McCain Holds Slight Lead In SC. If McCain is the Nominee, No Way Obama Can Beat Him

[fightindonkey]

That's all I'm saying. Experience vs. none.

[TwilightGardener]

Not worried about it.

[Bonobo]

1. Your rep precedes you.

[Bitwit1234]

18. Gee thought we weren't suppose to attack a poster personally....

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

26. In this case...

Endorsing McCain? :shrug: MKJ

[totodeinhere]

69. Either Hillary, Obama, or Edwards will kick McCain's ass

[Clarkansas]

2. It will be like Nixon against Kennedy.

And at least Bloomberg and Nader probably won't be running.

[Justitia]

31. LOL - I had exactly the same thought. Watching that debate is a great poli-sci lesson. -eom

[Carrieyazel]

44. And didn't Nixon come within 100,000 votes; any many thought that election was stolen, like 2000.

[Clarkansas]

48. Obama vs. McCain will be like Clinton vs. Bush as well

Young vs. old.
Hillary vs. McCain (and Bloomberg and Nader) will be like Reagan vs. Dukakis.

[yardwork]

58. I think it would be more like Dole vs. Clinton.

McCain reminds me of Dole in '96. "It's my turn so shut up and vote for me, dammit!"

Let's see - Obama's politics of hope vs. a cranky old man photographed hugging Bush.

Edited to correct - it must have been '96 - I'm so old my memory's failing.

[Fresh_Start]

3. how do you know that Obama can't beat McCain

nothing is decided yet especially not the voters.

[SteppingRazor]

4. Couldn't disagree more.

In fact, Obama is the one candidate that has, thus far, a proven ability to steal away independents who might otherwise have voted Republican -- the very voters McCain depends on.

[terip64]

5. Did you see McCain's speech the other night? I am not worried about McCain. n/t

[DrFunkenstein]

6. How Old Would McCain Be at End of His Potential Term?

And don't forget that the voters are turning to domestic issues like health care and energy prices.

[Big Blue Marble]

7. No, its old vs young.

I believe that the voters are asking for change. Do not be so naive as think
that Hillary would beat McCain. Hillary vs McCain equals President McCain.

[Benhurst]

22. Old vs. young. What a great strategy. Not.

I thought Obama had slipped a while back when he said young versus old, meaning to say new versus old.

If it wasn't a slip, he'll go down in flames.

Splitting the electorate along generational lines, especially for a Baby Boomer such as Obama pretending to represent youth, is not only bad politics, but bad for the country.

What happened to all the bring-us-together bullshit? That may be nothing but fluff (obviously so if he counting on a generational rift to propel him into the White House); but at least it's good politics.

[Big Blue Marble]

35. Wait a minute.

Neither Obama or I are talking about splitting generations. If you would listen to his
message it is one of inclusiveness and unity.

When I say young. I am saying he projects the image of youth and energy. He speaks to the future.
Obviously, the young will be spending more time there. They have the most invested in the future.
Yet many people of all ages are drawn to the message of youth and vitality.

McCain is old. Looks old. And sounds old. It is a major contrast.

[Benhurst]

36. Unfortunately, unless he changes course, Obama is too much image

and not enough substance.

"he projects the image of youth and energy"

Congratulations, you've just written the epitaph for my generation.

Far too much form, and too little substance.

[Big Blue Marble]

37. If you understand successful politics in 21th Century America, it is all image. n/t

[Benhurst]

40. And that is exactly why we have found ourselves with the Constitution

and Bill of Rights shredded, the economy in ruins, and strutting the world stage as The World's Only Superpower.

Enough of the bullshit. And enough of "leaders" projecting manufactured images of themselves and providing no leadership.

We need someone to wake up the American people, tell them the bad news, and inspire them to action. We don't need any more bullshit, carefully crafted and often false projected images, or highly rhetorical feel-good speeches.

[Big Blue Marble]

42. I agree.

As long as the psychological research used in marketing techniques,
"informs" our political process. It is powerful stuff. It got Bush 'elected."
And be assured the Clintons are the masters of imagery.

[Benhurst]

46. Back in the heady days of 2004, I had hoped Obama would break

the pattern.

He hasn't so far. And the way the campaign has developed, I fear, to the contrary, he is just doing his own version of the same-old same-old.

I've always been a bit concerned about his getting such a free ride from the corporate press -- even the National Review found nothing to criticize in his acclaimed speech to the Democratic National Convention, which should have told us something.

I still hold out hope; but he has done little lately to justify it.

[Big Blue Marble]

55. I am not sure how anybody does break the pattern.

First in order to be competitive, you have to communicate with imagery.
Secondly voters are trained to respond emotionally. Remember the wolves in the forest?
Few bring critical thinking skills to their decision making process. Hell, if you
believe the psychologists, none of us do. So that is how the candidates communicate, right to the gut.

Whether we admit it or not, we all feel that emotional connection to our candidate of choice.
(how else would you explain all the rationalizing on all sides that goes on here?)
So we are vulnerable to being manipulated. They all know that and they all do it.

[Benhurst]

59. I've come around to the point where I am wishing for a brokered convention.

I think Al Gore may be the only American with sufficient stature to do what needs to be done and take the American people, kicking and screaming, along with him.

And he may be the only Democrat who can bring the party together.

I don't see either Hillary or Barak being able to bridge the gap between their two factions. And the extent to which John Edwards' followers agree with him about the need to confront our corporate masters, I don't see a good match for them with either camp.

The last thing the powers that be want is a brokered convention. Things tend to get a bit out of control at such functions. But maybe that is why we need one.

[Big Blue Marble]

61. Well that would certainly make for an interesting political year.

Of course the powers that be, do not like that kind of sausage grinding. Just accept who we give you and
vote. It would certainly be interesting. I am old enough to remember the brokered conventions of the past.
And as a political junkie, there is nothing like them.

As for Al. That would be great. But then again wouldn't we all have to act like grownups to elect him.
Wouldn't the media just start up with the SOS. I think we are all in a pickle, so many factions pulling in
so many directions on both sides of the aisle. I would hope that when it all shakes out, that the American
People are the winners. But I am not optimistic at this point.

[rucky]

8. If experience were valued by voters this time around...

Biden, Dodd and Richardson would still be in the race. Let's see who gets more voter turnout for the SC primary.

[Carrieyazel]

49. It does hold some value, because Clinton, McCain and Huckabee are all still IN the race.

[Renew Deal]

9. If that's the argument, then no Democrat is qualified

Though Obama has more elected experience than Hillary.

[Catshrink]

10. If McCain is the nominee

expect our nominee, whoever it will be, to play his comment about being in Iraq for 100 years over and over again. And his little ditty "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran."

I don't think the country is in the mood for another warmonger.

But, let's not get too confident either.

[Atman]

11. McCain is a certifiable loon, and a generally cranky old -- wicked old -- man.

There is such night and day between the two. I don't care if Jesus runs as a Republican, Americans aren't going to vote GOP in 2008. It's not going to happen.

.

[JackORoses]

12. Wrong! Obama is the only one who can beat him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4016674

If Hill is the nominee, McCain will swamp her with Independents.
And he will destroy her in the Experience department.

Barack is the only Hope against him.
Barack can outdraw him in Independents.
And he cannot beat Barack when it comes to Change.

And of Change and Experience, we know which the American People prefer now.

[aquart]

24. Well, he needs 30 million independents. We only need 13.

The Democrat is going to win.

[Carrieyazel]

47. Where's the evidence that Obama can outdraw McCain with Indeps. I don't see it.

Most Indeps are dead center. Not liberal, not conservative, but DEAD CENTER. McCain appeals to them, and will argue that he's closer to the center than Obama.

[JackORoses]

51. Iowa and NH, just for starters

[The Traveler]

13. Nonsense

Any of our top three can and will clobber McCain.

[Perky]

14. You are officially now an idiot

If McCain is their nominee.. The elcetion become a referenedum on the war and the ability of the mMalii government to deliver the things necessary to allow us to leave. I will take that fight any day.

[Occam Bandage]

17. Only now?

[MGKrebs]

15. I think McCain is only good in small doses.

The more people see of him, the less appealing he is.
He wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years!
Besides, he's on public financing.
I'm really only worried about Romney or Giuliani.

[Occam Bandage]

16. Nah. Obama would beat his senile ass.

[Carrieyazel]

45. I disagree. Independents would go with McCain in huge numbers

if he starts running away from Shrub (which he'll start doing once he gets the nom) AND reminds independents that Obama's views are right in line with Hillary's.

[HughMoran]

66. That rambling old codger wont get any independents

He's lost his mind.

[aquart]

19. That's ridiculous.

McCain looks like he's one day away from a stroke. Half the time he talks like Alzheimer's is already there.

But whatever happens, THE DEMOCRAT IS GOING TO WIN.

[Thrill]

20. This idiots starts more negative threads

than anyone. Its getting old

[Nimrod2005]

21. You are way way wrong, Obama would beat him for the same reason he beats HRC.

[Capn Sunshine]

23. Aren't you a positive force for the future

No wonder kids have been avoiding the party. They have to get by cranky folks like you waving a rake and screaming "get offa my lawn!"

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

25. HAHAHAHA!

:rofl: MKJ

[Bodhi BloodWave]

28. I don't think the kids are even on the grass

More akin to passing by his house and he does not want em on *his* pavement(its in front of his house so it belongs to him)

[zulchzulu]

27. "Experience vs. none"...

McCain has experience...many of it the wrong kind. Obama's 12 years as a legislator and being a fresh change over the hobbling old man will certainly be used.

Have you seen McCain in speeches recently? It's the best way to catch up on your sleep.

His visit in Baghdad where he had 100 soldiers around him and 10 choppers protecting him as he said it was all OK will be a nice issue to use on his spin about the Iraq War. That's the kind of experience McCain has.

I look forward to a matchup with Obama vs. McCain if that's the choice.

[daa]

29. delete

political crowds"

Bush 500
Big Dog 2500
Obama last year 10,000

McCain is 71. My mother is about 71 and I don't want her running the country for the next 4 years. Reagan slept through meetings and we don't need that again. Bush is hard headed and lsitens to no one and that is the same reason McCain has not one friend in the Senate. He is an ego maniac butthole.

[daa]

30. In racist Georgia

political crowds"

Bush 500
Big Dog 2500
Obama last year 10,000

McCain is 71. My mother is about 71 and I don't want her running the country for the next 4 years. Reagan slept through meetings and we don't need that again. Bush is hard headed and listens to no one and that is the same reason McCain has not one friend in the Senate. He is an ego maniac butthole.

[dionysus]

32. oh sage, oh wise one, the clown has spoken!

[NoBorders]

33. Based on what info? These polls say different:

Hillary does the worst among the top three against McCain, btw.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

[BringBigDogBack]

34. Wrong.

Imagine if you could, for a second, the two of them sharing a stage for a debate... Imagine that debate happening. Who is going to connect to all those people out there? McCain? I think not./

[Essene]

38. I assure you Obama would do better than Hillary. American dislikes her...

Folks need to wake up and realize she is DISLIKED at nearly 50% rate.

That's not going to vanish in a few months.

[pdxmom]

39. If it is Obama against McCain, then a majority of the electorate has

already made a decision regarding Obama's experience.

Additionally, you seem to discount the populace's mood for change and getting out of Iraq.

[Nailzberg]

41. Astute and very nicely stated. You qualify your assessment well.

:rofl:

[Carrieyazel]

43. Agreed. But no way Hillary can beat him either.

Independents seem to have forgiven him. And for some inexplicable reason he still represents some kind of change. Not like 2000 of course, but enough to win a general election.

[Milo_Bloom]

50. McCain voted for the war... it is an easy fight.

It would be a much harder fight against a Huckabee or someone else who didn't have to vote for the war, because they can talk about all the things they would have done differently, but McCain is on record supporting the lunacy.

[Carolina]

53. HRC voted for the war TOO

and red states will go for insane McCain over HRC any day, every day.

[Milo_Bloom]

56. Of course...

But with a McCain v Clinton tickets it would become

McCain v Clinton v Bloomberg and Bloomberg would likely suck up much of the independent vote, as well as annoyed Democrats and Republicans.


At the end of the day, a candidate who didn't vote for the war (for whatever reason... just not being in the senate is fine) will have an advantage over a candidate who DID vote for the war.


So if you have two war voters, a non-war voting 3rd party has a really good shot.

[Carolina]

52. and neither can HRC!

[jefferson_dem]

54. Have you ever launched a non-negative thread here at DU?

Seriously, dude. Why are you always such a downer?

[Benhurst]

60. If you're looking for feel-good messages,

Democratic Underground is probably not the place to look.

:rofl:

[jefferson_dem]

62. So True.

What was I thinking?... <slaps forehead>

[yardwork]

57. Thank you for your concern. I guess I'll just quit now. Throw in the towel.

[loveangelc]

63. ...and who exactly can? Hillary? LOL

[springhill]

64. I think John McCain scares me more than just about anyone.........

He just loves war.

[goodgd_yall]

65. I think it would be a tight race, but

I don't think we can predict a defeat at this point. Obama has qualities that can transcend the issue of experience. He is not a warmonger and he has the capacity to inspire.

[Elidor]

67. Apparently there's not much 'fight' in fightindonkey

Perhaps 'laydownandgiveupdonkey' would be a more apt moniker.

[Arugula Latte]

68. Obama can beat him. Hillary is the one who will sink our ticket. nt