Bill Clinton under fire for treatment of Obama; Panetta: He needs to keep an eye on history

[DeepModem Mom]

LAT: Ex-president supportive to a fault?
Bill Clinton comes under fire from some old allies for his harsh treatment of Obama, a chief rival of his wife.
By Mark Z. Barabak, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
December 21, 2007

From Washington to Sacramento, a generation of Democrats enjoys power and prosperity thanks to Bill Clinton, who ran for president as a fresh face representing hope and change. A number of those graying Clintonites are now rallying behind Barack Obama, another national newcomer, who offers youth, optimism and an echo of that promise to upend the status quo. Thus, many find it more than a little unsettling -- and dismaying -- that the former president is targeting the Illinois senator with the same kind of criticism that Clinton faced in 1992. Reed Hundt, who attended law school with Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton, said he admired them both even though he was not supporting the New York senator's White House bid. But he questioned some of the ex-president's recent statements, including a suggestion that a vote for the Illinois senator was like rolling the dice....

***

Even some supporters of Sen. Clinton question her husband's turn to negative campaigning. "He's got to take the high road," said Leon E. Panetta, chief of staff in President Clinton's first term. "He's strongest when he praises Hillary. He's weakest when he comes out as the attack dog."...

Bill Clinton remains a much-beloved figure among Democrats as the candidate who won the White House, held it for two terms and introduced a new vocabulary, with words like responsibility, community service and reform, that helped remake the party's losing image. For some who worked to elect Clinton or served in his administration, having to choose between their old boss (or, more precisely, his wife) and Obama is almost like having to choose between Mom and Dad. "I love the guy; I really do," said Mitchell Schwartz, who helped engineer Clinton's pivotal 1992 win in New Hampshire and now runs Obama's California campaign. He shrugs off the former president's criticism of his candidate. "He's a political animal, and he's doing what he can to try to help his wife to win," Schwartz said, though he suggested it could hurt Clinton's legacy. "We like to exalt our ex-presidents because they stay out of the political ring. You jump back in, you're not in that exalted position."

But others expressed surprise and disappointment that Clinton, given his elder-statesman status, would engage Obama as if he were the one seeking office. Many of Obama's backers did not want to be quoted by name, out of loyalty to the former president or fearing retribution if Sen. Clinton wins the White House. They suggested the former president had not only hurt his stature by stooping to attack Obama, but said he may be hurting his wife's candidacy. "I don't think he's been helpful by taking the campaign off message and reminding people about why they might not want him back in the White House," said a former administration strategist. "I have a lot of respect for Bill Clinton's policy and political skills . . . but I don't really want to see him back in."

Panetta said Clinton needed to keep at least one eye on history. "As someone respected around the world and respected at home, he's got to be careful he doesn't act like a campaign manager and wind up getting into the kind of mud fights you're going to get into if you run the campaign rather than be a part of the campaign," said Panetta, a former congressman who directs the Panetta Institute at Cal State Monterey Bay. "He's got to be careful he's not the lightning rod making all these attacks."...

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-bill21dec21,1,7431064,full.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

[Cha]

1. Never thought I'd

read leon panetta saying this about "the attack dog"!

[BlueManDude]

8. Pannetta has always been willing to critisize Democrats if it gets his name in the paper

He's always fancied himself one of these "centrists" who is beyond "partisanship".

People forget that he started his career as a GOPer and worked for Nixon.

[Cha]

48. That's why I never thought I

read leon criticizing one of his own.

[Tellurian]

13. But if Clinton were a Republican..

If would be just fine no matter what he said or did. Poppy Bush came out many times and put a lid of the Dem attacks on "W" and when the media and Dems attacked Laura. He went on the Today Show w/ Couric and soulfully warned anyone attacking his family, there would be (paraphrased) hell to pay!(Panneta and company should spent their time reviewing history and look for the interview tapes)

I'm damned sick of these biased armchair warriors who've never been in an election fight in their lives second guessing one of our most powerful Democratic leaders, assailing his election strategy, assigning themselves as the 'etiquette police' of election manners. When in fact all they've ever done is reap the rewards of their benefactors who put their asses on the line everyday in speech and deed backing up everything they say with facts on the front lines of the election battlefield.

If the Clintons were lying about Obama it would be one thing...They're not. The questioning of facts are self evident in Obama's books. What the Clintons are doing, and I agree with their strategy, is holding Obama to the same standards they were held to by the Republican attack machine and the purists of the Democratic Left Wing. It sickens me to read this crap, where the critics who openly support Obama have the unmitigated gall to declare their supposed respect for the Clintons, :eyes: while attempting to dumb down the questions of Obama's past and present history. These potential employees of Obamas' can just sit down and shut up and let the chips fall where they may and go with the survival of the fittest Dem to win this next race.

Oh, right! Then these scumbags would need to be seeking gainful employment elsewhere....I don't care about Panneta and Hundt's wishes or their promise of a job in an Obama White House. They're just looking out for their #1s. I care about my country and who best can bring our country back to what it once was..

Obama is not up to the task. He's "present" but he can't deliver. Obama needs to remember, this ain't bean bag!

[ellisonz]

28. I don't think Panetta needs a job...

Panetta and his wife founded the Leon & Sylvia Panetta Institute for Public Policy in December 1998, where they serve as the Institute's directors. The Institute is located at California State University, Monterey Bay. Panetta was instrumental in creating CSU Monterey by converting Fort Ord, where he was chief of operations and planning of the intelligence section when he was in the army, into the university. Currently, Panetta serves as distinguished scholar to the chancellor of University of California and as Presidential Professor at University of California, Santa Cruz's Politics department, with both universities allowing him to teach. He also teaches once a year at Santa Clara University.

In 2006 he was part of the Iraq Study Group aka the Baker Commission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Panetta

P.S. He resigned in protest as Director of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare Civil Rights Division under Nixon in 1971 and became a Democrat.

After leaving the FCC, Hundt has worked as an advisor to McKinsey & Company and to the Blackstone Group. He has also joined the board of several technology companies, including Intel Corp., where he took the seat of legendary icon Gordon Moore upon Moore's retirement. In addition, Hundt is on the advisory board of Yale School of Management. He has written "You Say You Want A Revolution: A Story of Information Age Politics" (Yale:2000) and "In China's Shadow: The Crisis of American Entrepreneurship" (Yale: 2006) as part of the Future of American Democracy Foundation's Future of American Democracy Series.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Hundt

Sounds like Mr. Hundt is more interested in teaching and making money than reentering government.

Sounds like sour grapes.

[Tellurian]

37. Look, Panetta was in on the basement floor with Nixon..

That was the beginning of the end of the American Dream. Where do you think privatizing Health care came from?

Who in their right mind would hire the keystone players who helped develop PNAC!!! Open your eye, fer criss sake!

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[niceypoo]

43. Funny, Kerry and Edwards also voted YES......but they arent PNAC?

Selective outrage?

[ellisonz]

44. Not so much...

I never particularly liked Kerry, even when he was the nominee, as a Dean supporter I had a sour taste in my mouth. Kerry probably lost because he didn't come out strongly against his vote on the war and so he became a "flip-flopper," and that along with the fraud in Ohio probably cost him the election. John Edwards has apologized and I accept his apology. However, I do not consider his call for defunding the war to be sincere though as they seem to reflect political calculation as much as outrage. I did not work or donate to Kerry in 2004 because he would not admit what a tremendous strategic mistake invading Iraq was, and I will hold Hillary, Dodd, Edwards and Biden to that standard. Iraq in regards to elections is not about politics, Iraq was is about the exhibition of good judgment.

I accept Kerry's late apology:

Blog post aimed at firming up his antiwar image
By Rick Klein, Globe Staff | October 12, 2006
WASHINGTON -- Four years to the day after voting to authorize war in Iraq, Senator John F. Kerry yesterday asserted that the vote is his greatest regret of his political career, and said all lawmakers who voted for the war should admit that it was a mistake.

`There's nothing -- nothing -- in my life in public service I regret more, nothing even close," Kerry, a Massachusetts Democrat, wrote in a dispatch on the liberal blog HuffingtonPost.com. ``We should all be willing to say: I was wrong, I should not have voted for the Iraq War Resolution."

Twenty-nine Senate Democrats joined all but one of the Senate's Republicans in approving the war resolution Oct. 11, 2002. Other prominent Democrats -- including Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, one of Kerry's possible 2008 presidential rivals -- have not repudiated their votes.

Throughout his 2004 presidential campaign, Kerry said he would not have changed his vote to authorize force to topple Saddam Hussein. His struggles to articulate his position on the war epitomized his difficulty in communicating his campaign message.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/10/12/kerry_voices_deep_regret_for_voting_for_iraq_war/

Hillary has no regrets and her vote on Kyl-Lieberman shows that she still does not grasp what went wrong in 2002:

How could they have been so poorly prepared for the aftermath of the toppling of Saddam Hussein?" the New York Democrat asked Tuesday night on CNN's "Larry King Live."

"I don't understand how they had such an unrealistic view of what was going to happen."

----

"Obviously, I've thought about that a lot in the months since," she said. "No, I don't regret giving the president authority because at the time it was in the context of weapons of mass destruction, grave threats to the United States, and clearly, Saddam Hussein had been a real problem for the international community for more than a decade."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/21/iraq.hillary/

Sorry, you're stock answer doesn't work on me, and I didn't say are PNAC, I said served the interest of PNAC.

You do not assent to a fool of a President's request for the use of force under any condition. See: Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. What the fuck happened to the U.S. Constitution? Seriously.

:thumbsdown:

[Tellurian]

46. The usual BS...Too much for you to stay on topic!

[BenDavid]

34. Tellurian, I agree with your statement and boo hoo obama. He

obama reminds me of the little boy on the playground that starts all the fuss and backs off and hides and lets others do all the fussing. Obama has an elmer gantry quality about him and the more people see him they are seeing the false facade of this man.

For months on end after the 04 elections people were saying we need a fighter in our next candidate. Well, you have one in HRC but oh no,most of you have moved the goal line and we cannot have someone that fights back. Obama will not win the general by him standing there with that little grin or smirk (i e bush) on his face and doing that lil be bop step. Hell, this is not high school.

Whomever the republican candidate is will tear him a new one. Obama is not used to hand to hand combat. He is not tested and we will lose in 08 if he is the candidate....

You all asked for a bear for 08 and in HRC you are getting a damn grizzley.

[Tellurian]

36. Yes,.. Theres a certain cache having Mr & Mrs Grizzely represent us!

and I will not settle for less!

[JackORoses]

54. ahhh, were you stripped of your Hillis44 badge?

[JackORoses]

53. you should know all about false facades being a Hillary supporter

I hope you are recognized far and wide for your 'Elmer Gantry' talking point. You are so smart.
Everyone needs to know who came up with such a gem.
Have you considered a patent?

[OHdem10]

2. Bill Clinton has admitted that had the country been at war

he most likely could not have been elected. The Country was at
Peace, the Cold War was over.

He said this a couple of years ago on C-Span. His fresh face and
experience---he had governed a state, BTW wou;d mot have gotten
him into the WH.

He was probably correct.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Bill Clinton bombed and starved Iraq for 8 years

After the fall of Baghdad, but before the insurgency began, Pentagon generals bragged that the 'No-Fly Zones" were a sham, and that the US had deliberately provoked Iraq in order to conduct an 8-year bombing campaign to "soften up" Iraq.

[durrrty libby]

3. Don't hold back Big Dog ..go for it. We have but one life.

I am with you all the way:woohoo: :applause: :woohoo:

[ClarkUSA]

6. I agree! Keep saying you were opposed to the Iraq war from the beginning, Bill!!

:rofl:

[jenmito]

10. I agree, too! The more he talks, the worse it gets for his wife!

Keep it up, Big Dawg! :rofl:

[earthlover]

17. I agree! Go for the gusto Bill! See how low you can lower your wife's ratings!

You know, Bill could have done so much better if he stood by his wife and told us how good she is instead of being the attack dog.

People are sick of this negative campaigning and swift boating. It's the old style politics. People want something different. They want a new way of politics.

[ClarkUSA]

38. Yes, yes, and yes!

Bill has gone politically tone-deaf. Let's hope he stays that way, at least until Hillary gives her concession speech. ;-)

[cmkramer]

7. What's he said about Obama that's so terrible?

So far, it's been pretty much all about him not having enough experience which reasonable people can and will disagree about.

This idea that Obama can't be criticized because he's a black man is ridiculous IMHO.

[jenmito]

11. He lied about why he chose not to run in '88. It wasn't because he felt he didn't have

enough experience. It was because of the women problems he was having. Remember Gennifer Flowers? :rofl:

[cmkramer]

14. You mean the Gennifer Flowers

who lied about having a twelve year relationship with Clinton? That Gennifer Flowers?

And what does that have to do with Obama's experience or lack thereof?

[jenmito]

21. She DID have a relationship with him. He admitted to PART of it...

and knowing how strongly he denied the Lewinsky affair until the "evidence" was shown, I don't believe Bill for a second.

It has to do with Bill lying about why he chose not to run in '88. If he didn't have woman problems, he would've run. It wasn't because of lack of experience like he told Charlie Rose (to compare himself to Obama).

[cmkramer]

52. According to Gene Lyons

Clinton's contention that they only had a couple of encounters rings more true than her contention that they had a long affair. For instance, she was the kind of person who likes to brag about her sexual conquests. Somehow in the course of this supposed twelve year affair, she only managed to mention Clinton twice.

Funny how leftwingers buy into rightwing propaganda when it suits their purposes.

[earthlover]

18. So you raise the race card.....how sweet of you!

Why did you do this? You aren't trying to inject race into the arguement are you? Well, I guess you are!

[ellisonz]

29. "This idea that Obama can't be criticized because he's a black man is ridiculous IMHO."

Nobody has said that. What has been said is that the Clinton's are engaging in the "politics of personal destruction" that they claimed to deplore.

:eyes:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. Obama= 11 years in public office. Hillary= 7.

It's a canard.

Besides, a significant number of folks here are better versed in government actions than a significant number of Congress. With zero years of experience.

Smart is smart. Dumb is dumb (see: Chimp).

They're both smart so it's a ridiculous talking point, imo.

[Tellurian]

16. Notice how difficult it is for them to stay on topic.?

[madfloridian]

5. Here's the deal....if Obama and Edwards personal lives are attacked...

then Bill's personal life if fair game. He probably never thought of that. Most Democrats try to avoid that topic, but those of us who lived in areas where fundamentalism is strong were really on guard. It got heated here.

I think personal lives should be spared a little bit.

[ellisonz]

31. I'm game!

If the Big Dog wants to get dirty I have no problem advancing the notion that the American people won't put a serial adulterer back in the White House with his Machiavellian wife.

She'll be "swiftboated" like never before in the history of American politics!

[sjdnb]

9. A lose lose position ...

Bill Clinton will never played 'second fiddle' well (and, should NEVER be asked to) and anyone who expects him to, deserves whatever happens.

[Skip Intro]

12. Poor Obama. I hope his feathers aren't too ruffled.

I hope he's not feeling faint.

Why the hell would Hillary's spouse be extra so super kind and nice to a whiny hypocrite who called his wife "bush-cheney lite?"


Makes you wonder if he and his surrogates would whine about the repukes being unfair in the GE. Or about the Iranians or Israelis afterwards. Somehow, I don't think stomping your feet and pointing fingers will exactly cut it with an agressive and threateining move by a current or future adversary.

[Tellurian]

19. Obama is a spineless one hit wonder..

He's unsure of himself in interviews and a stumbler in debates and inspires NO confidence in handling the complexities of our government at this point in time. Panneta is speaking as if we are living in the past. When he mouthed Poppy's speeches of a "Kinder and Gentler Nation" while they we're sticking the knives into our economy... what an ass!

[calteacherguy]

33. Obama is the most inspiring candidate in the race

He's confident in interviews and made Hillary look like a fool in the last debate. He intelligence, judgment, and character have inspired great hope and confidence for America's future. Panneta is a great American, and the Clintons would be wise to put their overblown egos aside for once and heed his counsel.

[Tellurian]

35. Hey, Cal.. it doesn't take much to inspire you..me,I want MORE! And I won't settle for Second best!

:rofl:

[calteacherguy]

39. .

:-)

[earthlover]

22. Well, if yu look at the Hillary attack sites, they are 100% whine!

So...let's get this straight. You can whine, and Hillary's campaign can whine all day long. But Obama has not whined. In fact, in the face of negative campaigning from Hillary since last JULY, Obama has shown great restraint.

Way back in July, when hillary called obama "irresponsible and frankly naive" we all should have seen what was ahead for us to watch from the Hillary camp. So it is not at all surprising that, now that their inevitability is squashed and the race is deadlocked, the hillary campaign reverts back to form, bashing obama.

Hillary is a very experienced wife. And boy has she had some experiences in that regard. But when it comes to elected experience, Obama has just as much or more.

It is one thing to say that Hillary has lots of experiences and she will make a fine president due to her experience. It is another thing entirely to say that Obama is not experienced enough to be president. I honestly think that some Hillary worshippers are so blind that they really don't see the difference. And they don't see any dissonance with whining about "hillary haters" everywhere they look.

If you want to see whining: look at those who whine about "hillary haters". Whine, whine, whine.

[annie1]

26. and suggested her life plan was to marry bill to become president. screw him.

[jefferson_dem]

15. Big Dog has pissed away any credibility he had left...in promoting Hillary's electoral pursuits.

He's done.

[Tellurian]

20. Why are you talking jibberish..The man who brokered Peace in Ireland

has pissed away his credibility? Laughable post!

[ellisonz]

45. Wait, I thought that was George J. Mitchell...

Remarks on presenting the Presidential Medal of Freedom to George J. Mitchell - Bill Clinton speech - Transcript

I asked him to take a small, part-time commitment as my special economic adviser to Northern Ireland. Then the British and Irish Governments stepped in and asked him to chair talks on disarmament and then on bringing a comprehensive peace after a generation of bloodshed. The small, part-time commitment became more all-consuming than being Senate majority leader. I got even with him for leaving me.

He drew up principles of nonviolence, aimed at preventing further tragedies while the talks proceeded. In building common ground among longtime antagonists he was a patient listener when he needed to be and a decisive leader when he had to be. He earned the respect of all parties for fairness, integrity, and judgment. And he built the trust necessary to move toward an agreement.

Through more than 100 trips across the Atlantic, shall I say that again? - through more than 100 trips across the Atlantic, he continued to press ahead in the cause of peace. Northern Ireland learned what its sister and brothers knew from endless nights of cribbage, what his college basketball teammates saw from their tenacious starting guard, what his fellow legislators learned on the Senate floor and on the tennis court, and what I learned as his friend and colleague: Don't be fooled by the calm demeanor; this guy is a ferocious competitor, determined to succeed.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2889/is_11_35/ai_54517235

Main Entry:
bro·ker
Pronunciation:
\?br?-k?r\
1: one who acts as an intermediary: as a: an agent who arranges marriages b: an agent who negotiates contracts of purchase and sale (as of real estate, commodities, or securities)

Yeah, Big Dog was in office, but Mitchell carried the water. Give credit where credit is due.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[durrrty libby]

25. Yeah riiiight. Tell the world that

http://www.mycommitment.org/

[calteacherguy]

23. I hope Bill doesn't sully himself anymore the mudslinging. I really do.

Sure, I support Obama and it would be helpful if Bill kept sullying his legacy, but still I'd hate to see that happen.

He has a great place in history, but it's time for the Clintons to hand the baton to a new generation.

[durrrty libby]

24. " sully himself"? How puritanical.

:rofl:



Here ..expand your mind and see what he has become to the world

http://www.mycommitment.org/

[Tellurian]

27. But Obama and his daisycutters can sully themselves 24/7

just because...

:rofl:

[durrrty libby]

30. Hey Happy Holidays Tell to you and yours

:toast: :party: :hi:

[Tellurian]

40. Ah, same to you and yours libby!!

Santa is going be good to you!

[Beacool]

41. Sully himself? The upstart deserved the smack down!

Today I read GQ's article on Clinton. Before some of you dare to insult him, go read it and see what this man has done to save the lives of thousands of people living with AIDs. Obama? Please, what the hell has he done so far that is so special? Other than writing two books about himself and giving a good speech at a convention.

[Inuca]

49. "Upstart"?!?!

That one word encapsulates much of the Clinton's and Clinton supporters' attitude. How dare you eye MY White House? Lovely.

[saracat]

51. "Upstart"? I an not even am Obama supporter(I like him but he isn't ny candidate) and I find this

insulting.Keep this up.It is going to tank your candidate.And good riddance!

[Beacool]

55. Well, what would you call a guy whose ego is so large that he thinks

that he's fit to be president with only a couple of years in the senate? If he had waited to actually prepare for the job, I would have been glad to vote for him. As it is, I don't think that he's qualified to be president. It's my opinion and I won't waver from it.