"not affiliated with Hillary Clinton for President"

[ProSense]

Just campaigning in Florida for Hillary with Hillary:

[no name no slogan]

1. It starts after the polls close, though

I don't think you can legally campaign for an election that's already happened :shrug:

[ProSense]

2. It's advertising that being distributed prior to the election. n/t

[Cant trust em]

6. Someone is going to have to rule on this

I don't know what might have jurisdiction, but this seems to be on a borderline of something unethical. There's nothing for her to lose by doing this. She already isn't getting delegates so she must be thinking "fuck it".

[lurky]

12. The FEC has been effectively shut down

is my understanding. Since there are no cops, I'm guessing there will be a lot of people pushing the limits.

[rinsd]

20. FEC has no say on this. Only the DNC does.

[Windy]

16. Borderline? No, its HIGHLY unethical and a attempted power grab...

I can't cast my vote for this woman as a result of her continued underhandedness!!!!

[Cant trust em]

25. There is an argument of technicality to be made

I'm not buying it but I'm sure that someone would try to pull a "No it's not campaigning, the event is after the primary" schtick.

[Texas_Kat]

15. So how does that compare to Obama commercials

being beamed into Florida homes for the last 2 week?

[Labors of Hercules]

17. They are nationwide spots.

And they couldn't pull them per the contract.

[rinsd]

23. They knew they were gonna a run in FL when they signed the contract.

They could have waited until Jan 30th to do that cable ad buy.

They knew exactly what they were doing.

[Labors of Hercules]

34. How were they supposed to know to wait?

They went into extensive negotiations and the networks refused to pull the ads.

[rinsd]

35. Simple schedule the ad buy after FL.

You think these ads were contracted months ago?

Not so. They just rolled out this ad buy this month.

[Cant trust em]

24. How does this work?

I haven't seen the commercials or know how this works. Can you shed some light for me?

Thanks.

[Texas_Kat]

26. So he chose not to purchase ads that allowed him to stay within the rules

ok....... but it's never about HIS decisions, is it?

[Jai4WKC08]

31. And even if they didn't know what they were doing

(which I don't happen to believe...)

It's still campaigning. Regardless of the reason, the ads are running. People are hearing them. Their votes are being influenced accordingly. It breaks the agreement and opens the door to any other candidate.

That said, I'm not sure this organization constitutes campaigning BY HILLARY. Fact is, a lot of people in Florida are mad as hell that their primary votes don't count. If some of them are getting together to try to make them count, for the candidate of their choice, how can anyone stop them?

No matter what the DNC (or GWB) might think, there's still some freedom of speech and assembly in this country.

[CoffeeCat]

7. Yes, but those flyers are being disseminated BEFORE...

the election.

Those flyers suggest that voting will count in the primaries. The DNC
has decided it won't.

Go ahead, and stick up for Hillary's bizarre behavior.

When it comes back to bite her in the ass, I'll remind you that
you did just that--even as she tries to dig herself out of this mess that
she's creating for herself.

[no name no slogan]

18. I'm not sticking up for Hillary

I'm just saying that if the election itself is over, her appearance is not "campaigning", per se. It may be underhanded, but it looks like it follows the letter of the law.

[CoffeeCat]

28. But the FLYER is "campaigning"...

Campaigning doesn't consist only of appearances.

You can distribute flyers, canvas door to door, call supporters
and ask them to go out and vote for you.

I was under the assumption that all campaigning was off the table.

Am I wrong?

[no name no slogan]

32. Well, it doesn't say "Vote for Hillary"

It only says that she's having an election party after the FL primary is over.

I would assume that since it doesn't solicit for a vote or support, it isn't considered campaigning. But I'm not the FEC, or a judge in FL, either.

[asdjrocky]

11. Lee mercer could. (all three)

[no name no slogan]

19. I blame the hotwire

National and International

:rofl:

[asdjrocky]

36. Or clenis or Jeb.

[CoffeeCat]

3. I have to ask a question here...

Is Hillary Clinton a total dumbfuck, or does she just assume that
Americans are?

Has she even thought about the possibility that someone else might
win this election?

What if that would happen?

Putting all of that aside, her pathetic attempt at orchestrating a PR
event to tout her "win" in an election that was clearly not representative
of anything---is so pitiful. She looks desperate!

This is really weird...just bizarre.

[DJ13]

10. "Is Hillary Clinton a total dumbfuck, or does she just assume that.."

"....Americans are?"

Hillary is devious, not a dumbfuck.

And yes she (and Bill) thinks Americans are dumbfucks.

[CoffeeCat]

21. Well, I'm questioning her...

...dumbfuckedness--because you can't do what she wants to do--without
causing your entire political party to collapse onto you--revealing
what a white-hot weasel you are on the national stage.

If she's trying to declare "victory" in a PR stunt, claiming a
"tremendous win" when there was no legitimate election--then she
is a dumbfuck.

OR...

If this is an attempt to get those delegates seated--even though millions
of Florida Dems stayed home and didn't vote--because the entire electorate
was operating under the assumption that their votes would not count---then
she's also a dumbfuck.

She is committing political suicide either way.

The PR stunt will make her look desperate on the national stage.

Insisting that deals be broken and an illegitimate election be counted--will
make her look like a sociopathic, calculating low life on the national stage.

In this case, it's a lose-lose for her. I do think she's acting like a
dumbfuck when it relates to this issue.

[JackORoses]

4. You're fooling nobody, Hillary. Least of all, Howard Dean.

[AtomicKitten]

27. Dean is going to spank her for this BS.

[Dogmudgeon]

5. Of course, Obama has not done anything like this

He's only been on TV.

But that was O.K.

--p!

[CoffeeCat]

13. Hillary suggests that she will have...

..."a tremendous victory in Florida", which is blatant and deliberate mis-characterization
of the election in Florida.

There can be no "victory" because there is no legitimate, representative election--because the
entire Florida Dem electorate believes that their delegates will not be seated.

Many Florida Dem voters may show up to vote, but that's not a legitimate election.

Hillary's "victory" will be proclaimed at a PT Barnum-style PR stunt, but it will be
a joke, and she will look like a desperate freak.

I've only had 15 years of experience as a Director of Media Relations, so maybe I'm
not understanding how making a total fool of yourself on the national stage--is helpful
at all to a presidential candidate.

[rinsd]

22. "entire Florida Dem electorate believes that their delegates will not be seated. "

"I've only had 15 years of experience as a Director of Media Relations, so maybe I'm
not understanding how making a total fool of yourself on the national stage--is helpful
at all to a presidential candidate."

In your 15 year, did you ever learn not to ascribe your personal feelings to large groups of people?

[CoffeeCat]

30. You're a piece of work...

Everyone in Florida understands very well--per the DNC rules--that the Florida
delegates will not count.

It's been said over and over. It's a done deal.

Sure, there may be some Floridians who want their votes to count. If I
was in Florida, I would probably still vote--simply out of protest. My husband,
on the other hand would say "screw it" and stay home. My grandmother would want
to vote, but she would not go through getting to the polls, if she had been told that
the delegates would not be seated.

So yes, I understand that some Floridians may vote out of protest, or they may
vote symbolically.

The point is--this is not a legitimate election because the entire electorate was
told that their votes would not count. It skewed the results.

Are you actually suggesting that the DNC ruling---mandating that Florida votes won't count because
their delegates won't be seated---won't impact voter behavior in any way?????

[rinsd]

33. You sure like your absolute statements.

Something else I would think someone with your vast experience in media relations would avoid.

"Sure, there may be some Floridians who want their votes to count. If I
was in Florida, I would probably still vote--simply out of protest. My husband,
on the other hand would say "screw it" and stay home. My grandmother would want
to vote, but she would not go through getting to the polls, if she had been told that
the delegates would not be seated."

Because there's nothing else on the ballot? Only a primary vote counts?

Dems are gonna set turnout records despite there not being any campaigning because of a property tax issue on the ballot.

"
Are you actually suggesting that the DNC ruling---mandating that Florida votes won't count because
their delegates won't be seated---won't impact voter behavior in any way"

Like I said so far it looks like it will be a record turnout thanks to a property tax thing on the ballot.

But its nice to know that Obama's campaign is doing its damndest to depress Democratic turnout by telling them their votes are meaningless.

[Dogmudgeon]

37. A Director of Media Relations? A *Professional*!

So, you do this for a living, right?

I've only had 15 years of experience as a Director of Media Relations ...

I hope you don't plan on whining about "paid shills".

Do you work for the Obama campaign? There's nothing wrong with doing that, but you should at least let us know if you're a hawk among sparrows.

... so maybe I'm not understanding how making a total fool of yourself on the national stage--is helpful at all to a presidential candidate.

It's easy. You could be a partisan whose passions have overcome your ability to think clearly. You could be so overdriven that you'd see malice in a campaign stop at a county office to say thank-you and to rally the troops.

And your co-partisans are still avoiding all talk of BHO's policy and proposals to concentrate on how awful Hillary and Bill are.

Foolishness is as foolishness does.

--p!

[CoffeeCat]

38. Just to set the record straight...

I am not a "hawk among sparrows" as you mentioned.

I worked in PR for a high-tech company and for government organizations (NASA, DOE).
I quit to be a stay-at-home mom. I still dabble, with freelance writing and occasional
consulting, but I have never worked for a political campaign or any politician.

I wasn't a "paid shill" either. I primarily developed PR campaigns for new technologies--mainly
3D visualization software and 3D animation/interactive applications in the pharmaceutical, biotechnology,
litigation, educational and entertainment arenas.

So, no I don't work for the Obama campaign, but I did serve as one of his volunteer precinct captains
in Iowa.

[rinsd]

8. Yes like Obama and his "national" TV ads that just happen to reach 7M FL homes.

[featherman]

9. This whole thing is a mess... shame on the DNC and the FL DEMS

for not working something out. Florida SHOULD be a fully contested primary

[demo dutch]

29. Don't blame me, I didn't ask the FL party idiots to move the primary

It should be about the voters, period! I know several people that didn't even bother to vote today, it's just terrible!

[KennedyGuy]

14. what about those ads Obama is running in Florida?