If Harold Ford, Who Was Charming And Brilliant Lost in Tennessee, How can Obama Win Nationally?

[stravu9]

Harold was a Great Candidate and He was Crucified by race baiting ads that ran so even I who don't live in Tennessee saw them!
Not a slam just a question !

Harold DESERVED TO WIN AND DIDN'T!

[tekisui]

1. Obama doesn't need to win Tenn.

Or the South. Ohio and Iowa can do it.

[AndyTiedye]

9. That's What We Needed to Win Last Time Too

It always comes down to Ohio, doesn't it? :scared:

[tekisui]

25. There are other options.

We need to pick up 18 electoral votes. Ohio is good because its 20.

But, IA-7, VA-13, MT-3, WV-5, MO-11, ND-3, NE-5, NM-5 and CO-9. Any combo equaling 18+ takes it.

Each of those states put up new Dem Senators or Dem Governors in 2006. Ohio put up a Dem Sen. and Gov.

I am also optimistic with voter turnout this year. Record breaking for the Dems. In the Primaries, so far, nearly 2:1 over the pukes.

As the saying goes...

As goes Ohio, so goes the country.

[AndyTiedye]

70. Missouri? Montana!? Can I Have Some of What You Are Smoking?

As goes Ohio, so goes the country.

That's what I'm afraid of.

[tekisui]

73. They went Dem in 2006, just saying....

[AndyTiedye]

96. But Can You Really See Either of them Voting for Hillary or Obama?

[tekisui]

98. Honestly, probably not.

Maybe Missouri for either. Probably Montana for neither.

[styersc]

19. So now you've gone to Bringing the Country together to

cutting out the parts that will bring you to power?

Politics of change- hmmm.

[tekisui]

30. I want a Dem in the WH.

Whether it's Obama, Clinton or Edwards(1st choice). I am looking at the reality of it. To win, we don't NEED the South. I live in the South, but I recognize this.

I am trying to squash the meme of Obama or Clinton being un-electable because of the South.

[styersc]

42. This is how "Bringing the Country Together "Begins......

First the gays can cost you votes in the African American community so its' Screw the Fairies. The its' the southern states will bog you down, so fuck the hicks.

And Now, here we are, smack dab in the middle of the New Politics. How about hating Mexicans to attract more right wing votes? Are Jews good for you or bad? What do we do about those Muslims- not much of a voting block? Screw them too. Do we really need THAT MANY white votes?

[stravu9]

51. Yes, So it seems!

vote grubbing!

[tekisui]

72. ridiculous.

[tekisui]

67. I am not about exclusion.

I really think you misunderstand me.

The candidate for the Democratic Party should never pander to racists or bigots or homophobes for votes. The Democrats need to stand for equality for all people. No group should be discriminated against, for any reason. I defend the rights of ALL people.

I didn't say "fuck the hicks" or anything close. The reality is the Dems don't NEED the South to win, that is all I said.

I think they should use a 50-state strategy and respect the people of every part of the country. But, we don't have to count on Tenn. or any other Southern state to win.

[stravu9]

32. It will be a big uphill climb with no Southern states.

and you know Republican dirty tricks squad will be working overtime!

[Justitia]

2. Harold Ford was vastly out of touch w/the Democratic base.

And he took every opportunity to bash fellow Dems.

Good riddance to Harold Ford.

[ClericJohnPreston]

53. No wonder then

He is part of the Conservative DLC. Disgusting group of folk who want to mainstream Conservatism instead of Progressive issues.

That is why I'm pro-Edwards. Populism and a return to the core principles of the Democratic Party is not an option after 8 years of Dumbya.

[SharonAnn]

88. He was pretty conservative, so people voted for the real conservative, Lamar Alexander

Since his loss Harold has been busy doing "conservative" things, like working for Merrill Lynch (hardly a bastion of Democrats).

Good for him, but I don't think he represented the Democratic Party. He was one of the bluest of the Blue Dogs (conservative Democrats).

However, he did do a truly great thing when Rep. Jean Schmidt (R- Cincinnati, Nasty) gave the speech about "cut and run" he stormed the Well of the House and demanded she take it back. Of course, she didn't, but at least he didn't sit there and just take it.

[iamjoy]

3. I Worry About This Too

But, maybe Harold Ford failed to inspire progressives to go out and work for him. You know, he is a DLC candidate, and some might say Republican-Lite for his stances on marriage equality and reproductive freedom. Ford has been villified by many DUers. But, I do wonder how Obama will play with white southerners - even with an enthusiastic base.

[stravu9]

54. a Democrat is a Democrat ..

and it is , IMO naive to throw anybody out. we've lost too many lately and even if the elections were stole it should never have been so close that was possible.
the Republicans will stop at nothing ! They even tried the old "Willie Horton " routine on one of their own! What makes you think they will play nice now?

[iamjoy]

105. Hey, I'm With You

From what I've seen of Harold Ford, I kind of like the guy. No, he's not the most liberal Democrat out there, I disagree with many of his stances, but maybe he's the right Democrat for Tennessee. I'm just saying that when Democrats run to the middle, they risk losing the enthusiasm of the base. The base may still "hold their noses and vote for him" but they won't phone bank, canvass and persuade others to so. If the candidate doesn't pick up enough moderates on his (her) own, the campaign is lost.

As for "Willie Horton" - I have little sympathy for Huckabee on this one. The Republicans have played too dirty for too long - lie down with dogs, get up with fleas (pardon the cliche). Some things do cross the line, though: race baiting, smearing a veteran's war record, attacks on family, attacks on religion.

I don't expect them to play nice if Obama is our nominee, they will play the race card. But, I don't see that alone as a reason not to vote for Obama (I'm an Edwards supporter because I like Edwards better, not because of racial dynamics). My hope is that Obama will not be another Harold Ford because he has a very enthusiastic base.

[stravu9]

108. WE agree!

Thanks!

[JackORoses]

4. Harold is a DLCer

He's not even close to an Obama.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. You're saying he lost Tennessee

because he wasn't liberal enough?

[JackORoses]

33. no, I'm saying just because he is black doesn't mean he is anything like Obama

They are wholly different people.

[MonkeyFunk]

37. I agree they're different

I say so below. But I'm curious about your contention that his DLC connections had something to do with his loss. Do you have any evidence for that?

[JackORoses]

62. I was just differentiating him from Obama.

I have no evidence regarding how Ford's DLC membership affected his election.
But it certainly affects his policies and outlook.

[Alexander]

75. Many liberals stay home if no candidates in a race are liberal.

Or in the case of 2000, they vote for a third party.

I would rather Ford had won, but since he's DLC all the way, I'm not surprised he didn't get higher turnout.

[MonkeyFunk]

78. Then why is someone like Kucinich polling

at about 2%?

The notion that America is just clamoring for hard-core leftists is nonsense. I wish they were, but they're obviously not.

[SharonAnn]

90. People voted for the Real Conservative, Lamar Alexander.

[wyldwolf]

17. and Obama is like a DLCer...

[JackORoses]

35. and Hillary is a DLCer

I'll take Obama over Repuke-lite any day.

[wyldwolf]

69. ..and Obama is a Reagan -loving Repuke lite.

[JackORoses]

80. Saying Reagan changed the Nation's trajectory and loving him are 2 different things

but I didn't really expect you to comprehend that, Wylie.

However, it is a fact that the DLC represents the conservative wing of the Democratic Party.
And it is a fact that Hillary is a member.

You don't like that too much, do you?

[wyldwolf]

82. yet, Obama loooves him some Reagan. Hey, if you hate the DLC, why support Obama?

Policies are the same.

[JackORoses]

84. Obama is not DLC, though you wish he was

Then you could avoid having to explain Hillary's membership in the DINO Club.

You just hate the fact that Obama is more progressive than Hillary,
so you try to drag him down into the same shithole that she spends her days in.

[wyldwolf]

85. but he ripped off his policies from them. Hey, I have great idea! Let's compare them...

...one issue at a time.

[JackORoses]

93. ok, I'll start

Iraq War

- Obama against

- DLC & Hillary for

[wyldwolf]

94. ok...

As a part-time state legislator in a solid blue district, Obama gave an anti-war speech to impress a political consultant. He then took the speech down from his Senate campaign site, then voted exactly like Hillary on every Iraq war vote.

Go ahead, pick the next one, too.

[JackORoses]

99. He was anti-War from the get-go. This really eats at you, doesn't it?

Your misrepresentation of Obama's actions doesn't change the fact that Obama was right from the start and Hillary/DLC was very, very wrong.

*

Ethanol Mandate

- Obama for

- Hillary/DLC against

[wyldwolf]

101. he sure tried to hide it from 2003 - 2006. You must be a psychic!

The DLC loves ethanol:

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254273&kaid=116&subid=153

They just believe a mandate specifically targeting one biofuel limits innovation on other biofuels.

Hardly an earth shattering issue and one Obama voted for to pander to Iowa farmers.

Next?

[JackORoses]

103. It's not my job to educate you.

You said they were just alike.
I have provided two distinct differences in policy.

Try doing something for yourself.

[wyldwolf]

112. good thing, too, because you'd be grossly underqualified

[stravu9]

18. I Liked Him!

I'm not from Tennessee but You know what they did to him!
Is Obama immune to that sort of thing?

[MonkeyFunk]

5. Obama's a much better candidate than Ford

Ford's family has very mixed support in TN.

[SharonAnn]

91. Right, Ford's uncle, State Sen. Ford, was on trial for corruption at the time.

[David Zephyr]

7. And the similarity between Obama and Ford is.........race. Another dumb post.

Wow!

[stravu9]

21. that's the whole point !

you think the GOP will not use race baiting in this campaign. what kind of bizarre world do you live in ?

[David Zephyr]

27. You post this on the day we celebrate Dr. King's dream?

I hope you are proud of yourself.

Bookmarking.

[stravu9]

36. what better time to point out the dream is not yet fulfilled?

.

[David Zephyr]

45. Stop.

You did not create this thread to honor Dr. King.

Please just stop.

[stravu9]

47. just go away and your delegate sensibilities will not be hurt.

.

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. Obama is a more inspirational figure

For whatever reason, and people can debate it, I believe that is true, and I believe that galinizes support. Plus, all things considered, I think it is harder for a Democrat to win a State wide race in Tennessee than it is for a Democrat to win a national contest.

[David Zephyr]

34. What a thread to post at a progressive web site on a day we are celebrating Dr. King.

Here's another example of why Clinton has a serious problem, Tom.

It's not Republicans doing this.

Thanks for your post although it won't help.

[Tom Rinaldo]

65. It is an extremely poor taste thread, most especially to post today.

I won't distract from that reality by doing more than note that very poor taste threads on DU were once very disproportionately aimed at Hillary. I hate all of them.

I went through a period of being deeply disillusioned over how seemingly progressive Democratic activists can wallow in the mud of racism, sexism, homophobia and the rest just because it provide some opportunity to score points against a political opponent. I still am deeply troubled by it but now I am trying harder to fight back.

A discussion along the lines of is America ready to elect a Woman or a Black or a Hispanic or a Jew can be defended if pursued conscientiously in an honest and open spirit. It is however nothing less than a racial affront, intentional or unintentional as the case may be, to post an OP with this type of content on a day obviously devoted to remembering and celebrating Martin Luther King Jr. and the heroic efforts he made, at the cost of his own life, to beat back racism in America.

Barack Obama can be elected President of the United States. I have no doubt that we can make that happen.

[stravu9]

109. Easy Cupcake!

Don't look for harm where none is intended.
It is MOST appropriate on "A DAY LIKE THIS" to point out where things really stand.

[Skinner]

10. Harold Ford is no Barack Obama.

Yes, he deserved to win. But I gotta admit that I never found Harold Ford to be particularly charming.

[stravu9]

28. the point is , he was running well and GOP used race baiting to discredit his campaign , which

I understood had been running swimmingly until then!
Is Obama somehow immune to the tactics you KNOW they will try to pull?

[David Zephyr]

40. This is quite a thread for a progressive web site on the day we honor Dr King.

Thanks for your feigned "concern" about Barack Obama and the Democratic Party. Sigh.

[stravu9]

46. stop being so sanctimonious!

these are the facts of the real world we live in. unless you reside in an Ivory Tower you should be aware of that fact!

[auburngrad82]

107. Dude, one question

How did you get almost 500 posts in 9 days? Do you work?

[stravu9]

110. I've had the flu and a 3 day weekend .

I work among the people to whom these issues are life and death and feel pretty strongly about about making sure we get Edwards if we don't I'm gone.

[Cha]

11. Your logic is pre-k.

[cali]

12. Harold Ford is a future Lieberman type

he's a conservative dem who's constantly sucking up to pukes and he's about as DLC as they come. Anyone who thinks Ford is a great candidate must love the DLC. I was actually fine with his losing.

HE DID NOT DESERVE TO WIN.

Harold ford is emblematic of what's wrong with the dem party. He hates progressives and progressive ideas.

:puke:

[MonkeyFunk]

So you, too, think he lost

because he was too conservative for TN?

[cali]

50. Where did I say that? I was simply expressing what I think of Ford

i actually think he lost for a complex list of reasons- but I'm not convinced that racism figured in. No, I certainly don't think he's too conservative for TN. I do think his uncles politial travails and corruption which were prominently in the news were a detriment, also his smarmy snottiness and playboy image. And he did some dumb stuff.

[MonkeyFunk]

52. Well

the question was how could Obama win if Ford lost in TN?

I said long before you that his family's history was a big factor. You brought up the DLC, which I think had nothing to do with his loss there. I just think the DLC thing is this year's "Skull & Bones" - an overplayed, over-hyped nothing. It's a friggin' think-tank, not a world-controlling cabal.

[cali]

68. It's a think tank that's shaped a lot of democratic thinking over the

years. I don't think it's evil or neocon this or that, but I do believe that it's had more than it's share of influence on the party and I don't particularly want to see it ascendant again.

[John Q. Citizen]

55. Yep. It's why the Dems were out of power so long, and not just in Tennesse.

They kept trying to out Repo the Repos. It doesn't work, or haven't you been paying attention?

[MonkeyFunk]

59. I disagree

Ford didn't try to out-repo the repos, as you say. He was a centrist Democrat. He didn't lose because he was a centrist.

I don't get the idea that far-leftists would do better in the red states than moderate Democrats.

[PaDem]

13. Harold Ford's campaign was a joke if you ask me..........

in the week or two leading up to the election, his main point of emphasis was that he liked women and football. Way to play to the lowest common denominator there Harold. Harold Ford lost because he didn't stand for anything substanitive, he was in fact the status quo and his opponent represented something new in the sense that he was a DC outsider. Barack Obama should learn from Harold Ford's experience in Tennessee, though at this juncture, it's unclear whether or not he has.

[ellacott]

22. Ford also lied about being a lawyer

He failed his bar exam but still told people he was a lawyer. He also confronted/ambushed his opponent on the campaign trail. This was seen as being in very bad taste.

Ford came close but he made a series of errors that contributed to his loss.

[Kucinich4America]

14. Harold Ford is a Republican who claims to be a "democrat" (aka a DLC'er)

While the race baiting ads were horrible, the fact is that there was already a Republican running for the job, so the voters chose that Republican. Don't cry for Ford. He got his cushy job as the chair of the Delusional Lying Cowards. I don't hear him complaining.

[Barack_America]

15. Tennessee is not the United States, nor is the Northeast, for that matter....n/t

[Egnever]

16. LOL Harold Ford charming and brilliant?

That dude was my worst nightmare. I prayed he would lose. He deserved everything he got Or perhaps you forgot all his cozying up to the right wing. I hope i never see or hear from Harold Ford again and the fact that Hillary's camp is floating him as a replacement for howard dean makes me want to puke and is a large reason of why I wont vote for her.

[Justitia]

24. Replacement for Howard Dean??? Please, oh please, oh please let that just be a rumor!

God, I'd rather have Terry McAwful back over Harold Ford!

Of course, my clear preference is to keep the Good Doctor right where he is.

[Egnever]

31. it was floated by Carvile a while back

Some big name Democrats want to oust DNC Chairman Howard Dean, arguing that his stubborn commitment to the 50-state strategy and his stinginess with funds for House races cost the Democrats several pickup opportunities.

The candidate being floated to replace Dean? Harold Ford.

Says James Carville, one of the anti-Deaniacs, "Suppose Harold Ford became chairman of the DNC? How much more money do you think we could raise? Just think of the difference it could make in one day. Now probably Harold Ford wants to stay in Tennessee. I just appointed myself his campaign manager."

[Justitia]

44. I remember that episode. Let's hope there has been no such sentiment since then. - eom

[Independent_Patriot]

63. Let's not forget Begala.

During the time most Democrats were downplaying the much-media ballyhooed “Dean scream” and calling it for what it truly was, (a candidate reveling in the moment) - There was Begala on CNN, reliable as ever, decrying it as “unpresidential” and that he was truly appalled by it.

Begala would go on to poo-poo Dean’s winning “50 state strategy” every chance he got on CNN's Crossfire and its current truncated form Strategy Session.

[Me.]

60. Bingo

His pandering to the right during that campaign was loathsome and got him nowhere. Anti-choice, anti-gay talking points not to mention 10 commandment cards. Even they saw how phony he was.

[no name no slogan]

20. USA > Tennessee

nt

[dajoki]

23. Gore didn't even win his home state n/t

[jenmito]

26. HE was running in TN, and he was able to be painted as a "playboy" while Obama is a

family man running nationally. Of course Ford was SMEARED as being a playboy, but he was painted as being a threat to white men because he could take away "their" women. Dirty politics, but in TN, it worked.

[Inuca]

57. Not to mention that

in spite of all his faults he came pretty damn close to winning. The OP is nothing but silly and somewhat offensive flame bait.

[IndianaGreen]

29. Harold Ford was a DLC darling that supported Joe Lieberman after Joe lost the primary

Ford is a war hawk, like the rest of the DLC scum!

No wonder Clintonista Carville pushed for Ford to replace Dean as DNC Chair. Despite my own disagreements with what Dean did regarding Florida and Michigan, there is no way I would take Ford's side against Dean.

[THUNDER HANDS]

38. Harold Ford is what everyone here accuses Obama of being

[robbedvoter]

74. Exactly! They are alike. And will fare alike for this reason, not their color.

[THUNDER HANDS]

76. well, that really wasn't what I was saying

I'm saying the perception of him here is the reality of what Ford was.

But the reality of Obama is quite different.

[elizm]

39. Harold Ford is no Barack Obama. nt

[OzarkDem]

41. The same reason neither Clinton nor Obama will win

The pendulum has swung, and DLC canidates (like Harold Ford) don't do well anymore.

The main tenet of DLC philosophy is that Dems should run as close to Republicans as possible on issues and message. That works great when Republicans are popular, but they're not so popular anymore.

That's why Ford didn't win - his GOP-lite message didn't resonate with voters who were worried about their jobs and keeping their homes. According to Harry Truman - give the voters a choice between a real Republican and a fake one and they'll pick the real one every time. IOW it doesn't pay for a Dem to act like a Republican.

The same thing will happen with either Obama or Clinton. GOP lite talking points and triangulating aren't going to sell in 2008. Voters are fed up with Bush and if they vote for a Dem they want it to be one who sounds like a Dem.

[endarkenment]

43. Ford was a Great Candidate? yuck. Not.

"Harold DESERVED TO WIN AND DIDN'T!"

whatever. The south is going to vote rethuglian.

[stravu9]

49. He was a Democratic Candidate who was Marketable in the South

and a chance to put a Democratic butt in a senate seat!

[endarkenment]

64. Obviously he wasn't marketable in the South.

For most of the south, no Democrats are. They thought because Ford was a rightwing fucktard and black that he was marketable. They were wrong. Forget the south. Until the suburban racist fundaloon whitefolks all lose their jobs they are going to vote rethuglican. It is the solid south all over again, only the racists have switched parties.

[dugggy]

48. Harold Ford was a centrist, and blacks don't vote for centrists

Obama is more liberal, and blacks are flocking to him
after they saw that even whites will vote for him such as in Iowa.

[ClericJohnPreston]

56. Wha, wha, WHAT!!!

Obama is more liberal than Ford. That is a small distinction, indeed.

You can't find a more Conservative candidate than Obama other than DLC shill Hillary.

Obama courts Republicans and Conservatives, by bashing core Democratic principles and icons. Sorry, but that strategy isn't winning him any friends of the left!

[stravu9]

58. What could be MORE CENTRIST

than invoking the name of Ronald Reagan as a role model?

[dugggy]

87. Obama is not backing Reagan's policies en masse...

he was simply stating the fact that Reagan CHANGED THE NATION.
Obama also wants to change the nation, not necessarily in the
direction Reagan did.

[Zynx]

79. Harold Ford got 95% of the black vote.

How much more could he have possibly gotten?

[dugggy]

86. I did not know it was that high..but how about turnout?

If you get 100% of a small turnout, it is no better than 80% of a large one.

[Zynx]

100. Evidence was that it was pretty high.

In the previous midterm there were 238,000 voters in Shelby County(Memphis). In the 2006 midterm there were 288,000. The county as a whole voted 63% for Ford versus 49% in the previous election.

[FlyingSquirrel]

61. Barack.......... Call me.

No, I can't see that ad working nationwide.

[robbedvoter]

81. Liberals defended him on that. then he dissed us publicly - right before the election

I forgot the statement - but it probably turned off the ones who stood by him on that.

[stray cat]

66. Some people will never vote for a woman or a black or a mormon

[robbedvoter]

71. Ford was too DLC (as in "reagan is great) Other, more progressive dems won

in that election. It wasn't racism. it was contempt for liberals (who defended him after ugly ads)

[wyldwolf]

83. and other DLCers and centrists won.

[GalleryGod]

77. Better record. Not DLC. Better orator. I don't know...

:hippie:

[Windex]

89. If Harold Ford, Who Was Charming And Brilliant Lost in Tennessee, How can Obama Win Nationally?

The Fords are politically corrupt. Obama represents a much needed change for the black youths here. Obama needs to prove he is a Christian and a man of honor and integrity. He can definately carry Tennessee. Blacks and whites here wanted positive role models.

[NashVegas]

92. You Cannot Compare the Two

Two or more members of Ford's well-known family in state politics were mired in scandal. John, of which there was little doubt, and Ophelia, who seemed (and still seems) to have a substance abuse problem.

In addition, the simple fact of Ford's family allowed his detractors to rail against "the Ford Machine," always a winner in this day and age.

[dbackjon]

95. obama and ford are nothing alike

As much as I slam obama over his homophobia, he is 100x the candidate that Ford was.

Ford was, well, scum. The whole family is corrupt. You think that Clinton has a name problem with some people - it is mild to the loathing that many in TN feel towards the Ford Family.

Harold Ford REFUSED to endorse the Democratic nominee for his seat, because his cousin was running as an independent.

I voted Ford, because Corker is an assholex10 but I know many Democrats who just didn't vote, and it had NOTHING to do with his race.

[Cha]

97. I personally don't think much

of Harold Ford..his dlc crap stinks.

[LanternWaste]

102. Different elections...

Different elections. Different voters. Different issues. Different times. Different perspectives. Different... well, you get it.

[TeamJordan23]

104. I'm tired of fellow Dems always playing the fear card. nm

[surfermaw]

106. You got it , he can't that is what older americans know!

[stravu9]

113. You Don't Have to be "older to know"...

that the Republican slime machine is gearing up everything they can to win.
I register people to vote everyday and I will tell you A LOT of low income people will not or cannot register, or they are so transitory, many having no real home or getting evicted regularly that they are in a different precinct by election time.
Or they are afraid some one will call them for jury duty or they are a felon and are not allowed to in many states.

I did not study up on Harold Ford and had , frankly not heard the term DLRer until a week ago but I do know he was handsome, and when I saw him he seemed very well spoken and if he was as "Republican" as they are painting him here why would the right wing care so much if he won?
And they ruined him and I think it was HORRIBLE and I worry what will happen to the Obama campaign.
People here don't seem fond of civilized discourse unless you agree with whatever they believe!
Thank you so much for not shouting me down and calling me names surfermaw!

[Honeycombe8]

115. TN is a red state that votes GOP in presidential races. nt

[catgirl]

111. Um, they're two different people?

Geraldine lost too, so does that mean Hillary shouldn't have run?

[Honeycombe8]

114. Is that like saying, "All Af. Americans are the same"? Come on, now.

That was a different race, in a different year, for a different office, between two different people.

How you could possibly link that one race and extrapolate those results to a national race two years later involving different people?

YOU may have thought Ford deserved to win. But apparently the voters of his state thought otherwise....and as I recall, they BARELY thought otherwise. As I recall, it was VERY close. AND Ford made that big gaff...confronting his opponent in a confrontational way when the opponent was walking to his press conference. It didn't look very senatorial.

Tennessee is a red state. It will probably vote for the GOP candidate, whoever that is. It really makes no difference who the Dem. candidate is....EXCEPT THAT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF THE CANDIDATE CAN GET INDEPENDENT VOTERS. Hillary Clinton cannot do that. Obama can.