Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

A thorough refutation of the idea New Hampshire is racist:

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:12 PM
Original message
A thorough refutation of the idea New Hampshire is racist:
Look, there is a lot of talk about the supposed racism of the Democratic result in New Hampshire and the supposed "Bradley Effect" at work there. This is utter garbage and I will dispel it with a few simple facts.

1. Obama won the white male vote. That's a simple fact and he won it big. Historically this is where you look for racism in elections. He performed right in line with expectations among those voters.

2. Obama won the rural vote. Look at the counties and towns he won. Those are sparsely populated rural places, once again usually centers of the racist vote.

3. Polling is not infallible. No one expect Carol Shea-Porter to win in the eastern district of New Hampshire in 2006 based on polling and she did it reasonably comfortably. Likely voter models can be wrong, particularly in high turnout elections. Georgia 2002 was another case. Nobody expected Sonny Purdue to beat Roy Barnes as he trailed by 8-10 points and he won by 5.

4. Obama performed within the range of his percentages in polling. He was expected to get 38%, he got 37%. Hillary just performed better.

5. Massachusetts voted for Governor Patrick by...23% in 2006. This either outperformed his polling or was inline. Is neighboring New Hampshire really that different?

Now I want to even take on the "Bradley Effect" notion in the first place. The notion is that African American politicians do worse than expected due to a hidden racist vote due to the race between the African American mayor of Los Angeles Tom Bradley versus Mike Deukmejian in 1982 for governor of California in which Bradley underperformed his polling. However, when it is actually looked at more closely, Bradley was leading by 7 points according to the final Field Poll, not a huge lead. He lost by a margin of less than 1%. However, if you examine it even closer you find that his margin was 49-42%, not exactly overwhelming and he lost 50-49%. This sort of thing happens all of the time. In Montana Jon Tester was projected to win by more than four points in 2006 and barely won at all. There was a very reliable Mason-Dixon poll in Rhode Island in 2006 that showed Lincoln Chaffee leading by a point and he lost by seven. Those last two were both white candidate versus white candidate in very white states.

Let's even examine the Douglas Wilder race back in 1989 where he underperformed by some ten points going into the election and barely won in Virginia. He was an African American running against a white candidate. However, Virginia polling used to be awful for some reason. Perhaps it overpolled Democrats for quite a while not taking into account the shift of the state to the Republicans. In 1997, Jim Gilmore led in the final Washington Post poll by 7 percent and won by 13% running against a white Democratic opponent. In 2001, Democrat Mark Warner led by double digits and won by little more than 5%. Granted, in the 2005 and 2006 races polling seemed pretty close, but there was volatility.

The point of all of this is, to look at a series of polls taken over only about three days before New Hampshire voting and pointing at New Hampshire voters and yelling "RACISTS!!!!" is not only incorrect, but it is also destructive. It sours the mood and potentially hurts the Democratic Party.

http://bqreport.blogspot.com/2008/01/vote-in-new-hampshire-did-not-reflect.html

This is on my blog as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. FWIW...I don't think it was
"racist"..Obama transcends all that crap except from the lowlifes of course.

The polls were just wrong. Don't trust the fucking polls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I know most people don't think there was racism, but enough do they
have to be crushed. They are potentially very dangerous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Exit polling is really important
It's what is used to measure the validity of elections. We can't scrap it, we do have to figure out why it's been so wrong in recent years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Early exit polling always has had problems because it tends to be too
concentrated in urban and suburban areas. It has to be reweighted. I can't find the article anymore, but there was an article by Ruy Texeira(sp?) that had data from elections back to 1980 showing how they routinely overestimate Democratic strength before being reweighted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I also understood more women show early
Maybe that's what they did wrong. Maybe they figured the number of men that would show after work based on the huge number of women, not realizing those men weren't going to show or were going to go in large measure for McCain. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Whatever the case was, NH exit polling was pretty close.
It wasn't like some of it in 2000 and 2004 that was way way way off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. I just posted a similar post. We seem to be in agreement about this.
It's the pundits and pollsters looking to blame the voters instead of themselves. They SHOULD be embarrassed. But I have no doubt that the A LOT OF (but not all) POLLS WERE VERY WRONG...and the pundits chose to believe the ones that fit into their preconceived thoughts.

Exit polls were closer, showing more of a 50-50 voting pattern. And not ALL the journalists and pre-election polls forecast a big win by Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I remember those early exit polls. I tried to call the race and I really couldn't.
They leaned ever so slightly to Obama, but not by much. As more exit polling came in we saw that women were breaking big for Hillary and it appeared to be very close. I was there the whole time. I saw it all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Exactly. The pundits and pollsters blew it
It's that simple. And it wasn't the first time, either.

Ask Thomas Dewey.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. They sure did. I've seen bunches of cases of it.
I highlighted a bunch of them in my post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. Massachusetts and New Hampshire...
are very different in my view...but I don't see how anyone could claim as the result of last nights vote, that New Hampshire is a racist state. It would appear just the opposite to me. But..that doesn't mean pundits and assholes that are trying to spin the polls won't use that as an explanation. So...New Hampshire does not appear to be racist...but these days..DU..definitely is!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Massachusetts is different in a number of ways, but the racial mentallity?
I really doubt that. Illinois and Wisconsin are very different in a lot of ways, but I sense a similar attitude towards race.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. maybe you could go back..
and read my post...jeez...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Whoops. Responded too soon.
I sometimes do that. My mistake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. No problem...
I do the same thing...especially when it gets a little harsh around here.:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks for a logical and well reasoned post
It is appreciated by this NH resident.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I've been in New Hampshire and I love the state.
I see no evidence of a secret KKK chapter that includes 12% of the Democratic electorate. That's hyperbole, I know, but you all get the point. Those are good people, just as if not more civilized than anyone else in this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Well, we do have our issues - but stragely the real jerks live in the highly populated areas
We have our share of republican knuckle-draggers here - the state was Republican for 100 years! But, the Dems are as good a bunch of folks as you'll meet anywhere!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. You should come to central and northern Wisconsin sometime.
Wowzas. It would knock your socks off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. I still don't buy racism....
I think Obama's "Iowa Bump" was coming down.

It generally only lasts 5 days anyway historically.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I think the fact we had so few days to poll is a big part of it.
There may have been big shifts Sunday and Monday not fully captured.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
21. 13,000 NH votes went to a chubby Hispanic.
I doubt even the few squealing "racism!!" believe what they're saying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. They probably don't, but they can sour the mood.
It is potentially very harmful to all of us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. I don't think it was race and I don't think it helps him when people push that
as a reason.

This has to feel kind of crappy for the New Hampshire people.

I'm glad I caucused in Iowa instead of voting in New Hampshire. We got to feel great afterwards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. If I lived in New Hampshire I would be offended like no other.
This sort of talk is such nonsense.

The truth is Obama actually did quite well and 84% of voters had a favorable opinion of him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. Somehow I've managed to miss this controversy
That Obama lost in NH because of his race never entered my mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. It has not escaped many people on this board or Chris Matthews.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. If Obama takes the Black male vote here.....
he takes .05%...is that what happened?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. The point is winning the White Male vote outright by 12% is an indication
that the racist argument is garbage. That is generally speaking the most racist group. There is racism elsewhere, but it is strongest in that demographic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Well then, after reading a post on racism as it may occur...
after you both introduce the subject and minimize it, I voted for the white guy and no matter what I say I'm sure you think I'm wrong.Perhaps I'm the moron but I think Corporations are a problem.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bishop Rook Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
31. Good points, mostly
I don't think it was an issue of racism. But this point struck me, because I've seen it a lot...

"5. Massachusetts voted for Governor Patrick by...23% in 2006. This either outperformed his polling or was inline. Is neighboring New Hampshire really that different?"

Yes. Yes, neighboring New Hampshire is very different from Massachusetts. NH's politics are one of a kind compared to the rest of New England, and expecting them to act like Massachusetts will only make them less likely to do so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
32. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC