is he can pull out of last place.

[shenmue]

39. In Ohio.

What about the other 49 states?

[TSIAS]

41. This isn't a valid argument

First off, I like Kucinich and he's in my Top 3 of candidates.

However, there's no comparison between winning a House race and the Presidency.

One might say that Dana Rohrerbacher and Bob Dornan are "winners" because they were consistently re-elected in California. But if they were put on the ballot statewide, they'd lose in a landslide.

Gerrymandering and redistricting have created these sorts of safe seats for the opposition party. It's why Robert Wexler can get 90 % of the vote in his Florida congressional district, but it hurts our Party in the long run.

[John Q. Citizen]

44. Dennis won his seat in '97 against a Repo incumbant in a seat the Repos had held for

something like 30 years. ( forget exactly how long, but it was considered to be a "safe" Repo district.)

That said, you are missing the point of my OP.

A number of Dennis' detractors have tried to make the spurious claim that Dennis is "unelectable." I'm merely pointing out that by definition, Dennis is certainly electable.

[LWolf]

42. Many will "fail," deliberately, to see your point, lol. n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

45. I'm not sure if it's deliberate or not, but many aren't arguing the OP, and

instead are arguing some other post they read, or some other post they meant to write, but haven't.

[LWolf]

49. That's what people do when they can't muster

a strong argument on point. ;)

[Basileus Basileon]

43. In one district in Ohio. I fail to see how that makes him electable on a national level. nt

[John Q. Citizen]

47. Any Dem is electable this year, even a Northern Liberal, such as Biden.

[Basileus Basileon]

51. That may be, but that is a different issue. nt

[WCGreen]

48. The other side of that coin is that DK has lost more elections than

both combined...

[ronnykmarshall]

53. and so did Jessie Helms and Strom Thurman.

What's your point?