"[Dean] Will Hand the Entire South to Bush"

[Jack_Dawson]

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/local/7576335.htm

If a liberal New Englander's name is on the general election ticket next year, "it will hand the entire South to George Bush," said Lewis, a 31-year-old medical services salesman from Columbia.

My opinion: Just as I feared, repukes are encouraging their own to vote for Dean in SC, since it's an open primary. This doesn't surprise me in the least, and long confirms what many Clark supporters have been trying to say. Dean has had an impressive run up to this point, but he does lack the crossover appeal of someone who can run against Bush in a General Election. The pukes know this. I wish we Dems could figure it out.

[libview]

1. We better figure out how to deal with it,

because it looks like Dean is going to be our man. It will take a small miracle to beat him now.

[cthrumatrix]

2. you have no idea what Dean will do in the south.....nor do I

what i do see is alot of democrats beating up each other...rove must be smiling

[auntpattywatty]

5. I'm as southern as one can get - am for Gov. Dean 100%

[INTELBYTES]

43. It's a shame to see a party so sold on a person...

...that they would give shrub four more years in office. Dean is an awesome candidate with a great message but this Country is not ready for him yet. You die-hard Dean fans that can't see the writing on the wall will allow the repukes to usher him in as the Democratic nominee to their glee. They know that the Country will by and large turn their back on him. He should be President, but at a different time. Call it bashing if you will, but come a cold November morning in 2004, you will wake up wondering what you have done. :shrug:

[KittyWampus]

48. Who Says The Democratic Party Is SOLD On Dean?

It's not, we're not.

Please don't fall for the hype.

No primary votes have been cast yet.

[bowens43]

52. Win or lose, we will have done the right thing.

If we have to compromise our beliefs to win then it isn't really a win. I find your assumptions about Deans chances to be naive.

That being said. I would have no problem actively supporting any of the candidates, except Clark, in the general election.

[Jack_Dawson]

59. See?

That's the built-in loser mentality that plagues the Dems, and a major reason we continue to lose seats in Congress. I know we're doomed w/ Dean as our candidate but should he become the nominee, I'd support him 100%. If we want Shrub out of office, we can't afford the "if my candidate doesn't win the nomination, I'm going home" pettiness.

[okieinpain]

80. yep, you're right, they said the same thing about brad henry in oklahoma

and just look at how right they were.

[polpilot]

73. Dean will carry the south as he has his own party. He will continue to

confound the naysayers who have bet against him since Dec. '02 when his poll numbers were at *. Ask Kerry, Joe, Gep what he can do with no money, no name recognition BUT with a brilliant plan, brilliant experience, and the ability to think outside the political loop. Dean's the real terminator and will continue to be.

Dean '04...

[phillybri]

3. Even if this is true, WHO CARES!!!

If Dean can win the states Gore won plus one of the following: Ohio, Arizona, New Hampshire; guess what? He wins!

[gttim]

8. If he wins all the states Gore won...

.. he is president! Like Gore should have been!

[bearfartinthewoods]

30. that's not correct. the census changed the field

check out the map and click on the bar at the top of the map for last years info. reapportionment changed everything.

[liberalnurse]

34. Where were you during the 2000

Election? Gore won.

[phillybri]

54. Take Ohio...end of story....

That is more than possible. It's PROBABLE...

[mouse7]

4. Howard Dean revealed as Nazgul!

Howard Dean surrendered his soul to evil because of a stupid ring. Howard Dean is nothing but a horrible shell of a being who chases down creatures weaker than him for all their possessions!

Vote Clark! Clark doesn't hunt hobbits!

[liberalnurse]

39. Oh, that will change peoples minds.

What an inspiring message and informative too. A scholarly approach I see. Indeed.....

[dkf]

6. Ya know, I don't understand why Clark supporters keep on harping

about being from the South because Clark just does not come across as being Southern in the least.

I mean, if you didn't KNOW he came from Arkansas, would you even guess it?

Bill Clinton has a drawl at least. Wes Clark? Undetectable.

How much time did Clark spend in the South anyway?

[Jack_Dawson]

9. Uhhh...Clark Grew Up in Arkansas

He does have a "drawl", and even says "warsh" (hey I didn't say I liked it!)

[Kahuna]

11. Clark eats chitlins and grits. He's southern alright.

I don't know if he eat possum though.

[liberalnurse]

35. What about eating crow?

[HFishbine]

13. But he's polling so well in the South

Florida
---------
Dean 1st
Clark 3rd

Georgia
---------
Dean 1st
Clark 3rd

South Carolina
---------
Dean 1st
Clark 2nd

North Carolina
---------
Dean 2nd
Clark 5th

Virginia
---------
Dean 1st
Clark 3rd

[Jack_Dawson]

15. You're right, in legitimate polls Clark is doing very well

[HFishbine]

24. Clark Doing Well In "Legitimate" Polls

Just disregard:

Zogby
Harris
CBS
ABC
Washington Post
Newsweek
CNN
USA Today
Gallup
NBC
Wall Street Journal
Quinnepac University
Associated Press
Mason-Dxon
St. Petersburg Times
Survey USA
Iowa State University
Research 2000
American Research Group

I'm sure Mr. Dawson has a link or two to the legitimate polls.

http://www.mason-dixon.com/news_text.cfm?news_id=174
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/12/05/State/Poll__Florida_Democra.shtml
http://www.zogby.com/
http://www.surveyusa.com/currentelectionpolls.html
http://research2000.us/

[INTELBYTES]

47. Yep, Dean is doing awesome in the primaries!

Too bad he will choke in the General Election. Time to wake up! The primaries is for us like minded folks. The GE is for the nation at large that will send him back to Vermont.

[Jack_Dawson]

60. Amen

:yourock:

[CTLawGuy]

70. but but but

all Dean's support in the south is republicans who want him to win :tinfoilhat:

[rogerashton]

18. Military is southern by courtesy

even if he grew up in Oregon like my father-in-law, the colonel.

[Blue_Roses]

56. let me get this straight

you think you have to have a drawl to come from the south? That is the biggest misconception people have of the south. Many do have a drawl, yes, but many don't. I have lived in the south all my life and don't feel that I have a strong drawl at all.

[bowens43]

7. so says a '31-year-old medical services salesman from Columbia'

Now there's a source that requires no validation. LOL! What next?

Too bad Reagan is in such bad shape, we could run him, he would beat bush.

[Rose Siding]

17. I'll go there for all future pearls of wisdom

The "'31-year-old medical services salesman from Columbia'" is my one stop shop for political trends and analysis.

[HFishbine]

10. Todd Lewis, 31 Year Old Republican Salesman: "Dean Can't Win"

And that's proof enough for some Clark supporters. The arguments get more convincing by the minute around here.

[liberalnurse]

12. I don't agree at all.

I think the South views Clark a failure as a military leader. He was relieved of duty under President Clinton and now is anti-war. I think the South has figured this part out easily.


Southern democrats are also aware and with good concern that he was not sure if he would run as a democrat until the last minute. Actually, we here at DU didn't even know if he would run on a democratic ticket.

http://www.recordsearchlight.com/news/national/past/20031010nat035.shtml

<snip>

Crossfire debate:

Clark — who voted for Republicans Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George H. Bush for the White House — labored to fend off the criticism from the early moments of the debate. "I would never have voted for war. The war was an unnecessary war and it's been a huge strategic mistake for the country," he said.

"I could still have hope in early 2001 that this administration would learn its lessons, as most administrations do," said the retired general, who attended a GOP fund-raiser that year.

I think the Southern democrat may want to back a long term and proven democrat.

[Jack_Dawson]

14. The Citadel Loves Clark

4-Star General - Military Failure. Interesting logic. Clark has been enthusiastically received all throughout the south - including The Citadel. Not many other Dems can pull off an appearance there, methinks.

[liberalnurse]

28. Well he was asked to resign.......

I heard he imploded. I haven't heard any other Generals back him. Whats the deal withthat? Even his life long, cover the other mans back kind of soldier has not backed him.


And he is against this war... now anyways.....What do you know that is different?

[Jack_Dawson]

42. Clark Retired with Honors

and it was Republican William Cohen wanting to put in his philandering fellow republican Joseph Ralston as general. This is all old news and I invite you to check out www.clarkmyths.com

As for the military, a ton of military men have come forward in defense of General Clark including General Anthony Zinni, Colonel David Hackworth and another General on Faux whose name escapes me. Anyway - don't believe everything you hear from the right-wing media.

[Scott Lee]

58. Then where oh where are big military endorsements for Clark?

Hmmm, I know they must have been here just a second ago....let me check under the couch.....nope, not there either.

Dang, now just where did all those big military endorsements go?

[Jack_Dawson]

62. Active military don't "Endorse"

But since you asked, General Anthony Zinni, Colonel David Hackworth and Colin Powell have all come out in support of Wesley Clark. That's just a few.

[liberalnurse]

76. I recall several who came out against him....

Storm'en Norman and another who was with him in Kosovo.....I can't recall the name at the moment but I remember the point.....a 4 Star General won't support him. My Air Force friends at WPAFB and Tyndall AFB all hate him. I support Dean so they don't rag me about him, Clark. In fact, they prefer Dean.

[Jack_Dawson]

78. Stormin' Norman never served with Clark

So any opinion he has is completely moot. Did your AF friends serve under Clark? If not then their opinion is also moot. Hugh Shelton had a drive-by smear early in the campaign which he still hasn't substantiated nor explained, so I toss that one in the garbage as well. You have to remember most General types are repukes, so take what they say w/ a grain of salt.

[jsw_81]

16. I hope Dean can win a few southern states

But even if he doesn't, all he needs to do is hold the Gore states and win one more. Then he'll be President Dean.

[Jack_Dawson]

19. The "just hold Gore states" argument is flawed

It's come to my attention that because of population shifts, a few southern states have added delegates. In other words, if the election plays out like last time, Bush wins hands-down (Florida aside)

[mouse7]

23. Not true.

There have been shifts, but there have been no diasporas.

A few delegates here or there, yep. Massive change of the entire national population map? Nope.

[jsw_81]

26. Wrong

Bush won't win "hands-down" if the election plays out like 2000, he'll just gain a handful of electoral votes. Maybe eight or ten at the most. That would still be an EXTREMELY close election, far closer than Kennedy/Nixon or Carter/Ford.

The fact of that matter is that we only need the Gore states plus one large state like Florida (which Gore won, but you know what I mean) or Ohio to win, or two or three smaller states like West Virginia, New Hampshire, or Nevada. Then Bush will get his one-way ticket back to Crawford, Texas.

[mouse7]

31. How about Texas and Wyoming ?

Would they do? ;)

[HFishbine]

53. If that happens

Say hello to Emperor Dean.

[rucky]

20. May they break from the union

The South stands in the way of progress. They're dragging us down with their regional bias.

[Hep]

21. Packers will win the superbowl by 44 points

You can count on DU for all of your clairvoyance needs!

[Jack_Dawson]

22. Because

The Rams will drop out?

[liberalnurse]

33. And the Titanic sunk.....

hundreds perished..... went down with the ship. They hit bottom and just stayed there with the fishies....I saw that movie....

[mouse7]

45. Will your heart go on though?

It can go on forever with YOUR OWN SPECIAL THEME FROM TITANIC RINGTONES for your Nokia cellphone!

http://www.nokia-ringtones.org.uk/titanic_theme/

[Hep]

36. The Packers will defeat the rams 222 - 7

Keep checking back to DU for more idiotic and pointless prognostications as well as the incessant repetition of same.

[HFishbine]

27. Whaaaa?

Carolina, by a field goal.

[Hep]

37. Damn

You're right. I should have picked the Panthers. Sorry.

[Le Taz Hot]

25. So, what are we up to now?

4,562 threads on how Dean can't win the south. Who's keeping track? :eyes:

But I must say, quoting a 31-year-old Republican as a legitimate source was -- revealing. Might I suggest the patrons down at Ernie's Bar next time? On a Friday night I bet you could get a quorum.

[jsw_81]

29. It's kind of funny

When I monitor the Freepers, I've noticed that they would NEVER in a million years quote a Democrat ("Bush sucks, Democrats say so"), yet here it's actually quite common for people to quote Republicans. I wonder why.

[Jack_Dawson]

64. The Freepers Have a Single Nominee

Go back to 1999 and you'll see a lot of infighting. It's all part of the process.

:boring:

[Cheswick2.0]

32. I love it when the republicans do this kind of thing

They should be careful what they wish for. But I am not really sure why you are choosing to do their dirty work for them here on this board.

[Iverson]

38. The Missouri Compromise: Too Liberal?

Sorry, but whenever I see threads like these, weird headlines float in the air in front of me.

[edzontar]

40. The last straw--I now will support any candidate

Who opposes Clark.

(except Bush, of course)

[Jack_Dawson]

44. Hmmm....Where have I heard that before?

Oh that's right - Edzontar already made that post during Christmas. We know you hate Clark and his supporters, it's been well-documented. It's all good. Happy Holidays! :hi:

[edzontar]

50. Actually, I do NOT hate Clark, I like him....

But I dislike the tactics used by his supporters on this board.

They have pissed me off, in fact....

If you look around, you will also see that I have harshly criticized posts attacking Clark on any number of occassions.

He has always been my second choice.

I was just experiencing a fit of pique after reading the one-billionth attack-Dean thread from a Clark supporter.

So tell ya what--I'll take my pissy statement back.. maybe i should just avoid these flamebait threads.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

55. Probably would be wise

if we all avoided them...of course that would mean we would need to swear off DU completely till after the nomination is sealed up wouldn't it? LOL

A little at a time I'm learning to take all these threads with a huge dose of salt...I try my best to comment without raging at the stupidity of it all. :nuke:

And I do my best to keep my most current mantra going in my mind..."Supporters are NOT the candidate, supporters are NOT the candidate..."

As much as we all dislike the flaming that takes place here from all sides we keep coming back like chocoholics to that big box of Valentine candy. :eyes:

Let's be honest...we all like the adrenalin rush we get from this stuff...even while we decry the horror of it all.

Peace :beer:

Edited to delete a "from" that made no sense.

[edzontar]

65. I suppose you are right...

After all, I DID come here this morning....

And there are some worse threads open right now--seen the "Muslims support Dean" thread with its "Saddam's choice" cartoon?

My vote for lowest blow of the year.

[Killarney]

41. How can anyone honestly say this without knowing who the VP would be?

Yeah, a Dean/Kerry ticket has a good chance of handing the South to Bush, but a Dean/Clark or Dean/Edwards or Dean/Graham ticket has a good chance in the south.

It's too soon to say any blanket statement like that.

[rucky]

46. Lloyd Bentsen?

Dixiecrats demand the top of the ticket for their precious vote.

[jsw_81]

49. Dean/Graham would be awesome

Wouldn't it be ironic if we end up winning Florida, the largest state in the south?

[Scott Lee]

61. You just answered your own question.

No one can say. But the desperate, far behind Clark campaign can sure flail around in desperation for something from which to make an issue. I'll hand them that.

[CMT]

51. Don't agree

I think Dean will run surprisingly well for a New Englander in the South. I'm not saying he will do as well as Bill Clinton but I do think he will do better than Al Gore. I think Dean's credentials as a budget balancing Governor from a rural state who has neutralized the gun issue will be highly effective. Also, I think if he chooses Bob Graham a folksy, deeply intelligent, southerner to join the ticket--we will have a very effective team not only in the south but all over the country.

[Scott Lee]

57. Dean leads Clark in the South by 3:1

Ouch.

[Jack_Dawson]

66. Push Polls are great, aren't they?

That poll has long since been discounted.

[HFishbine]

71. Fine

Show us one of those "legitmate" polls then.

[Jack_Dawson]

74. Newsweek

"Dean leads the Democratic pack with 26 percent nationwide, up two points from the previous poll. Retired Gen. Wesley Clark has risen to a clear second, with 15 percent."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3771203/

I'll concede Dean has a healthy lead, but it's not exactly "3:1"

[HFishbine]

77. I beleive the 3:1 ratio

Was in the south, not nationwide.

[Jack_Dawson]

79. Then it's even more discredited

Clark is winning in Oklahoma, statistically tied for first in Arizona, South Carolina and (I think) Georgia. In any case, it would be hard to be statistically tied for first in a number of states and also be losing 3:1, you have to admit.

[CTLawGuy]

72. Zogby does push polls for Dean?

NT

[Jack_Dawson]

75. Zogby has Al Sharpton finishing 2nd in SC

[Padraig18]

63. No one has a crystal ball that shows what will happen in November '04!

Neither that salesman, nor you, nor I. As for me, I have hope.

Dean in '04! :dem:

[edzontar]

67. Some seem to have magic 8-balls though....

I can't believe all the stupid doomsaying posts the Calrk people are posting these days.

They are beyond mockery.

[Padraig18]

68. I've decided to laugh at these posts from now on.

They're patently absurd, ab initio.

:hi:

[edzontar]

81. Indeed--posted by fools, for an audience of morons...

nt

[Jack_Dawson]

82. Actually...

I have a very high IQ, but I won't take it personally. I appreciate your thoughts and welcome the discourse.

[Fleshdancer]

69. Eeyore should be our new mascot

I think I can say this with atleast some sense of authority since I'm in the South and from the South...there are *gasp* Democrats down here. There are also a lot of people who don't vote. We also have a growing number of moderates who aren't happy with Bush right now. If our party would stop giving up on us, then maybe we would stop giving up on our party.

3,500 people came out to rally for Howard Dean in Austin, TX back when he was still considered a third tier candidate. We had 3,500 people show up in San Antonio during the Dean's summer tour and over 2,000 rallied in Dallas too. Everyday Texans have raised over $200,000 for Dean and 25,000 Texans are signed up with the campaign.

I'm thirsty for a leader who will lead this party out of this pathetic "why don't they like me?" sob fest. If Dean does what he says he'll do and speaks frankly to the voters down here, then he'll do well. If he has the full support of the Democratic party and a strong GOTV, then the worst thing we could do is underestimate him at a time when we all need to be ready to fight for him.

[Moderator]

83. Locking.......

This is inflammatory.


DU Moderator