Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Obama spin about Planned Parenthood doesn't explain his present votes

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:25 PM
Original message
Obama spin about Planned Parenthood doesn't explain his present votes
Fact Sheet: Sen. Obama's 129 Present Votes

Sen. Obama voted present 129 times on a wide array of issues, including choice, privacy for victims of sexual assault, and school violence. In fact, the Obama campaign claimed that Sen. Obama’s present votes were part of a legislative strategy but failed to mention that Sen. Obama was the lone present vote on a number of key issues.

Sen. Obama’s Present Votes By The Numbers

Sen. Obama voted 'present' 129 times while in the State Senate.

In 1999, Sen. Obama voted 'present' more often than he voted 'no': According to state records, Obama voted 'present' 43 times in 1999, while voting 'no' just 29 times.

At least 36 times, Sen. Obama was either the only State Senator to vote present or was part of a group of six or fewer to vote that way.

Other Present Votes of Interest:

Sen. Obama was the only State Senator to vote 'present' on a bill that sought to protect the privacy of sex-abuse victims, and the only state senator to not support the bill.

Sen. Obama was the only State Senator to vote 'present' on an adoption bill that imposed stricter requirements for parental fitness, and the only State Senator to not support the bill.

Sen. Obama voted 'present' on a bill that would increase penalties for the use of a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school. The bill called for the mandatory adult persecution of a minor at least 15 years of age being tried for using a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school.

Sen. Obama voted 'present' on a bill to prohibit the presence of adult sex shops near schools, places of worship, and day care facilities; bill allows local governments to regulate the presence of adult sex shops.

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id=5191

Only a few of his "present" votes can be explained by PP's strategy, which Illinois NOW criticized him for. Obama has never "explained" all the other present votes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. you folks never quit, especially when the facts are against you, do you?
what utter, absolute bullshit.

For the last time, "PRESENT" voting is a specific method in Illinois to

a) continue negotiations on a bill
b) maintain a quorum
c) allow the floor leaders to know of objections to current amendments
d) make changes before a final vote.

IT IS TOTALLY UNHEARD OF IN OTHER STATES. IT IS AN ILLINOIS TOOL

STOP WITH THE BILL-SHIT already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Obama voted present on Kyl-Lieberman too. Was that in Illinois?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Wasn't the problem that he was explicitly *not* present?
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 02:33 PM by Occam Bandage
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. (psst. facts confuse them. don't bother. Hillarians have their marching orders
contrary facts and the truth only serve to anger them)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. A shot over the bow! Rake the funnel with the 50 caliber!
Boom!! :nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. "fact" and "HillaryHub" in the same sentence is an oxymoron
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe he pushed the wrong button?
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Easily amused, I see. Sign of a simple mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Not so simple I can't tell the difference between yea and nay...nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. and "presents" are an Illinois tool for
other purposes, including changing the bill, adding, subtracting amendments, and more. Hillary's argument is like ticketing a car for illegal parking when they stop to fill up for gas, and head inside to pay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. So when he was the one and only present vote...
What strategy does that indicate...

And in fact in the cases being discussed it is a political strategy to give cover to vulnerable Democrats...of which Obama was not one...

It is clear he was given an opening to keep from taking stands on issues...and he took em...

A pattern he has adopted as a U.S. Senator as well

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. ah, if ignorance is bliss, you must be elated.
IFF you listen to bill&hill, you might suspect that he was the only one to vote that way.

Sorry, that is just plain wrong. It is a commonly used tool on both sides of the aisle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Yes it is...
Perhaps you can explain the strategy behind Obamas Present vote on the following...

btw: He was the ONE AND ONLY part time State Senator to vote Present on this bill...

HB 854 is still part of Public Act 93-0210. c-5) Whenever a person has been convicted of criminal sexual assault, aggravated criminal sexual assault, predatory criminal sexual assault of a child, criminal sexual abuse, or aggravated criminal sexual abuse, the victim of that offense may request that the State's Attorney of the county in which the conviction occurred file a verified petition with the presiding trial judge at the defendant's trial to have a court order entered to seal the records of the clerk of the circuit court in connection with the proceedings of the trial court concerning that offense. However, the records of the arresting authority and the Department of State Police concerning the offense shall not be sealed. The court, upon good cause shown, shall make the records of the clerk of the circuit court in connection with the proceedings of the trial court concerning the offense available for public inspection. (Public Act -93-0210)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. Hillary said 130 votes! It was only 129! Hillary bad!
:spank:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. the present button is yellow for a reason. nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Because "red" and "green" mean "stop" and "go," and "yellow" means "caution."
Seems about right, given the intended use of "present."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I was thinking coward...but you are right in a traffic signal sense. nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Coward, eh?
If you're so brave how come you have to rely on so much bullshit?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. I'm concerned, tho, about how these "present" votes would look in the General
if Obama is our candidate. Anything you have to explain with a multi-part answer in order to defuse is going to be tough, if not downright impossible in the election campaign. People don't listen long enough for that kind of answer. I "get" it about the present vote, but I have been paying attention. And even I had to read thru a few reams of explication to understand it. The sad fact is that it is going to be used by the Republicans as a stick to beat Obama with mercilessly. It's going to be Swift Boating all over again. That's obviously why the Clinton campaign is using it now; they are shrewd politicians and can read how this stuff will play.

I'm not trying to be difficult or perverse here; I just smell a really bad campaign outcome...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yet another nonsense attack lacking imagination and research.
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 02:43 PM by Perky
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) -- Barack Obama's rivals in the Democratic presidential race contend he sometimes voted ''present'' on tough issues rather than take a firm stand.

''In the Illinois state Senate, Senator Obama voted 130 times 'present.' That's not yes, that's not no. That's maybe,'' Hillary Rodham Clinton said in a debate Monday.

Obama responds that Clinton is cherry-picking a handful of votes from a long legislative career and then distorting them.

THE SPIN: Obama portrays himself as someone voters can trust to tell the truth and skip the usual political games. Clinton and John Edwards are using his ''present'' votes to offer a different picture -- one of Obama ducking tough issues or refusing to support common-sense legislation.

THE FACTS: Obama acknowledges that over nearly eight years in the Illinois Senate, he voted ''present'' 129 times. That was out of roughly 4,000 votes he cast, so those ''presents'' amounted to about one of every 31 votes in his legislative career.

Illinois legislators often vote ''present'' and for a wide variety of reasons. Sometimes blocs of lawmakers do it as a protest in some dispute over rules and procedures. Obama was often joined in his ''present'' votes by 10 or 20 other senators.

In other cases, lawmakers do it to signal objections to the details of a measure that they support in principle. They also use ''present'' votes as strategic moves to defeat legislation or, of course, simply to avoid taking a firm position.

Clinton highlights several of Obama's ''present'' votes that she considers questionable.

Several involve abortion -- a ban on certain late-pregnancy abortions, a requirement that a minor's parents be notified and restrictions on a type of abortion where the fetus sometimes survives for short periods.

''A woman's right to choose ... demands a leader who will stand up and protect it,'' said one Clinton campaign mailer.

But the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council says Obama's ''present'' votes were actually part of a careful strategy to prevent those restrictions from passing.

President Pam Sutherland said the group feared several senators were going to vote ''yes'' on the legislation because of attacks from Republicans over their past opposition. Sutherland says she approached Obama and convinced him to vote ''present'' so that the wavering senators would do the same. For their purposes, a ''present'' was as good as an outright ''no'' because it kept the bills from reaching the majority needed to pass.

Clinton also points out that Obama was the lone ''present'' vote on legislation allowing the victims of rape and other sex crimes to have their court records sealed. Obama explains now that he had questions about its constitutionality, although the law has never been struck down by the courts.

Neither the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault nor the House sponsor of the legislation faults Obama for his vote. Former state representative Lauren Beth Gash, who supports Obama for president, said she ultimately disagreed with his constitutional concerns but that Obama raised legitimate questions and was acting on principle.

Obama also voted ''present'' on legislation making it easier to send juveniles to adult court. He said in debate that he felt the measure violated an agreement, reached after an overhaul of the juvenile justice system a year earlier, to wait on further changes until the new system had been reviewed.

But he did not explain why he wasn't simply voting ''no.''

^------

By Christopher Wills

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. SaveElmer shot the Obamite spin down earlier in this thread
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Jan-24-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. So when he was the one and only present vote...

What strategy does that indicate...


And in fact in the cases being discussed it is a political strategy to give cover to vulnerable Democrats...of which Obama was not one...

It is clear he was given an opening to keep from taking stands on issues...and he took em...

A pattern he has adopted as a U.S. Senator as well
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. My post was not Obama spin... It was an AP fact check article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. Illinois NOW can kiss my fine feminist ass
For supporting a lying, smearing, Rovian warmonger. I'm planning to send my torn up membership card to my local group for trying to shove Clinton down its members' throats. Guess they're doing it all over the county.

Fuck NOW. :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nailzberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. I know Planned Parenthood employees that told NOW to take them off thier fundraising lists.
They don't fuck around when it comes to lying about choice.

And my mom told them off when IL NOW asked her for her annual donation. She added that amount to her usual Planned Parenthood donation instead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. That's exactly what I'm doing.
NOW will get no support from me until they straighten up and fly right. The right to choose is too important.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nailzberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Here's a paraphrased quote from a good friend of mine
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 03:21 PM by Nailzberg
"I've wanted so badly to vote a woman into the White House, and the first one with a chance lies to me about choice."

We're both well-informed, and she's a corporate employee of Planned Parenthood. I don't think Hillary knows the kind of bridges she will have to rebuild.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Zing!
I always say that there's nothing feminist about warmongering.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. More LIES from the Hillaryworlders. Here's the Smackdown
Now read this (assuming you can read at a 4th grade level):

Fact Check: Present Votes are an Accepted Legislative Strategy in the Illinois Senate
December 20, 2007

Obama Was Praised for Showing Leadership on Tough Issues -- Representing a Safe Democratic District, He Used His Position To Help More Vulnerable Senators Do The Right Thing. Zorn wrote, "Obama, however, was in a safe district and never faced a serious challenge for his legislative seat. He had no need to shy from hard-line stands on gun control and abortion rights. He actually took such stands frequently and is now highly praised by advocates for both causes."

Planned Parenthood President: Anyone Who Thinks A Present Vote Is A "Duck" Doesn't Understand How the Process Works. "There is a presumption, if one is not familiar with the mechanics of the General Assembly, that a present vote is a 'duck.' Pam Sutherland, the CEO and President of Illinois Planned Parenthood said of Hull argument: "I think it's not well-based...I think it's somebody who doesn't understand how the legislative process works."

Handgun Violence Opponents: Criticizing Present Votes Indicates "You Don't Have A Great Understanding Of The Process." "'Criticizing Obama on the basis of 'present' votes indicates you don't have a great understanding of the process,' said Thom Mannard, director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence."

Voting Present in the State Legislature is Used as A Signal to the Other Party, Not As a Way to Duck the Issue. "An aspect of Obama's State Senate voting record that is drawing attention is his "present" votes. A present vote is a third option to an up or down "yes" or "no" that is used with great frequency in the Illinois General Assembly. It has many varied and nuanced meanings that, in the context of the actual bills, border on boring. It's most important use is as a signal -- to the other party, to the governor, to the sponsor -- to show a willingness to compromise on the issue if not the exact bill, to show disapproval for one aspect of the bill, to question the constitutionality of the bill, to strengthen the bill.

Obama Said He Would Vote 'Present' On Unconstitutional Bills, Saying He Tried To Resist Bad Votes Even If They Made Good Politics. The Sun Times wrote, "Obama says his 'present' votes often come on bills that he believes are unconstitutional. 'I have tried to not succumb to the temptation of voting on bad laws just because it makes for good politics,' Obama said."

Senators Would Vote Present If They Had 'Unresolved Worries.' The State Journal-Register reported, "Sen. George Shadid, the Edwards Democrat who is pushing the legislation, promised Senate Education Committee members that he wouldn't move ahead with Senate Bill 368 'unless I can get a good consensus.'…Four committee members cited unresolved worries when they voted 'present' on the measure, which passed 7-0."
Specific Bills Raised By The New York Times

SB 759 - OBAMA SAID HE WAS VOTING PRESENT ON THE FLOOR; OBAMA SAID THAT THE PROVISIONS WERE NEGOTIATED OUT OF THE ORIGINAL JUVENILE JUSTICE REFORM BILL AND THAT THE SENATE WAS GOING BACK ON ITS WORD

Obama Voted Present On Bill To Charge Minor As Adult For Gun Crime Near A School Because There Was No Proof That The Measure Would Reduce Juvenile Crime. Obama voted present on a bill to allow a minor to be tried as an adult if he/she is charged with aggravated battery with a firearm at or near a school. Obama said, "I did just want to point out that last year we worked on a almost complete overhaul of the Juvenile Justice Code, and this provision was debated at length during negotiations with the various State's attorney's office. Part of the reason that we negotiated it out of that original bill was at least the sense of some of us that there is really no proof or indication that automatic transfers and increased penalties and adult penalties for juvenile offenses have, in fact, proven to be more effective in reducing juvenile crime or cutting back on recidivism. I know there's disagreements with other folks, but I did just want to point out that last year when we worked -- guided so ably by Senator Hawkinson -- on this bill, the sense was that we had more or less completed an overhaul of the code and that we were going to pause for a moment, see how that worked before we moved on. And I guess I'd just like to point out that here we are, a year later, doing the exact same thing that we had been doing prior to the changes that we initiated last year and that is to increase penalties further for juveniles and try them further as adults and expand the number of offenses. So for that reason, I'm going to be voting present." <91st GA, SB 0759, 3/25/99, 3R P; 52-1-5 (BO: P); Session Transcript, 3/25/99, p.209>


HB 854 -- OBAMA VOTED PRESENT BECAUSE A BILL WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Obama Voted Present On The Floor And In Committee On A Bill That Would Seal Sexual Assault Victims' Court Records; Illinois Press Association And Obama Argued That The Bill Was Unconstitutional. Obama voted present on a bill to amend the Criminal Identification Act by allowing certain assault victims to petition to have their court records sealed, only to be opened for public inspection if good cause is shown. Under the bill the trials involving sex crimes would remain open, but upon a conviction, a victim of a sex crime could ask a state's attorney to petition a judge to seal the records of the case. If the judge agreed, the public could not open those records unless someone petitioned the court and showed good cause. The State Journal-Register reported, "But the Illinois Press Association argued that the measure violates the First Amendment. The U.S. Constitution does not allow judges to seal the records of trials that have been held in open court, said association attorney Don Craven. Besides, Craven argued, the legislation does not allow defendants the same opportunity if they're found not guilty. And there's no indication what would happen to the case files if the verdict were appealed. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Chicago, agreed that the bill probably wouldn't pass constitutional muster, although he said it's not unusual for his colleagues to pass such measures to show political resolve." <91st GA, HB 0854, 5/11/99, 3R P; 58-0-1; State Journal-Register, 4/28/99>

3 Of The 4 Democrats On The Judiciary Committee Voted Present On This Bill. In committee, Senators Shadid and Silverstein joined Obama in voting Present on HB 854. <91st GA, HB 854, Jud Committee, 7-0-3, 4/28/99>

When Similar Measures Were Passed In Other States Following A Scandal, The Press Raised Similar Constitutional Objections. The AP reported, "News executives in both states said the legislation was unnecessary and would hinder freedom of the press. 'It's another case where in order to achieve some possible good, legislatures are often willing to run right over basic constitutional rights,' said J. Randolph Murray, editor of The Anchorage Times in Alaska. 'We are against the thing because of the blanket restrictions it would impose,' said Doug Crews, executive director of the Missouri Press Association. 'Once a restriction such as this is made, where is the line drawn and where does it stop in the area of law enforcement records?'"


HB 1511 -- OBAMA VOTED PRESENT ON A BILL WHOSE SUPPORTERS ADMITTED IT WAS UNFINISHED

Obama Voted Present On A Bill That Would Require Aggravating Allegation To Be Included To The Trier Of Fact As An Element Of The Offense; The Bill Was Not Deemed Ready At The Time Of The Vote With Promises From Its Supporters To Revisit It In The Spring, Which They Did Not Do. Obama voted present on a bill to amend the Code of Criminal Procedure to provide that, in all cases in which the death penalty is not a possibility, if an alleged fact -- other than the fact of a prior conviction -- is not an element of an offense but is sought to be used to increase the range of penalties for the offense beyond the statutory maximum that could otherwise be imposed for the offense, the alleged fact shall be included in the charging instrument or provided to the defendant through a written notice before trial, submitted to the trier of fact as an element of the offense, and proved beyond a reasonable doubt. <91st GA, HB 1511, 3R P 54-2-2, 11/30/00; PA 91-0953, 2/23/01>

Illinois State Bar Association: "Bill Needs More Time, It Needs More Discussion, It Needs More Input By The Legislators And I Don't Think That Has Happened To This Point." Chicago Daily Law Bulletin reported, "But Daniel L. Houlihan, legislative counsel to the Illinois State Bar Association, said the bill appeared to be so flawed that lawmakers shouldn't rush to pass it. 'This bill needs more time, it needs more discussion, it needs more input by the legislators and I don't think that has happened to this point,' he said."


HB 3793 -- BILL WAS "MEANINGLESS," "MEDDLESOME," AND AN EXAMPLE OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY "WASTING ITS TIME"

Obama Voted Present On Teacher Curriculum Requirements. Obama voted present on a bill to amend the School Code by requiring public school teachers to teach pupils discipline and respect for others. <90th GA, HB 3793, 5/13/98, 3R P; 44-10-1; P.A. 90-0620, 7/10/98>

Bloomington Pantagraph: Bill Would Create A Mandate With No Objective Standards, General Assembly Was 'Wasting Its Time.' The Bloomington Pantagraph wrote in an editorial, "Illinois schools have enough problems without the General Assembly wasting its time on measures that are at best symbolic, mostly meaningless and at worst meddlesome…the Legislature sent a bill to the governor that would require public school teachers to teach pupils discipline and respect for others. The school code already requires honesty, kindness and justice to be taught to students...All this bill will do is...clutter the school code and widen the rift between teachers and lawmakers who try to micromanage their classrooms."


SB 609 -- OBAMA SPOKE ON THE FLOOR THAT THE SENATE SHOULD NOT OVERRIDE HOME RULE

Obama Voted Present On Adult Business Location Restrictions Because Of Home Rule; The Bill Failed. Obama voted present on a bill creating the Adult Uses Location Restriction Act, providing restrictions on the proximity of adult entertainment establishments to schools, parks, places of worship, pre-schools, day care facilities, mobile home parks, and/or other residential areas, (Senate Amendment No. 1) constituting minimum restriction on the location of adult uses for all governmental units, including home rule units and allows governmental units to enact more stringent restrictions. When discussing the bill, Obama said, "ost of us would prefer not to have an adult bookstore or -- movie theater or something next to our -- next to our residence, but that's exactly why we have local zoning ordinances...And it seems to me that if there's ever been a function that has historically been relegated to local control and is appropriately there, it's these kinds of zoning matters." <92nd GA, SB 0609, 3/29/01, 3R L; 33-15-5 (BO: P); 92nd General Assembly, Session Transcript, 3/29/01, p.160>


Even Though Present Votes Attack Was Raised And Rebutted In 2003, Clinton Campaign Recycles Old Opposition Research

The "Dirt" On Attacks on Obama's Present Votes Is "All Over The Hands of Those Pointing The Finger." "This column has the dirt on the issue of state Sen. Barack Obama's "present" votes on tough issues in the Illinois Legislature--votes that at least two of his opponents in the March 16 Democratic U.S. Senate primary say mark him as a coward... There's dirt here all right. It's all over the hands of those pointing the finger."

Emily's List Head Ellen Malcolm Held A Press Conference To Discuss Obama's Present Votes. First Read reported, "Describing it as a press conference gone awry would be putting it mildly. Before the start of the NPR debate yesterday afternoon, the Clinton campaign arranged for Ellen Malcolm, the head of Emily's List, to hold a press conference with reporters. Malcolm took the podium and argued that Clinton was the only candidate in this race who had stood up when it was tough, especially on women's issues...Malcolm hadn't mentioned Obama by name, but she said that those who vote "present" at tough times don't show a true commitment to leadership - referring to Obama's "present" votes on some anti-abortion measures while serving in the Illinois state Senate. But reporters asked Malcolm why the head of the Illinois Planned Parenthood had said in the Los Angeles Times that Obama was getting in trouble for a "present"-vote strategy that the pro-choice group had devised."

Hillary: Obama "Voted Present" On Choice And Gun Issues As A Member Of The Illinois Senate. Hillary Clinton said, "Well, in the Illinois state senate, on issue after issue, my opponent voted present instead of yes or no. Seven of those votes were on a women's right to choose, two of those votes were on measures to protect families from gun violence, one of which was a measure about firing guns on or near school grounds."

Blair Hull Criticized Obama For Voting Present. The Chicago Tribune reported, "Obama's commitment to abortion rights has also been questioned in campaign mailings from rival Blair Hull, who has criticized the state senator for several "present" votes he cast on bills relating to abortion. 'It's inexcusable,' Hull said while campaigning Downstate Tuesday. 'If you are absolutely pro-choice, you don't vote present.' But abortion-rights advocates have been quick to defend Obama, arguing that his "present" votes were strategic legislative maneuvers that many other lawmakers who support their cause also participated in."

Hull Sent Out Mail That Said That Obama "Ducked" Present Votes; Maria Pappas Criticized Obama At A Debate. The Daily Herald reported, "Recent campaign mailers sent by Democrat Senate hopeful Blair Hull accuse Barack Obama of ducking key abortion rights votes in Springfield by voting 'present.' But the head of Illinois Planned Parenthood said Obama's critics are misguided. 'I think it's not well-based,' Pam Sutherland, chief executive and president of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, said of Hull's criticism. 'I think it's somebody who doesn't understand how the legislative process works.' The campaign pieces accuse Obama of failing to stand up for a woman's right to choose because he voted 'present' on legislation that dealt with parental notification of abortions...The mailings, sent to voters in recent days, show a rubber duck above the headline 'He Ducked!'... Hull is not the only candidate to criticize Obama's voting record. Cook County Treasurer Maria Pappas has offered similar criticism at recent debates."

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/20/fact_check_present_votes_are_a.php


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
21. He madea total of 4000 votes in the Illinois legislature
Will you ever talk about any of the other ones? Do you know any of the other ones? Do you know Hillary's votes in the Senate? Do you even know Hillary's positions on issues?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Sure--as soon as Obama talks about the thousands of votes Hillary and Edwards cast
The fucker didn't care about those when he swift boated them by doing what he cried about on Monday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nailzberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. The PP strategy was unusual. Normally a present vote indicates conflict with the bill's constructio
Overwhelmingly supported bills usually are rushed through committee and hit the floor for a vote. In such haste, the bill can sometimes contain a portion in conflict with th IL Constitution or existing law.
Understand, a heavily contested bill would have been through the meatgrinder back and forth, and wouldn't make it to the floor with such errors.

When a Senator in the IL General Assembly recognizes such an error that may prevent the bill from standing up to judicial scrutiny, they use a present vote to recognize that work needs to continue on the bill's construction.

The bill is passed to the governor's desk, where that legislator then works with the Governor's legislative staff to hammer out the rough spot, and the governor can then sign the bill attaching an Amendatory veto. The bill then returns to the Assembly for the fall veto session, where the governor's veto can be stricken by 3/5ths vote.

So when Obama says that mostly these present votes indicate a problem in constitutionality or still needed work, this is how it happens.

The gun vote, for instance, was voted on present by several senators, who then encouraged Governor Jim Edgar to amend the bill to bring it in line with the recently overhauled juvenile criminal code. The age to be tried as an adult was raised from 15 to 16 in the bill, resolving the legislative conflict, and the bill passed into law.

The sex shop bill represented the General Assembly overriding home rule municipalities and their ability to determine their own zoning laws. The bill failed to pass, a bit that Fact Hub conveniently misreported until an alert reader noticed the same error in the NYT article and contacted the paper's editors.

And Illinois NOW did not endorse Obama in 2004 because among the primary candidates, three were female. When they voice concern when endorsing Lisa Madigan for IL Attorney General despite her voting present on those Planned Parenthood bills. And I'm sure someone else will post that video of the IL NOW president from that time period explaining her decision to dump Hillary over this distortion.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. The IL NOW still supports Hillary. The woman who made the video was the Chicago area officer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nailzberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. IL NOW may want to ask Hillary where she was when the Aurora PP clinic was brought to the courts.
Barack Obama was the only presidential candidate that spoke out to support the clinic's opening while the right to life lobby was seeking to shut it down. It made national news, not just a local issue.

The thing is, Illinois NOW and Chicago NOW have a history of avoiding pro-choice male candidates if they have a pro-choice female to support. And that is their right as a women's organization.

But I question why NOW claims Obama was on the wrong side of these votes, all while standing by their endorsement of Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, who was co-conspirator with Obama on all those Planned Parenthood "present" votes. Matter of fact, Lisa Madigan is less pro-choice than Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I was just providing a correction to your very thorough post
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nailzberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Thanks for correcting me. You are correct. I did make the jump from IL to Chicago.
My Chicago-centric views always got me in trouble when I lived in Springfield.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. No problem. I'm really trying to get the gist of the differences between
NOW in Chicago when Lorna Howard was in charge, and the view of the statewide leadership. I was reasearching last night, trying to figure out what the disconnect was, so I noticed the difference in your post.

I LOVE Chicago. I can understand someone having a Chicago-centric POV. Great city! :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC