HRC: 'I don't think there should be any do-over...Florida should be seated'

[ProgressiveEconomist]

(and net her 38 delegates and 288,000 votes in a no-campaigning-allowed name recognition farce)

From http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/03/06/exclusive-interview-clinton-looks-ahead-to-mississippi.html , three hours ago:

'On a "do-over" in Florida and Michigan, which held nominating contests that broke Democratic Party rules

I would not accept a caucus. I think that would be a great disservice to the 2 million people who turned out and voted. I think that they want their votes counted. And you know a lot of people would be disenfranchised because of the timing and whatever the particular rules were. This is really going to be a serious challenge for the Democratic Party because the voters in Michigan and Florida are the ones being hurt, and certainly with respect to Florida the Democrats were dragged into doing what they did by a Republican governor and a Republican Legislature. They didn't have any choice whatsoever. And I don't think that there should be any do-over or any kind of a second run in Florida. I think Florida should be seated.'

[LSparkle]

1. Can't resist this: "Mrs. Clinton, take a seat ... "

PLEASE.

[hueyshort]

76. She is absolutely right.

Obama was hitting FLA with commercials day and night.
The people there made their choice.
Caucuses exclude too many segments of the population.
It is time to do away with them.

[krawhitham]

99. how

Obama was hitting FLA with commercials day and night.

How is this possible when they were not allowed to campaign?

You are either wrong
it was 527s
or he should be is a shit load of trouble

[Binka]

140. Why Are You Still Here?

BTW your post is a blatant lie.

[superkia]

147. What abou the voters that didnt take off of work or lose precious...

time with their families because they knew their votes wouldn't count? When you say she is right, are you suggesting that those folks don't count? I thought Clintons argument was about people being disenfranchised, maybe its just about getting more votes recorded for her? There are three ways to do it:

1: stick to the rules and give no one an unfair advantage.

2: give the two states new primaries so everyone can vote and the people of the states choose.

3: break the rules and give one candidate an advantage while disenfranchising many.

I disagree with you and Clinton on number 3, I think that answer makes no sense at all.

[muntrv]

2. "Florida should be seated (for me, of course)."

[book_worm]

3. She thinks she can dictate terms.

I think Dean will put correct that.

[bigtree]

4. she'll have her say in this, like everyone else

deal with it.

[qazplm]

8. at the end of the day

she has two choices:

a. they wont be seated at all
b. she takes what Michigan can afford to do which is likely a caucus

that's what needs to be "dealt" with.

[RoadRage]

59. She'd actually be smart to not have them be seated at all..

Right now she sits 0 - 0 with Obama. If they run a Caucus.. she's likely to be -10 or -15 more delegates. She knows that.

She has to fight to have them seated "as is" which is completely unfair, or have a full primary - which the state does not have the time or money to do.

The only other option is a caucus, which I agree somewhat favors Obama, based on his "ground game".

So, if having them seated "as is" favors Clinton.. and having a Caucus favors Obama.. and having a primary is out of the question - then maybe it's best to not do anything. Yes, I realize that screws the VOTERS of MI and FL, but unfortunately those states made those decisions.

[dchill]

11. bigtree, why don't you...

find a real Democrat to support?

[book_worm]

14. She'll have to deal with it.

[Carolina]

94. and the party will be torn apart

meaning everyone loses. Fuck Shrillary, Sen Nelson, the FL Democratic officials and party leaders who CHOSE to break the rules!

Deal with that.

[earthlover]

15. If there is a dispute, wouldn't the convention vote on seating?

[ProgressiveEconomist]

26. On MSNBC this AM, I heard Howard Dean say that if there's inertia and no do-over,

delegates from MI and FL would face a Convention Rules Committee decision on seating.

Guess whose supporters will dominate that committee?

Dean said that MI and FL were welcome to carry out do-overs that met the standard of other jurisdictions that will be seated without Rules Committee intervention. But apparently that route to seating is not what Hillary wants.

IMO she likely wants inertia to prevail in both MI and FL, to net her 100 tainted pledged delegates and overcome Barack Obama's hard-won popular vote lead (570,000 so far -- see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4918049 ) in one fell hawklike swoop.

Apparently, Hillary does not fear the Party-splitting pandemonium that would ensue and likely ensure a McCain victory in November.

[dchill]

35. I don't believe that even seating....

the delegates as is would put her ahead of Obama in the delegate count. No, she's tying to come up with some kind of fake momentum power-play to sway enough superdelegates to put her on top. I don't think it will work - but one never knows.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

40. If the convention were held tomorrow, and Hil's shills ruled to seat MI and FL,

she would fall short on delegates, but well might be brazen enough to demand she be nominated because she had more popular votes (including 328,000 from Michigan, where Obama's name was not even on the ballot! See http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/PriPresBal_final2_218616_7.pdf ).

[dchill]

47. "brazen enough..."

That would be an understatement. I believe that delegates are what the party counts to determine the nominee, but that could be just another rule that HRC thinks needs changed mid-game.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

87. Kick!

[ProgressiveEconomist]

112. Kick!

[ProgressiveEconomist]

113. Kick!

[ProgressiveEconomist]

136. Kick!

[ProgressiveEconomist]

143. Kick!

[ProgressiveEconomist]

145. Kick!

[qazplm]

5. ridiculous

if you cant play by the rules then STFU!

quit trying to cheat your way in and quit trying to use the voters as a crutch to do so.

[polichick]

6. What a self-centered person she is...

How's it up to her anyway???

[BalancedGoat]

72. It's not.

She's trying to make it an issue in the media so as to put added pressure on Dean to cave.

[dchill]

7. That is just SOOOO...

HILLARY!!!!

[C_U_L8R]

9. Hillary stinks.

Hate to say it.. she just stinks.
This is the most awful, most disingenuous, conniving crap I've ever seen,
Stink stank stunk.

[Binka]

141. A Narcissistic Cow

Totally full of SHIT & HERSELF. I fucking loathe that piece of human trash.

[Bright Eyes]

10. Of course.

If Obama won Florida, she'd be screaming to keep those delegates out

[dchill]

32. Indeed.

One could expect nothing else.

[Danger Mouse]

36. Yeah, I'm disappointed with how she's behaving.

[TheDonkey]

12. OK, Hillary.

We'll just count the big states that matter and add FL back in because you asked so nicely.

[quinnox]

13. Good

A caucus would be unacceptable, but one thing is maybe she should be flexible on a new primary. That would be fair I think, to have a new primary in Florida. I think she could win Florida again and it would mean the nomination would be hers for sure, if she wins Pennsylvania in April.

[qazplm]

16. quinticessential Hillaryesque

a caucus is unacceptable, but a primary is ok because I think she can win a primary.

If you thought she could win a caucus no doubt you'd say a caucus was just peachy.

[durrrty libby]

21. Caucasus are not democratic. Only imbeciles think they are

[qazplm]

27. I have no doubt

you've been railing against caucuses for years.

Oh wait, you just started doing it when Obama started winning them and Hillary was losing them?

[dchill]

39. You bet - durrrty libby didn't even know...

that caucuses were undemocratic until the Queen of Undemocratic told him/her so.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dchill]

48. The POINT is this...

Caucuses worked FINE until Hillary ended up losing SOME of them. My brain cells (billions of them) are fine. I'm also a Democrat, so I can't vote for Hillary, anyway.

[dchill]

37. OK. This imbecile doesn't think...

disqualified primaries are democratic, either. Especially ones where some candidates weren't even on the ballot. Hillary is running against McCain, Obama, AND the Democratic Party. Not necessarily in that order.

[earthlover]

53. caucuses are part of the Democratic Party...if you don't like them, join the Repukes

[BadgerLaw2010]

61. What do caucuses have to do with parties? Both have them.

Your post makes no sense.

[earthlover]

63. i didn't say they didn't....but if you don't like the way Democrats do things, leave already!

i am sick of the hillary cult trying to squash every rule of the democratic party. caucuses are fine. The Texas caucuses were added, by the way, as a way to democratise the process away from party bosses with the previous winner take all system. The caucuses gave the people more voice. Now we have some Hillary Cult Worshippers who got the word from their cult leader that caucuses are evil. That is so cult like.

[Apollo11]

120. Because people who want to change things are just raising false hopes?

:eyes:

[neverforget]

62. So Hillary is going to give up Nevada's delgates?

Didn't think so. Imbecile indeed.

[Colobo]

68. If she's such a good candidate, she should be winning caucuses handily,

[durrrty libby]

74. The ignorance on this board is stunning

[Mooney]

79. What a very enlightening post. n/t

[Carolina]

97. Funny the IOWA caucauses set the stage of the

presidential season and the Hillbots didn't have a problem back them when Shrillary Low Road blew a wad and LOST.

They only got their knickers in knots when she kept on losing... because SHE'S a LOSER

[The Stranger]

124. Only an imbecile would think caucuses, which constitute one person-one vote are not democratic.

It involves showing up in person and casting the vote. That is actually MORE democratic.

[earthlover]

52. typical Hillary herd reasoning...if it helps the head of the herd it is OK

I think Hillary leads a cult....

[DLnyc]

85. By what logic would a primary in Florida and the primary in Pennsyvania make

it hers? She is behind 144 pledged delegates now. If she can win both FL and PA with 60/40 margins (which is hard to do), she would get about 20% of their combined delegates. Not sure how many delegates FL would have, PA has 158, say FL has 200, 20% of (200 + 158) is about 72, not enough. Plus, Obama is likely to pick up a lot of pledged delegates in WY, NC and MS. Not sure about Indiana (close to Chicago, but Hillary supporter for governor?). Anyway, "hers for sure" doesn't seem obvious to me.

[Carolina]

96. then let Shrillary pay for it

The only FAIR thing is either:

1. they don't get seated since they broke the rules
2. they get seated half and half -- 50 for Obama and 50 for the cheating drama queen

PERIOD

[Alhena]

122. Obama will have at least 75 more pledged delegates even with a FL & MI re-vote

[redstate_democrat]

17. WHO DIED AND MADE HILLARY CLINTON

RULER OF THE WORLD? She needs to go somewhere and STFU already.

HILLARY CLINTON IS A MORAN!!!!

[Jamastiene]

91. This from a red stater?

Laughable. :rofl:

[OzarkDem]

18. Agree

It wasn't Florida Dem's fault the situation ended up this way.

[RoadRage]

60. Yeah.. and it was Obama's fault that his name hasn't been around

for the past 30 years.. so he should pay the price by being involved in an election where he had no time to campaign and get to know voters - as is evident to be the only way for him to overcome the fact that people know much less about him then they do about Clinton.

Take TX (or any state for example) of how no campaigning leaves him -20 or more in the polls.. then come election day he suddenly loses small, ties, or wins or wins BIG.

A re-do is the only fair way to do this.. or you don't seat them at all. This isn't an election based on name recognition.

[Carolina]

98. then they should have protested long before NOW

FL broke the rules and should STFU

[Muttocracy]

19. so, she's above the DNC rules or something? Dean was pretty clear on this nt

[totodeinhere]

20. If a do over would help her, then she's be for it.

But since it might help Obama, she's against it.

What a hypocrite!

[blogslut]

22. Gee Hillary, why don't you sue the DNC while you're at it?

Diminishing the states where you didn't win. Courting states that violated DNC rules. And now your people threaten to sue the Texas DP because you can't follow the two-step we've been dancing since 1972.

Why don't you just sue the Democratic National Committee? DLC Clinton v DNC. Enough with the allusions and skip to the heart of the problem. Let's do this thing.

[CoffeeCat]

23. "I don't think we should have an election...

...I want my Golden Goose and I want it nowwwwwww..."

Someone tell Veruca Salt to STFU.

[Middle finga]

24. Damn! I be glad when the Elders step in and escort her ass off the

stage, So the party can start concentrating on McCain and the republicans. We got to start focusing on the open congressional seats. We can't spend forever trying to satisfy the Clintons

[RBInMaine]

25. Do ANYTHING, say ANYTHING to try and get elected.

There was no campaign in Florida. My two-year-old could tell you this is not fair. But Team-Hillary? Just keep selling their souls to Satan to try and win an election.

[wileedog]

28. Next comes the lawsuit

After she loses WY and MI and the media stops crowing about her great "victories"

[Danger Mouse]

30. Precedents favor Dean, not Hillary...

it could go all the way to the Supreme Court.

[verges]

78. Do you

relly trust the Supremes to make a fair decision here. They want to see McCain win too.

[joshcryer]

109. There won't be any lawsuits by her campaign.

[Danger Mouse]

29. Fucking bullshit. Didn't she AGREE that to these terms and suddenly she wants to change the rules...

because it's convenient for her?
That's hypocrisy.

[Blarch]

31. She will do and say anything.

[AZBlue]

33. BULLSHIT. I will take to the streets - no one's stealing one more US election!

Sorry Hillary, your Bush-like tactics won't fucking work, we're having no more of that.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

66. You and 1000s more, chanting 'THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING'

outside the Convention in Denver, just like the crowd outside the Chicago Hilton in 1968.

If Hillary's campaign makes it to Denver, and either MI or FL don't re-do, I hope somehow Rules/Credentials proceedings are televised in their entirety. It would be like sitting in on Bush V Gore, with near-riot conditions outside.

[AZBlue]

69. See, that's what the Clinton campaign doesn't get.

The Bush Cabal has stolen elections from us for the past 7 years. We're tired of it. Her strategy is nothing new, but what is new is the feeling of the citizens of this country and their inability to tolerate this anymore. Not one more time.

[goclark]

95. Convention dates please ~I'm ordering my plane tickets

as soon as I get the word.

Taking it to the street ~ Yes.We.Will

[Sparkly]

34. Wow, it's almost like she's trying to win or something.

What is she, some politician?!? What a shock!!

[qazplm]

46. that's your response?

wow, apparently win at all costs is what its about now.

[anigbrowl]

49. Yeah, and Tonya Harding was just being a competitor

Pull the other one.

[earthlover]

55. funny thing about those who win at all costs about florida....

[Sparkly]

57. People! Show me a campaign that wouldn't "win at all costs"

and I'll show you a campaign without a chance.

ANY of them would argue for the action that gives them an advantage.

[earthlover]

64. the cost this time is costing the Democrats the election

too high a cost. For someone who doesn't give a rat's arse for the Party.

[Sparkly]

65. How is "this" costing Democrats the election?? nt

[ProgressiveEconomist]

67. IMO HRC's fearmongering negative campaigning turns OFF hundreds of

thousands of young people, independents, and prodigal Republicans Obama has been recruiting for the fall. That's what negative campaigning and bridge-burning Macchiavellian tactics do. When you have no hope of winning over many of your primary opponent's supporters to your side, the next best thing for a completely ruthless and irresponsible politician is to try to make them more apathetic and cynical about politics, so they'll stay home. But many of them who stay home from the primary because of negative campaigning will stay home for the fall General Election as well, with carry-over apathy and cynicism that will make many of them very hard to reach the next election, and the election after that.

[Sparkly]

70. Are there signs of that?

First of all, he's still the likely nominee.

Second, I don't think this is going to make his supporters stay home. (Could even fire them up more.)

Third, even if she somehow got the nomination, I don't think this will hurt her against McCain.

Fourth, if negative campaigning makes people stay home, get ready for the RNC!!

I'm not worried. I think either of them can win against McCain. It'd take a lot more than this to change that.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

73. I haven't seen analyses of exit polls before and after HRC's red phone ad and "Shame

on you, Barack Obama" rants. But there's plenty of careful political science about the effects of negative campaigning in the past. Just google "negateve campaigning" or "going negative".

You are right; of course the Republicans will spend tens of millions on negative camapigning in the fall. But Hillary's doing much of their work for them right now. Doesn't that tick you off?

[Sparkly]

75. I'm just not worried about it.

I don't believe the RNC really gains from primary wars nearly as much as people always fear.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

77. Not when Hillary repeatedly tells wide audiences McCain wd make a better Prez than Obama?

And uses outrageously undemocratic, Bush-2000-like tactics to gain political advantage?

What do you make of this op-ed piece, which IMO puts together many of the disparate pieces of political misbehavior that led many in this thread to express such outrage against Hillary:

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/059

[Carolina]

100. if you can't see the damage she's doing

then you're beyond hopeless

[earthlover]

107. What I was responding to was the "win at all costs" philosophy

Particularly the negative campaigning and machinations. They may hurt Obama but ultimately they help McCain.

[KaptBunnyPants]

93. Show me one that does and I'll show you a tyrant.

Not that you'd care.

[Laelth]

144. Gore 2000, Kerry 2004

For better or for worse, these candidates chose to concede rather than risk a Constitutional crisis. Personally, I wish they had fought.

And, if Hillary is the nominee, I hope she fights tooth and nail when the Republicans try to steal another election, but I wish she would save her scorched-earth tactics for Republicans. Obama is a Democrat and an ally.

-Laelth

[KAZ]

38. She can go fuck herself.

[Beregond2]

41. Seated

LOL! Well of course she would say that.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

42. Hillary would like the fake primary in Florida to give her a fake victory as the nominee

And she will forever be known as the candidate that got the disputed delegates from a discredited primary where everyone (INCLUDING HER) agreed in advance that they would have no effect.

If anyone else (say, Obama) had won the fake election that everyone agreed in advance would not count, she would be screaming and gnashing and finger stabbing "Shame on you, Barack Obama for trying to lie and cheat your way to victory!"

[cali]

43. tough shit hilly.

you tried to boot out howard and get your own private DNC. Reap it and eat it.

[madfloridian]

45. Sorry, lady, you forgot to tell your Florida people....

and now just think how graciously Howard Dean has offered you one. Heh heh.

About face?

[Obamaniac]

50. Well it's a do-over or nothing!

What will it be Hillary? The rules are the rules and there are three precedents favoring the DNC and Obama's position on this.

I know you weren't named one of the top fifty lawyers at one point for nothing. Figure it out sweetie.

[earthlover]

56. rules? doesn't hillary make them up as she goes?

[NC_Nurse]

51. Nobody cares what you think. Let the DNC and the states involved

decide. Sit your classless ass down and STFU.

[Cha]

54. Shut the fuck up, hilary..you're

wasted.

[EndElectoral]

58. "I would not accept a caucus"..Jesus, the arrogance...sounds like GW

[Apollo11]

126. Because many more people participate in primaries than in caucuses.

So replacing a primary with caucuses effectively excludes many folks from the process.

We should be replacing ALL caucuses with primaries. But that will have to wait for next cycle.

[madfloridian]

71. I think that is the quote Olbermann showed tonight.

She wants FL as is, and she ain't gonna get it.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

81. Yes, exactly! 7 mins into Keith's show tonight (to be replayed again on MSNBC momentarily)

I saw a direct Hillary quote on do-overs from US News and World Report and then found it online by googling, so I could post this thread.

[madfloridian]

86. Thanks.

:hi:

[QC]

80. And if Obama had won Florida...

all the Obamatologists here would be bleating that the voice of the people of Florida must be heard.

This is politics. Candidates push for what benefits them. Some of you act like this is your first time at the rodeo or something.

[joshcryer]

110. That is correct.

[snappyturtle]

128. Even if Sen. Obama had won FL he wouldn't need the votes. Sen. Clinton does need them. eom

[LittleClarkie]

82. Would she be saying that if she hadn't won? Many Floridians didn't vote knowing it didn't count.

A do over is the only fair thing at this point.

I suppose she doesn't want a do over in Michigan either, even though she was the only one on the ballot.

[fujiyama]

83. Hillary:

All your delegates are belong to us!

But this is Hillarious. This is so typical of how she's run the whole campaign....Give me my delegates! Even if she won them in an illegitimate primary.

This whole primary season has turned into a circus...

[seabeyond]

84. she is more important than the voters of florida. are they willing to sacrifice for her? n/t

[Apollo11]

118. Hillary wants their votes to count. So no sacrifice involved! n/t

[casus belli]

88. Would she be as adamant if Obama were leading there? n/t

[Jamastiene]

89. Uhm, when did Florida stop mattering at all in elections?

Regardless of the outcome, Florida's votes SHOULD be counted. :wtf: is the problem?

[KaptBunnyPants]

101. The problem is that Florida's elected state government decided not to follow the rules,

Thereby forfeiting the delegates of Florida's voters. The DNC is trying to give them a chance to have their say, but thus far they have not agreed to hold a binding primary. You can lead a Floridan politician to water, but you can't make them sane, apparently.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

103. Florida's REPUBLICAN government, led by GOP Veep front-runner Gov Crist.

One little detail I read somewhere but don't have a link for is that most major candidates tried to remove their names from the Florida Primary ballot just as they removed their names from the Michigan Primary ballot. However, so the story went, Florida's Secretary of State would not allow anyone to remove names from the ballot, even after the DNC warned no delegates would be seated from an early Florida primary.

This state action set up the tracks for a pretty sure train wreck, in my opinion.

Removing the names of all the major candidates from the ballot in a sham election would be a foolproof way to ensure a do-over. However, greedy Machiavellian Democrats who wanted tainted delegates in reserve for last minute shenanigans did not remove their names from the Michagan ballot, where such removal was permitted. See the official sample ballot at http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/PriPresBal_final2_218616_7.pdf .

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

90. Florida, always the Banana Republic - Hillary's Rules/Bush Rules

:spank:

[Laelth]

92. This can't be for real.

Even she must see how unfair that would be.

If she can't, her lust for power has risen to a very dangerous level, indeed.

This is all very sad.

:(

-Laelth


Edit-Laelth--wrong emoticon.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

102. Could hardly believe my eyes myself. HRC appears to be morphing into GW Bush,

and heading toward a Bush-V-Gore-like Rules/Credentials Committee seating decision in Denver.

Regardless what happens from here on, if Hillary continues on this path regarding do-overs, just to gain 100 tainted delegates and 616,000 tainted popular votes, millions of informed Democrats never will forget her betrayal of the basic principles of fairness.

Eletoral reform is an essential part of any Democratic President's agenda starting 2009. How could Hillary argue against Voter ID and for strict national fairness standards in statewide elections after the stuff she's pulled this year in Nevada as well as what she's advocating for Florida and Michigan?

What would Al Gore say if he were posting here tonight?

[Tom Joad]

105. Next thing you know Bill and Daddy Bush will be doing PR together.

[aquarius dawning]

117. Guess what. this in't about her, it's about her supporters. we're the ones making this happen

not her.

[Laelth]

142. Are you sure it's not the Big Dog who refuses to quit?

This Time essay suggests he's not open to the possibility of loss or admitting that he made a mistake.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1717925,00.html

Perhaps this is about the Big Dog's legacy. If Hillary loses this primary, in a way, it repudiates the entire Clinton presidency of 1993-2000.

That's the only marginally-sane theory I have that explains Hillary's refusal to recognize that she can not win.

-Laelth

[Tom Joad]

104. Clinton is an Anti-democratic bastard.

[bhikkhu]

106. One step from f* the voters, just proclaim me winner

There was no campaign, no public process, no expectation that the votes would count. Florida and Michigan were screwed, and a re-do with an actual campaign and a real ballot with a consequential vote is the best service to democracy.

That is - let the people decide who their leaders will be in a free and fair election. If Hillary or any other candidate has a problem with that they can go to hell - and certainly they don't deserve to represent anybody.

[Orsino]

108. Finally. I thought she'd consider FL/MI her secret weapons.

I had little hope she'd take the high road if pressed.

[graywarrior]

111. Well, I live in Florida and I say she's WRONG.

[stillcool]

114. Clinton's want the Supreme Court to decide...

Florida...again.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

115. Yeah right Hillary. How about the disservice to the millions who DIDN'T turn out to vote because...

they we're told their vote wouldn't count. Huh?! It's called playing by the rules Hillary, something you wouldn't know anything about.

It's not about disenfranchised voters - no, it's all about HER!

[aquarius dawning]

116. they were idiots who failed to exercise their constitutional rights and to perform their civic duty?

You can't have a do-over just because you didn't do well enough the first time around. That's not how a democracy works. And, before you go there, disenfranchising an entire fucking state is pretty incompatible with the principles of democracy too.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

129. Common, if you're told your vote won't count, how is not voting a violation of your civil duty?

[aquarius dawning]

137. Except they actually did vote and in record numbers

Furthermore, whose to say that people who would have voted for Hillary didn't show up for the same reason? As far as I can tell, Barack Obama didn't receive some kind of an unfair disadvantage here, why should he get any kind of an unfair advantage now? There are no excuses that justify a do-over in Florida. All things were equal. people came. they voted. Hillary won. End of story.

[Apollo11]

123. The level of turnout in the Florida primary was pretty high, as far as I know.

But I guess you can speculate that it might have been even higher if the primary was DNC-approved.

[aquarius dawning]

138. whose to say that Barack obama was disadvantaged anymore than hillary though?

Why should he get an advantage now when he wasn't anymore disadvantaged than Hillary by the circumstances of the election? he shouldn't. No do-over is warranted.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

139. Who do you think had better name recognition (hint: she netted 38 tainted delegates

and 288,000 more tainted popular votes)

[Moochy]

119. She disgusts me

She and Putin's successor will get along swimmingly, with their love for single candidate ballots.

[The Stranger]

121. She has gone back on her word already -- her agreement NOT to have Florida count.

This is getting worse and worse and worse.

[Apollo11]

125. Where did she give her word on that?

I understood that the candidates were asked to refrain from campaigning in Florida.

There was nothing about "I agree NOT to have Florida count." - as far as I know.

[The Stranger]

132. Come on. That's not even close. She doesn't dispute that she agreed to it.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

133. More Clintonian "parsing", as in, "it depends on what the meaning of 'IS' is"

[Exilednight]

127. What is she going to do if she were to become President.....

I know I vetoed the bill, but I'm making it a law anyway.

[Buzz Clik]

130. So... how exactly would they be seated? Only Hillary refused to take her name off the ballot in MI.

She wants all the Michigan delegates in a race that was outside the rules and where she conveniently left her name on the ballot?

Bullshit.

I tire of her manipulations.

[Zachstar]

131. Anything to win aye clinton?

Even tho such a seating will destroy the democratic party.

We are trying to be nice about the rouge state issue. One of them already is ready for a quick and cheapo caucus. FL can do the same but is using you to remain in the spotlight. However, This situation is getting beyond stupid and I am at the point of calling for the DNC to make it clear to FL that they can either revote or accept 50/50.

A revote can give the democrats a SLIGHT chance FL can turn blue come November.

[Seabiscuit]

134. She has a point about the Republican governor and legislature...

If indeed the Republican governor and legislature screwed the Dems by causing Florida to violate the rules, the DNC should give heavy weight to that and not penalize the Florida voters or the Florida Democratic Party by refusing to seat their delegates.

[GarbagemanLB]

135. Fine. Seat them 50/50. That or a re-vote.

[casus belli]

146. "I think that they want their votes counted"

What about the voters who didn't show up because they knew their vote wouldn't count, Hillary? Shouldn't they be given an opportunity to vote? Or, are you only feigning having the interests of voters at heart because this particular contest shows you ahead as-is? Are we expected to believe you would have the same position if Barack were currently ahead?