Did Reagan change the course of America in a very different direction?

[Mass]

Poll question: Did Reagan change the course of America in a very different direction?

Not asking if the course was right or wrong, but I'd like to know if he did, because it seems some people seem offended by the idea that somebody says that.

[thunder rising]

1. And we are now at the pinnacle of Reagan economics

The corporations are raking in money. People are losing their houses. The citizenry is being turned serfdom. The government sponsors corporation interests to spy on the citizenry. This a ALL what Ray-gun-omics is all about.

[sam sarrha]

10. it would be more accurate if you changed 'Pinnacle' to "PRECIPICE"

[chimpymustgo]

30. We're at the NADIR of Ray-gun-nomics. Staring up from the abyss. Don't mention his G-D name!!

Obama did not make a "benign" statement. It betrayed deeper themes, denouncing what Democrats stand for. To raise Reagan as an icon - WITH NO REFERENCE TO THE DESTRUCTION HE CAUSED THIS COUNTRY - is very troubling, indeed.

[niceypoo]

28. Reaganomics were all about floating the economy on borrowed money

I wouldn't call that a 'pinnacle'

[Kahuna]

2. He most certainly did. Not for the better but there is no doubt that he did

move the country to the right.

[anniebelle]

3. Yes, he started our downward spiral into decadence! n/t

[ixion]

12. and a totalitarian police state

beginning with the so-called (and bogus) 'War on Drugs' (while he was selling cocaine to fund the contras) and don't forget the prison privatization boom, both of which were gleefully carried on by Clinton.

[oldgrowth]

4. down the outhouse for a swim

[wyldwolf]

5. of course, but Obama praised that direction.

[Mass]

14. Here is what he said in the 2006 interview. Note that he said that he did not agree with him.

but that he changed the country in more than a couple particular issues. This is actually the main difference between the Clinton AND Obama/Edwards pov. Clinton wants to tweak the system. Obama and Edwards, with arguably wanting to proceed differently, want to change things more radically, getting people involved in the system, not just spectators.

But I think, when I think about great presidents, I think about those who transform how we think about ourselves as a country in fundamental ways...And, you know, there are circumstances in which, I would argue, Ronald Reagan was a very successful president, even though I did not agree with him on many issues, partly because at the end of his presidency, people, I think, said, “You know what? We can regain our greatness. Individual responsibility and personal responsibility are important.” And they transformed the culture and not simply promoted one or two particular issues.

[Zorra]

33. But here are the real problems with this statement:

I'll embolden what I see as problems and comment upon what I have emboldened:

But I think, when I think about great presidents, I think about those who transform how we think about ourselves as a country in fundamental ways...And, you know, there are circumstances in which, I would argue, Ronald Reagan was a very successful president, even though I did not agree with him on many issues, partly because at the end of his presidency, people, I think, said “You know what? We can regain our greatness. Individual responsibility and personal responsibility are important.” And they transformed the culture and not simply promoted one or two particular issues.

great presidents.... - Reagan was not a great president. He did severe damage to our country and our people. The fact that he was instrumental in effecting a major transformation from democracy to fascism does not make him a great president. What it makes him is a charismatic fraud that was able to deceive a large number of people into believing his lies and acting upon them against their own interests.

In Christian mythology, this is exactly what "Satan", the classic representation of evil incarnate in most western societies, does.

If Sen. Obama considers Reagan to be a "great president", I have to seriously question his criteria for determining this, as well as his moral and ethical value system.

Reagan as a successful president - Being successful as a president would be measured, by any reasonable person, by the good that the respective president does for her/his country and people. Reagan was destructive to the country and the people. If we measure success by the damage that Reagan did to our nation, or by his ability to deceive the masses, then yes, he was very successful.

at the end of his presidency, people, I think, said “You know what? We can regain our greatness. Individual responsibility and personal responsibility are important.” - Our country was a mess when Reagan left office. We had gone from being the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest nation, and were entering a recession. Most rational people, myself included, had experienced 8 years of political hopelessness and despair, as we watched our once vibrant, hope filled, progressive-evolving democracy turn into an authoritarian leaning, environmentally challenged regressive pseudo-fascist state in a matter of 8 years. Most people I know did not say, "We can regain our greatness"...they said:

"Thank God that demented old fascist fuck is gone, maybe now we can start the process of returning to sanity."

And yes, Reagan was a corporate puppet that was instrumental in transforming our culture - from a progressive, hope filled, optimistic, and change oriented altruistic leaning society into a regressive fascist leaning, greed admiring "I got mine and I 'll get yours too" that has resulted in the sad state of decline that we are in at the present.

[digitalage77]

6. I agree with last poster. Obama didn't simply say he changed it. he said he changed it GOOD

See 2006 interview with Meet the Press saying Reagan was great and very successful.

[sam sarrha]

13. All i can say is that i am glad i ordered, 'Edwards' bumper stickers, they don't accept returns.....

:rofl: :woohoo: :popcorn:

[Adelante]

7. No question

I was there. I lived it. We're still living it and that is what Obama wants to change.

[sam sarrha]

8. i hear the ReThugs are planning to change the name of Earth to 'Planet Reagan'

[dmosh42]

9. He started the 'corporate control' of our government...

There has been a balance between corporate influence and the social requirements of the population since the late 19th century. Reagan took sides against the working people, and opened the doors to corporation execs to run things. I don't know how many might remember that 'blip' of a story about how either the gov't of Japan, or Japanese industry, gave Reagan a gift of two million dollars as his reward in keeping the 'playing field' slanted in favor of Japan. A real patriot!

[Birthmark]

11. Yup.

And future historians will pinpoint the start of America's decline with that change.

[golddigger]

15. WTF!!!

Went to bed early last night,I wake up and fire up DU And all I see is Reagan threads. I thought at first I was in sleepless stupor and clicked on a conservative website. I screamed to my dear wife, please wake me up am having an 80's nightmare.:scared: :scared: :scared:

[sam sarrha]

16. Reagan was a Patsy for Bu$hitCo... just an out of work actor, ..who was mentally ill, before they

Lobotomized him to keep him from testifying at the Iran Contra Hearings.

[LiberalArkie]

17. and we are stll in the 7th term of the Reagan dynasty.

meaning of course, greed is good. And let's help the poor people at the top of the food chain first.

[Mass]

18. Two of them led by the Clintons...

[MethuenProgressive]

19. Push poll.

:puke:

[Azathoth]

22. Look up the definition of 'push poll' n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

23. See OP.

I :puke: on the OP Push Poll.

[Mass]

24. Well, my post is a reaction to the Clinton supporters' talking points.

I :puke: talking points of all sorts.

I suggest that you read that if you have not yet.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/you-sir-are-no-ronald-reagan-by-digby.html

[jefferson_dem]

20. Yes. Some may actually say "transformative"...

:scared:

[Mass]

21. can whoever said NO explain why?

I want to know who thinks that Reagan America was the same as LBJ's and Carter's and why?

[fasttense]

25. Reagan didn't do anything.

By the time he became president he started slipping into the dementia of Alzheimer. His lackeys and VP took over. Reagan just stood around misquoting speeches while the US ship of state was moved toward the "free market" crapolla sold by the neocons.

Reagan was simply the figurehead for corporatists.

[indimuse]

26. I'm getting dizzy!

Obama apologist need help!

[Seabiscuit]

27. Yes. He gutted it, then shat all over it, then pretended he couldn't remember doing anything.

[sandnsea]

29. Obviously

But they can't win if they don't lie.

[Avalux]

31. Yes, regardless with whether it was good or bad. n/t

[elixir]

32. Yes, he effectively flushed our country down the toilet w/out wiping.