If this poll is correct, DU is starting to dislike Bill Clinton more and more...

[Bicoastal]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4185489&mesg_id=4185489

(ON EDIT--fixed link.)

Honestly, it has nothing to do with the primary either, except for the fact that his wife, Hillary Clinton, is a candidate. It has to do with how you and I will feel about Bill Clinton, OUR former president, after the election is over.

Fact is, although I'm not the world's biggest Hillary fan, I now officially like her better than her husband. Much better.

I am willing to swear on a stack of bibles, or take a polygraph if I have to--I was once one of his greatest fans. I still was, all throughout most of the Bush years. Now I'm completely disgusted by what he's done with his legacy and influence as Ex-president. Would FDR have done this? Would Carter? We can dispute the veracity of his Obama comments all day, but the very fact that he chose to not only join in the mud-slinging but somewhere along the line elected to become the LEAD mud-slinger in his wife's campaign...just no words. It was always his choice to stay a relatively benign, positive figure on the campaign, and he instead chose to wade into the swamp, red-faced and belligerent, to try and make a fellow Democrat look bad.

Why, Bill Clinton? WHY?

[panader0]

1. Billary is the combo candidate n/t

I'm losing respect for him too.

[niceypoo]

23. Isnt "billary" a republican talking point from the 90s?

Nice bandwagon you hopped on there...

[CyberPieHole]

33. Barack Hussein Obama lost my respect when he pandered to the gay~hating bigots.

[hollowdweller]

35. Yeah "Don't ask don't tell" was such a great move forward

Gays in the military wasn't worth expending the political capital on but NAFTA was!

[damntexdem]

2. Bill has earned it.

I never really liked him, but I voted for him, thought he was a decent president.

I never thought he was really a decent human being, think so less now.

However, he WAS and maybe still is good on issues of race.

[TwilightZone]

3. I don't think that it proves much of anything.

1) DUers have been messing with DU polls as long as DU has had them.

2) Many, many DUers have *always* been extremely critical of Bill Clinton. It's impossible to be "more negative" if the respect level was already zero.

3) Many who dislike Hillary are going to automatically choose the "more negative" option.

And, let's be clear - all of this criticism of Clinton has very little to do with his presidency, and everything to do with the next one.

[Bicoastal]

7. Well, we SHOULD criticize both of them, not just one or the other...

since THIS, among other things, suggests that Hillary IS running on her Husband's successes while simultaneously trying to absolve herself of responsibility in his mistakes and failures.

[TwilightZone]

10. I wasn't arguing that we shouldn't criticize anyone.

I was arguing your assertion that DU is liking Bill Clinton less and less.

He's never been popular here, and many people have been very open - for years - about their intense dislike for him. DUers blame him for everything and have been doing so since Gore lost to Bush. I see some of the same people posting the same crap they've been posting for seven years. They only recently dragged it out for an encore.

If one's respect level for him was already zero, it can't drop. That's my point.

That being said, all of this crap about Bill has nothing to do with Bill. This stuff is only a topic of conversation because his wife is running for president. It's called guilt by association.

[Bicoastal]

12. Point taken. But I'm willing to bet there ARE plenty of people like me...

...not just here, but all across the country, who used to be Clinton-fans but are now disgusted by his recent behavior.

I'm concerned about the GE, at this point...and it's a valid question to ask--"Who has John McCain Ever Swiftboated?" He's not a better person OR better candidate, but right now, out of him and the Clintons, he's running the cleaner, less-strident, less-vicious campaign.

If Hillary was smart, she'd banish Bill to the sidelines NOW.

[TwilightZone]

13. Why are you surprised?

This is politics. Every election cycle is just like this. Every primary season is a war - in '04, the Dean/Clark war was a particularly nasty one, and half a dozen candidates were calling each other Republicans and accusing each other of everything short of murder.

The '84 campaign was almost exactly like the current one. Mondale and Jesse Jackson waged a very, very similar battle for the nomination, and nearly every accusation we're hearing now had a precedent moment in that very campaign. From BOTH sides.

I'm simply amazed at how many people can only see one side of the primary story. Our side is pure; the other side is pure evil.

I hate to tell you this, but all sides pull the same crap, all sides obfuscate and flat-out lie, and all sides overexaggerate absolutely everything that happens in the campaign. No one is immune.

That is particularly evident with the Obama/Clinton situation, because both sides are pulling the exact same crap. Their campaigns are almost mirror images of each other, which is why I find it so amusing when one side or the other tries to claim how above-board they are.

The perfect example: they both just withdrew their negative SC ads at almost exactly the same time.

[Bicoastal]

14. If I felt that Obama and Hillary went negative at exact same time, I'd go with Edwards...

...but from where I sat, Hillary played nice until she lost Iowa, then sic'ed Bill and all sorts of misinformation on Obama's campaign in NH.

Obama's had no choice but to play defensively, and then offensively as the stakes got higher, and they've been at it ever since.

I don't always like where Obama or Hillary's supporters go, but I am not willing to write off both of them and throw the baby out with the bath water. The fact is, Obama ran the better, cleaner campaign going into Iowa--things have been deteriorating since then, but it's not entirely his fault.

All my opinion, once again.

[TwilightZone]

18. You apparently didn't watch the first few debates.

Obama went negative well before Hillary did. He was already attacking her in the very first debates, simply out of necessity - she had a huge lead. I wouldn't have expected otherwise.

Everyone seems to have amnesia about everything before Iowa. Hillary was able to "play nice" until Iowa largely because of the big lead. She spent most of the early debates attacking George Bush and Dick Cheney. So much so that people accused her of running a general election campaign instead of a primary one and acting like the presumptive nominee. Edwards and Obama spent much of their time attacking Hillary.

So, if you're going to base your support on who went negative last, you should already be at Edwards.

But, wait. Many have claimed that he's gone negative, as well. He was accused of attacking both Hillary and Barack (by their supporters) in the past few debates.

That leaves you with...nobody.

Politics is all about perspective. We see what we want to see, and we ignore what we don't.

[Bicoastal]

21. Look, I'll be the first to say that all 3 are strong candidates, and nobody's pushover.

I never WANTED to start disliking Bill Clinton, it just happened. Perhaps I do just see what I want to see, but my opinion of Hillary is not that she's a terrible vile monster--just not what's best for the country.

(In answer to who went negative first--the correct answer is Mike Gravel! "Some of these people up here FRIGHTEN me!")

I can't tell--who are you supporting?

[liberalnurse]

25. Obama is a republican plant!

He is now bought and paid for by the rich Middle Eastern Oil Cartel's and the New World Order!

[Bicoastal]

26. The very fact that I took your post seriously for about 5 seconds...

....says something about how ugly it's been 'round here for the last month.

[liberalnurse]

27. You sure bring out the best of DU'ers these days....

That said.......you really need to own your flame bait. I may have to get frisky and trumpt your trash if you don't.

Just Google Obama and the New World Order.....pages and pages and pages.....and video's and links.....

O8)

[Bicoastal]

28. What do you think I should be doing better on DU?

Seriously, I wanna know. I wanna be the best I can be! :hi:

[liberalnurse]

30. Anytime..............

[Bicoastal]

31. You are clearly insane...

...but that's how I like them! :hi:

[liberalnurse]

32. I know...............

and that's the view from my best side.O8)

[sniffa]

4. This poll was also done yesterday.

I'll post the same response I did on that thread.

I'm not one of the flowering over Big Dog people, but by the end of his 2nd term I had come to respect him and appreciate him. That being said, my opinion of him dropped here and there based on certain things, most importantly, his book, which I thought was crap, and brought him down in my eyes. However, I still held him in good regard.

Now, that he's playing the attack dog, and using his position to add more weight to the stuff that spews from his mouth, I don't think I can ever hold him in high regard again. It was bad enough that I could sorta forgive him for Rwanda, and bombing the shit out of the Balkans.

Oh, and thanks to him for sticking up for the Dem party, and fighting for John Kerry, and attacking the Repubs with the same vigor he has recently for his wife, whom he would be backing if she weren't his wife.

And yes, he's directly responsible for the 2000 election. Yes, Gore ran away from him, but Bush ran on Clinton's blowjob, and that's where we're at now.

I can't wait to see another thread about how great, and genius that is the Big Dog from some of the more laughable DUers.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4167819&mesg_id=4176167

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. I never did like the Clintons. They're just adding reasons at this point.

[ronnykmarshall]

6. A DU poll?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[IndianaJones]

8. If this poll was correct Kucinich would be the nominee. nt.

[tridim]

9. Bill really started to annoy me after he said "How dare you!"..

to that guy who asked him a perfectly valid question about the events on 9/11. I think it all started after he began hanging out with Poppy, which BTW I still don't understand. I mean, WTF Bill?

I should say that I never loved WJC, but I did LIKE him and I thought he was a pretty damn good conservative Democratic president. Now, I'm not so sure. Rest assured, how I feel about WJC has nothing to do with his wife.

[FiveGoodMen]

22. Me, too!

"How dare you" question whether the Admin that killed a million Iraqis and more US citizens than were in the towers -- and then refused to let anyone look into the matter -- How dare we suggest that those monsters had something to do with 911?

How dare we?

Fuck you, Bill.

(I used to like him a lot.)

P.S. I'm an American, Bill. That's how I fuckin' dare!

[liberalnurse]

29. You are so full of dung.......................

Time for you to start back on the colonic's.

[liberalnurse]

11. The current census of DU now

is made up of Trolls and Moles....most Regular DU'er have vacated until After the Primaries. I'm rarely popping in as I hate DU these days.

[Cameron27]

20. Same here,

I'm logging in less and less, it's just not worth wading through all the ugliness to try to make a point.

[sandyj999]

15. I Don't Like What He's Doing

And he should butt out. And I don't appreciate her letting him do it. Rather disappointing.

[flordehinojos]

16. not me ... i love bill clinton, i like what he is doing. obama is throwing mud at them, obama is

using the press to do so ... and bill is wanting to set the record straight while the press presses on on their attacks against the clintons and fighting the fight for obama who only has to squeal and whine about the clintons are doing to him--whether true, or not.

[Nimrod2005]

17. Yes of course, flithy bastards, both of them...IMHO.

[ozone_man]

19. I think most of us wised up to the Clintons by 2000.

I voted for him twice, but not understanding at the time what the DLC was or that he wasn't a liberal at all. I didn't understand what NAFTA meant until jobs started leaving the country and Mexicans started fleeing across the border in response to being flooded by cheap, heavily-subsidized US corn. They could not live off their land anymore.

In 2008 we get to look forward to another four to eight years of their corporate economy. I say enough is enough. Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton is too much.

Aside from their politics, I don't care for the Clintons' personalities. Bill or Hillary represent personal as well as corporate sleaze. Time for a change.

[CorpGovActivist]

24. KNPnta

[CyberPieHole]

34. If America reflected DU, Kucinich would be the top contender...instead he dropped out of the race...

so much for DU reflecting America.

[Mark E. Smith]

36. Nah

It's just that those who like Bill Clinton rarely come here anymore.

What's the point?