If you were defending a rapist, would you suggest that the 12 year old wanted to be raped

[Quixote1818]

Poll question: If you were defending a rapist, would you suggest that the 12 year old wanted to be raped

to get your client off or to help him get a lesser sentence?


I am not saying this is right or wrong morally or legally. I am just asking for peoples opinions.

From the Newsday article:

Rodham, records show, questioned the sixth grader's honesty and claimed she had made false accusations in the past. She implied that the girl often fantasized and sought out "older men" like Taylor, according to a July 1975 affidavit signed "Hillary D. Rodham" in compact cursive.

"It's not true, I never sought out older men - I was raped," the woman said in an interview in the fall. Newsday is withholding her name as the victim of a sex crime.

Link: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-usark245589997feb24,0,2670956.story

[JVS]

1. According to some people here, it would be my ethical duty to do so.

[JI7]

2. the person had not been convicted of rape so it's wrong to refer to them as rapist

and say she was defending a rapist.

this isn't something to go after her on.

[jgraz]

5. Review the case. He had already admitted to raping her.

Hillary was trying to get him a reduced sentence.

[JI7]

7. ok, i didn't really read any of it

i will read up on it later to learn more about it. but i guess it's not what i thought it was.

[sandnsea]

14. Statutory rape?

I don't know, I'm asking. I don't think it's always clear, especially in cases so old.

[LisaL]

29. This is like a game of broken telephone.

Maybe the article is very confusing, but Hillary's client did not admit to rape.

[jgraz]

42. OK, I'll be over in the corner shutting up now

:dunce:

Thanks for the correction.

[DemBones DemBones]

41. No, he never admitted anything. You may be

confused because the 15 yr. old boy admitted having sex with her.

Hillary Rodham prepared a defense for the client she was assigned, a client she didn't want, but he got off easy without a trial because the girl and her mother pushed for a quick plea deal so the girl wouldn't have to testify in court.

Read the article and you'll see I'm right about this.

[Obamaman2008]

6. Seriously, if he wasn't a rapist, then why was she attacking the girls character?

[Quixote1818]

15. She was 12 years old. Isn't that stachatory rape?

I guess it depends on how old the man was.

[MadBadger]

I'd do whatever is the best strategy to get my client acquitted.

[Obamaman2008]

8. Who would that help your client? Seriously, claiming she wanted to be raped

didn't mean anything, because she is 12, and that would still make him a rapist.

[Hippo_Tron]

17. Was she a public defender in this case?

If so then I agree. If not, then I'd question whether I could sleep at night defending such a person in the first place.

[MadBadger]

20. I believe she was.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

21. Was a PD. Assigned the case.

[FormerDittoHead]

3. Geeze. I remember people saying that HILLARY would be divisive...

..but you take it to a whole new level...

[Colobo]

4. I would never be a lawyer.

[krispos42]

9. Can you "want" to be raped?

How is that possible? Either you want sex or you don't, and if you get it when you don't want to it's rape.

Color me confused.

[Lautremont]

23. Of course you can.

There are people who want to be mistreated in all sorts of ways, for all sorts of reasons.

[krispos42]

25. *scratches head*

Do you mean role-playing? Fantasies? That sort of thing?

[Lautremont]

28. I'm talking about emotionally damaged people,

but there would certainly also be people whose sexual fantasies might include being raped, just as there are those whose sexual fantasies include committing it. (Though it seems to me that there's very little that you might call sexual about the basic act of rape, beyond the obvious.)

[sandnsea]

10. If I had corroborating evidence

And we don't know that Hillary didn't. I am sorry, the world is not all one way or the other. I've known some sexually molested girls to do some pretty strange things. If you don't have some basis to make a claim like that, it's presenting lies to the court which is illegal.

[yurbud]

11. false accusations is a legit line, but it doesn't matter whether or not she ''wanted it''

under-age children cannot legally consent.

The only reason to do the ''she wanted it'' defense is if you secretly want your client to be convicted.

[Occam Bandage]

12. I would do whatever I believed would be in my client's best interest.

[dorktv]

13. Depends greatly on the case facts, the circumstances and so on.

[uppityperson]

16. I went through a contested custody after divorce legal thing once.

I hired a decent lawyer, decent ethics, worked on ACLU stuff, was a very very very good person. My ex hired a mud-slinging sleazy weasely nasty ass go for the throat, win at all costs, keep the other side busy defending your outrageous accusations lawyer, the kind that makes bad lawyer jokes look tame. Oh yes, my ex's first lawyer, an ethical person, advised to drop the case, that the outcome would be very negative if continued. My ex chose to hire the nasty lawyer, with a bad outcome.

I ended up spending a shitload of money. No, make that several loads. My ex ended up losing custody of our child. Child ended up in therapy, fortunately after several yrs has mostly recovered but still doesn't want much to do with ex, a lot because of the attitude which was involved in hiring the nasty ass/etc lawyer.

So, being an ethical person, I don't think I would. But that's just me.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. If youre 'just asking for peoples opinions' then why the push poll?

As you know, your explanatory quote doesn't say "that the 12 year old wanted to be raped"

So you're just contemptible.

And not real honest.

Welcome to the ignore list.

[Quixote1818]

26. How is it a push poll?

I don't see any other way to word it.

Quote:
Rodham, records show, questioned the sixth grader's honesty and claimed she had made false accusations in the past. She implied that the girl often fantasized and sought out "older men" like Taylor, according to a July 1975 affidavit signed "Hillary D. Rodham" in compact cursive.

How else could that be worded? :shrug:

[FlyingSquirrel]

19. Other: If I were a lawyer, I'd probably kill myself

At least I would if I either had the choice of defending scum or pushin up the daisies.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. She was a public defender and it was her obligation to act in the interest of her client...

Individual rights in democracy, like the right to a fair trial, come at a cost. While I think the cost is worth it, it is still unfortunate.

[Obamaman2008]

32. How does a consenting 12 year old, help her clients case, it is still

rape, it is still illegal, and makes the jury still want to lock him up even longer for wanting to blame the little girl.

[Quixote1818]

34. No kidding. nt

[Hippo_Tron]

35. In an ideal world you would be correct...

But juries vote based on the supposed "charter" of both the accused and the victim just as much as they vote on what is actually the law. The perception that she tempted him into having sex with her versus the perception that he tied her down and had sex with her makes all of the difference in the world. Juries aren't made up of lawyers and so their decisions are easily swayed based upon these things regardless of whether or not the law says otherwise.

[Quixote1818]

37. Good points. nt

[Hippo_Tron]

38. Thank-you, I mean I'm not glad she did it and I'm sure she isn't either

But because she was obligated to act in the best interest of her client she was obligated to do so. The right to a fair trial and the right to an attorney come with a cost and that cost is that even the most vile members of society get protected. I think Ben Franklin had something to say about those who can't stomach that.

[MrSlayer]

24. I don't know if I'd go so far as to suggest they wanted to be raped.

But, as the guy's lawyer you'd have to try and at least get something to suggest it wasn't forced. I couldn't be a criminal lawyer, having to do such things would just turn my stomach. I'd end up like Al Pacino's character in "And Justice for All".

[Zhade]

27. No, it's pretty indefensible.

Get it?

Seriously. It's reprehensible.

[Kitty Herder]

30. I don't think such a defense is ever acceptable, no matter the age of the victim, but especially

for a 12-year-old victim.

It takes back to the days when it was believed that rape-victims were believed to be asking for it by wearing certain clothes, leaving the house alone, hanging out with the wrong crowd, or whatever.

If I were a judge, I wouldn't allow such arguments.

[boppers]

31. want != to having it happen. n/t

[Johnny__Motown]

33. Other... I would not defend someone accused of raping a 12 year old girl

[Raejeanowl]

36. How Many Of These Cases Are In Obama's Past?

How many defenses of unsavory clients and causes that we here could endlessly pick apart and ascribe to his character rather than see as a professional curiousity? Better watch out when you're going down this road; you're opening doors.

[DemBones DemBones]

39. Why not tell what else the alleged victim said?

"I have to understand that she was representing Taylor," she said when interviewed in prison last fall. "I'm sure Hillary was just doing her job."

She did not know all these years who his lawyer was, meaning she hadn't connected the lawyer she saw in court in 1975, Ms. Rodham, with Hillary Rodham Clinton until recently, perhaps when Newsday tracked her down.

More quotes from the article:

"Hillary told me she didn't want to take that case, she made that very clear," recalls prosecutor Gibson, who phoned her with the judge's order.

"I didn't feel comfortable taking on such a client, but Mahlon gently reminded me that I couldn't very well refuse the judge's request," the eventual first lady writes in "Living History."

"The case, she quickly learned, was hopelessly convoluted, hinging on the accounts of three people - Taylor, the girl and a 15-year-old boy - who all had reasons to withhold details."


The 15 year-old boy and the 12 year-old girl had sex in the cab of Taylor's truck. Then the boy walked away and Taylor went back to the truck and perhaps raped the girl. He did something that caused her to scream. The case was never brought to trial because of the girl's mother and the girl herself.

"The victim says it was her mother, who had recently been abandoned by her husband, who pushed for a quick plea deal to avoid the humiliation of having her daughter testify in open court. The mother, who died several years ago, was so eager to end the ordeal she coached her daughter's statements and interrupted interviews with police, Dale Gibson recalls. "We both wanted it to be over with," the victim told Newsday. "They kept asking me the same questions over and over. I was crying all the time."

It's a sad story, but Hillary did what a Public Defender is supposed to do: prepared to defend the client assigned to her by the court, a client she didn't want to defend.

But the bottom line was that the girl's mother pushed for a plea deal for Taylor so she wouldn't be humiliated by her daughter having to testify in open court. The victim told Newsday "We both wanted it to be over with." Who knows what the girl really wanted at the time? Was she overly influenced by her mother's desire to avoid embarrassment? Would she have been better off to go ahead and testify? There's no way to know.

Whatever the case, Hillary Rodham was not responsible for the girl and her mother agreeing to a quick plea deal to get it over with.

[casus belli]

40. As an Obama supporter, I don't really see the point in this... n/t