Reagan screwed my life over - not keen on democrats who speak fondly of him

[LynneSin]

Don't get me wrong - I vote democrat 100%. Just not keen on supporting, campaigning and donating to democrats who feel they need to invoke a man who devastated so many in this country because of failed domestic policies

[DJ13]

1. You Clinton supporters need a new set of talking points.

This has been played out.

[LynneSin]

3. Who said I was a Clinton Supporter?

Up until about 2 weeks ago I was a Biden supporter. After he dropped out I became officially 'undecided'

You Obama supporters need to stop assuming shit!

[TwilightZone]

6. I think it's generally assumed that any criticism of anyone must be from Hillary supporters.

Why, I have no clue, since Hillary supporters are a small minority here.

[avaistheone1]

35. Reagan was a disaster from the October Surprise through Iran Contragate

Reagan was pretty much a disaster for this country from shortly before he was elected right up until he left office.

[Kucinich4America]

57. There ARE a lot of Hillbots in these Reagan threads though, and that's a fact.

I have no use for Reagan. I'm the one who posted "FUCK his rotten corpse in the ass with a chainsaw" in the thread that started this explosion last night. And I'm not talking about those who have reason to hate Reagan because of AIDS impacting their loved ones, or any economic impact. Those are valid reasons. But there are some here who are doing this ONLY to bash Obama.

Why do I bring this up?

Because Reagan was a puppet of the Bush Crime Family. And the Clintons are such good friends of theirs.

Those "Reagan" policies that you loathe? Odds are they were really written by Bill Clinton's good friend Poppy Bush.

Now let's put that in proper perspective. There's been no shift in the agenda at any time since January 20, 1981. The people who were in charge then are in charge now. They were in charge in the 1990's and they want yet another decade.

So if you say "Fuck off" to Obama for idolizing Reagan, then you have to say "Fuck off" to Hillary for continuing the criminal direction that bastard set this country on.

[ClericJohnPreston]

81. Great! I say the hell

with Hillary Shillery and Obama the wannabe Repub!

GO EDWARDS.....a REAL Progressive!

[Clark2008]

90. You mean 50 percent ACLU-rated Edwards?

Some progressive.

:eyes:

[ClericJohnPreston]

109. No,

I mean the Edwards who isn't Pro-Corporatism, like Obama is.

The one who doesn't invoke Reagan in a positive light, as Obama does.

The bone who isn't a centrist appeasor, like Obama is.

The candidate who appeals to rationality, not sloganeering and cultists, lie Obamites.

That John Edwards.

[PVnRT]

102. The Bush family hated Reagan

At least, that's what I seem to remember. The Bushes are old money, and they saw Reagan as a buffoon.

Just a nitpick, for no reason other than I'm bored at work and it's Friday.

[Stinky The Clown]

101. Welcome to my world

Open your mouth to offer anything less than total praise to any given candidate and suddenly you're a supporter of another one.

Don't feel bad, though. You'll also be accused of being a Hillary hater. That balances it all out, kinda.

I have been, at various times, accused of being:

Hillary Lover
Hillary Hater
Obama Lover
Obama Hater
Edwards Lover
Edwards Hater
Kucinich Lover
Kucinich Hater

etc.

No one, however, seems able to accept the fact that NOT ONE of these candidates lights my fire and that I am steadfastly uncommitted.

[FiveGoodMen]

41. I'm the furthest thing there is from a Clinton supporter and I agree with the OP!

[orleans]

42. what does not liking reagan have to do with clinton? explain it to me

i'm new here.

[TankLV]

74. why? because the TRUTH has your panties in a twist:?

sorry, ANOTHER in a LONG LIST of fucking unbelievable mistakes by this candidate...

NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME...

[Moochy]

78. Whats played out

is paying homage to St. Ronnie Reagan's Shrine.

[LostinVA]

98. OMFG -- She is NOT a Clinton supporter

KNEEJERK.


HRC supporters are not the only ones not to be enamored of Senator Obama.

[PVnRT]

99. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Lynne, a Clinton supporter? That's funny.

[2rth2pwr]

2. ___

[LynneSin]

4. Oh I'll never forget!

Nuff said

[murbley40]

94. Lynn, are you still waiting for his" trickel down" to trickel to you?

[LostinVA]

100. Why do you think she knows how to avoid DE tollbooths?

[LynneSin]

107. Sweetie - it doesn't take much effort to do so

:eyes:

but I love you anyways even if your wedding didn't make the gay stick on me

[LostinVA]

110. We tried REALLY, REALLY hard

[LynneSin]

112. Did anyone catch the gay at your wedding

There seemed to be alot of straight people there!

[LostinVA]

113. Hmmm... my BIL does think Johnny Depp is cute

[donkeyotay]

92. Great cartoon. I WAS forgetting why I didn't like him

until Obama reminded us all. The disaster known as Reagan continues. Much of what's wrong with the bush administration was build by Reagan and the president's daddy.

In October Surprise, Gary Sick writes about how the CIA, all pissed off over the Church Commission and Carter's trying to end some of the black ops, would get Reagan-Bush bumperstickers and cut off the name Reagan. Now we've got the CIA scion doing an equally excellent job of ruining the country. His recession is going to make the Reagan recession look mild.

[Thrill]

5. Broken Record?

[caligirl]

7. Current FAA shortages of ATC workers makes me wonder how

much is attributable to raygun. My hairdressor in Hawaii had a hubby who lost his job in that single act of union busting by raygun.

[LynneSin]

9. I was affected by Social Security cuts and that screwed alot of kids up

In 1982 there were a bunch of kids who dropped out of high school their senior year just to get enrolled into a community college. It was a lot of stress for those kids who should have been allowed to enjoy their last year in high school. And for many of us, like myself, I had no choice but to lose the money that supported our family after my father had died.

[durrrty libby]

13. The losers on The DU defending that asshole is a new low here

which is saying something, since many are already swimming in the sewer

[Kucinich4America]

60. This is coming from a Hillbot whose very screenname is a violation of DU rules

I'll bet someone signing in as "durty al from troll" wouldn't last long.

[TankLV]

76. WTF?!?!?!

[TankLV]

75. yup - knows no limits...

disgusting...

[jackson_dem]

85. I can't believe it. Attack Bill Clinton, defend Reagan

[calico1]

106. Amazing, isn't it? Reagan a great guy, Clinton

to blame for all that is wrong in this country. I wonder how long before some here start praising GWB? :puke:

[TwilightZone]

8. Historical revisionism seems to be rather popular of late.

Personally, I don't recall anything he did that didn't nearly destroy one social program or another. He almost singlehandedly wrecked the education system in this country.

[hayu_lol]

11. As for Reagan, Lynne is right on the mark...

starting with the delay of our hostage release until after Reagan's swearing in ceremony and progressing on through his slimy dealing with terrorists while protesting that he wasn't and continuing through a time of almost continuous layoffs in the manufactuing trades and then to his supreme effort to ASSIST corporations in their efforts to move offshore(that one really worked to our benefit didn't it?), Reagan was one of the most failed presidents in history.

Smarter than Bush? No. He just memorized a better script.

Obama's comments about Reagan will allow Obama to finally fall on his own sword.

[caligirl]

23. Those of us who remember just how destructive Raygun was oought

to put the truth out to the ones who don't know. Perhaps they are too young. My sons are but they do know the truth of raygun because they read a lot.

[Chovexani]

68. I'm a child of the 80s.

Raygun was the first president I remember. And even as a child I knew that bastard was evil.

[sallyseven]

24. What he did to the disabled was a major

sin. He kicked people off without hearings. They had to re-apply and go through the process all over again. It took at least 2 years to get back on for some. Some just died. They were not living large on SS Dis. He treated them like dirt. I hate him with such a vengeance I shutter when I see someone praise him. Obama is very young and foolish, He need some more real history lessons.

[Zhuk]

10. it was foolish

It was foolish for Obama to bring up Reagan, especially when he is pandering to an audience that loathes the man and his presidency. It's like a Republican candidate praising a dem president like Clinton or FDR, it wouldnt go down well with them and would probably cost them some support

[MsMagnificent]

108. He's just pandering to the 'pukes

Another reason among many to X him from my list.

A list which seems to be down to 2 now: Kucinich and Edwards, in response to comment #1...

Unlike the 'pukes, there ARE more than just two 'viable' candidates on our roster. Completely ridiculous to assume that if one doesn't like Obama they therefore MUST be for Clinton!
Being simplistic is for simpletons.

[H2O Man]

12. He was a vain and cruel man.

He was one of the worst politicians in the history of our nation. And he really should have been impeached for the numerous crimes that are known as the Iran-Contra scandal.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

20. I totally agree with H2O Man and

Lynne Sin. He was the worst President until * was given the White House by the SCOTUS.

[Horse with no Name]

27. Arguably worse than Bush

Because it was the foundation HE laid that enabled the presidency and this current malfeasance.

[H2O Man]

30. He was the governor

of California at the time of the Kent State killings in Ohio. When speaking to a reporter, he said, "Maybe a little blood in the streets will be a good lesson for these students." I don't care what outfit they dressed him in, or what line they gave him to read -- he never really changed. He was always that type of person.

[LynneSin]

48. Here's the thing about Reagan - if Reagan never became president

it's highly unlikely we would have seen anyone like any of the George Bushes in office.

The current asshole in office was a stooge run by those same people who worked for Reagan and wanted to bring the Reagan years back to the white house. Knowing that there weren't any offspring of Reagans suitable to run for office, they went to Bush Sr. family and figured they could get Jeb & George Jr. into governor positions and hopefully get Jeb lined up to take over the White House.

The irony of it all is Jeb lost in 1994 for his governor position making him a hard sell to run for president while that idiot from Texas did win in 1994. That election made the chimp heir apparant in 2000 (the repukes gave away 1996 thinking they could probably immpeach Clinton or at least hold him off with a repuke controlled congress).

No Reagan would have meant no George Bush today.

How many lives have died needlessly because of Reagan or those offspring of Reagan.

[OneGrassRoot]

61. I believe that wholeheartedly. That's why I'm stunned. n/t

[Tennessee Gal]

21. H20 Man hits it out of the park with one swing!

[flyarm]

14. i feel the same..and i am no Hillary supporter..i am a retired flight crew that saw the devistation

of my industry by Reagan..i guess those that invoke Hillary spin are too young to have been screwed by Reagan!

I saw Reagan destroy workers in this country and destroy unions in this country and destroy the middle class in this country..i saw my hubby's investments got to trash under reagan..i sold my house for less tha n it was built for under Reagan.

I met up front hostages who were manipulated by the Reagan cabal..who were held in Iran..and were used as pawns by the Reagan cabal..

I fucking hated Reagan and what he did to this country of mine..we are still under the Reagan neo cons..

please save the Reagan bullshit for people stupid enough to buy it ..or to young to understand it!

fly

[depakid]

38. "too young to have been screwed by Reagan!"

No, they just don't realize HOW screwed they are- 'cause they don't know any different.

People have always graduated uni loaded up with tons of debt. Haven't they?

[melody]

15. Reagan was one huge catastrophe to any Democrat old enough to remember

Before Reagan, we had a good educational system, adequate Social Security, a mental health system that didn't
allow the mentally ill to wander the streets, self-medicating on drugs, and a host of other things that made
life easier for those of us who aren't filthy rich in one way or another.

[TwilightZone]

18. "old enough to remember"

I've been wondering if that is part of the issue here. Those not old enough to remember his actual presidency would only have the media's revisionist view of him. Maybe that's part of the problem.

[OneGrassRoot]

34. Agreed, and I address this below. Maybe we can do a DU poll...

about the age of those who feel this isn't a big deal. Wonder how honest people would be though. :shrug:

[TwilightZone]

37. That's the trick, of course.

Some people vote in DU polls and openly indicate that they're doing so to mess them up, so they're really not reliable as an indicator of much of anything.

[melody]

86. I think that's a big part of the cognitive gap, yes n/t

[donkeyotay]

95. I think it's a big part of the problem. The post-Reagan generations

grew up in a republican controlled media and have a different fact base than we do. They're oblivious to the war that was waged (and no internet!) for control of the national dialog. Even little things like on labor day news would actually cover a story about unions. Stuff like that was censored from public consciousness a long time ago.

[Lugnut]

16. I'm not either

Why he is deified is beyond me. He did nothing to help me or my family.

[flyarm]

17. I fucking hate Reagan..and for any dem to bring him up while campaigning..foolish..damn foolish

I am for Edwards but i was ok with Obama..no more..that is for damn sure!

fly..who despised reagan..and still does!

[katmondoo]

28. My brother , a polio victim, died because

Reagan didn't want anyone to receive disability.He made the requirements almost impossible. My brother's left arm was useless, his heart was affected by the polio, his right hand and both feet were swollen, he was an automobile repairman the only thing he knew. He was no longer able to do anything and the Social Security doctor refused him. He died a few months later.
Since Social Security knew they could have a law suit on their hands they offered my sister-in-law $10,000.00. Not being too bright she refused it on moral reasons. It could have helped her and her kids. My poor brother was 51 yrs old.
I will never forgive Reagan for that. It was so cruel.

[flyarm]

31. I am so sorry for you and your brother..there are so many stories like yours because of Reagan..

i fucking hated him and i still do..like i have never hated anyone in my lifetime.

I saw my mom screwed because of him..my dads union dropped my mom's health care because the corps dropped the retired and deceased union guys families ( my dad had died) ..my mom had Leukemia and she could not get insurance then..

My union was killed by Reagan..and the safety of Flying passengers was also lost because we had no firewall to protect you and us!

Reagan sold this country piece by piece to the Japanese and foreign countries..more drugs came into this country while Nancy ran her bogus drug program..( of which my hubby did a pamphlet for children ..thinking it was legit..we now know was not and we both resent hubby was used...!)

I fucking hate Reagan with every ounce of my being..

he is responsible for MKULTRA..the drug running ..the abuse of children in this country..

and for the destruction of the middle class..

it is beyond me why any dem would put THAT FUCKER UP as an example for anything!

I am so sorry for your family and your loss..there was no excuse for anything Reagan did ..i just don't understand how so many Americans vote against their own well being..and their own safety and security.

I just don't understand that.


fly

[hellbound-liberal]

19. I think Reagan deserves t occupy a special place in Hell for what he did to people who depended on

the mental health system. As president, he cut aid for federally-funded community-run mental health programs and put thousands of mentally ill people on the streets. When he did that, I knew that I hated him and everything that he stood for. I think Obama had a point in that Reagan did reinspire the Republican Party and give them a sense of purpose but I don't think it was very smart to hold him up as a symbol of anything good.

[THUNDER HANDS]

22. I think you can appreciate what Reagan accomplished without praising it

As a matter of history, what Reagan managed to do was shift politics in this country radically in one direction.

Which, last time I checked, is what we're all trying to accomplish here and what we hope our eventual nominee will do once they're elected.

[Tennessee Gal]

25. In the wrong direction.

Harmful to the majority of Americans. That is nothing to be praised in any way whatsoever.

[THUNDER HANDS]

29. that's not the point

There are only two directions, right and left. Reagan moved the country as far to the right as FDR did the left.

Clinton managed to move it back towards the center - as evidenced by the last two presidential elections which were basically 50/50.

The next president has a chance to be what Reagan was - a guy who could move this country radically in a different direction, hopefully the left.

[OneGrassRoot]

33. I respectfully disagree, Magic Rat...

Reagan is a HOT BUTTON. He is a negative hot button for liberals/progressives and a positive hot button for conservatives and NEOCONS.

I think this was very ill-advised. I really do. And we can usually tell off-the-cuff remarks versus calculated, conscious remarks. Obama knew what he was doing and he knew the potential blowback (as well as the potential crossover repub votes).

And, I'm not an agist, but I do think one's age is possibly indicative of how you feel about mentioning Reagan in this context. And I've read the entire section over and over, and I can't get away from having a bad taste in my mouth about it, combined with Obama's overtures to the right at the expense of democrats.

[LynneSin]

45. Amen to that

Magic Rat, if you're reading this, you were pretty young during the Reagan years and probably barely remember what went on. It's like for me to pass judgement on the Nixon administration. Sure, I was alive during his years in office but I barely remember anything except what I've read in books.

I didn't read about the Reagan years in books - I lived it.

[THUNDER HANDS]

55. I remember, vaguely, the Reagan years

but this whole notion of what that time in America was like is besides the point. NOBODY here likes Reagan.

I'm sure Obama didn't find his presidency positive. He was talking about the effect it had and how it changed America.

I don't need to have lived through the whole time to understand the point Obama was making. He could have used FDR as an example too, but he didn't, because that would have little political value.

If it helps him get votes from Democrats who respected Reagan, what's the harm? He didn't praise anything specific about Reagan. In fact, he didn't "praise" him at all.

It's like a Republican saying that FDR was an iconic figure. Republicans might hate what FDR did, because they favor small government, but they can't deny that he's an iconic figure.

And likewise, Democrats can't argue that Reagan didn't transform America, or have a huge effect on it. Much moreso than Nixon or Clinton did.

[SoxFan]

71. Let's try this again

Ok, riddle me this...

When Reagan constantly invoked FDR during the 1984 campaign, was he praising the New Deal? Was he calling for a greater role for government in improving the lot in life of the less fortunate? of course not. he was refering to FDR's ability to transcend the previously held notions of what constituted the political norm. He was comparing himself to FDR in the sense that he sought to be a "game-changing" figure.

If someone can show me where Barack Obama, a guy who spent the Reagan years as a young community organizer in the south side of Chicago, praised Reagan on the substance of policy, I'll reconsider my opinion. But frankly, Obama hasn't praised Reagan's policies, so I'm standing by my words.

[jaybeat]

62. YOU are the one disguising the "point"

Obama has been quoted as NOT recognizing Reagan for "moving" the country, but for his SPECIFIC political and policy approach--rejecting the "excesses" (Obama's word!) of the '60s and '70s. The LIES about Reagan (that his policies "restored entrepreneurship" or encouraged "accountability") are the things Obama praises him for.

WE did not bring Reagan into the race for the Democratic nomination for President. Obama did, and deserves to feel the heat for it. He's either horribly naive, disingenuous, pandering or something worse.

[LynneSin]

43. What Reagan accomplished - you're kidding me right

He fucked up an entire nation by making drastic cuts to social programs, totally ignored a growing medical crisis (AIDs) and spent our economy harshly into the ground so he could say what "Oh I ended the Cold War"?

USSR and the Soviet Bloc nations were already starting to limp along and would have ended anyways.

Oh and all the while pumping money to the Afghani Rebels fighting the Soviet union - those rebels, who included Bin Laden, were the built up of what we know as Al Queda today.

[THUNDER HANDS]

56. you're missing the forrest from the trees, Lynne

What Reagan did was take conservatism, hard right conservatism, and make it mainstream. He transformed the politics in this nation for more than a generation.

That's something that very few presidents have done.

Whether you agree or disagree with the things he did while in office, you can't deny that he accomplished something in a macro level.

[LostinVA]

105. No, he's not -- unfortunately

[IsItJustMe]

103. For a dem that remembers the days of Regan,

there is just no way to spin this. It sucks. There are just so many other examples BO could have chosen to make his point. It's just not appropriate for him to be invoking the name of Regan.

