Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Obama caught lying about Clinton and NAFTA

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:12 AM
Original message
Obama caught lying about Clinton and NAFTA
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/305/
"I know that Hillary on occasion has said -- just last year said this (NAFTA) was a boon to the economy."
Barack Obama on Monday, January 21st, 2008 in a debate in Myrtle Beach, S.C.

No evidence she said that

Trying to depict Hillary Clinton as a flip-flopper on trade, Barack Obama claimed the New York senator considered the North American Free Trade Agreement a plus for the economy, even though she’s recently criticized the pact on the campaign trail.
"I know that Hillary on occasion has said -- just last year said this (NAFTA) was a boon to the economy," Obama said during a Jan. 21, 2008, debate in Myrtle Beach, S.C. "I think it has been devastating, because our trade agreements did not have labor standards and environmental standards that would assure that workers in the U.S. were getting a square deal."
Obama’s charge is designed to stoke suspicions among liberals and labor leaders that Clinton is in the thrall of big business Democrats who served in her husband’s administration, such as former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, chairman of Citigroup Inc., and ex-Deputy Treasury Secretary Roger Altman, her top economic adviser.


In June 2007, she said NAFTA had some positive effects “but unfortunately it had a lot of downside.” And at a debate in December 2007, she announced her intention to review and reform NAFTA if she were elected.
Obama implies Clinton views NAFTA as an unqualified success, but more importantly, he attributes words to her that only appear in a newspaper summary of the issues. We judge his statement to be False.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
gaiilonfong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:14 AM
Original message
Give it up
She will NEVER pick the stumbler Bill Richardson a VP slot, no matter how much you spin for her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
12. the Truth sure does bother you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
desi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. It's just the Obama Hype
confused for "Hope." Well I hope they stop the lies, innuendo and hateful rhetoric.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gaiilonfong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Can't wait to see that NASTY Clinton lose
Whether the primary or the general...FINALLY the end of those lousy triangulating, Democratic Party destroyer, CLINTONS
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cloudythescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. I wouldn't be so sure of that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
29. As soon as you give it up.
White guy, or Gay Latino?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
30. And now it's time to play ...
WHITE GUY OR GAY LATINO!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. BFD n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. "No evidence she said that" Lying is no 'bfd' to ObamaNation?
Most Democrats knew that. But thanks for the confimation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ursi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Clinton caught making money off of deals with trucking company
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/memo2.pdf

NAFTA works for the Clintons and Ron Burkle!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. I wish the MSM would cover his distortions more.
He is getting away with BS just like Bush did against Gore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
desi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Some of them are finally doing so.
The Obama camp should know by now that the talking heads resent being lied to just as much as the general public. They can lie to the general public and move on to the next venue, much like the snake-oil salesmen, BUT the talking heads have the means to reach the masses and correct the bogus claims.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. She shouldn't be deciding to "review" it... she ought to know what
she wants to change or if she wants to start over.. Its been around long enough.. I'd say its not big on her agenda to change NAFTA... she is the corp. candidate.. but Obama isn't too far behind her on status quo...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
desi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. Caught lying AGAIN?
It appears that it can not be determined which Obama will show up to the dance on any given day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4167042
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. He's consistant in that regard, at least.
"Vote for Me! And Hope I'll Change!" :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. Hillary never says anything unqualifiedly. Things are always good and bad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. Check out Hillary The Triangulator laughing about NAFTA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBypp2hqxaQ

Funny! Ha f$*king ha ha...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. The Truth is she was laughing at Ross Perot - but you care what's true, do you?
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 09:30 AM by MethuenProgressive
ObamaNation - a truth-free state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
desi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. You either have to give them credit for trying to fudge the truth.
Or you have to pity them for being so gullible and full of "hope." Oh the audacity of hype.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Truth is painful to many.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
14. wellllllll.....
"1996: In Brownsville, TX, Clinton Said NAFTA Would Lead To An Economic Improvement In Border Regions. On a trip to Brownsville, Texas, Clinton “touted the president’s support for the North American Free Trade Agreement, saying it would reap widespread benefits in the region.”


I got this from a thread I started yesterday for facts of Obama distoring Clinton's record. Someone directed me to Hillary's fact page, so i went there and debunked all the facts relating to alleged Obama distortions.

the one above relates to NAFTA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cloudythescribbler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. The "facts" presented by MP do NOT contradict Obama's statement ...
What he probably MEANT to say was that Obama was UNFAIR in his characterization of HRC. But the fact that HRC acknowledged a "downside" to NAFTA is NOT incompatible at all with Obama's statement that she felt NAFTA (A MAJOR MAJOR effort of the Bill Clinton Administration, remembered by those who were old enough at the time to be following politics) was a +.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
20.  "No evidence she said that" - "We judge his statement to be False. " - Politifact.com
Politifact is the "Truth-o-meter" unit of DU sponsor Congressional Quarterly and the St. Petersburg Times.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. Oh Right!
We ALL know that the Clintons have always been Anti-NAFTA. :eyes:

Just like they have always opposed the Iraq War. :eyes:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. "No evidence she said that" - "We judge his statement to be False. " - Politifact.com
It is what is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. What? Obama twisting Clinton's words? Using them out of context? My my my.
I thought he was against such things.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Must be some other Barack Obama.
The one from a few months ago would never have lied like that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
24. Hillary WAS a Nafta supporter before the campaign. There is a long record.
Why is this an issue? Bill and Hillary both supported Nafta.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. "No evidence she said that" - "We judge his statement to be False. " - Politifact.com
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
27. Prior to March 2007, Clinton didn't have such a problem with NAFTA......
She was a Hillary come lately on the devastation of NAFTA. Just because she altered her position shortly before she started running, doesn't mean anything.

So Obama was right, because he didn't say.....in the last nine months, he said "just last year"...

See this part in the research? :shrug:

Clinton, indeed, energetically promoted NAFTA in the past, thanking corporations for furthering its goals during an address to the 1998 World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, and adding, "It is certainly clear that we have not by any means finished the job that has begun."

But even before she formally announced her candidacy, Clinton was expressing increased skepticism about globalization and questioning whether other nations were taking advantage of the United States' liberalized trade policies.

The critical tone intensified during the run-up to the Iowa caucuses.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/rulings/pants-fire/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
28. When Clinton mistakes what Obama says/meant she is a liar.
So who many here are going to call Obama a liar too? Not many I imagine. Obama doesn't lie...he just misunderstands or meant something different...but Clinton is a flat out bold faced liar. Doesn't seem fair or intelligent to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. She did find it all very funny......NAFTA, that is....
watch the video
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/video-clinton-thinks-naf_b_72948.html


TIME: The other thing I wanted to talk to you about was trade. You describe yourself as not a free trader or a fair trader but —

CLINTON: smart, pro-American trade.

TIME: But your husband was a free trader..

CLINTON: Uh-huh

TIME: What's this evolution about?

CLINTON: I think it's about the changing world in which we find ourselves. I believe very much in trade. Trade on balance has been very good for America.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1584649,00.html

-------------------
February 1, 2007

TIME: Do you think NAFTA was the right thing to do?

CLINTON: I think NAFTA was, in principle, a good idea to try to create a better trading market between Canada and the United States and Mexico. But I think the terms that it contained, and how it was negotiated under the Bush Administration and the failure to have any tough enforcement mechanism, like pollution on our border with Mexico, for example—

TIME: That was your husband's Administration, wasn't it? Because I recall a lot of debate about it not having labor standards and environmental standards.

CLINTON: But it was inherited. NAFTA was inherited by the Clinton Administration. I believe in the general principles it represented, but what we have learned is that we have to drive a tougher bargain. Our market is the market that everybody wants to be in. We should quit giving it away so willy-nilly. I believe we need tougher enforcement of the trade agreements we already have.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1584649,00.html
--------------------

Just last year, on Feb. 1, 2007, despite all of the evidence about the destruction of the middle class through NAFTA, Sen. Clinton said this:

"I think NAFTA was, in principle, a good idea."

Sen. Clinton went on to vote for free trade agreements with Singapore, Oman, Chile and Vietnam.

Finally, in 2000, Sen. Clinton supported "most favored nation" trade status for China despite concerns about China’s human rights record.

Of course, now that she's in the heat of a presidential race, Sen. Clinton says we need a "time-out" on trade. No one knows when this time-out will end. Maybe after the election?


Bankruptcy

With foreclosures going through the roof across America, personal bankruptcy is becoming a hot-button issue for middle-class Americans. Unfortunately, in 2001, Sen. Clinton supported reforms backed by the credit card companies making it harder for individuals to file for bankruptcy.

This was from the recent debate on MSBNC:

RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, you voted for the same 2001 bankruptcy bill that Senator Edwards just said he was wrong about. After you did that, the Consumer Federation of America said that your reversal on that bill, voting for it, was the death knell for the opponents of the bill. Do you regret that vote?

CLINTON: Sure I do, but it never became law, as you know. It got tied up. It was a bill that had some things I agreed with and other things I didn't agree with, and I was happy that it never became law.

What?!? Most people who don't support a bill vote against it. What is going on here?

Well, President Clinton vetoed this legislation in 2000 because "it was unfair to ordinary debtors and working families who fall on hard times.” Hillary Clinton supported her husband's position. So, she was against.

Then, during her US Senate campaign, Hillary Clinton received almost $210,000 in political contributions from Finance/Credit Companies, Credit Unions And Commercial Banks. Then, 2001 rolls around with these same groups pushing the bankruptcy bill and guess who votes for it?? You got it: Sen. Clinton! Here is Sen. Clinton's statement on the floor of the Senate on March 15 2001:

“Bankruptcy reform is important. I grew up with a father who worked hard to avoid having debts. In recent weeks, I have heard form many small credit unions throughout New York, hard working small lenders whose entire membership suffers when the credit union is faced with covering bankruptcy losses. <…> Reform is needed. The right kind of reform is necessary. We're on our way toward that goal, and I hope we can achieve final passage of a good bankruptcy reform bill this year.”

What were consumer groups saying about this bill?

“I’ve never seen a bill that was so one-sided,” said former senator Howard M. Metzenbaum, head of the Consumer Federation of America, a nonprofit consumer advocacy group. “The cries, claims and concerns of vulnerable Americans who have suffered a financial emergency have been drowned out by the political might of the credit card industry.”

I think I understand now. She was against it. Then for it. Then against it. Now, really against it. Sounds principled to me!

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/1/23/152921/892


FactCheck: for NAFTA while First Lady

Supports MFN for China, despite concerns over human rights
Clinton supported most favored nation trade status despite concerns about China’s human rights record. “We have to use our our moral and material strengths in ways that serve our evolving interests,” she said. “We have to ask ourselves what hope does the global market hold for the tens of millions of victims of child labor, or for the 100 million street children without homes or families whom I’ve seen everywhere from Brazil to Mongolia who are being left to fend for themselves.”

Voted YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore.
Vote to pass a bill that would put into effect a trade agreement between the US and Singapore. The trade agreement would reduce tariffs and trade barriers between the US and Singapore. The agreement would remove tariffs on goods and duties on textiles, and open markets for services The agreement would also establish intellectual property, environmental and labor standards.
Reference: US-Singapore Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act; Bill S.1417/HR 2739 ; vote number 2003-318 on Jul 31, 2003

Voted YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile.
Vote to pass a bill that would put into effect a trade agreement between the US and Chile. The agreement would reduce tariffs and trade barriers between the US and Chile. The trade pact would decrease duties and tariffs on agricultural and textile products. It would also open markets for services. The trade pact would establish intellectual property safeguards and would call for enforcement of environmental and labor standards.
Reference: US-Chile Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act; Bill S.1416/HR 2738 ; vote number 2003-319 on Jul 31, 2003

Voted YES on free trade agreement with Oman.
Vote on final passage of a bill to implement the United States-Oman Free Trade Agreement.

Opponents of the bill say to vote NAY because:

International trade can confer tremendous benefits on all of its participants. Unfortunately, the Oman Free Trade Agreement fails to live up to that potential.
In 2001, the US entered into a similar trade agreement with the country of Jordan. The agreement was heralded for its progressive labor standards. However, we have recently seen in Jordan instances of foreign workers forced into slave labor, stripped of their passports, denied their wages, and compelled to work for days without rest.
These incidents have been occurring in Jordan because Jordanian labor laws preclude protections for foreign workers. My fear in Oman is that they have far weaker labor standards, and that would lend itself to even worse conditions than in Jordan.
When our trade partners are held to different, less stringent standards, no one is better off. When Omani firms can employ workers in substandard conditions, the Omani workers and American workers both lose. The playing field is not level.
Proponents of the bill say to vote YEA because:
The Oman Free Trade Agreement sends a very important message that the US strongly supports the economic development of moderate Middle Eastern nations. This is a vital message in the global war on terrorism.
Since the end of WWII, the US has accepted nonreciprocal trade concessions in order to further important Cold War and post-Cold War foreign policy objectives. Examples include offering Japan and Europe nonreciprocal access to American markets during the 1950s in order to strengthen the economies of our allies and prevent the spread of communism.
Oman is quickly running out of oil and, as a result, has launched a series of measures to reform its economy. This free-trade agreement
http://www.ontheissues.org/International/Hillary_Clinton_Free_Trade.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. " Most people who don't support a bill vote against it. "
Or maybe they vote present or hit the wrong button by mistake. lol :evilgrin: Sorry, couldn't resist that...I'm a natural born smart ass...but I think you already knew that. Now I'll keep reading.....

Whether or not I agree with this post or others...I truly admire your research and commitment to the facts...not like some other people around here that just promote uninstantiated crap...which really gets my dander.

Now that I think of it...I'll have to finish this tomorrow. So far...so good. I have some research to do on the net that I've neglected. See ya later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
32. Obama and the Clintons have the same view on trade
Read Obama's book. Don't expect change on trade from Obama. Expect more NAFTAs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC