Barney Frank "stupefied" by Obama's inane comments on Reagan

[Herman Munster]

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jZgpk7gY2IC3i9AbIPMwqpIIVcVA

In the same interview, the Illinois senator, vowing to unleash a wave of reform, said Reagan had "changed the trajectory of America in a way that, you know, Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not."

The Clinton camp pounced on the remarks with campaign supporter, Congressman Barney Frank, saying he was "stupefied" by the comments.

"This notion that style in the presidency trumps substance, is a terrible error. Ronald Reagan was a dedicated right-winger in every aspect," Frank said in a campaign conference call.

[rinsd]

1. The insults hurled Frank's way should be interesting.

[TwilightZone]

4. Wouldn't be the first time.

His endorsement of Hillary wasn't received very gracefully.

[TwilightZone]

17. Wow...

not even five minutes. They're getting good at this....

[Flabbergasted]

63. Is reagan one of his favorites as well? nt

[Deja Q]

72. Since when DON'T politicians hit below the belt?

:shrug:

[durrrty libby]

2. Love...love...love Barney the truth teller

[skipos]

3. I like Frank, but Hillary still has my vote for the worst candidate on the Dem side

BY FAR.

[ursi]

yep, she's a candidate for those who like reruns

[jackson_dem]

66. Because the 90's sucked so much!

[Thrill]

5. Another idiot too stupid to realize exactly what Obama was talking about

[ShortnFiery]

9. Another one of the "old guard" barks on behalf of "big dawg" and his DLC establishment cronies.

Thanks for selling out Barney. People change when they think that they are entitled to rule as long as they "feel like it."

Yeah, we get it - your entrenched power base is threatened. :eyes:

What "sweet whispers" of increased powers did HRC's people promise you?

[Skwmom]

10. Not too stupid. Just another politician willing to distort the truth.

I am so sick of politicians.

[Blue_In_AK]

15. People understand Obama's intent

It's just his choice of words that were controversy-producing. He needed to place more of an emphasis on the fact that although Reagan moved the country, it was definitely in the wrong direction and that he intends (or hopes) to make as significant a turn back. His choice of words and talking about the Republicans' big ideas (not big BAD ideas) gave the wrong impression, although I'm sure he didn't intend to.

[MonkeyFunk]

16. Barney Frank

is one of the smartest guys in Congress. Calling him an idiot is... well... idiotic.

[TankLV]

77. yup!

[terrya]

27. You don't know Barney Frank, do you?

Barney Frank is one of the smartest people ever to serve in the House of Representatives. I'm glad he's a Democrat.

[gaiilonfong]

37. He is a Hillary SHILL

As a gay man with transgender friends, He should have been this forceful about out brothers and sisters in the transgender community when it came to ENDA...HE DIDN'T
So BARNEY STFU!

[MADem]

44. Anyone who calls Barney Frank an idiot needs to check the mirror.

Barney IS the sharpest knife in the drawer. He can out-think, out-strategize, and out-debate ANYONE.

[Samantha]

58. He's not an idiot -- he's "playing" for his audience

He thinks we are the idiots who cannot grasp exactly what Obama was talking about -- so he resorts to try and make it something it was not.

[DURHAM D]

61. A fool like you calling Barney an idiot and stupid...

Says way more about you than it does about Barney.

Do you even know who he is?

[Deja Q]

73. More like ignorant or naive; not outright "idiot too stupid".

But it's not him personally; most people thrive on knee-jerk reactions and not thinking into comments using other points or perspectives. Some issues are multi-faceted, but that's boring compared to a real shit-slinging contest.

This is politics, after all.

[Joe the Revelator]

6. And Frank shows his inability to understand simple english

Like the fact that when someone says that another person "changed the country" it does not mean that you necessarily agree with what that change was and how it was enacted.

[SoFlaJet]

8. Gee

what a great answer-I don't know I thought maybe I was reading it all wrong but the Clinton camp is a desperate bunch aren't they? They will do and say almost anything to grab for this power-and I really am starting to dislike them

[bellasgrams]

41. He understood it just like every honest person, only BO suppporters

don't get it. It was stated in plain, simple english, and he stuck his foot in his mouth. Don't worry, it happens to everyone now and then. But to look up to Reagan is pretty sick.

[we can do it]

79. Hey Hitler Changed Things, Too. Why Not Name Him?

Who cares if it was for the worse? Why bother to come up with someone who actualy helped this country? Oh yea then throw the "age" thing out. Don't forget to hope all will be ok....

[katmondoo]

7. Obama should have clarified his remark

[mtnester]

12. What he should have done, as a Democrat, running for the Democratic nomination

was use FDR or JFK or deargod Jimmy (most under-rated prez EVAH) Carter as an analogy.

Not Reagan. Absolutely not Reagan.

[tigereye]

20. seems way too far to go to gather in that independent vote...

[ShortnFiery]

18. It was clear "on the surface" and an DIS to HRC's husband. Bill & Hill will be same corporate lovers

DLC Executive Branch's 3rd Term will be "more of the same" ass-grabbing bipartisanship for the sake of bolstering up the ruling power's right wing duopoly at the expense of us little people, i.e., The Middle Class.

[Frances]

31. African Americans did better economically under Bill

than under any other President as I recall.

[terisan]

64. Obama voted FOR Bush's energy bill, Clinton did not.

[jackson_dem]

67. Obama vote for this bill too, Clinton did not

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050307/zegart

[MADem]

47. Clarification would have obviated the 'triangulation' deal he was working

You know, that tactic everyone griped at Bill Clinton for using--like it's the crime of the century, or something.

He was fishing for Indies--that's what that comment was all about. Plain and simple fishing for old Reagan Dems...

Edit--stray letter...!

[sunonmars]

11. I said this Reagan thing was going to gather into a hurricane......

and here we go.

All Obama's supporters failed to grasp that the soundbite will be enough to hang him, ordinary people dont look into the full context.

He's handed his head on a plate to Hillary.

This thing he said about republicans being the party of ideas for the last 15 years is going down like a sack of shit within the Democratic hierarchy from what i gather. Its really been gasps all around.

you can bet your ass this is going to come up in the Democratic debate on Monday.

[PaDem]

22. at this juncture, I support Obama (I think)........

and I think there is some validity to what you say. Obama's comments regarding Reagan were incredibly foolish. He needed to be clearer about what it was that he meant. He'd be wise to clarify his comments and repudiate the worst of Reagan's record (I know, it's all bad), unless of course he actually admires the work Reagan did during his two terms as President.

As a point of disclosure, I've decided to support Obama at this point in time only because I think Edwards is through and because I think Hillary Clinton can't win the general election against most of the Republican candidates. If Edwards bounces back, I'm on that bandwagon.

[unc70]

54. Obama has used RW TPs to attack Dem core issues from the start

He started with telling Boomers to get over themselves and stop refighting the same battles from the 60's until now. It's a new type of politics.

Then his backers promoted him as the JFK, sometimes quite directly like Ted Sorensen introducing Obama at campaign events as the heir of Camelot.

Next his book and his speeches use RW phrases and language to attack fellow Dems and our core values.

The disconnect between his speeches and his debate answers became more apparent.

While many of us tried determine is he was naive or manipulative or something else, Obama brings up Reagan. BOOM!!!

In pushing aside the Moses generation of civil rights leaders, in telling the Boomers leave the field, he has angered the very group(s) that know how to get their message out, to self organize, and to motivate others. (He might not have remembered that civil rights was the first movement that inspired many Boomers to become activists.)

Most Boomers have long memories that make it hard you to spin them, hard to hustle. It doesn't take long for those who fought in Vietnam to expose anyone inflating their role or wearing medals not earned. Not matter the movement, we all learned to detect the ringer, the informant, the inciter at the meeting, the march, the demonstration. We squabled with ourselves over methods, goals, priorities, money, egos, power, selfishness, and sacrifice. And we still do. We hoped and prayed for success some day (please make that someday soon), and some rare times we made another stop forward, and more often found ourselves fighting not be forced to retreat.

Don't try to charm us, or divide us along fault lines that might not even exist, or conceal details from us hoping we not notice , or expect us to accept anything without looking at every detail, don't misappropriate our music, and don't piss us off! We might eventually forgive, we won't forget, we won't trust you or follow you, and we will not shut up.

If you you don't understand or don't believe me, you may soon have that experience one gets instead of what one really wanted.

[Frances]

38. Many of Obama's supporters are young

They probably don't remember FDR and what it was like before FDR took office. It was FDR and the Dems in Congress who created the strong middle class that we had after World War II (examples: the GI Bill enabled thousands of people to attend college who would not have been able to do so otherwise; support for unions enabled workers to get health care and pensions they'd never had before).

Reagan busted the air controllers' strike and was anti-union. He was also pro-corporation (after all, when his career as an actor failed, GE paid him big bucks to spout their corporate line). He was also for privatization. George W Bush would never have been able to get away with his corporate give-aways if Reagan had not laid the ground work.

[Phred42]

13. GOod. Maybe Dems will wake up

The last thing we need is a new version of the DLC

EDWARDS is not perfect - but he is the best chance for keeping Democracy

[ShortnFiery]

Edwards is Obama's BEST choice for VP running mate.

If Edwards is TRUE BLUE to his populist values, he should see "the handwriting on the wall" to realize that he can push more legislation (and convince Obama of his views) as VP and thus, President of The Senate. :shrug:

[Phred42]

51. Ok -but would rather see Edwards/Feingold

Kucinich in for Pelosi
Dodd in for Reid

Richardson or Biden Sec of State

But Edwards / Obama would work for me

[BootinUp]

14. Obama should eat his words literally, I hope Hillary crams them down his throat

For the remainder of the race.


The liberals have the upper hand and he wants to beat em down talking about how the Clinton years sucked (no ideas on the Dem side) the ideas wer on the repuke side.

The excesses of the 60's and 70's (i.e. liberals got what they deserved from Ronnie Raygun)

Fuck that.

[ShortnFiery]

19. You're taking me back to the 70s ... and Aerosmith

Dream On! :evilgrin:

We must live in a parallel universe. :shrug:

[durrrty libby]

24. "Obama should eat his words literally, I hope Hillary crams them down his throat"

Me too. This is a gift and she is already responding perfectly


When Obama is not reciting his stump speech, he sticks his foot in deep

Just like the debates. He's not good off the cuff, only when he's channeling a preacher

[Frances]

21. I think Obama made a huge mistake for the Dems

by making Reagan an issue in this campaign.

The Dems' best chance is to link Repubs to Bush, not Reagan.

Besides, why is Obama looking that far back? Shouldn't he be looking forward and telling us what his vision for the future is?

Obama says he's for change, but he also has kind words for Reagan and he says he'll have Repubs in his cabinet.

Why does that make me suspicious that there won't be real change in a positive direction for the middle class?

Why am I not hearing about the changes Obama will make in the future?

[ShortnFiery]

26. Methinks it was *pure genius* and thou protesth too much.

:shrug:

[sunonmars]

36. Genius? wtf

Look how your "genius" boy is panning out. The Dems are going apeshit over this. He basically just insulted the entire party's record over the last 15 years and took a huge dig at the Clinton Presidency.

I find that reprehensible and I can assure you a lot of others are too.

I think he just killed his campaign stone dead.

[Maven]

39. Yeah, sure.

[PaDem]

28. I agree. While the GOP candidates are doing everything........

they can to channel Ronald Reagan, one of our candidates says something about him that is at best ambigious, and at worst flattering. People can argue about what Obama was "really saying" until they are red in the face, but the bottom line is these comments were foolish and will hurt his candidacy with liberals while potentially reinforcing mythological GOP talking points.

[indimuse]

23. Obama needs to..

continues to speak while not playing "Super Star"...JFK...MLK...Madonna.......the truth is quite revealing. Please NO_bama...speak.

[Disturbed]

30. "Reagan had "changed the trajectory of America ..."

Can anyone explain what that means? I listened to his entire comments & still cannot
figure out what he was trying to explain.

[zulchzulu]

25. OK, Barney. Now talk about Obama like he wants to be just like Reagan...mmmkay?

Barney. Give it a rest. If you see Hillary on the Caller ID, ignore it. You're making an ass out of yourself.

[oasis]

29. As L. Ron Hubbard is to Tom Cruise, Ronald Reagan is to Obama.

:puke:

[robbedvoter]

34. Good post.

[Ian David]

32. I'm still not ready to throw Obama under the bus just yet. However...

Up until the Obama's "Mussolini Ronald Reagan made the trains run on-time" thing, I still preferred Obama slightly over Hillary

Now, my preferences are as follows:

1) Kucinich
2) Edwards
3) Clinton (by a small margin over Obama)
4) Obama
5) Gravel
--- --- --- --- ---
6) Ron Paultard
7) Joe Biden
8) Jonathon "The Impaler" Sharkey
9) Adolf 9iu11ani
10) Insane McCain
11) Der Mittenfuhrer
12) Mike Fuckabee
13) Alan Keyes

[nichomachus]

45. Why are you marginalizing Max?

Your pretty extensive list completely ignores one of the truly most capable candidates -- Mad Max Riekse

http://www.madmaxforpresident.com/

Kid you not. This guy is on my primary ballot.

[Ian David]

49. I've already committed to The Imaper for the nomination as The Silly Party Candidate.

[robbedvoter]

33. I was too - I was in shock yesterday when I found out - still in recovery

I had no idea Obama wasn't progressive - I had assumed he was more so than Hillary. next time I won't skip my daily Krugman - seems he was on to him for some time.

[HeraldSquare212]

35. He forgave Bill for DOMA because it was 'politics'

so I guess politics comes first with him.

[MADem]

50. Well, it WAS only politics. Only people who are shortsighted and don't see the context have trouble

understanding that.

A Republican Congress was ready to enshrine the features of DOMA as an AMENDMENT to the fucking Constitution. Try undoing THAT shit--it's way tougher. Look at how long it took to undo Prohibition. And trust me, more people wanted a damn drink than cared one way or another if gay people get equal rights. When it ain't your ox being gored, you're often less compassionate about those sorts of things.

What DOMA did was throw a small piece of red meat to the GOP lion, so it wouldn't EAT our Constitution Baby.

A Democratic Congress, with a safe majority, can grab DOMA and wipe their ass with it before they repeal it totally.

I'm amazed at how many people don't take the long view, here.

What's better? Fight with the Republicans and have them flog the issue to the fifty states as a Constitutional amendment, bringing out the meanspirited assholes across the land to vote with fists pumping and voices raised against "them thar queers" or let them think they got a big win, when all they got is something that can be easily undone when we have a large enough majority.

Barney gets it. Way too many people here don't, though.

[durrrty libby]

52. Great explanation. It deserves its own thread

Bravo:applause:

[MADem]

53. Thank you! I won't bother, though--it'll only sink like a stone in the current environment.

The primary season isn't a good time to have a substantive discussion about Constitutional issues and Equal Rights.

It's mudslinging time up in here, unfortunately! All ya can do is scrape off the crap and toss it back, and try to duck as much as possible!

[durrrty libby]

56. Wel I would gladly give it a few kicks

[MADem]

60. That's nice of you to say.

Seriously, though, the Reagan Wars will probably run for another twenty hours or so...

[durrrty libby]

62. Maybe, but there is no time limit for a little education

[wintersoulja]

40. as attack dog's go...

talk about triangulation!

[ChiciB1]

42. GOOD, GOOD, GOOD For Barney!! n/t

[William769]

43. K&R! He's not the only one!

[nichomachus]

46. I can't believe people are disagreeing with what Barney said

This notion that style in the presidency trumps substance, is a terrible error. Ronald Reagan was a dedicated right-winger in every aspect,

Are you saying that style should trump substance?

Are you saying that promoting this idea is something we should aspire to?

Are you saying that Reagan wasn't a dedicated right winger?

[Cameron27]

48. Good for Barney!

K&R

[xchrom]

55. recommend

[Evergreen Emerald]

57. Finally, some common sense injected into the conversation.

Obama wanted to diss Clinton. And he praised Reagan to do it.

It shows either a lack of historical knowledge about what Reagan's changes were to America, or, more likely as he has shown a pattern of doing it, throwing us under the bus to win an election.

[Bluebear]

59. Frank must be given the BAM. Obama is a movement, not a candidacy, and change. And hope.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4057783

[noiretextatique]

70. LOL

a friend of mine, a union organizer, recently got the BAM. i know she is a very emotionally-driven thinker, but to hear her blather on about obama and michelle make me want to refer her to a psychiatrist. she can't accept the fact that i do not adore obama...it just infuriates her to no end :evilgrin:
similarly, when a green friend of mine caught the BAM, i was puzzled. why, i asked her, would a supposed progressive support a centrist like obama? her reply: "he gives me hope" :eyes:
i just *hope* i don't catch it :scared:

[paulk]

65. Barney makes a really good point, and it's not the one most

people are pinning on. That Reagan was a right winger isn't relevant to what Obama said IMHO... but Frank nails the real problem -

"This notion that style in the presidency trumps substance, is a terrible error."

That's what I got from what Obama said - that style trumps substance. It was a feeling I've had about the Obama campaign all along - it's why I haven't been able to support him - and now he has come right out and said it.

[Gloria]

68. Missing the point...it's the "not being invested" in the issues from

the 60'-70's that should be pissing people off!@ Like, the battle to preserve civil and women's rights has been won?? NOT!!!~

[zulchzulu]

69. Stupefied, I tell ya! Stupefied!

More like acting stupid, Barney....

:boring:

[stravu9]

71. Barney's a RIOT!

LOVE THE GUY!
What a HOOT!

[David Zephyr]

74. I am a big fan of Barney, but I wish he'd put his teeth back in when he's on TV.

.

[Infinite Hope]

75. It was a poor choice of words, though I understood Obama's point and he's right.

Hillary outright said Reagan was one of her favorite candidates. That's more serious if anything is.

[TankLV]

76. So - the hillary haters are wrong on this one, too, huh?! what a fucking surprise...

no surprise there that this confirms the TRUTH about what obama said...

[Renew Deal]

78. Wait until Barney finds out Reagan is Hillary's favorite president.

:rofl: