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My experience at a NV caucus last week as an Obama volunteer

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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:49 AM
Original message
My experience at a NV caucus last week as an Obama volunteer
It was an interesting experience, to say the least. Eye-opening. Disheartening, disillusioning, and disappointing as well. 4 volunteers from Phoenix, we drove home from the caucus alternating between fuming anger and numb confusion, feeling like the wind had been knocked out of us.

We were assigned to a young staffer who had been working the her rural region by herself and was grateful for the help. We arrived Thursday night and got to work early Friday morning, canvassing most of the day and making phone calls in the evening. One volunteer and I knocked on doors in a depressed railroad community, which was one of the bigger of the 3 tiny towns we were covering.

On Saturday (caucus day) we made a last-ditch effort to get out votes by putting door hangers out in the morning. We arrived at the caucus location promptly at 10, as we were told not to come any earlier. Several Clinton supporters, who had clearly been there for a while were standing with several signs in the corner of the parking lot. Seems that they had tried to enter the building to put the signs up, which was against the rules. We chatted with the Clinton precinct captain, a strapping macho dude with a handlebar mustache. I told him I was impressed with the operation they had going there and he proudly claimed that they had over a hundred pledged supporters for Sen. Clinton. My fellow volunteer and I quickly realized that things were not going to go well for us, given the difficulty we had nailing down the dozen or so pledges we had in the previous day we'd spent canvassing.

As several more Clinton supporters showed up we continued our conversation with Mr. Precinct Captain. He was a chatty fellow and obviously pleased to be talking to 2 women from out of town. He kept calling us "the Obama girls". He let us know that he used to work in Hollywood and was now singlehandedly fighting the meth trade and police corruption in town. He confided in us that they'd gotten emailed instructions from the campaign about how to discourage voters who were not for Clinton. He pulled out the memo that was circulated to Clinton people. The one that said "It's not illegal unless they tell you it is." He told us that between stuff like that and some of her policy positions he was "this close to going uncommitted today". Yet he was not deterred from trying to make a deal with us to close the caucus doors early. He said that since they expected up to 200 people that we should agree, if it got to that number, to not let any more people in even if it was prior to 12. Fire codes, you know. We told him that we were volunteers and could make no such agreements. We were going to follow the rules as stated.

By 10:30, voters were arriving in droves. Clearly the majority were eager Clinton supporters. We stood outside with our Obama stickers, hoping to catch a few supporters or undecideds. We were glad to see a few of our pledges showing up and there was also small but steady stream of Edwards supporters. The 17 year old Obama precinct captain and his dad were there to organize our folks. When voters showed up undecided, several Clinton volunteers would surround them and badger them to put on a sticker. Most of them refused but a few succumbed. This was a small town where everybody knew everybody.

The precinct chair did the best he could to enforce the caucus rules. He wouldn't let anyone have signs closer than 100 ft. from the building. He wouldn't open the doors until 10. No signs on the walls and no dragging all the chairs and couches into one candidate's corner (as the Clinton people tried). When Clinton volunteers showed up with platters of food, he told them they had to make it available to everyone or they couldn't have it there. When they tried to close the doors at 11:30 he refused to allow it. The Chair was for Edwards, and tried to be very fair with everyone. He was plenty disgusted with the aggressive behavior of the Clinton people that morning. He told us after the caucus that Mustachioed Precinct Captain and the staffer from California were so obnoxious and aggressive that he threatened to call the cops on them.

It became a melee because the space was small and some problems ensued, despite Precinct Chair's vigilance. People were given double-sided unofficial ballots to help with assessing the count. They were just these slips of paper where they'd check off their preferred candidate, and second choice if applicable. We discovered that a few undecided voters had been told to mark their first choice as "uncommitted". It was before noon and these were not official ballots but the facilitators refused to give them new ones and told them they were stuck with uncommitted as a first choice. Also, some Edwards and Obama supporters said they were told that they had to leave if their candidate wasn't viable. We assured them that they could make a second choice if that was the case. We checked with the chair and the facilitators and they said they told no one any such thing.

In the caucus, Sen. Clinton ended up with slightly more than half the roughly 120 caucusers. Edwards got about 40 and Obama wasn't viable, having only 15. We were 3 short, which was a bummer because 3 of our pledges didn't show up. The Obama people and the few uncommitted got their second choices. 2 undecideds went to Clinton and the remainder and all the Obama people went to Edwards. There was no persuasion involved. Most of the non-Clinton people were so annoyed by the Clinton people that they almost unanimously agreed to go to Edwards immediately. This was what they told us, not speculation on my part.

After all that, the final count was 12 county delegates for Clinton and 10 for Edwards.

We made the 3 hour drive back to Vegas to report back to the HQ there. We described our experience and the field coordinator told us that it was nothing compared to the reports that were flying in from all over the state. I'm guessing that our experience was pretty mild because we had a precinct chair who was well versed in the rules and enforced them.

I fail to see why the leadership of Clinton campaign cannot see the long term consequences of their scorched-earth strategies. There were thousands of enthusiastic, brilliant, and amazing young Obama supporters in NV this weekend. They are royally pissed at the Clintons and it's foolish to count on them to join Hillary like the Deaniacs joined Kerry in '04. The ones I met said they were seriously considering supporting Bloomberg if he got in the race. Do you really want part of your legacy to be that you squandered the finest young activists of the Democratic party to the altar of your ambition, Bill and Hillary?


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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. great post!
K&R
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. "scorched-earth"...
jeez...where did people dig this up from...I've seen it a lot today.....

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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. The phrase was probably in a recent Obama HQ memo
They're also using the word "shame" a lot.

Sadly, Obama himself has taken to repeating one of his surrogates' buzzphrases: "... anything to win ..."

--p!
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. I was there. You weren't. PM me if you want more details. nt
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
40. hmm..
do you have any pics to post..?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Nope. You can PM me if you want specific information
Out of respect for my fellow volunteers and the voters I'm not going to identify them here.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. I got it from the the Daily Kos post about the caucus
It really is a fitting metaphor for what was going on there. Bear in mind that the caucus I described was mild compared to many of the others. Another friend of ours volunteered in a bigger town in SW Nevada. 600 people there and the cops DID show up.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for your story! interesting......
and intimidating!

What bullies!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
4. If she's our nominee
I'm going to have a fuck of a time doing anything more than voting for her.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Synopsis: Clinton's people were devils, Obama's were angels
The same old themes and memes: Hillary is such a meanie, and Obama's people are blameless babes in the woods, being victimized by those big, bad wolves.

"Do you really want part of your legacy to be that you squandered the finest young activists of the Democratic party to the altar of your ambition, Bill and Hillary?"

Who's slip-streaming into the rich vein of the Freeper Big Lie campaign against the Clintons -- and swearing it's God's truth?

Do YOU really want part of the Obama legacy to be that he squandered the finest young activists of the Democratic party to the altar of HIS ambition?

It's going to backfire -- badly. A lot of people are supporting Hillary because of the bipartisan hatred for her. The New York senatorial races, not the Iowa caucuses, are the models to watch for how people respond to HRC.

--p!
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. That's a really lame reason to support anybody.
If there's so much "bipartisan hatred for her," maybe she's an utterly rotten candidate?

Ya think? :eyes:
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. Or maybe it's just a plain, unapologetic dogpile
It's easier when you recruit others to help you do your dirty work.

It also lets you avoid responsibility, one of the hallmarks of the Obama surragates' campaign.

--p!
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. So says the Clinton surrogate
I can back up everything I said.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Whatever. I was there. You weren't.
She's probably going to win the nomination. I've accepted that. You win. Are you happy?

I'll vote for her in the general. But I'm not going to help her or give her a dime of my money. Neither are any other Obama supporters I know. Are you happy?
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. Am I happy?
You don't care how happy I am, only how badly you were oppressed (i.e., how you got your feelings hurt). When you invite the public to a pity party, and not everybody brings presents, you don't have much of a right to get pissed off.

Well, when you're a Clinton supporter, nobody cares about your feelings. And that's fine. This is politics. I expect to be lied about, ridiculed, and heckled. You should expect to meet a few assholes along the way, too. Do you think the Republicans will go as easy on you and your candidate?

Admit it -- if a Clinton supporter told that tale about Obama campaign workers, you wouldn't believe it, and you'd probably certainly accuse Hillary of lying. And you'd expect your own behavior to be excused.

In fact, Clinton supporters HAVE made nearly identical charges. They have been ridiculed here and on other message systems. But Obama's charges are supposed to be taken with the utmost seriousness -- because they would never tell a lie. Just ask them.

:nopity:

--p!
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. "Well, when you're a Clinton supporter, nobody cares about your feelings"
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 11:43 AM by thecatburgler
You accuse me of fishing for sympathy then you post that shit. :nopity: Indeed.

One of the hallmarks of a bully is acting like you are the victim of what you are doing to others. The Clinton campaign seems to have mastered that.

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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. I WAS THERE!
I WAS THERE! No! I was there. I was there..you weren't...! I was there..who was there? oh..you were...waaaaaaa....bbbaaammaaa..
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Huh?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. It is a question of fairness and respect for the democratic process
and for the right of voters to make up their minds for themselves and for each person to vote his or her own beliefs and conscience. Aggressive tactics at the polls or at a caucus are not what the Democratic Party is about nowadays.

Candidates need to set an example for their supporters about the respect for the rights and feelings of others that democracy requires.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. I heard a similar report from a friend of mine who volunteered for
Edwards in Nevada. Hillary supporters were brought in and just swarmed the lobby of the hotel to which she was sent to monitor the caucus. They just overwhelmed things. My friend is not young.

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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Are you questioning this poster's honesty?
They are just reporting what they experienced. Were YOU there?

Oh and you forgot to mention the Edwards supporter caucus leader. He was a good guy too.
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
66. Were you there?
Just asking.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
67. That's an interesting position.
This statement caught my eye:

The New York senatorial races, not the Iowa caucuses, are the models to watch for how people respond to HRC.

I am genuinely curious. Why do you believe this? What makes the NY Senatorial Race more telling? Help me to see what you see.

Thanks in advance.

-Laelth
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Corkey Mineola Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. Democracy Means Sometimes you Lose
While I appreciate the detailed, studied tone of your essay about your experience, your bias for Sen Obama shows clearly through the transcript. The problem with this is that you make several charges against the Clinton campaign for which you offer no evidence whatsoever. You take an experience you had in a room with 200 people and try to turn it into a global argument against Sen Clinton and her campaign. The discipline of your argument crumbles with the pathetic closing lines about "Deaniacs" and how Bill and Hillary are ruining democracy.

It sounds to me that the caucus you attended was pretty darned democratic and you are just unhappy with the outcome. Your team was out-organized. Does this motivate you to get better organized for the AZ primary and the remaining contests? Or to hurl scurrilous charges against the opposing side?

I'm undecided as to how I will vote in the CA primary on Feb. 5. But the tenor of this and other dispatches from "Obama Supporters" is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Kucinich is probably my first choice. But, badly outnumbered and with little hope of winning any delegates, the scrappy candidate and his supporters are pressing on. See the video of him on the House floor today vowing to bring bills of impeachment against the criminal regime.

When you are outnumbered, out-organized, and lose a contest do you whine and slander the other sides? Or do you get busy, vowing to do better next time? I believe our American democracy, which these days seems to be suffering from severe hypoxia, can only benefit from the latter.

Go win AZ for Obama and let the Clinton team do its job. And lets elect a strong, Democratic president in November.

