Who will tell Hillary?

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

Even before Sen. Barack Obama won his ninth straight contest against Sen. Hillary Clinton, in Wisconsin last Tuesday, wise old heads in the Democratic Party were asking this question: Who will tell her that it's over, that she cannot win the presidential nomination and that the sooner she leaves the race, the more it will improve the party's chances of defeating Sen. John McCain in November?

In an ideal though unattainable world, Clinton would have dropped out when it became clear even before Wisconsin that she could not be nominated. The nightmare scenario was that she would win in Wisconsin, claiming a "comeback" that would propel her to narrow victories in Texas and Ohio on March 4. That still would not have cut her a path to the nomination. But telling her then to end her candidacy and avoiding a bloody battle stretching to the party's national convention in Denver might not have been achievable.

The Democratic dilemma recalls the Republican problem, in a much different context, 34 years ago, when GOP graybeards asked: "Who will bell the cat?" -- or, go to Richard Nixon and inform him that he had lost his support in the party and must resign the presidency. Sen. Barry Goldwater successfully performed that mission in 1974, but there is no Goldwater facsimile in today's Democratic Party (except for Sen. Ted Kennedy, who could not do it because he has endorsed Obama).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/24/AR2008022401666.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

[thereismore]

1. Gore can do it. Edwards can. nt

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

12. Maybe Mario Cuomo?

[lapfog_1]

21. Gore cannot do it... he and the Clintons have never reconnected.

However, there is the rumored "Gang of Five" (Gore, Pelosi, Reid, Edwards, and X).

Those five (I don't know the fifth one) are rumored to be the "referees" of the Democratic Party, to set rules by which the FL and MI delegations can be seated or not, to wield influence over the Super Delegates and prevent the winner of the pledged delegates from losing, and to inform one candide that the time to fold up the tent has arrived.

It's only a rumor... and since the rumor floated, there have been denials.

But it may explain why Edwards hasn't endorsed anyone.

[Jennifer C]

38. Biden I think

is part of the rumored "Gang of Five".

[Trajan]

2. Bill will tell her ....

or ... she will tell Bill ....

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

5. Heh

More seriously, maybe Jimmy Carter?

[Radical Activist]

3. This race ended on the day of the Patomac primaries.

No way was she going to win a state bordering Illinois. There's nothing she can do now but drag it out and make herself look worse.

[rwenos]

4. Big Al

The only possible individual for this task is Al Gore. Only Mr. Gore can look Hillary in the eye and tell her he knows what it feels like to HAVE IT, then get screwed out of it.

There's literally no one else.

[Rosemary2205]

20. screwed?

OK, tell I'm knee jerking here and you aren't claiming Obama has done a GWB........

[rwenos]

26. No GWB Here

I don't think Hillary has been screwed out of the nomination. I think she's lost it. I meant only that it's the best way for Big Al to put it to her -- that he sympathizes, that she fought the good fight, that the important thing is beating the Pubs, not Hillary's self-promotion.

God forbid I should imply Obama or the Party has screwed Hillary out of anything. If anything, she's gotten a pass on a lot.

[Rosemary2205]

27. Thanks

I was nervous there for a minute! :)

I do agree with you on Al.........

[tritsofme]

6. I believe I just saw an article here by William Kristol roundly criticized, but I guess Novak

is a-ok in Obamaland.

[AX10]

10. Obamanation has it's own set of rules.

[FrenchieCat]

17. William Kristol, signer and card carrying member of PNAC?

Wow......guess he should be the one to tell Hillary......again, maybe with another letter, hey?

[Trajan]

19. I chastised the Kristol poster

I didnt realize this was a Novak piece ....

Nevertheless: The basic premise is sound ... Hillary is not doing well, and the momentum is going against her ... In the end: ONE of them will drop out ... It isnt unreasonable at this time to forecast it will be Hillary who bows out ...

[Warren Stupidity]

42. Good point. I didn't realize this was Novak. The OP should make

that clear. Novak is a lying piece of shit. A war criminal and a treasonous bastard too. On the other hand this particular quoted excerpt actually makes sense, unlike the Kristol piece which was simply a regurgitation of the idiotic flag lapel attack on Obama. Clinton is done and the sooner she withdraws the better.

[Yael]

7. I think plenty have told her. The question is who will she listen to.

[grantcart]

8. Sen Schumer gets this one

[Rosemary2205]

9. I kindof disagree

A couple weeks ago I COMPLETELY disagreed. I think a horse race to the finish line CAN be good for the Democrats because it pulls more media focus toward the Dems. And the more time spent on Democrats, the less time there is for big Mac. It would be nice if that airtime was spent with clips of 2 strong candidates simply pushing for their version of implementing progressive ideals. After the last week of only the tit for tat part hitting the airwaves, I'm beginning to change my mind. I'm beginning to realize if the tit for tat continues much longer, we may go into the general with Americans thinking only of Democrats as whiney children.

[Scurrilous]

11. Send Bill...

...but first remove all the table lamps from the room.

[MADem]

16. Yeah, because women are just so...VOLATILE...

And you are a sexist ass.

[AX10]

24. The left has proven to be as bad as the right.

[MADem]

33. Worse, sadly--because "better" is expected of our team. NT

[AX10]

58. True.

[DJ13]

13. I believe that soon there will be quiet advice given to her by Gore (and maybe Carter)

Maybe even before March 4th if her poll #'s deteriorate further, and should she decide to ignore the advice those same upper echelon Democrats will publicly endorse Obama to force her to withdraw.

[BenDavid]

14. Lets say that hrc wins 13 of the next 16 states. Now who would

you then say had the mo going into the convention? Well of course if it was hrc then she would and should be the nominee because she stopped obama. Maybe it will and maybe it want but it sure as hell would scare the chit out of you obama folks.....

[AX10]

22. It would scare them

And then they will claim racism and claim that Hillary is "losing it".
Obama and company have taken right from the Rove playbook.

[Rosemary2205]

29. HOPE..............DREAM

see, it's for everyone! :)

Heh

[OHdem10]

15. Watch the Cockiness--The word is going around--Obama's

cockiness is not pleasing.

Wise Heads on TV today say "If Hilary pulls a win in OHio and
Tx, she is in the game.

Interesting comment: The Republican Governor of S.C. With all
Obama's charm, he cannot win South Carolina in the GE.There is
no way he can get the numbers required to win.

You can win a lot of states in the Primary --"that don"t count"
because they cannot be in a General Election.

Pundits have said this earlier on many stations.

[lapfog_1]

32. First, is either Hillary or Obama going to lose NY and CA in the

general?

Do you think either will win Florida in the general?

Second, if Hillary "pulls a win" in Ohio and Texas, it will matter a lot as to the nature of her wins. If she wins 65 - 35 or 60 - 40, then she can be expected to make up ground in the pledged delegate count... but she will need other wins (even if narrower) from those "insignificant states" to get close to a tie by convention time. If, on the other hand, she wins 51-49 or even 55 - 45, it won't help her get that close.

[MADem]

34. This isn't hurting, either--it's helping a LOT...!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm8-GlTqfJo

[Arugula Latte]

45. Two things:

* It's interesting you mentioned cockiness, because arrogance and a sense of entitlement are part of the reason Hillary is in the predicament she's in now. She told Katie Couric "I WILL be the nominee."

* South Carolina? We're not exactly relying on South Carolina to go blue. Hillary certainly couldn't win there -- she'd get slaughtered.

[sandnsea]

18. I nominate John Kerry!!!

He can tell her that when you don't play by the rules and work hard enough, you end up in Iraq! Buh bye Hil!

[99th_Monkey]

23. Some have already tried, but she not listened.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4751082&mesg_id=4751082

[NastyRiffraff]

25. I'm really sick of using right wing columnists as experts.

I said it on the Kristol post, even though he criticized Obama. I'm saying it here. These people should not influence the Democratic primaries, period.

I don't CARE what Novak thinks. Kristol, either.

[TwilightGardener]

28. I am praying for decisive victories in TX and OH for Obama. Make it a "clean kill", merciful--

and hopefully she'll concede the next day, and we'll have our nominee at last.

[Voice for Peace]

30. Chelsea needs to tell her.

Seriously, she might be the only one.

[Metric System]

31. I'm going to love the Obamaniacs' reactions when they start reading Novak's columns once Obama gets

the nomination.

[Bongo Prophet]

41. "I'm going to LOVE IT when Obama gets knocked down" - seen a LOT of these type posts lateley.

There sure is a lot of glee that Hillary supporters are showing, to see a fellow dem get some sort of imagined "comeuppance"...
Is that a punishment for being....uppity?
It comes from a dark place, and I don't think all Clinton supporters are like this, by any means.

One even said "whipped like a dog" - and they say Obama supporters are nasty, claiming victimhood - Seems more like Ron Paul or freeper types to me....

I'll be making my choice soon, by March 4, and the way the two campaigns have carried themselves has been quite revealing, regardless of their respective supporters, much less the "supporters".

[Metric System]

57. Are you insane? And to imply there's some sort of racist intent in my post?!? My point is that Obama

supporters are taking such glee in reading Novak's column bashing Hillary, seemingly unaware of the fact that he will be doing these hit pieces on Obama once he gets the nomination. In other words, Novak is no friend to any Dems so I find it amusing that his rants are fine and worthy of posting on DU when they're about Hillary but I'm sure Obama supporters will be pissed when the tables are turned (and they will be).

[Bongo Prophet]

60. Question my sanity, that will help. I agree that Novak is an ass. I DON'T find it amusing at all.

If you want to find it so amusing that SOME supporters are hypocrites, then fine.
I find it troubling and sad, because I value integrity and even handedness..
If you knew my history here, you would know that I don't like DUers using right wing sources for ANY candidate bashing.

I also have seen an increasing amount of "I can't WAIT to see Obama get knocked down" type posts lately, as I stated.
Finding enjoyment or humor in dems fighting each other doesn't seem very honorable to me.

Sorry if my frustration at that attitude was taken to mean that you personally wanted him beaten like a dog, I apologize, as this was not my intent.
My frustration at a trend should not demean any one person, or any supporters as a group, and that is what I meant by the quotes in "supporters" - I think there are freepers playing games to make Obama AND Clinton supporters fight each other.

Naturally, they would take right wing sources and use them as wedges.

So we agree on using right wing sources being stupid, I just don't find it enjoyable in any way.

[MADem]

59. Way to miss the poster's point.

It's the old Mote/Beam in the eye routine that is the point, not "glee." But the Obama crew doesn't see their own shoddy behavior for what it is, and then turn round and accuse others of the very same thing.

If you are basing your choice entirely on what you see here (and that's probably not a good idea anywyay), the Obama Crew Insulting Clinton Supporters outnumber their opposites substantially.

[Bongo Prophet]

61. Hi MADem, I think I do get the point. I was responding to the poster's "amusement" over this.

Maybe you find it amusing, too.
I DO NOT.

I get the mote/beam argument, and have said as much many times over this campaign.
Throwing right wing stories around is bad for the party, and lowers the discourse.

Of course I am not basing my choice entirely on what I see here. We have had discussions before, and apparently the respect I have for you is not returned.
It is like you never have read a word I have said in years. that is kinda sad, too.

You want to count "Obama crew" vs "Clinton supporters" - but I just know that there are some on each side, and there are some who are not real supporters at all, but playing us for fools. So, I can't know for sure what people's real agendas are, and neither can you.

Therefore, I do try to always make a distinction between the subset of assholes in each camp, and the freepers playing games in each camp.
You do seem to be getting more wrapped up in labeling all of one camp, because "they have more" - and I have a different, and I think, more nuanced, view.

My only option is to call out bad behavior regardless of side.
I do not find happiness or humor in it, and think that those who find this funny may want to think again.
I want whoever is our nom to win this November.
That will require some party unity.

So go ahead and insult me, if you wish.
I am having to rethink what I considered years of interaction as having any real meaning at all.
I have enjoyed your posts for a long time, and expected more from you.
No, I don't find that funny at all.

[MADem]

62. It isn't amusement, I don't think. There is plainly a "poetic justice" aspect about it.

Novak is an ass, except when he says things that appeal to one camp.

Then his words have weight. It's a disingenuous assertion, and it isn't terribly funny, it is rather sad that one crew would stretch so far as to use that kind of 'crap' as a weapon to bludgeon the other crew.

I'm not insulting you. I am simply pointing out the reality of what I am seeing here, and I certainly do not wish you, or anyone for that matter, ill.

[Bongo Prophet]

63. We agree that Navak is an ass. We agree that some take RW talking points when advatageous to them.

I get that.

When i respond to someone who will"LOVE" it, and point out that I am troubled by posters who are "amused" - actual quotes - then you say it is not amusement, but just poetic justice. I also get poetic justice. But those were the actual words.

I take your word that you are not amused by it. I have known you to be an honest broker, and in our discussions I had hoped you would have gotten the same from me. I am naive that way.


You responded "way to miss the point" as if I were responding to some Novak story, or agreed with it - but I was only reacting to one of several recent posts on the them of "loving the comeuppance" of the candidate himself, and his supporters. I was not missing the point, but making another point. That point being, in short, that I find the gamesmanship about it to be harmful. To me it is an indicator of hardening hearts caused by the infighting.


Finally, I get the fact that the escalation of name calling and tit for tat attacks has degraded the DU community to the point that it is doing damage to people's ethics, and to our ability to have real discussions at all. The fact that some are enjoying the idea that Obama will face "justice" - after decrying the INjustice of years of abuse of the Clinton's, whom I have joined in defending all through that time - is outright hypocrisy.

And I do not enjoy it one bit.

Glad to hear you do not wish me ill, and neither do I wish that of you.
See, that should go without saying, shouldn't it?
DU used to be a safe haven, not a mosh pit.
My hope is that we can pull together behind our candidate this November.:hi:

-

[tinrobot]

35. Nobody has to tell her.

She's certainly seen the election results and the polls.

If a miracle doesn't happen for her on March 4th, I imagine she'll do the right thing and drop out.

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

37. I hope you're right

[ekwhite]

36. I'm an Obama supporter

But linking to a Robert Novak article is just lame. I don't think anyone will have to tell Hillary. She is a bright woman who can see the handwriting on the wall. If she doesn't win on March 4th, she will withdraw gracefully.

[jgraz]

39. Please don't post Novak's filth on this site

Admittedly, this may be one of his "stopped clock" moments, but please make your arguments without giving that traitorous old vampire more airtime.

[closeupready]

56. Thank you. Surely there are better sources to support the opening poster's point.

n/t

[rontun]

40. I don't think Hillary needs anyone to tell her when to drop out

First, I want to acknowledge that I'm a strong supporter of Barack Obama having been convinced that he represents the best opportunity for affecting the change we so desperately need in Washington.

Yet, I do not believe Hillary should drop out of the race at this point in time, and indeed, I believe she has an obligation to remain a candidate until it becomes statistically impossible for her to win the nomination.

I say this out of respect to her supporters who have contributed so much energy, money and effort to her campaign. Campaigns are as much about supporters as they are about candidates, Hillary would be doing a disservice to her advocates should she not fight to the bitter end.

However, should she lose Texas and/or Ohio, she'd also lose any chance of securing enough delegates to win the nomination, and at that point should gracefully withdraw. And contrary to what many people seem to think, I don't believe Hillary would try to destroy the party's chances in November out of bitterness.

[Avalux]

43. She has to be told? I would hope she has the good judgment to know when....oh wait....

Hillary has exhibited poor judgment over the years so why should this be any different? She's an embarrassment. The Democratic Party shouldn't have to do an 'intervention'.

[TexasObserver]

44. It will take an A&E intervention. Gore, Pelosi, Biden, Richardson, Schumer, Edwards.

"Hillary, we love you, but we can't stand to see you destroy yourself and your political family any more."

[Medusa]

46. She's the girl in the bubble

Personally I've had enough of presidents who live in a bubble. I'd like someone to deal with the real world. Hillary ain't that candidate when her own campaign is afraid to be frank and honest with her. It does not bode well for a possible presidency.

[psychopomp]

47. How about an intervention?

You know, get all of the above in a room and bring Sen. Clinton in, unaware of the gathering waiting to meet her.
:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :hurts: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[greguganus]

48. Yeah...Bill could tell her she has a huge corporate contributor...

...waiting for her in a hotel suite and then when she gets there they can lock the door and stand around her and clap clap point point and sing Carole King's "It's Too Late Baby", then cry and hug and give her a sedative and whisk her back to New York.

[psychopomp]

50. Too mean...

...and too funny! :toast:

[babylonsister]

49. Reminds me of 'who will tell the dimson about Katrina'. Is she so

unapproachable that she can't be talked to? She's not stupid, so she's got to know she has a problem. Maybe someone should tape a DVD for her to watch. :eyes:

[Blue_Roses]

51. I wouldn't want to be in that room...

:scared:

[Independent-Voter]

52. The voters are. She's getting her ass handed to her in each state. Can't say I'm not enjoying it.

[ecstatic]

53. Bill aka the very same guy who destroyed her campaign nt

[Stephanie]

54. I'LL TELL HER!

Somebody give me her cell number, I'll tell her right now!

[greguganus]

55. By cell phone?

Chicken! :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: