Hillary has been fighting for government transparency longer then Obama has been in the Senate

[agdlp]

There are some DU users that are advocating for Obama because of his stand on transparency.
But with all due respect...Hillary has been fighting for government transparency longer then Obama has been in the Senate..This is some of her statemensts from 2003:

-------------------

Remarks of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton
New American Strategies for Security and Peace Conference
Washington, D.C.
October 29, 2003

-------------------


"The issue I intend to explore briefly this morning is whether we are applying the fundamental principles of democracy, rule of law, transparency and accountability, informed consent, not only to what we do at home, but to what we do in the world"

"If we are to lead this world commensurate with the power we possess, the ideals we proclaim, into a free and hopefully democratic future, we must first be consistent in the principles we champion and pursue. Nowhere is this more important than in the transparency of government decisions."

"Without such transparency, how can leaders be accountable? How can people be informed? And without such transparency, the openness and information that is required for the lifeblood of a democracy to be healthy and strong, the pillars of that democracy are shaken."

"Since September 11th, this question about transparency, about adequacy of information and informed consent of the public has become even more salient. The war on terror will be, as it is now, being fought in the darkness, outside the public limelight, new doctrines of pre-emption and a commitment to secrecy raise profound questions about the democratic oversight of decisions effecting war and peace."

"The lack of transparency on the part of the Bush administration has forced Governor King, former Republican Governor of New Jersey, to threaten subpoenas. This should not be happening."

------------------

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/kfiles/b11179.html

[rodeodance]

1. thanks very much

[agdlp]

3. Your welcome...

:-)

[rodeodance]

21. keep up the good work.

I am not much of googler, so I do appreciate your work.

[sandnsea]

2. She voted against an Office of Public Integrity

One of only 30 Senators to oppose it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/28/AR2006032801586.html

He's actually got legislation passed. Her statements, as usual, don't mean squat.

[agdlp]

5. Senior Democrat: New office would "duplicate the ethics commite and would "waste resources."

Thats why she voted against it.

So long for populistic votes :-)

[blm]

11. Do you believe Bush when he says he's for Clean Air? I'm sure you can find a transcript

to back him up on that, too.

[rodeodance]

25. Many titles are deceptive--you can throw them all day--I and others know that. You are off topic.

[blm]

67. No, I'm not. Transparency in government and Open Government are MY issues.

I know the Clintons are closed government protectors and their records PROVE it. And any time Hillary wants to PLAY a role for the gullible she will make a small gesture or statement that will make her SOUND like she's for something she has a bad record on - EXACTLY the way Bush does when he talks about an issue he knows he sucks on, like Clean Air.

[sandnsea]

13. Because the ethics committee worked so well

No, that was specifically to keep the Congressional dirt outside the eyes of the public. The House didn't support outside oversight either.

[agdlp]

20. Ethics laws are important, but require bipartisan work, not just "left wings” of your party

One of the most important issues for the "other" side is restoring trust in government. Its not just the left wing of the dem party that will have their say.

[sandnsea]

46. That had bipartisan support from all the clean govt people

Chafee, Collins, Feingold, Grassley, Kennedy, Kerry, McCain, Snowe. That wasn't remotely a "left wing" bill.

[KittyWampus]

4. Then why won't the Clintons release their 2006 tax returns? Obama did.

[agdlp]

9. I guess thats why he got a SLUMLOARD to pay for his house ?

truth sucks !

[blm]

15. Clinton had BCCI criminal Jackson Stephens bankrolling his political career

in Arkansas and his WH campaign.

Jackson Stephens staked WalMart.

Jackson Stephens bankrolled Poppy Bush's political career.

Jackson Stephens brought BCCI into this country with Poppy Bush.

What happened to the all the serious matters in the BCCI report that was handed to Bill Clinton when he took office?

The deep-sixing of all those matters led directly to the growing global terrorist networks, Bush2's presidency, 9-11 events, and this Iraq war.

It will further be the basis for war with Iran.

But let's all get exercised about a local Chicago player because TeamClinton needs more Democrats to remain STUPEFIED just like Bushes do with their gullible wing of the GOP..

[LittleClarkie]

43. What did that do to his relationship with Kerry?

I wonder how Kerry felt, knowing Clinton's connection.

[KittyWampus]

16. Oddly, at least we are privy to the Obama family finances. The Clintons are hiding something.

Money from uranium mine quid pro quos?

[fenriswolf]

49. so does your only talking point.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. Hillary held her healthcare meetings in secret, locked out public interest groups and was sued and

lost for trying to conduct the failed exercise in secret.

Some advocate of transparancy. Ha!

[AtomicKitten]

10. She backed up her secrecy with litigation?

If THAT doesn't scare the bejeezus out of Democrats, we should officially be declared DOA.

Thanks for your post.

[agdlp]

17. She has experience negotiating - Deliberation and Compromise sometimes require no media exposure

Anyone having been involved in any negotiation and bipartisan work knows that sometimes no media exposure under deliberation is critical to any success.

She intend to open up for all those meetings that are practical(and are no threat for national security and/or progress), and for those who are not, records must be accessible to the public as soon as possible, and the government officials must be held accountable for their work.

[agdlp]

18. If Hillary has done any good work -We must attack her - Where is the respect for a fellow Democrat ?

Your statements are so biased, and frankly, where is the respect for a fellow Democrat?

[blm]

19. Where's the respect Clintons showed for all the years of work Kerry and Gonzalez did

when they uncovered IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA drugrunning?

The only respecvt they showed was for the secrecy and privilege of for Poppy Bush and his powerful cronies and operatives involved in those illegal operations.


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html




The ONLY reason Bush2 was even able to mount a presidential campaign in the 90s was because they KNEW Bill Clinton was protecting the secrecy and privilege of Bush1 and his powerful cronies involved in those illegal operations.

[agdlp]

24. Defending National Security ARE MORE IMPORTANT than transparancy !

When sworn in, the President must swear to upheld the US constitution and defend US against foreign and domestic threats.

Sure, I don’t defend the many shady deals that been going on. But you should remember that the US has enemies all over the place. It’s not just to open up the records for transparency advocates to see.

[blm]

31. Except the documents kept hidden were about CRIMINALITY - crimes against constitution.

And the secrecy and privilege Clinton sided with is what LED to the growth in global terrorism.

It LED to 9-11.

It LED to this Iraq war.

It is LEADING us into war with Iran.

Had the BCCI report been dealt with fully there would have been NO AQ Khan network freely proliferating nuclear technology.

Fer chrissakes, what kind of history have you learned over the last 30 years?

[AtomicKitten]

32. There is NOTHING more important than transparency and accountability.

Arguing national security to prevent transparency is flat-out wrong.

[blm]

39. And EXACTLY what Bush sycophants argue to defend THEIR criminality.

.

[AtomicKitten]

44. eerily similar .... :(

[rodeodance]

27. HATE knows no bounds for so many.

[AtomicKitten]

35. You are enabling secrecy by attacking the virtues of accountability and transparency.

There is nothing hateful about holding government accountable.

Secrecy is a cancer on democracy.

[rodeodance]

37. I was referring --the attach mode of people toward HIll even if good works--but you knew that didn't

you!!

[John Q. Citizen]

53. Tell it to Dick Cheney. Heathcare isn't about national security? I bet Hill agrees with you.

Government in secret is wrong.

Hill was sued and lost. Know why she lost? Cause it was wrong!

[rodeodance]

63. dang, She of had Dick cheneys lawyers!

sarcasm button on.

[MH1]

66. "no media exposure" = "working for transparency"???

:eyes:

I notice you didn't discuss this topic on the thread that asked for Hillary's and Obama's positions and records...where several of us posted information about Obama's good record, and his endorsements from people like Lessig.

[BootinUp]

60. No she did not lose, according to the wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Clinton_health_care_plan

Litigation
The First Lady's role in the secret proceedings of the Health Care Task Force also sparked litigation in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit, in relation to the Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA) which requires openness in government. The Clinton White House argued that the Recommendation Clause in Article II of the U.S. Constitution would make it unconstitutional to apply the procedural requirements of FACA to Hillary's participation in the meetings of the Task Force. Some constitutional experts argued to the court that such a legal theory was not supported by the text, history, or structure of the Constitution.<14>Ultimately, Hillary Clinton won the litigation when the D.C. Circuit ruled narrowly that the First Lady of the United States can be deemed a government official (and not a mere private citizen) for purposes of not having to comply with the procedural requirements of FACA.<15>

In 1993, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, along with several other groups, filed a lawsuit against Hillary Clinton and Donna Shalala‎ over closed-door meetings related to the health care plan. The AAPS sued to gain access to the list of members of the task force. Judge Royce C. Lamberth found in favor of the plaintiffs and awarded $285,864 to the AAPS for legal costs; Lamberth also harshly criticized the Clinton administration and Clinton aide Ira Magaziner in his ruling.<16> Subsequently, a federal appeals court overturned the award and the initial findings on the basis that Magaziner and the administration had not acted in bad faith.<17>

--------------
This wiki page is interesting reading btw.

[Bluerthanblue]

7. are you too young to remember the Clinton Health Care plan ?

I'm not-

While the republicans used it to destroy any hope for a real health care initiative, Hillary made some big mistakes by demanding such secrecy.

Cheney did the same with the energy crap- and skated.


:shrug:

peace~


edit for spelling

[blm]

8. Clintons publicly support open government the way Bush publicly supports Clean Air

HAHAHAHAH...yeah, we saw how Bill facilitated the ongoing investigations into IranContra, Iraqgate and CIA drugrunning. HE DIDN'T.

Bill Clinton deep-sixed all the serious matters outstanding in the BCCI report he was handed when he took office.

He would NOT facilitate access to documents that had long been stonewalled by Reagan and Bush administrations.

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING when you try to push the idea that Hillary is FOR open government.

Clintons talk about transparency out loud the same way Bush talks out loud about 'clean air' initiatives.

How DUMB do you think we all are? Clintons believe most Democrats are as stupid and gullible as Bushes believe many Republicans are - and that NOT ENOUGH Democrats are even familiar with the FACTS on record, so they have a base of protection - just like Bushes get from their gullible wing.

Don't even TRY to pretend with those of us quite familiar with the deep-sixing of IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA Drugrunning matters that were still current when Bill took office - and current again since 9-11, Iraq war and future war with Iran.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html



The ONLY reason Bush2 was even able to mount a presidential campaign in the 90s was because they KNEW Bill Clinton was protecting the secrecy and privilege of Bush1 and his powerful cronies involved in those illegal operations.

[rodeodance]

30. OH blm--you are repeating yourself --i see your silly post upstream

[blm]

34. Truth doesn't change and SHOULD be repeated when lies are repeated. Don't you think?

Or do you think lies should get all the benefit of repetition while truth should be meted out in small doses?

[rodeodance]

38. That was not my point.--

[Moochy]

55. Kick for the truth

[Armstead]

12. She should fight for Econoimic Transparency

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4333840

[DJ13]

14. LOL

Anyone else remember the "missing" Hillary records sought for two years by the FBI that were "found" "just by accident" in a bedroom closet of the WH during Bill's first term?

Transparency, yeah right!

:rofl:

[Occam Bandage]

22. Strike "for" - ed.

Most of us remember the Clinton White House.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

23. Right. And she and Bill won't release WH docs on her role in his term.

[agdlp]

26. Like it or not - Release of those documents are regulated by law

You lost that argument :-)

http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/

[rodeodance]

29. Everytime they put up a post--they are more Bush-like in nature than I had thought.

[blm]

36. Bush - secrecy and privilege. Clintons - secrecy and privilege.

Secrecy and privilege is what I fight as an open government Democrat who believes in accountability.

Why don't you?

[rodeodance]

40. this thread is not about secretcy in gov. Its about hate toward

clinton. plain and simple.

[blm]

48. It's about hate FOR protection of secrecy and privilege. Anyone with an ounce

of comprehension skills can see that.

The thread is about TRANSPARENY in government. What is the EXACT OPPOSITE of TRANSPARENCY in government, rodeo? Secrecy and privilege of CLOSED government.

Who has already PROVEN they will side with secrecy and privilege OVER the transparency of open government? Clintons.

Who has a chance to HONESTLY reset this nation's course through a commitment to open government? Obama.

He deserves a CHANCE to do what the Clintons PROVED they would NOT when given that hope.

[rodeodance]

57. Well, I believe in giving Hillary a chance--as the Pres, not as a Sen or First lady. Nough said.

He deserves a CHANCE to do what the Clintons PROVED they would NOT when given that hope.

[blm]

61. It's absurd to think she'll open books closed by Bill because NOW Bill's protection

would become more widely known and his actions deemed complicit. He did it on EVERY ISSUE that should have put that crew in jail at any point during the 90s.

Your need to have FAITH in those proven complicit already is going to seriously interfere with this nation's opportunity to have a government that is truly accountable to the CITIZENS like me who have worked HARD to press for open government.

[cooolandrew]

28. Barack passed the bieggest reforms in campaigning funding in congressional history.

[rodeodance]

33. bieggest- ok

Barack passed the bieggest reforms in campaigning funding in congressional history.

[burythehatchet]

59. That post, right there, is the textbook example of why so many people hate Hillary and her

support'hoes. Poster makes a statement of fact. Poster mis-spells a word. Hillaroid ignores the content of the statement, chooses instead to make fun of the mis-spelled word. Pathetic, ignorant, moronic, cultists.

[rodeodance]

64. oh lighten up.

[agdlp]

47. He had lobbyists leading the SC campaign and took money from Yucca Nuclear Power Lobby

Illinois state Senator Barack Obama had two opportunities to engage in a discussion on SR0342, but he remained silent. And he remained silent until 30 OCT 2007, when for political reasons the aspiring President informed Senators Boxer and Reid that he believed "the time for debate on this site is over."

"But what of the two opportunities he had to debate the Yucca Mountain resolution he and the Illinois state Senate adopted with unanimous consent in April 2002? "

"Was not April 2002 the time for vigorous debate on President Bush's recommendation? Hillary Clinton certainly thought so."

"Obama, on the other hand, did not, for it was not politically expedient for the Illinois state Senator to oppose George Bush and the nuclear energy lobby of Illinois. After all, his bid for the Presidency was not yet on the horizon. And besides, Obama would have to rely on Illinois special interests such as Exelon, the atomic energy giant that donated $74,350 to Obama in 2004, in order to raise funds for his US Senate bid. But even more troubling is the $181,000 Obama has accepted from Exelon for his Presidential bid."

http://lvrj.com/opinion/7509662.html

How can Obama protect Nevadans from the nuclear power lobby when he is financially beholden to the special interests who desire to dump their radioactive toxic waste at Yucca Mountain?

http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/exeloncampbellaward/

http://mydd.com/story/2008/1/17/222449/626

--------------------------------------------


At a debate Monday, Clinton tried to blunt John Edwards' criticism about lobbyists influencing presidential politics. "But, you know, Barack has a lot of lobbyists who are leading his campaign here in South Carolina," Clinton said.

THE SPIN:

Influence-peddling and lobbying money are recurring themes in the run- up to Saturday's Democrat primary in the state. Edwards is running South Carolina ads noting that Clinton and Obama have taken lobbyist money, while he does not.

THE FACTS:

Obama's campaign announced this month that former South Carolina Gov. Jim Hodges had become a national co-chairman. Hodges' lobbying and consulting is registered to lobby for Hillenbrand Partners, a Chicago- based company that does business with the Federal Home Loan Bank in Atlanta.

Two other South Carolina leaders in Obama's campaign have lobbied in South Carolina. Senior adviser Rick Wade said he last lobbied in 1996. Anton Gunn, Obama's state political director, was a registered lobbyist between 2001 and 2004, according to state Ethics Commission records.

Obama adviser Steve Hildebrand said the campaign has no problem with lobbyists volunteering to work, but no federal lobbyists are on the campaign's payroll and they cannot donate money or collect it from others. "We're not going to prevent people from being volunteers on this campaign," he said. For instance, Hildebrand said he gave up federal lobbying work for an environmental group as a condition of taking his paid staff position.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8UB5P5O0&show_article=1

[robbedvoter]

41. Happy to give it a 5th

[blm]

50. Go ahead. But....do you really believe it?

Then explain how we ended up with Bush2 when all of BushInc should have been in jail by the end of 1994.

[robbedvoter]

51. I do. SCOTUS? MSM? Fraud? You Kerry folk have selective memory on stolen elections

I can see why.

[blm]

56. Really? In 1994 you think Supreme Court kept BushInc out of jail or did Clinton

siding with Bush to protect his secrecy and privilege on all those many criminal matters that were still under the microscope when he took office, keep BushInc out of jail?

Realize this, robbed, Jackson Stephens bankrolled BOTH Poppy Bush AND Bill Clinton's political career.

Jackson Stephens BROUGHT BCCI into this country with Poppy Bush.

Bushies EXPECTED to be impeached after BCCI report came out in Dec 1992 and he ran the worst campaign ever for a sitting president.

BCCI report was deep-sixed after being handed to the new president.

BushInc grew STRONGER in the 90s without the oversight of congress or further investigations into their criminal operations.

BCCI's outstanding matters and criminal activities led directly to 9-11.

[UALRBSofL]

52. It doesn't matter what the Obama supporters say

Distortion of the truth seems to be the theme of his supporters. That said, the MSM is just beginning to uncover Obama's political dealings in Illinois. For the record, Clinton's past has been picked to death by the vultures and nothing is a secret. That said, I have no doubt if Obama is the nominee the vultures will attack him.

[blm]

65. Baloney - Whitewater was a dog and pony show to get into Rose Law Firm and

Arkansas financial institutions so they can be scrubbed clean for Poppy Bush and Jackson Stephens and all the operatives they used.

Whitewater always was just a smokescreen - a smokescreen that got out of hand because of a rabid base that had no idea they were being played and used by their puppetmasters. Just as the Dems who set themselves to defending Clinton so much they never saw how he had been protecting Bush's secrecy and privilege throughout the 90s.

[LittleClarkie]

42. Well, she's been talking about it, anyway

That's all your link shows us.

Show us some examples of where she's fought for it. Legislation and such.

[MH1]

70. Funny how the poster hasn't returned to this thread, huh.

[harun]

45. Fighting for it for that long... has equalled what in terms of results? (n/t)

[ProSense]

54. Completely misleading. She's been fighting for Bush transparency, not the Clintons'

No deadline for Clinton papers release

By ANDREW DeMILLO, Associated Press Writer Wed Jan 30, 5:00 PM ET

LITTLE ROCK - Hillary Rodham Clinton's daily schedules as first lady will be forwarded to former President Clinton by Friday for review, the first of two steps without a fixed time limit before any are released to the public, the National Archives said Wednesday.

Former President Clinton will have 30 days — possibly longer, if he requests an extension — to review the 10,000 pages of his wife's daily schedules before they will be sent to the White House for its review, said Susan Cooper, a spokeswoman for the National Archives. The Bush administration does not have a time limit to review the documents before they can be released, Cooper said.

Last year, Clinton faced criticism from her fellow Democratic presidential rivals over the number of White House documents from her husband's administration that have not been made public.

The daily schedules are currently held at Clinton's library here, which is part of the presidential library system operated by the National Archives.

The stack of schedules "still has two more layers of review to go through," Cooper told The Associated Press on Wednesday. Longtime Clinton adviser Bruce Lindsey will review the documents for Clinton.

Archivists have been sorting through 80 million pages of documents and 20 million e-mails at the library from Bill Clinton's eight years in office, but few records have come out of the library in response to Freedom of Information requests since it began accepting them in January 2006. The library processes requests based on when they were received.

more

Why all the secrecy?

[blm]

58. Clintons have fought Dems to protect Bushes' secrecy and privilege throughout the 90s.

They took the YEARS of work by Kerry, Moakley, and Gonzalez who uncovered serious crimes of office by Reagan and Bush administrations when they esxposed IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA drugrunning.

Clintons came along and sided with protecting secrecy and privilege and gave Open Government the biggest kick to the curb ever from a Democratic president.

[ErnestoG]

62. Except when it came to her IWR vote. She couldn't even be bothered to read the NIE report

Wow, some firebrand for government transparency.

LAUGH.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

68. but nothing has happened despite the fighting for transparency!

Bush and cheney should have been impeached soon after the start of the Iraq war

[blm]

69. Bush1 should've been impeached post-presidency after BCCI report was released.

Instead the Dem president deep-sixed that report and all its outstanding matters, Poppy Bush was protected throughout the 90s, and we ended up with Bush2 when the whole lot of them should have been in JAIL.

Same with all the ongoing IranContra matters.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

It should have been IMPOSSIBLE for another Bush gang to set up in the WH.

[Stephanie]

71. THEN WHY DON'T THEY REVEAL THE NAMES OF THE LIBRARY DONORS?

Why are they keeping that list secret?