[MrCoffee]

111. that's the fallacy with Reagan = transformational leader

Any candidate for public office who idealizes or even looks up to what Reagan did in his overreaching, unconstitutional power grab is not worthy of the office.

I will fight tooth and nail any Democratic president who abuses the power of the office of the president in such fashion.

[MaineDem]

26. I hear ya, Lynne

I'm getting tired of hiding all the Reagan threads.

[Bonobo]

32. More cowbell!

[hayu_lol]

36. More: Reagan, while governor of California...

closed most of the residential mental hospitals in the state, throwing people who could not live independently out on the streets. They are still on the streets in CA. Many are vets.

Reagan helped destroy much of what was good for the people in CA and then moved his programs to Washington. He, with his program cancellations, killed a large number of people who had been on disability.

As a actor, he never hesitated to pick up his unemployment check. As Governor and President, he never hesitated to stop programs that assisted the weakest of us...those who needed the help the most.

As a slimeball, after he knocked Nancy up, then he divorced Jane. Morally, the man was a bankrupt. Is that the sort of morality Obama espouses?

[Bonobo]

40. Yes. Obama is clearly a muslim, wife-beating, drug-addicted homophobe.

How do we know this?

Because, in an appeal to the other side of the divide in America, he dared to say that Americans felt optimistic when Reagan was president.

[FiveGoodMen]

44. Straw man of the week at least.

[Bonobo]

46. Hard to believe the Hillary people left any straw left for me to use!

[FiveGoodMen]

50. People's concerns about Obama are legitimate. You shouldn't write them off with a joke.

Just for the record, I'm NOT an HRC supporter.

[Bonobo]

53. On this board of late, it is awfully difficult to separate REAL CONCERN from trolling.

Don't you think?

I am happy to engage in a non-rancorous discussion.

And for the record, I am supporting Edwards first and Obama second.

[FiveGoodMen]

63. Emotions are running so high that it IS hard to tell who has a point and who just wants to fight

After listening to the scrap of interview footage where Obama says Reagan gave the country what it was ready for, I'm pretty disappointed. Some of his comments worry me.

My only point here was: I think discussing his Reagan reference is sensible and legitimate, while many have suggested that it's nothing at all.

(I'm hoping for Edwards, myself)

[OneGrassRoot]

65. Thank you...I know you weren't directing it at me...lol

but I thank you for being reasonable and recognizing the legitimate need for some of us to work this out and trying to explain that.

[TankLV]

77. well - he DOES pander to homophobes - so you got that one by association...

hard to IGNORE the FACTS...

[mnhtnbb]

51. I'll vouch for that. I was resident of CA when he was Governor.

My husband is a psychiatrist who spent half his professional life working in Veterans hospitals, including
in Los Angeles. Don't get him started about what Reagan did to mental health programs in CA--and how the practice of closing state hospitals threw people into the streets, jails, or emergency rooms for mental health care.

The concept of community mental health centers was great. The problem? Republicans don't fund
them. Voila--100's of thousands of people left with no care.

Great idea, Obama. Got any more like that?

:sarcasm:

[Fire Walk With Me]

97. I read a recent statistic saying that up to one quarter of the homeless are vets.

Too bad Republicanism doesn't support our troops.

Fuck Reagan. Utterly and completely, like he fucked us.

[sandnsea]

39. Boy I'd sure like to change the trajectory he set us on n/t

[caligirl]

47. TPM points on the Obama comments here:

Late Update: Here are some comments Obama made about Reagan's presidency on Meet the Press in October 2006. In them, he made it far clearer that he disagreed with Reagan's ideas:

But I think, when I think about great presidents, I think about those who transform how we think about ourselves as a country in fundamental ways...And, you know, there are circumstances in which, I would argue, Ronald Reagan was a very successful president, even though I did not agree with him on many issues, partly because at the end of his presidency, people, I think, said, “You know what? We can regain our greatness. Individual responsibility and personal responsibility are important.” And they transformed the culture and not simply promoted one or two particular issues.

Late Late Update: The Huffington Post's Sam Stein adds the important point that Obama also compared himself to JFK later in the discussion. But Stein also adds this about Obama's remarks:

In fact, Obama offered praise for the Gipper, lauding him for tapping into the country's concern with the growth and "excesses" of the federal government, and its desire to "return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship" -- hardly a welcomed interpretation within progressive circles.


My point: Obama may have been trying to point to Bush policy of large government and that Bush's parties idol disagreed with this. In other words Bush isn't in line with reaganomics.

Unfortuante BO did this. Hope it doesn't hurt him to badly. He isn't the sum of a single statement.

[LynneSin]

49. THAT makes me very Angry

Trust me, I don't want a republican in the White House in 2008, but reading stuff like that hardly inspires me to want to support the guy outside of a vote.

[caligirl]

52. I'm waiting to see. One comment, isn't the whole campaign or the whole candidate.

And I do regret my one vote for raygun(my first ever vote and I had no idea why I even voted for him), I did not repeat it.

[LynneSin]

69. As I've said before - I'll vote for the guy

Just makes it difficuult to get out there and campaign for someone who may or may not be pandering to a crowd I do not like - Reaganites.

and btw, plenty of Bush voters who regret their vote now members of DU - don't worry about it!

[caligirl]

72. actually I just read a statement quoted from Ron Reagan Jr who is not a fan of his dad's politics...

He said as an agent of change he thought that was right. He said its time for a cultural shift, that we are overdue for it

"But while Obama has felt the heat from within his own party, several former Reagan officials and even his son suggest that there are elements of historical truth to the comparison.

"If I understand what he was saying I can't entirely disagree with it. They both came along at times when society was on the cusp of change and they are both agents of change," Ron Reagan Jr, told the Huffington Post. "As far as Barack Obama being a similar agent of change, that remains to be seen. But what I do see him saying is that we are in a historical moment right now like the 60s and 80s. And I think he's right. We are overdue for a cultural shift." "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/17/reagan-advisers-see-a-bit_n_82057.html

[TankLV]

79. so - obama COMPARED HIMSELF TO JFK! afterall, just as I an others claimed...

can you tell it to the other obamabots that try to claim OTHERWISE, please...

they must have an awfully hard time keeping their lies straight lately...

[PatSeg]

54. I am not a HRC supporter

and I remember the Reagan years far too well. I was one of many people who struggled just to survive. Nothing trickled down to me and my children. The republican candidates speak his name as if he was a god. Any democrat who speaks of him in any favorable light is probably trying to fish in the republican voters pool.

I will not judge Obama based on one or two poorly thought out comments, but this isn't the first time he has shown poor political judgment and alienated a large block of Democratic voters.

[IndianaJones]

58. Reagan made my life better. I still don't like him. nt.

[dajoki]

59. Mine also...

Long story short. Lost great job because of Raygun's union busting tactics.

[AzDar]

64. Vote Edwards!

That is all.:patriot:

[cd3dem]

66. Pimping to the Reaganites for votes

Reagan helped my educational development! I learned how to make protest signs during the Reagan years...

[stravu9]

67. VOTE EDWARDS

THE ONLY CANDIDATE WHO IS NOT BOUGHT AND PAID FOR.

[SoxFan]

70. Jeezus, LynneSin, you know better

Read what Obama said.

He did NOT praise Reagan's policies.

He did NOT say that he would implement policies similar to Reagan's.

He did NOT say that he considered Reagan's policies to be more worthy than Bill Clinton's.

He DID say that Reagan left a more profound imprint on the political landscape.

When Reagan was around, he often invoked FDR while trying to undo much of FDR's legacy. When Reagan invoked Roosevelt, he wasn't praising the specifics of the TVA or the CCC, or singing the praises of the New Deal social safety net. What he was doing was comparing his attempts to change the parameters of the political culture in the same way FDR did in the 1930s. Both Reagan and FDR had a "paradigm shifting" effect on the political culture of their era.

Clinton, by contrast, was a good president who did not profoundly alter the political landscape. In a sense, he's a Democratic Eisenhower. Ike didn't do anything particularly exciting, but he was, for a 1950s Republican, a decent, steady hand. Likewise, Clinton had some notable foreign policy achievements (Ireland, the Balkans) and some success on the domestic front (deficit reduction, national service), but from a political (as opposed to policy) standpoint, he hasn't left a real game changing legacy.

Obama wasn't really talking about policies. He was talking about leadership and governance styles, and the impact on the political landscape. Unfortunately, too many people from Hillary's camp are trying to blur and distort this distinction for cheap political points.

[ClericJohnPreston]

83. I'm from the Edwards Camp

and your "new" cultist "talking point", which you have assimilated, is pure garbage.

Obama has been saying these things his entire career, back to his book in 1995.

He is Repub-lite.

Sorry, no CULTISTS here!

[SoxFan]

89. Where were you in the 1980s?

Where were you in the Reagan years?

Were you working in economically devestated neighborhoods in Chicago?

Were you organizing voter registration drives in poor communities?

Were you actively speaking out against economic injustice?

Or were you just another slug who bitched but didn't act?

I suspect it is the latter.

[TankLV]

73. me neither.

but aparently racist, bigoted repukes are more important to obamabots than gay DEMOCRATS...

disgusting, simply disgusting...

[AtomicKitten]

80. It's only "fondly" if that's what you choose to believe.

That's not an accurate interpretation of events, but you are entitled to roll with it.

[ripple]

82. He was complimenting his ability to appeal to a broad audience

Not his policy initiatives.

[Moochy]

84. Baiscally people with a clue about St. Reagan

Are dubious of the wisdom of bringing this up.

The other camp of pragmatic RealPolitik players are saying that this is a play for the independent votes in CA.

So Which is it? is it coy? or is it vague? and realpolitik? So brush it off, it's just an empty promise right?
Just some lip-service to the Myth of St Ronnie, to get the ignorant middle vote.

I guess this is teh politics of Hope... as in I fucking hope he doesnt mean what he just said. lol. good luck with that.

[onehandle]

87. Reagan's policies screwed my freshly widowed mother.

And made it Very difficult for me to get through college.

He fucked over the middle-class. Simple as that.

[LynneSin]

88. And I know exactly what he did cause it was the same with my family

My mother was also a widow.

I swear some of these people who defend Obama are too young to have actually lived through Reaganomics.

[onehandle]

91. Bingo.

And the deification of Reagan by the GOP since then has been effective in erasing reality.

[murbley40]

93. I'm right there with you!,lynn!!

[IsItJustMe]

96. I consider myself a dem, and I must say that BO's continued comments about how Regan changed the

country and how the Repukes are the ones with the new ideals, well, it's quit demoralizing to say the least. Combined with the fact that he thinks a lot of Lieberman (who is endorsing McCain), and all of his let's work it out with the Repukes talk, frankly makes me unconformable as hell with him.

I don't know if BO knows it, but his Repuke cheer leading is setting up a situation in the minds of voters, of 'What's the difference?' And if I am correct, people will go with someone like McCain, who is a known quantity. I just think BO is making a horrible mistake.

[bluedog]

104. when one brings up Reagan

they forget that the generation that lived under his presidency know the facts........we suffered.....our jobs suffered....we had to skimp on many things......both the white and black races know the hardships he caused.

the younger generation should ask their parents how they survived his rule........

If Obama wanted to speak about how much better Reagan was than the others....perhaps he should have switched to the Republican Party.......

he may be pandering to the Reagan Democrats...but he is also turning the normal Democratic voter against him by even bringing up Reagan's name......the GOP has a field of men who do the exact same thing!