Clinton health plan may mean tapping pay - "workers' wages garnisheed" (AP)

[jefferson_dem]

Check out the headline and lede on this AP story.

No joy in Hillaryville...

Clinton health plan may mean tapping pay
By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to have workers' wages garnisheed if they refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.

The New York senator has criticized presidential rival Barack Obama for pushing a health plan that would not require universal coverage. Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed during a television interview, she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."

Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. Under her plan, she said, health care "will be affordable for everyone" because she would limit premium payments "to a low percent of your income."

Clinton also suggested Obama would be more susceptible to Republican attack ads in a general election because he has not been scrutinized for years as she has.

"I've been through the Republican attacks over and over again," she said on ABC's "This Week." When Obama was elected to the Senate from Illinois in 2004, she said, he "didn't face anyone who ran attack ads" comparable to those aimed at her.

Obama countered, saying Republicans and independents would be more inclined to oppose Clinton than him in a general election.

The problem is "not all of Senator Clinton's making," he said, "but I don't think there's any doubt that the Republicans consider her a polarizing figure," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation."

<SNIP>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp;_ylt=Apsy35xy.9Z82PotS7mySe.yFz4D

[CTyankee]

1. It was an inartful term for her to use.

It should be termed as a levy, a taxation for a service which is simply saying "you used the service, here is the bill." We do that now with Medicare part B. If you decline part B and are not paying into another alternate plan, you will be fined a higher cost when you do sign up for part B.

Part B of Medicare is, as you probably know, is paid for out of a "tax" (or a "garnish") on your monthly SS benefit check. That's just the way it is, folks.

[rodeodance]

11. yes, i agree. What her plan really would entail is being shouted out.

[MethuenProgressive]

96. "apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it,"

So what's the problem?

[CTyankee]

117. Nothing is wrong with the concept. I agree with it completely.

I was referring to the choice of words.

But the issue raises another question, which is the fact that this problem will exist if we don't have a mechanism, such as what I described in the administration of the Medicare part B fee, so the government can make up the cost at some point. I don't know how to do this with the program she has presented, altho I like the rest of the program.

[Jed Dilligan]

123. Who decides what people can afford?

[BlackVelvet04]

131. That is something that will be worked out in Congress, I'm sure...

there is no designation at the present time on the health plan analysis website.

[Jed Dilligan]

132. So "moderate" Democrats and Republicans...

Yeah, I'm sure they'll work it out so I get a GREAT deal.

[BlackVelvet04]

146. Who do you suggest decide it if not congress? n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

148. I suggest this plan die the fast death it deserves

because it's the only thing worse than the status quo that I can possibly imagine.

[gasoline highway]

102. Obama = PRO-CHOICE, why make people pay for something they can't afford n/t

[BlackVelvet04]

130. OBAMA PRO-CHOICE UNLESS YOU HAVE CHILDREN.

It is mandated in his plan for parents to carry insurance for the children. If you don't have it for your children you pay a fine but are still without insurance, so the fine is on top of the insurance cost.

[rodeodance]

138. I suspect no one likes to pay for healh insurance but we do when we can

afford it--even if we have to skimp of other things.

[roguevalley]

115. medicare is a screw job. better find a better analogy.

RV, still loathing AARP selling us out.

[Thrill]

2. Terrible News for her going to SUPER TUESDAY

[DB1]

63. Worse news for us Dems if she is nominated. It could cost us the election.

[lvx35]

3. Oh my God, taking money out of people's paychecks, that's almost like...almost like...

A TAX! Heaven forbid! Oh spirit of Reagan, save us all!!!!
;)

Seriously though. How do you, oh my fellow progressives, think that Kucinich, or any hard core progressive would pay for single payer? Taking money out of people's checks as income tax. So how is this any different?

[dkf]

4. Kucinich would tax high income earners. jmo.

[lvx35]

20. Hillary does too.

To the extent that its due. But beyond that, seriously, why should the $100,000 a year guy have to buy the insurance for the $40,000 a year guy who refuses to get it? We're not talking about the poor here, they are covered by subsidies.

[RC]

71. What about the $20,000 a year single mom who can't afford it?

[flyarm]

82. can any of you Obama people read or comprehend ? it is based on income..or lack there of ..

the poor would get it all but free.

please do some research..you Obama people are making fools of yourselves.

fly

[RC]

120. Long story short - GET THE INSURANCE COMPANIES out of the health care

decisions! Nothing short of that will work. Neither Hillary nor Obama's plans do that.

[lvx35]

84. We provide subsidies to those who can't afford it. But seriously, look at what you're asking me.

We're talking about a single mom who can't afford health insurance. The simple fact is that she needs it, there is no moral alternative. We're talking abot a scenario where her kid grows up without a mom because she couldn't afford to go in to have and have that lump in breast checked out. That's simply intolerable no matter what.

[BlackVelvet04]

134. See below.....

Medicaid and SCHIP safety net strengthened “for the most vulnerable populations” to plug gaps, such as lack of coverage for poor, childless adults.

Remember as a parent Obama's plan would mandate you carry insurance on your children.

[rodeodance]

6. "Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse t

By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer 51 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to have workers' wages garnisheed if they refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.
ADVERTISEMENT

The New York senator has criticized presidential rival Barack Obama for pushing a health plan that would not require universal coverage. Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed during a television interview, she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."

Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. Under her plan, she said, health care "will be affordable for everyone" because she would limit premium payments "to a low percent of your income."

[Cleita]

42. "Means testing" is the word you should be afraid of.

That means some bureacrat will come and decide according to some outdated formula what you can afford and what you can't afford. So if you fall into a category of being above the means in salary or assets, you will not get government assistance, yet you will be required to pay for said insurance or have your wages and/or assets garnished even if you can't afford to eat or put gas in your car to go to work. It's really an evil way to do business.

Pandering to the Republicans is not compromise, it rolling over and letting them scratch your belly when you beg on cue.

[rodeodance]

55. The do you job

and get on the b. tails.

[CTyankee]

89. But taxes are roughly based on the same method. And you pay those taxes.

If you don't, you get your wages garneshed.

Obviously, the question you raised is really tax fairness. If we cannot do better than the Republicans on that then we shouldn't be in existence as a party.

All of the Dems health care plans are premised on fairer taxation than we have now. But one way or the other there will have to be some sort of "means test." Who is doing the testing is key. We have a fairer shot if we have a Dem doing it, don't you agree?

[Cleita]

97. What is wrong with taxing the entities proportionately who might

benefit from a healthy population. It seems to me that would be business and corporations as they would benefit from a healthy workforce. It would also benefit them because Medicare for all would cost less than what health insurance group plans cost today because of the efficiency in administrative costs as Medicare is not run for profit.

Right now we deduct FICA from peoples wages that covers SS and Medicare. If we lifted the cap on the individual deduction on income taxes it would bring in all revenues that rich people don't pay over $96,000 a year for SS and Medicare. If we added an employer tax on a percentage of gross profits to be put into Medicare for all instead of matching funds like we do today, it would probably be less than most corporations and unions pay for health care and it wouldn't put an undue burden on mom and pop operations but they and their employees would have the same coverage as the big corporations. It works in Canada. Why not us?

Mr. Bigfatcat, CEO would pay more, but little children, the elderly and those unable to work wouldn't pay into but receive it. Mostly, it would be paid by the people between school and retirement who would pay for it from a percentage of their income and that would include the rich heir, who lives off a trust fund and isn't working.

It doesn't force means testing as it only takes a percentage of what is earned and if you don't earn, like if you are a child, retired or homeless, you still have access to health care and this is a benefit to all society. Treating all diseases and health problems prevents them from spreading and it will help people to get back to work who can't work because they are untreated. However, forcing individuals to buy health insurance and pay the full premium that the insurer arbitrarily demans is plainly wrong.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

9. Well since we already pay $8000 per capita, raising taxes might not even be necessary.

I want our country to go to single payer and be done with it. No more insurance companies. The gambling industry does not belong in healthcare.

[lvx35]

18. I agree, that's why I back Hillary's plan.

You can choose for profit gambling insurance companies, or you can choose government health care, single payer style. Hillary's bet is that people will choose the government care (which isn't just out for profit) which puts us on the road to single payer if enough people do it. Of course republicans, who believe the private care is better, can choose their plans rather than talking about "socialized medicine".

[mrreowwr_kittty]

27. Either plan has to get through Congress first.

You can bet the farm that the first thing to go during deliberations will be the government competing with the private plans. The insurance lobby will simply never let that happen. What will happen is that the mandate will stay because the insurance companies love that aspect of it. The government plan will be a catch-all for the poor and uninsurable. Everyone else will have to buy private insurance. Mark my words, that is what will happen.

[lvx35]

32. We need the power of Hillbama here.

I agree with Hillary's critique of Obama that without biting the bullet and setting out to achieve Universal health care, the plan will be nibbled to death. But I also agree with Barack's statement that it should be an open process, so the people can see the insurance companies trying to screw them on TV. What I really wish we had here was somebody offering both these tactics at one, I really think it would be a winner.

[CTyankee]

90. If we let that happen, then shame on us as Democrats.

There has to be a massive public education campaign about this but I think it can be done. People can't be viable in this country with the health care situation we're in right now.

Another thing: we gotta get a bigger majority in the House and Senate. The more seats we pick up down ballot in 08 the better our chances of getting a decent system up and going.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

92. If people are educated they will want single payer

The insurance companies are not about to let that happen.

[CTyankee]

98. Then they are out of the business of health care. It's that simple.

If they are in competition with the single payer system, people will choose the single payer system because the private plans will be unaffordable for them. And the Republicans can't complain: their precious "market" will have decided.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

101. I see what you are saying but the insurance lobby is not going to let it get to that point

Electing a Dem majority will have little effect. Just as many of our reps are in their pockets as Republicans.

[CTyankee]

107. So no matter what we as Democrats and citizens do, it won't change?

Maybe we should all just stop being active in the Democratic Party and let the chips fall where they may...

[Cleita]

45. Not only that the $8,000 comes from employers as well, which

is one reason many business are moving their factories to Canada and other countries that do have national health care. The expense that they pay for this is small compared to insuring union as well as non-union workers here.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

70. I didn't think the figure included employer contributions.

I just googled it and the figures are ranging from 6 to 8K but all are saying it's US government spending.

[Cleita]

75. It does. Employers are required to match FICA deductions

if that's what you are talking about.

[Jed Dilligan]

124. Unless it comes with cutting some of the waste in Defense,

it's not exactly a progressive tax.

[Bread and Circus]

5. Hillary Care - Part Deux. Didn't she fuck it all up for us once already?

[rodeodance]

8. I think lots of the "f**" came from the hard core Repugs. you knew that of course.

[Cleita]

13. No it didn't.

It was a Democratic majority Congress then. Both sides of the aisle saw how byzantinely bizarre and overbloated the bill was and they scrapped it because it was unworkable.

[rodeodance]

31. Some of it. But 'socialized medicine" was the term tossed by the RW--.

[Cleita]

38. It's a social program and of course the RW like to toss out

buzz words without qualifying them. We have been so brainwashed to think of socialism as soviet style totalitariansim that we can't think passed the words and of course the RW used this against us.

[rodeodance]

44. I fully agree with that point.

[Bread and Circus]

62. not according the The Nation.... you know, that liberal rag.

[Cleita]

10. She did and she will again.n/t

[Cleita]

7. It won't stop there either because the Republicans will love this

plan to fill the profits of the health care industries and therefore their stock portfolios. They will soon move on to peoples savings and other assets when they don't have wages to garnish anymore.

[rodeodance]

15. How Bushie/Rovian/cheney like!!---Instilling the fear factor!! bravo bravo!

[Cleita]

22. Grow up!

Bush and Rove would say that Obama is coming to take your health care. Be afraid!

What you should be afraid of is not looking at the facts. Anyone who has had to deal with government help out programs that are means tested know what I am talking about.

Medicaid a means tested program for the poor requires that you are only allowed certain levels of savings and salary before you can qualify. If you go over that you lose Medicaid or your assets. Single payer covers everyone without means testing. All you pay is the percentage of your salary that goes for FICA.

This hodgpodge olio of health care programs that you can or cannot afford and may have to beg for money to afford, or you will be in violation of the law, is means testing on a grand scale. That means you may never be able to accumulate assets if you need health care. When you do need health care and you will down the line and can't pay the premium anymore either from illness, loss of job or illness in the family, they come after your assets first until you don't have anything and then you might get a very small bare minium type of health care for yourself and your family.

[rodeodance]

29. I have read her plan and thought about it. I am grown up.

[Cleita]

50. Here's more reading.

Here's Conyer's plan which is the one we need to get either Clinton or Obama to pass should they become President.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_cong_bills&docid=f:h676ih.txt.pdf

And here's a website you should spend reading all of it because it has the most comprehensive facts and figures about this anywhere. However, starting with the latest press releases is a good place to start.

http://www.pnhp.org/

[rodeodance]

60. Conyers is not a candidate. Who ever wins--it will be a compromise as to the

outcome--the final bill.

Conyers and others will have their chance at that time.

[Cleita]

64. Conyers is the head of the committee that will put this plan

forward. He is very important in this.

[rodeodance]

72. Then it seems he will have the upper hand.

[Cleita]

77. Not if his bill passes both houses and the President

vetoes it. It happened in California. Shiela Khuels bill, HR 840 was passed by both houses of our Assembly and Arnold after voters had voted for it. Arnold vetoed it and proposed a plan that's almost identical to Hillary's, which thank God the Assembly rejected.

[rodeodance]

78. oh--true. anything is possible.

[BootinUp]

12. And Obama's wont? How will he mandate the childrens insurance?

This is such a dishonest spin against Hillary. Like Obamas doesn't have the same fucking thing just done halfway.

[FormerDittoHead]

19. Oh. Obama's mandates are optional.

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

46. HA--good one--says it all.

[MediaBabe]

118. Obama's plan dumps enforcement onto the schools

Fines for the parents who don't insure their children. Let the schools sort them out. Another unfunded federal mandate to suck up school money but since the media is keeping it's eyes closed no one hears about what Obama is actually saying.

“I would sign them up in school in the same way they would get inoculated. I would fine parents if form some reason they refused. I am happy to be very clear on how we would enforce the mandate,” Obama said. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/11/28/48504...

[BootinUp]

14. IN THE GE WE WILL SUDDENLY BE INFORMED Obamas has the same thing. nt

[Alexander]

24. Absurd speculation. Obama's plan doesn't mandate coverage.

Typing in ALL CAPS doesn't make your point any better.

[BootinUp]

28. That is incorrect. He mandates coverage on Children.

Typing in all caps is something I rarely use except when people are looking past the truth.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

35. You are required to support your children. The law mandates that you feed them too.

You don't have to feed yourself.

[BootinUp]

37. There is currently no mandate to have health insurance for children

Please stop spreading disinformation.

[rodeodance]

48. Precisely--that is why states have had the kids SHIP plan--even the the Repugs cut down on and that

still does NOT cover all kids.

Horrible to see in a USA.

[Alexander]

47. At least he won't garnish their wages.

Typing in all caps makes you look obnoxious, no matter who you are.

If the shoe fits...

[rodeodance]

51. Read the article in full--it is reserved for those who refuse coverage--employer

or government.

[BootinUp]

69. He will just hand out that mandated coverage for free then?

He is being dishonest about the fact his plan has the a similar provision to Hillary's. Mandated coverage for Children and people will have to pay up for it based on ther ability. Similar to Hillarys mandate.

[BlackVelvet04]

135. He advocates levying fines.....

in which case you pay money for the fine but you are STILL without insurance.

[rodeodance]

154. yes, Obama said there would be fines for parents who refuse to buy into kids

health insurance.

he said nothing about what would happen after the fine. kids still without health insurance=go figure!

[rodeodance]

57. And Clinton wants health care for mom's and dad's to care for the kids--if they

are sick they will not be able to care for them.

[BlackVelvet04]

136. What I find interesting is that

Obama is against mandates for all because he believes people will buy health care insurance if it's affordable Evidently his opinion of parents isn't very high since he mandates they have insurance. I guess his belief system only stretches so far.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

33. Might be a dig at me. I had to throw some caps at this poster to make a point earlier.

These mandate supporters seem to think that explaining the rationale for them over and over will convince us it's not the most blatantly stupid act of political suicide the Dems could be doing right now.

[CTyankee]

91. I think Obama will "see the light" eventually and that's OK. If it insulates him from

incoming bombs from Republicans about "garnishments" and such in the GE, then "sees" how it has to be after he is elected president, well, fine. I think that can work out pretty well, actually, to elect a Democrat.

[annie1]

153. It doesn't take a hard stand on healthcare, what are they gonna find out?

[loveangelc]

16. the truth comes out

[OzarkDem]

17. Bush taps into my paycheck for the Iraq War

I'd much rather have a payroll deduction to pay for health insurance than to have none at all, which is where we will end up under Obama's plan.

[FormerDittoHead]

25. ..and did you know there are private corporations profiting from it??? How do I opt out of THAT? n/t

I was referring to the war...

[CTyankee]

100. You work for a candidate who will change that. You vote. n/t

[suston96]

21. "...she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible......

......including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment." may be more precisely what she said. A link to the transcript would be better.

"Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. Under her plan, she said, health care "will be affordable for everyone" because she would limit premium payments "to a low percent of your income."

Why cannot people here be honest enough to use actual quotes instead of making up what they wanted her to say to benefit their candidate.

Al Gore never said he "invented the internet" but his opponents in the media reconstructed his actual words to make it sound like he said he "invented the internet". And he paid the price.

[Cleita]

34. It all boils down to "means testing" a Republican concept.

Ask anyone who has had to collect welfare, get food stamps and get Medicaid out of desperation what means testing is all about. I know people, one who is a DUer, who once had it all, good and glamourous jobs, rich husbands and money, who is now scraping by on SS, a part time job and a Medicare/Medicade health plan. She has had to spend all her assets down to $2,000 she is allowed to have in a savings account so she can have health care, which all of us elderly need no matter how spry we are. If we had had single payer universal health care, she might have been able to hang on to her assets to derive some income and not have to go to work every day at the age of seventy-five, a task that is so daunting for her at times that when she is done after four or five hours of work she can't move from the pain.

[CTyankee]

94. I would hope this poor lady could look for help from social agencies that

help the poor, aged and infirm. Depending on what state she lives in, she might qualify for assisted living housing. My brother would have qualified at one point at the age of 67 but he was too sick and had to remain in a nursing home. His care was paid for by Medicaid. And this was in Texas, for god's sake!

[Cleita]

103. This is another big myth that there are all these programs,

agencies and charities out there to help people. The agencies have been broken by Reaganomics and Bush. They are underfunded, inadequate and have waiting lists a mile long. None of them can address the real needs out there. If they could, you would not see homeless or old people and poor people without jobs relying handouts for food. Waiting lists and means testing are causing these problems because they have been broken and what's left has not been updated and are working with guidelines that were adequate in 1980 but not today. Charities are often only specific for certain needy types and can't take care of everyone.

[CTyankee]

106. Well, I am only telling you my family's experience in Texas, within the past 4 years.

You can't get much redder a state than Texas and yet this help for my brother was available.

[Cleita]

108. I'm happy for your brother, but by and large it isn't there.

If you don't believe me, go adopt a homeless person for a month and try to help them. I did and it cost me $5,000 that I really don't have because of the inadequate and byzantine system we have. In the end I couldn't help her in the long run because of it and because of the underlying mental illness evident. She really needed adequate health care for that to be taken care of, not the dehumanizing system we have now for poor people, but real mental health care like Britney Spears is probably getting and that we don't have to help these people. It really opened my eyes to the system and all these "wonderful" programs out there.

[CTyankee]

110. My husband coordinates programs for the homeless for the city of New Haven.

The hardest cases are those people whose drug/alcohol dependency is as bad as it gets and the mental health issues you indicate. There are people who get on their feet and get out of the shelters but it is not easy for them. Not at all. I have worked all my life in the nonprofit world also so I have seen the problems upfront. I don't mean to argue with you about how bad the situation is for those at the bottom. But depending on where you live there are programs that can work, whether they are in literacy, life skills, job skill training or detox programs.

You are right about the effect of federal (non)program funding. I know, I raised money for many years for local and state agencies and that included going after grants that were available. But this is why we are here. We are Democrats. We are the ones who will make a difference.

If we can't do that, maybe we should just quit and go home...

[Cleita]

112. If we keep getting our leaders preselected for us then we

just might as well quit and go home. I am that close to it because I feel like I'm not making any progress while I try to swim upstream.

[CTyankee]

114. Well, we have our work cut out for us, don't we? In the meantime,

we have an election and a choice between a Republican and a Democrat. Or stay home. My choice is to vote for the Democrat because I think any Democrat is better than any Republican.

[Cleita]

116. I will of course do that, but the real work is going to push our

elected leaders to do the right thing for the people, which means, we the people, are going to have to figure out how to become more powerful than the corporations who are forcing their choices upon us now. I frankly am too old. How are we going to get the young people to see the truth of how our government is being coopted and get them to fight for their future?

[CTyankee]

119. I agree. I'm too old myself so I hear you. good luck! n/t

[Alexander]

67. If someone refuses to buy health care they can live with the consequences.

They don't need their wages garnished. This quote will torpedo her candidacy if she's the nominee, and it's a bad idea to boot.

[BlackVelvet04]

139. that's an extremely immature response....

you suggest we just let them die in the streets maybe? How the hell do you think any government health care plan is going to work? You think it's free? It's going to cost one way or another.

[Alexander]

23. Yeah, let's garnish the wages of those who can't afford it!

What a great idea!

:eyes:

[BootinUp]

30. Post number 6 refutes that clearly.

[AZBlue]

43. No it doesn't.

How is she deciding who can afford what? By income?

Well, I can tell you my income is decent - I'm sure she'd look at my income and say I can afford to pay for insurance. But my bills are literally higher than my income, so I can't afford one more bill. (and by bills I don't mean frivolous things like credit cards - I mean electricity, car payment, required car insurance, rent, water, food, gas - you know, the essentials)

[BootinUp]

66. I don't think

you have anything to worry about. There are millions and millions of peopl in your situation and her plan has taken people like you into consideration and planned for it.

[CTyankee]

104. If your bills are higher than your income you have two choices:

increase your income or decrease your spending. I was once in that position and I decided I had to do both. I set out to learn everything I could about an aspect of my work that would pay better. I was in the nonprofit sector and figured that if I could learn all the ropes about fundraising I could get a better paying job. I was right. I also found more affordable housing. And I did a detailed budget for myself. Since I was a single parent of two teenaged girls, it was a daunting task. But I did it somehow. I don't know any other way...

[AZBlue]

125. I'm looking for ways increase income.

There's really no way to decrease my expenses more than I already have. No cable here, no eating out, buying groceries on sale with coupons, no "luxury" purchases like books or clothing anymore, etc. I started tracking every penny I spend last year - it was an eye-opener! I highly recommend that for everyone, whether or not money is tight.

I'm looking for a second job. Unfortunately retail isn't hiring p/t people for nights and weekends since sales are so low. I'm trying to find a transcription job, but those are disappearing too. I work on commission and of course that's going down with slower sales. I'm hoping to sell off some furniture within the next week or two, that might help a litle. Looking hard for a full time job that pays better - I've got a good resume and am hopeful about that (plus my company's not reliable with the paycheck, so that alone will help!). And, I'd like to move someplace that might be a little cheaper but I wanted to wait for the new job so I'm not on the opposite side of the world from it and wind up actually paying more in gas.

Thank you so much for the advice and kind words!! It sucks, huh, LOL.
:hug:

[CTyankee]

127. Could you concentrate on companies that at least pay health insurance?

You could look at what jobs they have and tweak your resume to fit the job, if it looks doable. Always look for jobs in the departments that make money, not the areas that cost money (HR is one, for instance). You might try the nonprofit sector with your sales experience. Some of them look for people with that experience because they have lots of folks who have no idea what the business world does! If there is an organization or institution that does something that you admire or are just interested in, you might look deeper to see if they have any opportunities. Reach out to people in your church or other network you have. Think of everybody knowing somebody and you can imagine new possibilities. Make at least one call to a contact each day.

This will be a big job. Almost like a full time job. Your job will be to sell yourself. It's hard because you have to put on that face of total confidence at a time when you are unsure if you have it!

I wish you the best! Good luck and take care...

[suston96]

49. You didn't read what she said:

"Clinton said such measures would apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it, which puts undue pressure on hospitals and emergency rooms. With her proposals for subsidies, she said, "it will be affordable for everyone."

But I can understand. If you cannot find anything to support your candidate make something up....or rearrange the opponents words to suit yourself.

[Alexander]

93. Hillary's position is pure political suicide.

The dumbest move since Walter Mondale, who promised to raise taxes.

[Cha]

26. hilary can leave her damn fingers

off my wages. gawd she's dense.

[flyarm]

76. well those with no insurance are garnishing my health care..is that better?

do you even understand how insurance works?? we all have caps you know and each uninsured person that goes to a hospital is being charged to my insurance and my cap..do you understand that or even care..is your mommy an daddy still paying for your insurance?? if not then you should damn well understand this..and Obama's plan does not cover adults..

and those adults are bleeding my insurance cap dry!

i am losing patients with those here that are so ignorant of what the system is now and what obama is propasing..what obama is proposing is not universal health care..can any of you find the capability to inform yourself or do some research and educate yourself to health insurance?

fly

[Cha]

83. I don't need to know how insurance works..I don't want my

wages messed with by hilary's insurance scams. End of story.

[flyarm]

88. and i am sick and tired of having my insurance gouged by those who either can't pay or won't

pay for their own insurance..i am carrying them on my back!

or out of my lifelong caps!!

oh at a tune of $2,000. bucks a month..and our employer is paying 2/3rds!!

fly

[flyarm]

95. your wages are already messed with because of health insurance in this country right now!!

i just had surgery 2 weeks ago..hospital bill out patient surgery $1,700.00..charge for uninsured people added on $2,500.00..total hospital bill...$4,200.00

all taken from my lifelong insurance cap of $1million dollars..

$2,500 subtracted from my lifelong cap for people with no insurance..it is costing me and you and anyone with insurance dearly!!

what do you think it is free for others to not have insurance?

what world are you living in??

nothing is free in life..nothing..

and you are paying in many other ways..

jobs that have left this country because our companies can not compete with the rest of the world's working force because they have national health insurance.

if you have a HMO they have negotiated a fee to go to hospitals for indigent people

cost of all of our products are higher because they have to be, to pay the high price of health insurance

Lower income by many to keep corporate health insurance..many unions have to negotiate down salaries to keep health insurance for their employees


you are only playing the fool if you think you are not already paying for health care and that it is not coming out of your check!

fly

[CTyankee]

109. Great post, fly! Right to the heart of the matter.

And why, I wonder, do people object to having health care? Especially if it is affordable? Why is it regarded as an "extra" and "evil"? :shrug:

[Garbo 2004]

126. You don't pay in to support medicare? Another gov't "insurance scam?" n/t

[BlackVelvet04]

141. Typical immature child....

waaaaah. How the hell do you think single payer health insurance would be paid for? TAXES TAKEN OUT OF YOUR PAYCHECK. Grow up or go away and let the adults have a discussion.

[sfam]

36. Hillary said this on ABC's THIS Week this morning

George S. had to press her 3 TIMES before she would actually answer the question. Finally she did, and admitted yes, there would be penalties for those who don't go with the program.

Why not just be honest about this stuff, Hillary? Do people really have to pin you to the wall 3 times before you will answer?

[rodeodance]

53. Whereas for Obama--we never get an answer--just glitter.

[BootinUp]

87. So Honesty is your policy, does that go for how Obama will enforce his mandate?

Will be be fines and wage garnishing?

[DB1]

39. What she should have said, but is not smart enough apparently, is...

we are currently burdening the taxpayer enough, I am sure we could find enough money in the current defense budget to pay for this, because after all if we are not all healthy what is the point in national defense?

[Cleita]

54. Also, she should have said that

"Healthcare is considered a human right in all other industrial countries of the world and should be here in the most powerful nation on the earth. Therefore it's not a commodity to be traded on the stock market but a sacred trust for the people to be managed by their government."

[DB1]

59. Exactly. I agree whole heartedly.

[CTyankee]

111. wait a minute, tho. How does that make it any fairer that the rest of us

are paying for the health care that the slacker doesn't? And why won't we all just be slackers, too, if we can "find the money in the defense budget"?

[BlackVelvet04]

142. So just lie about it.....

that would be great for a democrat to do, advocating cutting defense right off the bat.

[Barack_America]

40. "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."-WTF??

Did she actually say "going after people's wages"?

"Going after"?

Oh Hillary, are you trying to drive the independents away? That has to be one of the most foolish things she has ever said. There are better ways to phrase that, such as, "requesting that people set aside a certain amount of money for their healthcare".

But, "going after people's wages"? I can almost hear the cash registers in the Midwest ringing up the frantic ammunition purchases.

Shit.

[BringBigDogBack]

41. Ooopsie.

[smoogatz]

52. Just send everybody a freaking card.

Those who can afford it pay a premium on a sliding scale, right out of their paycheck--just like FICA. The insurance companies can offer fancy, high-end coverage for those who can afford it, but everybody gets basic coverage, including preventive care, through the universal program. There's nothing to do, no plans to choose from, no fucked up complicated bullshit. The odds of this actually happening, of course, are about 1 in 30 gazillion.

[Cleita]

56. Dontcha know "it's complicated" or so says Hillary.

Actually, there is nothing complicated about doing the right thing in a fiscally responsible way and throwing profits at Wall Street via the taxpayer is not fiscally responsible IMHO.

[smoogatz]

61. Single payer universal would be a huge boon to Wall Street.

The current mess amounts to a gigantic tax on corporations, and is a huge drag on big manufacturers like GM, etc. No need to throw any further bones, IMO.

[Cleita]

73. It would help their bottom lines and the manufacturers who would

benefit are on board that something has to be done. Elsewhere you have the huge for profit health insurance, HMO and PHARMA industries who reap mega-profits from sick and old people. These are the guys who have huge lobbies in Washington and PR people on Madison avenue who try to keep the status quo going and their profits on Wall Street going. These are the people who have made huge campaign contributions to the leading two candidates. It makes you wonder how the selection process came about before the majority of the country even had a chance to cast a ballot.

[BlackVelvet04]

144. Yeah, the stocks of insurance companies would sky rocket...

:eyes:

[smoogatz]

157. There are other industries on the planet, and most of them have to provide

healthcare benefits to their employees, which come straight off the bottom line. Sure the insurance companies will fight it, but that's no reason not to do it and do it right. Single payer's the only way.

[Evergreen Emerald]

58. Obama said the same thing in the debate about his plan.

People are amazing. They will listen to the media hype and spin themselves into a frenzy--I have watched it on DU this morning.

Distortion / twist / lies / spin /

It is a shame our citizens are not smarter.

[caligirl]

79. If you say"going After people's wages" it has a connotation that is

perceived negatively by most anyone. Though she probably meant to say it would just be taken out in your paycheck tax withholdings she was careless here and it will bite her on Tuesday. its already the number one story at yahoo news. anytime anyone says they will 'go after you or your wages' it sounds threatening in tone. I'm sure that isn't what she wanted to do, but it is the louder of the message and too late to stop it.

This is another reason Hillary is not Bill. Bill would not have made this mistake.This was unintentional and sloppy. Bill may say the wrong things like in South Carolina, but he wouldn't ham fist this remark.

[BootinUp]

81. Which debate was it do you remember?

I will try to find the transcript.

[rodeodance]

151. It is beyond the pale how that one sentence has been twisted--more

hate has been the outcome--at least on this board.

[flyarm]

65. how many times are you obama people going to post this propaganda?

honestly...this is how many posts of this bullshit??"


oh and do you think you should get what insurance for say..nothing??????????/

well many do on the backs of those of us who do have health insurance as we are being basically garnished by those who don't have health care..may i suggest you do some research and find out how much those of us who have insurance are being charged for those that don't and that you do a little math and figure out how much those who have it are already being garnished or gouged for those that don't'


nothing in life is free ..not even health care.,.no matter how much you propagandize it..

'
and i sure as hell hope you Obama kids, who seem to know very little about the costs of health care, do a little research on how Obama operates..he does alot of promising and little in delivering...


and ps..i am a Edwards supporter..all i can say is keep up the bullshit..you are doing little to nothing for your candidate, by continuing falsehoods ..and propaganda.

oh and if you live near Illinois ..you better hope you can get Edwards plan or the person who copied his plan Hillary's plans..you are going to need it!!


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22971762/
Nuclear leaks, response tested Obama in Senate
His legislation is re-made after objections from industry, regulators
By Mike McIntire

updated 12:37 a.m. ET, Sun., Feb. 3, 2008
When residents in Illinois voiced outrage two years ago upon learning that the Exelon Corporation had not disclosed radioactive leaks at one of its nuclear plants, the state’s freshman senator, Barack Obama, took up their cause.

Mr. Obama scolded Exelon and federal regulators for inaction and introduced a bill to require all plant owners to notify state and local authorities immediately of even small leaks. He has boasted of it on the campaign trail, telling a crowd in Iowa in December that it was “the only nuclear legislation that I’ve passed.”


snip:
A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks.

Those revisions propelled the bill through a crucial committee. But, contrary to Mr. Obama’s comments in Iowa, it ultimately died amid parliamentary wrangling in the full Senate.



snips:

Another Obama donor, John W. Rowe, chairman of Exelon, is also chairman of the Nuclear Energy Institute, the nuclear power industry’s lobbying group, based in Washington. Exelon’s support for Mr. Obama far exceeds its support for any other presidential candidate.


Since 2003, executives and employees of Exelon, which is based in Illinois, have contributed at least $227,000 to Mr. Obama’s campaigns for the United States Senate and for president. Two top Exelon officials, Frank M. Clark, executive vice president, and John W. Rogers Jr., a director, are among his largest fund-raisers.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

80. Hey I can do a post in really giant letters about Bill Clinton's little Borat problem too.

But since this thread is not about that I'll just tell you that I call bullshit on your characterization of the uninsured as deadbeats.

Take that RW canard elsewhere, please.

[BlackVelvet04]

145. Good thing Bill isn't running, isn't it? n/t

[caligirl]

68. Its not what you say- its how you say it, she just pushed peoples hot button here.

If she had said something like pretax witholdings in your pay check(but the repugs would say its taxes when it isn't).

[Cleita]

74. Wow that sounds like Republican doublespeak in itself.

"Pretax withholdings"? No it's simply garnishment. At least she was honest in her word use.

[caligirl]

85. Yes, if she used your words repugs would jump on it,. But she used a term

dems will jump on before Tuesday and see as threatening, 'going after' her words not mine. She was careless in her choice of words and she should have been better able to answer this question in some fashion using words without a high negative tone.Its up to her( the professional) not me to find the right words.

[Cleita]

86. News flash!

Hillary often suffers from "foot in mouth" disease, which makes her an easy target for her enemies. I noticed that Obama is quicker on his feet in avoiding the same verbal outtages.

[usregimechange]

99. She just lost the election

[gulliver]

105. Obama plan lets deadbeats garnishee your wages.

You folks are so myopic. Obama said he would impose a penalty on deadbeats who didn't buy into his healthcare plan by making them pay "back premiums" if the decide against health care insurance but end up in the emergency room. And where do you suppose the back premiums are going to come from?

[CTyankee]

113. I don't think it'll get that far. Obama will see the light before anything like that happens.

He is just keeping his powder dry and he's wise to do so. Look at what just happened to HRC. I think he saw that one coming...

[jasmine621]

121. So how do workers pay for Social Security and Medicare now? nt

[CTyankee]

122. You are so right! What is wrong with everybody? n/t

[GoldieAZ49]

128. Hillary MANDATES - Obama prices it so that you want it voluntarily

that is the difference between the two of them, Hillary demands, Obama attracts

[BlackVelvet04]

137. Unless you have children......

then it's mandated. I guess he doesn't think parents will buy it if it's affordable. Doesn't say much for his belief that if it's affordable everyone will buy it.....everyone but parents?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

129. The word is "garnish". The past tense is "garnished".

What about the long term unemployed, overeducated and over 40 people? There are tons of us.

[BootinUp]

133. in the movie Fletch

Chevy Chase uses the word garnisheed IIRC. Perhaps that was the inspiration.

[rodeodance]

140. "apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it," Clinton's words.

same AP article. Context is important

[usregimechange]

143. By what criteria? Does she say?

[BlackVelvet04]

147. No.....

that would be worked out in the Congress, as will all of it.

[rodeodance]

150. ha ha--i just posted that--but it is true. also: What criteria will Obama use to cut of 15 million

people?

[BlackVelvet04]

155. we're going to start looking like a tag-team.....

;-)

Can you explain this one to me?

1. Obama says he believes that if insurance is affordable people will buy it. No mandates required.

2. He requires mandates for parents to buy children insurance.

What's he saying? Are parents less responsible than non-parents? He really doesn't believe if it's affordable people will buy it but he doesn't care if they don't have children?

Aren't 1 and 2 above contradictory?

[rodeodance]

156. I think 1 and 2 are contradictory in and of themselves. Good political move

to mandate kids health coverage. i will call it a mandate when a fine is attached (still unclear if get coverage).

"He really doesn't believe if it's affordable people will buy it" well=
Look at the board today--seems to be a lot who do not want to be told what to do! i do not know what the stats are regarding this.


"but he doesn't care if they don't have children?"--seems not.

that is the best i can do at this point.
best.

[rodeodance]

149. THOSE criteria will be worked out in Congress--as will any new plan.

[cloudythescribbler]

152. Another reason Obama is CLEARLY the stronger candidate for GE

[NashVegas]

158. My Middle Class Paycheck Is ALREADY GARNISHED for Health Insurance

As are most people who aren't fortunate enough to work for the few employers who cover 100% of their employees health insurance fees.