Ok GD, hand my ass to me. See if I give a shit.

[Jamastiene]

I know I'm right on this much.

Y'all do know that if we VOTE for the same old song and dance that we've had for the past seven years now, we will GET more of the same old song and dance that has made us miserable for the last seven years? You know that, right? You get what you pay for and you get what you vote for.

Unlike rats pushing a lever, we Democrats seem to be incapable of learning from our past mistakes or at least we appear mighty damn slow at learning from them. If the rat pushes the lever and gets shocked enough times, they don't push that lever again after realizing that it's going to shock them.


But, but...
"We don't want to appear 'too far to the left' or we won't win the GE." I keep hearing that hogwash over and over again. Good little MSM robots do just what the MSM wants you to do. Brilliant strategy! NOT.

Here's why:
We had the same mentality going into 2004 and look what that got us. :shrug: The most UN-RE-ELECTABLE president in the history of this country (Bush, in case I need to remind anyone) got RE-ELECTED. That seemingly brilliant strategy didn't work, did it? So, why are so many of us trying to use it again? Oh, MSM tells us to use it again, so we must comply like the simple minded fools they take us for. Brilliant.

Do I need to remind anyone this?
MSM has been telling us how wonderful Bush and his cronies are for the last 8 years. Yes, I'm counting the year before the 2000 election when Al Gore was being slaughtered by the MSM.

Now, they are telling us Obama and Hillary are the only viable candidates we have. They won't let Dennis Kucinich debate and they have already written off John Edwards. So, we have no choice but to do what they say and choose between generic DINO #1 and generic DINO #2, right?

Wrong.
Those of you who have early primaries have the power to work together and change all of this bullshit. You have the power to prove to the MSM we are no simple minded fools. Even if you don't prove it to the MSM, you can prove it to yourselves, can't you? Or are you incapable of pulling your heads out of your collective asses and working together to give those of us with late primaries (November) a chance to vote for the candidate we would like the opportunity to vote for?

Have you got it in you? Are you game? Or are you just going to roll over like DINO #1 and DINO #2 because it's the easy way of doing things?

Those are my questions. Fire away!
(Don't forget to mimic every single MSM and Faux talking head talking point while you are at it, because I know I can count on many of you to do just that.)

[spanone]

1. the ONLY way to vote for the OLD song and dance is to vote republican

[Kittycat]

3. Or Clinton

I'm not interested in legacies or scores to settle. I need a president that believes in transparency, "truthiness", and willing to convince others outside of the democratic party that our ideals are worthwhile, and beneficial to all of us and our future.

[Tyler Durden]

16. You do know that "truthiness" is a satirical term, don't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness

(snip)
Truthiness is a word that U.S. television comedian Stephen Colbert popularized in 2005 as a satirical term to describe things that a person claims to know intuitively or "from the gut" without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts.
(snip)
Colbert came up with the word truthiness just moments before taping the premiere episode of The Colbert Report on October 17, 2005, after deciding that the originally scripted word—"truth"—was not ridiculous enough. "We're not talking about truth, we're talking about something that seems like truth—the truth we want to exist," he explained.
(snip)

In other words, it is a fake word he came up with for a SATIRICAL COMEDY MONOLOGUE, to indicate concepts that are "...something that seems like truth..."

To quote Stephen Colbert when he was speaking out of character and as a REAL PERSON:

"Truthiness is 'What I say is right, and anyone else says could possibly be true.' It's not only that I feel it to be true, but that I feel it to be true. There's not only an emotional quality, but there's a selfish quality."

When you use that word to describe your candidate, you make him look ridiculous.

[Kittycat]

17. Yes, have a little humor.

[HughMoran]

29. .

:wtf:

[Tyler Durden]

31. I'm not amused.

Haven't we had enough leaders who think what THEY believe "...in their gut..." is the ULTIMATE TRUTH?

I have, if you haven't.

[CyberPieHole]

53. Actually, Obama the Preacher~Man is a lot more like George W...

another panderer who wraps himself in scripture.

[fenriswolf]

5. yeah except the dnc learned how to be back up dancers

to the repubs so now im gonna go tango out on the dancefloor with someone whos got some new moves.

[flvegan]

2. Oooh...

:popcorn:

Now I'm ready...

[Jamastiene]

4. ...

Well, damn, give me some too. I'm going to need plenty of it along with plenty to drink while I wait for all the vitriol from both the Obama camp AND the Hillary camp to come at me.

[TahitiNut]

6. Move over.

:popcorn:

[Xipe Totec]

7. I think your irony alarm is malfunctioning

Speaking of rats pushing the lever and getting shocked enough times...

:evilgrin:

[Jamastiene]

22. ...

I'm right.

:evilgrin:

[Xipe Totec]

51. This may come as a shock to you...

but I think you are projecting. :P

[OneGrassRoot]

8. To me, what you wrote is a no-brainer. I agree...

:shrug:

And I've been wanting to say this today: For Obama and Clinton supporters, even though your candidates get media coverage, the media obviously tries to manipulate the story being told.

THAT is another reason to revolt against the MSM and not allow them to dictate how this plays out.

Like I said, to me this is obvious, and I strongly encourage everyone to vote for who they WANT to see in the White House, not who they are being told is most electable. This is the PRIMARIES, and even though there are aspects to our primary system that are very frustrating, don't hand over any more of your power willingly.

[Jamastiene]

11. Exactly.

That's a big reason why I said what I said in the OP. I cannot understand why MSM is so in control of our party's minds. It's mind control to make people vote how they are "told" to vote. We will get what we vote for.

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. ...

:thumbsup:

[TwilightZone]

9. Kerry is one of the most liberal members of the Senate.

What was your point again?

[Jamastiene]

14. Have you forgotten his "hunting trip?"

He tried to pander to the right, much like Obama is doing now. It makes us look weak, like we need the approval of the right wing. That's my point there.

[TwilightZone]

20. Sounds like Michelle Malkin.

If you think that the hunting trip was more important than his Senate record, we can just agree to disagree now and save us both some time.

[Jamastiene]

23. Actually, I voted for him, but he did pander to the right by

doing that photo op. At the time, I overlooked it as the nasty things we have to do to get votes. I had no problem with his voting record, but in hindsight, he should not have done the photo op. When he didn't win, I learned it didn't work. It made him a laughing stock among voters who were already going to vote Republican anyway and turned a few progressive voters off entirely. He should not have done that.

So, if it didn't work then, why does anyone think it's going to work now?

[TwilightZone]

32. So, you think he didn't win simply because of the photo-op?

I'm sure the swift-boating had nothing to do with it.

I'm sure that the media's constant badgering about minutiae had nothing to do with it.

Or the media's silly obsession with his spouse (hmm...I sense a pattern.)

Yep, must have been the hunting photo-op. Key to the election.

If "a few progressives" were dumb enough to let that one photo-op sway their votes, they're not really progressives.

[hfojvt]

50. the Senate is not very liberal

does being more liberal than Herb Kohl, Joe Lieberman, Diane Feinstein, and Thomas Daschle really make a person a leftwinger?

[eridani]

54. True. But he ran a wussy, cautious campaign

I find it infuriating that a Senator who had the courage to vote against DOMA when he was up for re-election would choose, while campaigning in Cinncinnati, to appear on stage with the only African American ministers in town who were NOT part of the Fairness Coalition, a group working to repeal a nasty anti-gay ordinance which WON in conservative Cinncinnati with 65% of the vote. Shades of Obama 2008.

[NNN0LHI]

10. OK here it is

I have learned in my 52 years that the worst of the worst Dem is better than the best of the best Repig. I cannot imagine Dems using the decision to go to war as a political tool like the Repigs did on the lead up to the Iraq invasion. Too many Dems would have not allowed that to happen.

There is no way the Dems in Congress would have stuck together like the Repigs have done to keep this odious occupation going on in Iraq. Wouldn't have happened. A group of Dems would have broke from their leadership in the same situation and joined the Repigs. For the good of the country. Repigs won't do that. Not even the best Repigs. They are thick as thieves. They would never do that.

There is your difference.

Don

[Jamastiene]

15. So, it's a good thing that Dems never get along or agree

at least long enough to accomplish a goal of our own? Is that what you are saying?

[NNN0LHI]

25. I wasn't talking about the good things in my post

The Dems can get along and do good things like create Social Security with no problem.

But they would never march in lockstep as some Dem president used going to war for political gain like the Bush and the Repigs did.

Thats what I am saying. Hope it cleared that up?

Don

[Jamastiene]

30. That's true about Social Security, but the polical

landscape was different back then. Corporate greed and power had not taken over both of our political parties at that time. It had started to, but it had not completely taken over yet. We need real new strategies for this very real problem we are facing today. I'm afraid we are just not going to get that if we keep listening to who they tell us "has a chance" in this upcoming election. That was my whole point.

[Webster Green]

13. I always vote for Dennis..

Feb. 5th will be the second time he gets my vote!:patriot:

[Jamastiene]

21. Thank you for thinking for yourself.

:patriot:

[BlackVelvet04]

18. Actually your post about the same old song and dance

IS the same old song and dance.

Dennis Kucinich is out of the race....you might try counseling to help you get over it.

Oh, and the accusation of DINO is getting old, too.

[Jamastiene]

19. Actually, it's the first time anyone has pointed any of it out

since 2004 from what I have seen. It still applies and we'll still lose by your logic there.

[BlackVelvet04]

33. the first? Where have you been?

I've only seen it about a thousand times in the last month or so, maybe not from you but it certainly is a recurring theme here.

Oh, the whole MSM and FAUX news thing is getting old, too.

Any candidate that couldn't find a way to push themselves to the forefront probably isn't the best candidate for running the country in a time of deep economic crisis, war, and a terrible world image. I say that as someone who has supported John Edwards.

I saw the handwriting on the wall when Kerry ran in 2000 and I made it known then that I thought Hillary Clinton would be the next Democratic nominee and the next president of the United States. I stand by that comment.

[Tyler Durden]

27. You're the kind of person I'm looking forward to putting to work...

...plowing, and weeding the fields and greenhouses at the commune.

That is, if, after the massive social and economic CRASH that is inevitably coming, you make it to our gates in one piece, AND we decide we have enough surplus to let you in.

You see, attitudes like yours made the disaster inevitable.

[BlackVelvet04]

35. LOL......

oh yes, the sky is falling. It's been falling here on D.U. for a long time.

You go right ahead with your commune and good luck. I bet you bought supplies for the Y2K disaster, too, eh?

[TwilightZone]

38. Sometimes...

this place just cracks me up.

[BlackVelvet04]

39. Now that's something

I can agree with. :D

[Tyler Durden]

55. I hope you and your source of support are Depression Proof.

I made it through the 30% unemployment of 1977/78. I sense another kid who never was homeless, never ate at a MISSION, Never spent 18 months without a job.

Keep it up. When you stop at the gate, looking for a handout, I probably will give you something. I've always been a sucker that way.

[Tyler Durden]

24. I agree with you so very much...but I'm just as certain that it's too late.

I wish we as a nation could get behind REALITY and do the things that MUST BE DONE, like:

END THE FUCKING WAR RIGHT NOW...
Enact real single payer non-profit health care...
Support real jobs training with real living wages...
END phony "Free Trade," or make it "REAL Free Trade" by insisting on not buying from slave labor countries...

We could go on and on, and all of it could be done if we would just:

STOP letting the rich of this country have an IRS free ride on the taxes of the middle class and poor...
STOP letting corporations have the RIGHTS of PEOPLE which they most certainly are NOT...

I could keep going here too.

But we won't do it. The crash will come, and I hope the mass death it causes PLEASES the rich power elite, IF WE LET THEM LIVE THROUGH IT.

[Jamastiene]

26. I'm afraid it is too late as well.

I can't believe that we still have to even discuss all the reason why we should not ever trust the right wingers again. It never gets what we have needed in this country for so many years. The very things you listed are the things we will never have with either of the two "frontrunner's" in this race, sadly.

You are right. It is probably too late.

[Tyler Durden]

28. We're making our plans...

If we make it, others will too and we'll find ways to get the word out.

It won't be easy, but it won't be impossible.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

34. I'm with you

Kucinich has my vote--and my husband's vote. Don't want a choice of cancer or polio in the GE.

[catmandu57]

37. I'm goddamned sick of holding my nose when I vote

I'm getting goddamned sick of being taken for granted and then ignored as well. So many people have just given up in this country, they don't take part in democracy because nobody speaks to them. In my opinion we need to go further to the left, fuck the middle, like hightower said "The only thing in the middle of the road is white lines and dead animals".
There has to be some way of waking people up, when the American people are roused it's fucking fierce to watch, we need rousing up now, we need to take our country back.
I'm a goddamned bomb thrower, and it's high fucking time to throw a few.

[BlackVelvet04]

40. Didn't george bush run as a centrist?

Did he act as a centrist?

[TwilightZone]

41. Yes, compassionate conservatism and all that. You would have thought he was a moderate.

He was, of course, following the old rule. Run in the middle, govern however you want.

[BlackVelvet04]

49. Bingo.....

the Dem candidates have to run as centrists. They don't have to govern as centrists.

[Jamastiene]

58. Well, they don't have to run as right wing or

govern so right of center either. They could go back to what the party really stands for and quit pandering to the right. The right wing is just about washed up and the country is fed up with it. Why pick a losing strategy now when it might have worked 8 years ago, but now, it's not what the country wants. The few in this country who bother to vote, vote based on prejudices right now. More and more of the people who would like to be able to vote liberal cannot because we have not been given the option. That's a real problem that is not being addressed at all. It's all more bickering instead of simply talking about the fact that we, the liberals/progressives, are out here and have no say at all any more.

Are we just supposed to give up voting altogether and let "centrists" keep the country down the same wrong path we have been going down for so long now? That makes no sense. If everybody is basically happy with how things are going, should we just crown George Bush king and do away with voting and let him continue down this path? No, because everybody is not happy with same old same old. Many of us out here want real change and a real return to Democratic stances on the issues.

[LanternWaste]

42. Well, if nothing else...

"I know I'm right on this much."

Well, if nothing else, I'm sure you think your right on that much.

But since I'm voting for the Democratic candidate, I don't think I'll be getting the same song and dance routines...

[warren pease]

43. But you reckon without the damn voting machines...

Gore won in 2000 and was ousted by a bloodless coup. Kerry won in 2004 and his victory was nullified by, among other GOP crimes, the incredible missing ballots and disenfranchised black (read: Democratic) voters in Ohio.

I'm afraid you can vote til the cows come home and you'll just end up with a sore hand. I'll vote, of course, because there's a remote possibility that Oregon's paper ballots are slightly less corruptible than electronic voting, although even here votes are counted with optical scanners. And there's the other remote possibility that the anti-GOP backlash will be so enormous that the election won't be close enough to steal.

But that exact thing happened in 2006, with multiple reports estimating that Democrats started out more than 4 million votes in the hole nationwide before the first ballot was even turned in. There were apparently enough outraged voters to overcome that deficit and then some. And then, given the mandate to end the Iraq fiasco and rein in the criminal Bush administration, what do the Dems do with their new majority? Not a goddamn thing, thereby pissing off the very people who put them in office.

So they may have screwed up their own prospects without any help from the fixers. But if not, I have plenty of faith in the combined corruption and manipulative power of the GOP, its corporate paymasters and the hideous US mass media to learn from that experience and make damn sure it doesn't repeat.

Meanwhile, I'm voting for Kucinich in the primaries and, if I damn well feel like, I'll write him in this November. My nose is broken in three places from holding it tightly each election cycle. I think I'll give it a rest this time.


wp

[NMMNG]

44. K&E my friend

Dennis is unelectable. He didn't do ABC and XYZ before the debates so he's not qualified. And he sees UFOs. He also looks like an elf. So vote Hillbama! :P

[Yael]

45. Cheers!

Well stated. VERY well stated!

:toast:

[Jamastiene]

52. Thank you.

I'm just so glad I am not the only one who sees this.

:toast:

[2rth2pwr]

46. What's the fascination with butts and potty humor?

no, really.

[Norwood]

47. I absolutely agree

I am sick and tired of choosing between bad and worse.

[Jamastiene]

57. We will continue to get bad and worse

as our choices until people start listening too.

[SaveElmer]

48. Kucinich was a poor excuse for a Mayor...and is a poor Congressman...

That is why he is losing...

[OzarkDem]

59. A poor Congressman? You must be kidding

He's a great Congressman, probably the best the OH 10th has ever had. And lets not forget how he has led the fight in Congress to end the Iraq War, repeal the Patriot Act and begin impeachment hearings for Cheney and Bush.

A blanket statement such as yours needs some evidence.

[cali]

56. Talk about a shallow unoriginal piece of "analysis"

what a bore. And shove your idiotic and pathetic attempt at shutting up anyone who takes issue with your lame shit, by labeling any dissent as MSM talking points. And you know where to shove it.

Frankly, you proved yourself the dimwit with this OP, and oh, I don't have TV and don't tune it to the MSM like you obviously do.