Former Deaniac, Kerry voter, and queer Californian.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Don't believe me? Fine. PM me and I'll give you more detail.
I'm not going to identify people and places in this forum.

Do you always assume that when several people are reporting the same thing that the reports themselves must be 'scurrilous'?

Do you believe that it's a normal part of the democratic process for participants to feel so threatened by other participants that they consider calling the police on them?

Is it democratic for the representatives of one candidate to try to shut the doors of the caucus 1/2 hour early? Why?
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
28. Let team Clinton do it's job? The job they tried to do on Nevada voters was disgusting.
Democracy lost when team Clinton tried to disenfranchise the voters of Nevada.
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Corkey Mineola Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
62. Where's the documentation of this disenfranchisement?
I've not seen it in the press or elsewhere. I'll go look.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. How could you miss it? 4 of Clinton's supporters helped
write the rules for the caucus and the voting places and then filed a lawsuit saying they didn't understand the rules as they wrote them (wtf?) - meaning that they expected Clinton to get the CWU endorsement, not Obama. So two days after CWU endorses Obama they file the suit trying to close the voting sites. That is called Voter Disenfranchisement. It wasn't ignored by the MSM, but since the lawsuit didn't have any legs and the Judge voted against them there hasn't been any follow up.

Again... I said "tried", I didn't say they succeeded.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
10. There have been several similar reports here
including one from somebody high up in Obama's campaign. Looks like the house always wins in Vegas.

Anyway thanks.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. "Finest young (Democratic) activists" voting for Bloomberg?
Fight for your candidate all you want. But come November, hold your nose if you have to (as I will) and vote (D). Otherwise you've got no room to bitch when the GOP takes the White House after the opposition ticket was split by the "finest young activists of the Democratic party".
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Corkey Mineola Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Hear Hear
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 02:24 AM by publichealthnut1
and let's just get as many of those young activists to the polls as possible in November. Low turnouts among young voters in previous presidential contests has helped hand victory to the repugs
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Hey, I'm just reporting what they said.
Personally, I'll vote for Her Majesty with a clothespin clamped firmly over my nose because I'm old enough to know the consequences of not doing that. But I can't force them to do that. Hopefully they'll come around.

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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I hope you hand them a recruiting brochure when they say that...
Because President McCain will sure need some "fine young people" for the beginning of his 100-year reign in Iraq.

Seriously, there is FAR too much at stake for lofty bullshit. Remind them who the "bad guy" REALLY is, at the end of the day. It's easy to get so wrapped up in campaigning against fellow Dems that we forget why we're all doing this.

Good luck, and welcome to the process!
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. That goes both ways
There's far too much at stake for the Clintons and their supporters to be acting like entitled jerks. She can win without resorting to bullying Democratic voters. I expected her to win by at least 10 points in Nevada, based on the previous trips I'd made there. Yet she won by single digits and felt the need to use slimy tactics to do so.
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. I heard a very similar story...
My mom is 70, she has never been an activist...but this year she decided to go to the caucus ...and tried to get into the town hall meeting a few days prior.

She was turned away from the town hall meeting due to "fire codes", and was really pissed because they could have had the event in a larger venue (like the local high school gym!)

She came away from the caucus feeling bewildered, upset and discouraged
Thinking the counts were fudged because of crowds moving from place to place to be counted twice, very disorganized...she was shocked that we would still rely on this type of information gathering in such an advanced society.

and she was (is?) a Clinton supporter.

BTW I am an Edwards supporter, and plan to vote as such in CA Feb 5th

I guess the point I am trying to make is that the whole caucus idea works in SMALL groups such as we had in the early days of our country's history - but if you have technology and people can cast a VOTE and that be COUNTED ONCE - that sems the better way to figure it all out...don't cha think? and when there's millions of votes, then everyone gets a voice, or so it should seem.

Sorry your experience was so awful. And for what it's worth, you are a great writer... But it's not just Obama people who are geting the shaft here. it's America as a whole because of the MSM and other brainwashing we have been subjecting ourselves to for lifetimes. Let's pray that a GOOD PERSON (oh lord, am I that idealstic?) will be able to make some changes before we see where this dead end road leads us...
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. My caucus site was filled to overflowing...
Actually had to move groups out into the hallways, once they had everyone "locked in" and counted.

More people involved in the process. Pain in the ass if you're there, but it's a GOOD thing.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
19. Where abouts were you in Nevada
what city or town was this?

I'm from NV and I'm sort of keeping track of other DUers' caucus experience so I'm curious. Also, how many total people showed up to this caucus?

Also, regarding this passage:
"We discovered that a few undecided voters had been told to mark their first choice as "uncommitted". It was before noon and these were not official ballots but the facilitators refused to give them new ones and told them they were stuck with uncommitted as a first choice. Also, some Edwards and Obama supporters said they were told that they had to leave if their candidate wasn't viable. We assured them that they could make a second choice if that was the case. We checked with the chair and the facilitators and they said they told no one any such thing."

Where was the caucus chair at this point -- was he not good at running the meeting and keeping the groups in order?

Also, had he not explained what an "uncommitted" meant and that it was not the same as being undecided?

One point about the 'ballots' -- there were no ballots, because in the caucus, we used preference cards. Blue on one side and red on the other -- the first side, blue I think, was to mark your first choice. The flip side was for marking your second choice in the event your first choice of candidate's group was not viable.

One last point, in our caucus, the chair and I told every observer who was not a registered voter in the precinct that they would have to sit off to the side in a designated area that we created for them. They were not allowed to talk with any of the voters during the entire event. Were you able to talk with people during this decision making process?

I appreciate your OP and the details you've provided. And I thank you for taking your time and energy to volunteer for a worthy cause. I am sorry to hear that some of these things happened. I had concerns about how these caucuses would be chaired and handled -- the Party had to rely on volunteers, some of whom had been asked to volunteer only last minute because of the lack of volunteers they could find.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Lincoln County
I don't want to identify the specific towns or people so PM me if you want more detail.

The ballots were as you described, blue on one side and red on the other, with the names of all the candidates and check boxes. Our understanding was that they were unofficial and simply a means of keeping an accurate count. There were 3 voters that we encountered who told us they were instructed to mark "uncommitted" for their first choice because they didn't indicate one as they were checking in. I know that the facilitators of the caucus (who were careful not to identify with a particular candidate during the intake process) didn't tell them to do that because we asked them. I don't know who did tell them that but I can tell you it wasn't me or my Obama companion. When they asked for another form they were denied and told they were stuck with 'uncommitted' as their first choice. It's possible that the facilitators weren't familiar with the rules on that. Otherwise, the precinct chair did an excellent job of keeping order and following the state party rules. I have no idea who told voters they had to leave if their first choice wasn't viable. Again, it wasn't us "Obama girls" or the caucus organizers.

When the actual caucus started, my friend and I were sent to a corner for observers, along with the Clinton staffer from CA and a group of kids who accompanied their parents. We were all silent during the process. Like I said, the Obama caucusers and the undecideds made their minds up pretty quickly about where they wanted to go after the first count. No persuasion on our part.

Hope that helps.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. My grandparents-in-law were married in Pioche -- the county seat of Lincoln County, IIRC
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 03:52 AM by Emit
Years ago -- they had this old wedding tradition - they called it a charivari -- where they wheeled the bride up the town to every bar in a wheelbarrow and the groom had to buy everyone in each bar a drink -- or some story like that.

Interesting part of NV -- Lincoln County -- from what I've been told. I've never been down there. Pioche, Caliente, Carp, Panaca, etc. Tiny towns, some with hardly any registered Democrats, I suppose. The rurals are very hard to canvass. That must have been a tough time for you. I heard stories from friends who came over from CA in '04 to help in the rurals. They said it was hard talking to folks and a lot of work.


Thanks for clarifying my questions -- and again, thanks for coming over to NV and helping monitor our process. We have a lot of work to do if the Dem Party here is set on continuing to caucus like this.

edit typo
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. It was hard!
People are friendly but when you're walking down the street they know you're not from there.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
25. Aaahh, bareknuckled politics like in the good ol' days...
No, I'm not excusing what they did there, but sometimes it does get rough. And there will be a lot worse going on in some areas up until November.

The Clintons have built a juggernaut of a campaign machine, and a lot of their people are old school-- no finesse and scorched earth is fine with them as long as you win. But, one of the first rules of politics is never hold a grudge unless it's personal. And with Hillary's juggernaut it's not at all personal. It's "just business."

So, sometimes you're just gonna get run over, and the thing to do is just get up and keep on going. And then if Hillary does win maybe not forgive, but try to forget and still keep going. That's just he way it's gonna be, so get on board with Hillary, or get out of the way.

And, yeah, my guys got sandbagged, blindsided, and generally screwed in Joisey dirty politics more often than you wanna know, so I know how it feels. But you still gotta go on 'cause you are gonna win a few here and there.

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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
35. See, I disagree that it's not personal with them
Probably for the people at the top of the campaign, it's all a game of strategy. For her supporters at the local level, it seems intensely personal. There are women who won't speak to me at political events because I don't support Clinton. When our Governor (Janet Napolitano) endorsed Obama over Clinton the reaction was off-the-charts! I've never seen such outrage to a mere endorsement in my life. People were publicly threatening to punish her politically for it. It was embarrassing. I stopped being involved in women's groups I belong to because the pressure to support Clinton was so intense.

As for the caucus, it was actually pretty tame compared to the others I've heard about. What still puzzles me is why the Clinton folks felt compelled to act the way they did, considering how far ahead she was anyway. She was winning handily! If anything, their behavior drove undecided and Obama voters away. That's where the term "scorched earth" seems appropriate. When we talked to other caucus volunteers and heard similar stories (and worse) to ours it became apparent that this is coming from the top. "It's not illegal unless they tell you it is" is a strange directive to give to campaign operatives.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #35
51. Were you around in the 60s? I remember...
fistfights in the streets at political rallies. Seeing Goldwater zealots tossing spittle with veins popping was a a truly horrific sight. But, those were the bottom ranks of the "supporters." they weren't really allowed to do much besides drool on us nasty liberals.

So, when I say it's not personal, I don't mean the people harassing you. To some of them it was intensely personal-- almost a religious experience.

But, to the pros involved, it's still just business. The point is to win, and the stakes are incredibly high. The Clintons are playing to win and they will skate around common decency if they have to. Doesn't make them evil, just politicans playing hardball.

(But, think just how much fun it will be seeing our side GIVING the lumps come November if she's the nominee...)

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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
61. I have thought of that
I can see that she'll be a formidable opponent in the general, which is admittedly a concern of mine about Obama. However, doing this stuff in the primary against fellow Democrats is not endearing her to me and the many longtime and brand new activists working for Obama. The Clarkies and Deaniacs in my area never for a moment hesitated to join Kerry once it was clear he was going to win, I'm not seeing that with the Obama people. Maybe we'll get over it by then but I don't know. I'll vote for her for sure but I plan to give her neither money nor volunteer support at this time. I speak as someone who took two months off of work to work on the Kerry campaign fulltime even though he was never my first choice.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. ". . so get on board with Hillary, or get out of the way"
Guess I'll be getting out of the way, then.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #37
52. I hope you're happy with President Huckleberry, or..
Mittens, or McCain.

Hillary must be really horrible if you prefer any of those Republicans.



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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Did I say I prefer the Republicans?
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 01:23 PM by loindelrio
You said "get on board with Hillary, or get out of the way".

I am complying with your directive.

I will drag myself in to vote, but that will be the extent of my effort.

I will "get out of the way".

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. OK. Point taken.
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alteredstate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
31. I've heard the same thing from the Nevada folks who've come to SC
and we've heard some truly hair-raising stuff from the NH Obama staff and volunteers who are in town to help us GOTV on Saturday.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
33. Were your last ditch efforts attempting to get republicans to select the Democratic Party's choice? ...
At the time, did you hear about Obama's brochure passed out at the last minute, which encouraged Republicans to be Democrats for a day?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Republicans and independents can re-register on the day of the caucus
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 12:05 PM by thecatburgler
There's nothing illegal about that. Trying to shut the doors of the caucus 1/2 early was illegal. The Clinton operatives at the caucus I was at didn't succeed because the precinct chair was enforcing the rules.

The Obama campaign was trying to get more voters out. The Clinton campaign was trying to stop people from voting. See the difference?

Thanks for playing. :hi:
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. So, its just fine with you for republicans to select the Democratic Party's nominee?
I thought so.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. So, it's just fine with you to bar the doors early and prevent people from voting?
I thought so.

And yes, it is fine for Republicans and Independents to vote in our primary, if it's legal in their state to do so. I don't see why you have a problem with people exercising their legal right to vote the way they choose.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I never talked about that subject. Unlike Obama supporters ...
I don't pretend to know everything
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I think party members should select their party's nominee. Obama's people should....
just skip to the general election if you don't want the parties to select their own nominee.

I'm truly sick of seeing you Obama folks court those I have been battling all these years.

My gawd.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I don't consider myself to be in a battle with most Republicans and indies I know
They are my friends, neighbors, co-workers, even members of my own family. They can vote for whomever they want, so long as it's legal for them to do so.

Again, do you NOT want moderate Rs and indies to vote for Clinton in the General if she's our nominee?

Out of curiousity, if you're so bitterly partisan then why are you supporting one of the more centrist candidates in the race? Your attitude is much more common in Kucinich supporters. :shrug:
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
34. "It's not illegal unless they tell you it is."
And the difference between Clintonian and Rovian tactics is . . .

I started having major doubts while observing her campaign's conduct in Iowa.

Her statement the day after the MLK Day debate sealed it.

If she gets the nomination, I will be reduced to the role of the prole waddling in to vote for the lesser of two evils.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
38. What a great piece, I read every word.
A caucus can be a tough thing. I was in Iowa, and Nevada for caucus. I hate to say, by far, the Clinton supporters were the hardest to work with.

Good luck with your guy, and don't give up.

K&R
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
50. Noone can control every supporter in every precinct.

Look at DU. I am fairly certain Obama, Clinton and Edwards would love more than a few of their DU supporters to shut it.


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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. Absolutely.
The local Clinton supporters were nice people. Some of them got a little overly enthusiastic but that's to be expected. It was the precinct captain and the staffer from CA who were threatened to have the cops called on them, first for trying to push their way into the site before 10 am, and then for trying to shut the doors at 11:30.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
54. Did you guys take photo?
your phone, in the future, use your phone camera as evidence.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. My phone battery was dead but the volunteer who was with me took photos.
We've been asked by the campaign not to post any of them online at this time. I have my own blog but I didn't post anything there because we were asked not to blog about the caucuses.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Which ones of the campaign? n/t
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. The field coordinators in NV.
We were asked not to talk to the press and not to blog. I'm skirting that by posting here but I'm staying anonymous as possible. I know they have filed a complaint and are continuing to compile evidence.
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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
60. You sure like poetic license don't you? Mind if I translate?
"a strapping macho dude with a handlebar mustache"...........tell me, what do you look like? And why is your interpretation of this man's appearance relevant?

"Several Clinton supporters, who had clearly been there for a while were standing with several signs in the corner of the parking lot."..........and you have proof of this? and even if you did have proof of this I know of no rules to prevent volunteers from showing up in a parking lot a few minutes before starting time.

"He confided in us that they'd gotten emailed instructions from the campaign about how to discourage voters who were not for Clinton.".........translation......he told us that they had been given suggestions on how to possibly help undecided voters to chose their candidate.

"I told him I was impressed with the operation they had going there and he proudly claimed that they had over a hundred pledged supporters for Sen. Clinton. My fellow volunteer and I quickly realized that things were not going to go well for us, given the difficulty we had nailing down the dozen or so pledges we had in the previous day we'd spent canvassing."..........translation.........more people like Clinton than Obama.

"He said that since they expected up to 200 people that we should agree, if it got to that number, to not let any more people in even if it was prior to 12. Fire codes, you know. We told him that we were volunteers and could make no such agreements. We were going to follow the rules as stated."......."It became a melee because the space was small and some problems ensued, despite Precinct Chair's vigilance. "............just a thought.....gee you might have oughta listened to the Clinton guy who tried to warn you that there was a shitload of people coming and knew there would be safety issues.

"They were just these slips of paper where they'd check off their preferred candidate, and second choice if applicable. We discovered that a few undecided voters had been told to mark their first choice as "uncommitted". It was before noon and these were not official ballots but the facilitators refused to give them new ones and told them they were stuck with uncommitted as a first choice. Also, some Edwards and Obama supporters said they were told that they had to leave if their candidate wasn't viable. We assured them that they could make a second choice if that was the case. We checked with the chair and the facilitators and they said they told no one any such thing.".....and it's Clinton's supporters fault that there "were these slips of papers"......or perhaps this was what was handed out by the caucus organizers? And if the facilitators refused to give them new ones then that's AGAIN not a Clinton supporter's fault now is it? And as to your insinuation regarding 2nd choices.........do you have proof of this allegation or are you just spouting shit as you think it up?

"In the caucus, Sen. Clinton ended up with slightly more than half the roughly 120 caucusers. Edwards got about 40 and Obama wasn't viable, having only 15. We were 3 short, which was a bummer because 3 of our pledges didn't show up."........translation........a hell of a lot of people like Clinton better than Edwards and Obama. ......and our some of our so-called supporters couldn't even bother to show up........yea they are really committed.

"I fail to see why the leadership of Clinton campaign cannot see the long term consequences of their scorched-earth strategies. There were thousands of enthusiastic, brilliant, and amazing young Obama supporters in NV this weekend. They are royally pissed at the Clintons and it's foolish to count on them to join Hillary like the Deaniacs joined Kerry in '04. The ones I met said they were seriously considering supporting Bloomberg if he got in the race. Do you really want part of your legacy to be that you squandered the finest young activists of the Democratic party to the altar of your ambition, Bill and Hillary?"...........translation.......we are young and know better than everyone else about what is for the best and if you don't do as we say we will take our toys and go home. We won't play anymore.













:eyes:
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. You spent a lot of time analyzing my post. I'm flattered!
However, none of your "gotcha!" statements discredit me in any way. It's a straightforward description of my experience and I clearly identify myself as an Obama supporter from the get-go. It's my account and I'm allowed to take any license I want when it comes to describing people who were there or my feelings about the event. (Really, how can you not include a description of the precinct captain when he's a former show business one-man meth vigilante force with a handlebar mustache? You may be able to withstand the temptation but I cannot!) You are free to disbelieve my post but there is no logical basis to any of your criticisms of my writing.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. You and the others who had first hand experience aren't
the only ones who have taken note of hilary and bil and their rovian tactics.

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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
64. Thank you for sharing this. I will bookmark and add to the dozen or so others
just like it for when the time comes that "selective memory" sets in here at DU.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
68. Thank you, cat..that was beautifully, poignantly
written..just what I was afraid of from all the other reports we've been getting.
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