If Hillary wants to be elected in her own right, why doesn't she return to the name Rodham?

[saracat]

She "attempted " to hang on to her maiden name originally but when it seemed the voters of Arkansas wouldn't "reelect" Bill because she didn't take his name, she caved and started to use Clinton.Other than riding on Bill's coat tails, and I think everyone now knows who she is married to, why doesn't she now revert to Rodham? I would have a bit more respect for her if she did, though I will never respect the callous political tactic that caused her to take her husbands name.As usual, when it got bumpy, Hillary caved, in spite of her declarations of "independence".But what reason does she now have for clinging to the Clinton name, other than creating an illusion that people will be electing Bill again?

[MaineDem]

1. She'd be criticized if she did that, too

It just seems she can't win with some people.

(And I'm not a Clinton supporter.)

[saracat]

2. But at least she would be criticized for taking a stand instead of waffling!

And presidential candidates are supposed to be criticized.It goes with the territory.That should not be a reason to avoid principles.

[asdjrocky]

4. Agreed.

[bunnies]

3. Just be glad she's not going by "Hill Clinton".

Too obvious I spose.

[Debi]

82. Oh good one!

:spray:

[TwilightZone]

5. Oh, please.

This is getting ridiculous. If she reverted to Rodham, people would whine that she was trying to distance herself from Bill.

This is one of the pettiest criticisms I can ever recall seeing on DU about *any* candidate.

[saracat]

10. Why? She declared herself a 'feminist ' and kept her name in the 1970's and caved to expediency

in the 80's to reelect Bill.She sold out feminisim for her spouses election and that isn't "petty" to me. I speak as a woman who kept her name and did so under great criticism. Hillary wants to be the first woman president and It would be great if the first woman president would be elected as an individual and not as someone's "wife".

[Lucinda]

30. It's her business saracat. Not yours.

[saracat]

43. Not so.I object to her being willing to sellout her identiy to make political points.

And that is my concern as a voter.

[Lucinda]

52. You our concern as a voter revolves around the name a married woman chooses to use? Seriously?

That explains a lot.
Thanks for the clarification.

[saracat]

58. NO.My concern is with someone who "sells" their identity.

[MonkeyFunk]

66. Why doesn't

Elizabeth Anania use her real name? Huh?!?! HUH!?!?! Is she afraid to be an independent woman?!?!?!

[saracat]

67. She didn't start out using her own name as a "statement".Hillary did.

Hillary was vested in the name Rodham and only dropped it for the sake of Bill's election because polling said it would hurt his reelection. He had already lost once.So she sold out to help Bill get elected.Elizabeth Edwards has always been Elizabeth Edwards since her marriage.This is not about a woman's choice to keep her name.This is about political calculation of principles.

[MonkeyFunk]

68. I disagree

It's about petty, silly, mindless attacks on a candidate who happens to be beating your candidate.

[saracat]

71. We disagree.And I have the right to my opinion.I do not consider the sellout of a declared identity

"petty".I also do not respect selling out the principles one allegedly believes in"petty" or a non issue.But then, some have no issues whatsoever with anything this candidate does.Ties to Murdoch? Fine? Vote on Iwar? Fine? Hiring ,Mark Penn, known union buster, currently representing lead based toy manufacturers and Black water? Fine. Hillary could eat a live baby in Times Square and some would justify her actions and that is very sad. Whatever. We differ in what is "petty". Identity is very important to me. "If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything".That sums up Hillary for me.She has never taken a difficult stand on anything and stuck to it. She has always taken the most politically expedient stand for herself, even when it meant selling out herself.

[Lucinda]

74. People lost loved ones today. People went to bed hungry today. What surname Hillary chooses to use

means nothing to me.

[Auntie Bush]

79. So did a lot of women...later to change their minds.

That doesn't make them sellers of their identity. Can't You find something more important to criticize?

[Auntie Bush]

78. Truer words were never spoken. I'd be ashamed to post crap like that.

If this post gets approval...no wonder Dems lose elections. They think kind of screwy.

[rufus dog]

6. She would get hammered for using her maiden name.

[maddiejoan]

7. Please tell me this is a satirical post.

I can't believe this is serious.

[TwilightZone]

11. Oh, it's serious. Hillary's name is the defining issue of the election.

It's so much more important than silly things like health care, Iraq, education, etc.

[saracat]

14. in her case it is.She is running on her spouse's record. And it is more

important to her campaign than those other issues.

[Basileus Basileon]

23. So if she's running on her role in the White House in 1993-2001, why would you ask her to

make a 180-degree turnaround, change her name, and start distancing herself from her husband? That would be the biggest flip-flop in memory.

[saracat]

26. .Maybe that way she would be presenting herself honestly instead of pretending Bill is being

being reelected!

[Basileus Basileon]

28. I thought a fundamental complaint regarding HRC would be

that she would continue Bill Clinton's strategy of triangulation and centrism, in effect selling out the liberal wing of the party. So you're saying that line of reasoning is inaccurate? That Hillary Clinton would not be a continuation of the Bill Clinton presidency?

(I don't see how "Changing your name and pretending you had nothing to do with the eight years you were a chief policy advisor in the White House, nor the eight years you spent in the Senate" is "presenting yourself honestly")

[saracat]

39. I have no idea what she would do.She doesn't let anyone know.

She is inconsistent and AFAIK, has never taken a difficult stand on any issue.(other than health care, which wasn't a difficult stand so much as a botched effort and a sellout to lobbyists)All I know is if she would sell out her identity for political expedience, she would sell out anything and call it "compromise".

[Basileus Basileon]

And that would represent a break from Bill Clinton?

[mtnsnake]

16. Maybe that explains why 4 other geniuses recommended this (SNICKER)

I'm sure before long, the rest of the locksteppers will send it to the GP. lol

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

60. LOL, yep, every trash the Dem candidate for "fill in the blank" has those guaranteed R's

Usually barely enough to get to the greatest...

:rofl: MKJ

[Basileus Basileon]

80. That, I think, is we need anti-recs (but not below 0, to avoid the shame factor). As it stands, we

promote divisive posts.

[mitchtv]

37. Hahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahahahahahaha
(it was to me)

[durrrty libby]

61. Some just need attention,that's all

[cuke]

8. Maybe she is "senile"

What do you think?

[johncoby2]

9. Who really gives a shit?

STFW?

[saracat]

20. I do.I want a woman with self respect to be our first woman president, not someone who sells out

at the first difficulty.How can one argue for "equality" for all women when one can't even retain one's own name after allegedly fighting to retain it as a sign of independence and equality?When one is willing to surrender ones own 'identity for political expedience one wonders what else would be surrendered for political expedience.

[mtnsnake]

31. Yeah, I'm sure you'd be oozing over with a new respect & admiration for her if she changed her name

I gotta give it to ya, saracat. You are funny.
:thumbsup:

[Basileus Basileon]

47. That would be the most ridiculous flip-flop in modern campaign history.

[mitchtv]

41. MOST CHICKENSHIT POST OF THE DAY

A DUzy

[mtnsnake]

50. There's no need to be so nasty to her

You don't have to scream with capitals and I don't see how her post was "chickenshit"

[mitchtv]

55. nasty is as nasty does

I generally shy away from Caps, but this is the most asinine hate Hill post to come along in weeks. Sorry I hurt your sensibilities

[cuke]

87. You must have missed her "McGovern is senile" post

because he endorsed Clinton

[cali]

53. i think that post is sad

and deranged. and yes I'm serious. Same goes for the OP.

[ilovesunshine]

12. She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't around here.

[Basileus Basileon]

13. Because her name is Hillary Clinton.

Why doesn't John Edwards change his name to John Sdrawde? Keeping the name "John Edwards" might give people the illusion that they were voting for the centrist candidate who was in the Senate, or the hawkish-but-compassionate moderate who ran for Vice President.

Why doesn't Barack Obama change his name to Dante Jones? Keeping the name "Barack Obama" might give people the illusion that they were voting for a scary foreign terrorist, instead of an African-American.

Why doesn't Chris Dodd change his name? It couldn't hurt at this point.

[saracat]

15. Funny.She was Hillay Rodham before Bill lost the first time.Expedient name change.

[Basileus Basileon]

18. And now she's Hillary Clinton, as she's been for as long as she's been in the national

spotlight. Why are you suggesting she waffle on her name?

[TwilightZone]

17. I guess that Elizabeth Edwards is a sellout, too. Damn her for taking her husband's name!

Ditto with Elizabeth Kucinich.

How dare they take their husbands' names? Fricking sellouts.

[Basileus Basileon]

19. Also, one or both needs to change their first name. Elizabeth Edwards might

trick people into thinking they were voting for the man married to the pretty redhead, and Elizabeth Kucinich might trick people into thinking they were voting for the man with the wife with cancer.

[saracat]

24. They are not running for office or have ever made an issue of name retention.

Nor are they riding their spouses coat tails politically.

[cuke]

29. Michelle Obama got a nice raise after Barak was elected

but no, no coat tails there

[terisan]

21. "Maiden name" ? Try birth name. An American has the right to use the name he or she chooses.

.... maiden name, clinging, caved, riding coattails.....what does it all mean?

Years ago Gary Hart was blasted for his name change.

I may read all sorts of intent into your choice of your DU name, but naturally I will defend your right to make the choice.

[bcoylepa]

22. nothing easy about names

I kept my own 30 years ago when I got married - gave my kids both of ours - it gets complicated - my own mom only uses my husbands name on mail- there is no right way on this imho

[saracat]

34. I also kept mine and would never change it even for my husband's campaign.I do not judge the act of

taking a name only the reasons.Hillary only took Bill's name for political expedience for his gubernatorial race after he 'lost'.Odd, he won the first time while she was "Rodham' but they concluded his "los" was because of her name.I just say she no longer has a reason to be Clinton.Even if she just went by Hillary , we know who she is married to.Undoubtedly the use of the Clinton name is beneficial to her now and is more important than her identity.

[LoZoccolo]

25. She served as a Senator with the Clinton name.

Hillary Clinton is allowing Americans to be able to recognize her contributions in the U.S. Senate. The congressional record has all her votes down as "Clinton", for instance.

[Basileus Basileon]

27. And if she changed it, everyone would be (rightly) whining that she was running away from her record

[HockeyMom]

32. Doesn't she use both?

Hillary Rodham Clinton. Nothing wrong with that. If my "birth surname" and married surname sounded right together, I would use both also.

[saracat]

36. She hasn't been recently.Not for a couple of years.

[Basileus Basileon]

38. Sure she hasn't.

http://clinton.senate.gov/

[TwilightZone]

42. You beat me to it....

:)

[saracat]

44. Show me some campaign lit where she stresses "Rodham".

[Basileus Basileon]

45. She usually just goes by "Hillary" in her campaign lit.

[ElizabethDC]

65. I have campaign lit with "Rodham" on it.

I don't have my scanner here with me, though, so I can't show it to you.

[Auntie Bush]

81. So Hillary is being pillaged because she doesn't use her maiden name?

Have you nothing else to do tonight?

[TwilightZone]

40. Her Senate website uses Hillary Rodham Clinton

http://clinton.senate.gov/

[ElizabethDC]

64. She still uses the "Hillary Rodham Clinton" in many cases

mail that I've received from her campaign often comes on stationary that says "Hillary Rodham Clinton" at the top, and that's what it says for the return address as well. So she still uses both.

Sometimes she uses the Rodham, sometimes she doesn't. As someone with two last names myself, I understand using part of it sometimes and the whole thing at other times.

[Bitwit1234]

33. NOW WOMEN are supposed to use their husbands names gee whiz.

[saracat]

46. They are? Why?

[HughMoran]

35. Clinging to the Clinton name!! LMAO! As if you need a reason to criticize Clinton!!

Your MO is totally obvious around here!I'm not that enamored with Hillary, but your posts tend to drive me her way!

[babylonsister]

48. I think this is a non-issue myself; she can and should use any name

she wants.

[cali]

49. do you have no idea how you present yourself?

you don't come off well when you post something like this. I won't go into details. It makes me sad for you.

[Catherine Vincent]

85. I hate the fact that she is using Mrs. Edwards pic as her avatar.

It's very unbecoming to a good woman with all the bile this poster spews here.

[Tejanocrat]

51. She was using "Rodham" for a while, but it didn't do well in the focus groups.

[saracat]

56. Exactly.

[Tom Rinaldo]

54. She is taking a common sense course on this one

Hillary already consciously reintroduced her maiden name into her political identity. Lots of people know what it is. How many people know Elizabeth Edward's maiden name? Or Nancy Pelosi's maiden name?

But she is mostly known world wide as Hillary Clinton, and secondarily as Hillary Rodham Clinton. It would be bizarre for her now to suddenly drop Clinton from her name. The only reasonable reason to do so now would be to make some kind of strong statement distancing herself from Bill, but he happens to still be her husband as well as her political partner. That message would make no sense.

[maddiejoan]

57. Don't all her campaign posters --

--just say "Hillary"?

[Tom Rinaldo]

62. Don't know if all do, but many certainly do.

I think that may be because it places an emphasis on her being a woman, but I'm not exactly in the campaign loop. She also is known by her first name more than some other pols. I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if Arnold Schwartneger didn't have campaign buttons with "Arnold" on them without his last name also. Sometimes it's a nickname that gets picked up on instead. I wouldn't be surprised to see some Rudy posters used either.

Maybe it is to help her carve out a seperate identity. I suppose it would be hard to get elected President known mostly as someone else's spouse.

[emilyg]

59. Silly question.

[ruggerson]

63. I was sitting with Hillary in her car last night

and she said she keeps it just to annoy the hell out of you.

[Perry Logan]

69. We should put this thread in the "When Dems Go Bad" section.

[Tom Rinaldo]

70. Of course this whole "issue" underscores sexism

Men running for office never have to face this question in our society. Except for uncommon and purely intentional instances, their "maiden name" and their own last name are always one and the same. No one ever asks men what political statement they are making or not making by taking on or abandoning their wife's last name. No one ever says that a man should or should not use this or that last name in order to be elected in his own right.

Men don't have to worry about offending this or that voter by their choice of keeping or not keeping, using or not using, their maiden name after they get married. It simply is assumed that the name a man is born with will stay with him all of his life, and no one considers him a sexist for following through on that assumption, and no one thinks him unsupportive of women's equality if he does so either. Men are not faced with having their choice of last name scrutanized and criticized for the political statement that it does or does not make. Only women are faced with this issue when they attempt to establish their own professional identity in American society. The most a woman can hope for in politics is for no one to care what last name she chooses to use, but it is rare in politics when no one can be found to care about anything. So instead it becomes a special grounds for being attacked by some politically that is unique to women only.

It is bad enough for anyone to be faced with a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. It is sexism on top of that when only one gender has to deal with it.

[TwilightZone]

72. Excellent point. We certainly aren't going to see this as a criticism of any of the male candidates.

The fact that we're seeing it at all is pretty sad, especially on a "progressive" website.

[Skittles]

83. it's pure sexism that women ever change their names

I find it pitiful that women still do this

[gulliver]

73. My understanding is that she wears makeup also.

Why? Is she afraid to show us what she really looks like? What kind of a lying, phony hag has to resort to cosmetics? What do other women think of that? I know men hate it.

I don't have any proof, but it's a cinch she uses deodorant. Why doesn't she return to non-deodorized like the rest of us honest people?

[hayu_lol]

75. We live in a time when men take the wive's maiden name, when kids have...

hyphenated names, and we have had professional women for many years who use their maiden names instead of their married names.

Since Hillary was an attorney, Hillary Rodham may have been her professional name. To simplify licenses etc, it may have been easier.

You do notice that men do not usually have this problem...perhaps you should discuss this terrible/horrible problem with Gloria Steinem.

She is apparently proud of her maiden name--kudos for her.

Before we go further, what candidate do you support Sara?

[dpbrown]

76. What a nonissue that is

I don't care why she changed her name in the first place and I think it would be beyond idiotic for her to change her name now.

Senator Clinton is the status quo Democratic candidate for President. Changing her name now would run against the grain of the product she's packaged as.

[Auntie Bush]

77. Ridiculous post! Beyond the pale!

[Catherine Vincent]

84. Such bullshit. "I would have a bit more respect for her if she did"

You and all your posts are BULLSHIT.

[polichick]

86. At least she doesn't ask to be called Hillary Diane...

It drove me crazy when I moved to a traditional Catholic area and all the women went by two first names (like Anna Marie and Kathryn Ann).